Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

55 minutes ago, Hawin Dooiey said:

Here is the few clips we filmed using my phone on Saturday. A couple of shots were unusable (I dropped a controller on the floor during one shot).

 

 

I'll be editing a much more extensive video this week of Tony's own footage he has filmed using his camcorder. I'll post that video in here when it's done.

 

 

Thanks Tom,

 

I think the 'natural' sound is really effective. I don't think DCC sound would add anything to this.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the edited footage.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[LNERandBR]

I completely agree that in the case of Little Bytham, and most likely Retford too, DCC Sound would be completely superfluous. The natural sounds of the trains are all that's needed. My main reason for this view? Steam sound decoders have a long way to go before they capture the intricate and complex sounds a real steam locomotive makes at high speed. 

 

DCC sound for steam is far better on a smaller  layout. There the sounds add to the experience though whistling when appropriate and though adding atmosphere. A country branchline station for example. 

Additionally, for a smaller layout DCC makes operating easier in that your not having to worry if a loco is isolated. You can park a loco anywhere on the layout and leave it to move another one. Granted, it's therefore far easier to forget to switch a point and run though it the wrong way!

 

For Little Bytham, you would hear the train long before you saw it and unless the run up from the fiddle was as long as the layout you wouldn't get that. Plus, I'm certain that there's no issue with wanting to leave locomotives isolated on the scenic section. Unlike a smaller layout when you can find a train is only just too long for the siding or platform you wanted to put it in.

 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by LNERandBR

[Tony Wright]

36 minutes ago, Manxcat said:

Tony, 

 

£27.50 in 1975 would be a few pence short of £222 today.

 

Archie

Remarkable,

 

Thanks Archie.

 

I haven't worked it out totally but that's around what all the bits would currently cost for a medium-sized loco kit (a DJH Pacific would be more). Of course, my Jamieson hand-cut A2/1 only included the bodywork and the frames; no wheels and motor (I even had to provide an eight-wheeled tender, since the one Jamieson supplied was the six-wheeled GS sort, as first fitted to the real A2/1s).  

 

What I found rather ironic was the fact that I'd paid for the initial cutting-out of the parts for the kit. For a few months afterwards, both EAMES and Kings Cross were offering A2/1 kits at the normal Jamieson price. It was the same with the nameplates - I paid for the artwork, then DUKE OF ROTHESAY became part of the Kings Cross range. As was the case with THE WHITE KNIGHT, GREAT NORTHERN, WOLF OF BADENOCH, CLUMBER and HUNTINGDONSHIRE, all 'plates I commissioned. 

 

They were great 'modelling' days. RTR was rubbish, both in quality and range, and, in the main if one wanted ER big locos (especially Thompsons) it was out with drawings, raw materials and scratch-building, or have the parts for a kit made for you (the generic 'you'). It was all so much more personal and creative. 

 

Of course, 60508 isn't the only A2/1 to run regularly on LB. 60510 also appeared on a running-in turn from time to time.

 

 

As it used to on Stoke Summit, all those years ago now.

 

I hope you're still happy with her.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[robertcwp]

As trailed by Tony yesterday, here is a video of Tom Wright's EM DELTIC on test on Retford:

 

https://youtu.be/JMPgxkGa9-8

[Tony Wright]

57 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Andy,

I fully agree.  By fussy do you mean that DCC objects to interruptions in the power feed?

 

I consider myself pro DCC, but I did not rush to adopt it when it first came out and I certainly didn't fall for the 'you only need two wires' hype.

   

I certainly would not install DCC on the basis of loco sound or lighting.  Neither am I a great lover of operating points and signals from a DCC hand set, give me a control panel any day. 

 

After experimenting the big sell for me is undoubtedly the improved slow speed control that DCC can deliver.  Good loco performance is the number one priority for me, particularly on an exhibition layout.    This is why I installed DCC operation in the station yard on Hungerford even though the layout is otherwise completely analogue and this si also the reason our new layout Clayton will be DCC enabled.

 

The benefits as I believe them to be are:

- The constant 15volts on the track reduces the risk of stalling at very low speeds, or of failing to start, particularly at the end of a long day's exhibiting when track and wheels are starting to dirty up.

- The stay alive facility further assists with compensating for dirty track (or plastic frogs) although I have yet to exploit this facility myself.

- As long as the CV's have been optimised for the motor a loco runs better under DCC at slow speeds than when the same loco is run under analogue (without the chip).

- Operators with a tendency to stop and start loco's too abruptly can be toned down by setting up inertia on the loco's chip.

- For the future, long goods trains on Clayton will need banking (actual not pretend) as per the prototype.  DCC will allow us to accurately pair up the train and banking locomotives so that they set off and move at the same speed. 

 

It should be recognised that a DCC fitted loco may not operate as well with the chip as without it on an analogue layout.  This is because the chip needs about 6 volts on the track before it switches on and only then will the motor start to receive current.

 

If you want to encourage visiting locomotives it is also beneficial if the layout has dual operating capability i.e. DCC and Analogue operation.  Its easy to do as long as its built in from the outset.  

 

With a large layout as Clayton will be it is essential to ensure that a short circuit on one part of the layout will not bring everything to a standstill.  A large layout can be zoned so that the short is restricted to a single zone and not allowed to impact the main command station. 

 

If you don't enjoy dabbling with electronics, nor playing on your computer, then perhaps DCC is not for you.  Many of the contributors to Wright Writes have  already demonstrated that they can achieve superb running with analogue control so it is obviously not essential.  But if you are like me and feel comfortable messing about with electrics, computers and DCC, then there is a lot of pleasure to be had from DCC with the potential benefit of the best possible control of your model locomotives that modern technology can provide.

 

Regards,

 

Frank

 

 

 

 

 

   

Sound reasoning, Frank,

 

Many thanks.

 

When you say 'built in from the outset', that's not the case with Little Bytham (can you see me installing DCC from the outset?).

 

All I've done retrospectively is to fix two wires (one each, soldered to the rails of the Up fast) to a choc--block connector underneath the lifting section. Whenever DCC running is contemplated, the digital controller is connected to the block, every necessary section switched 'on' and away they go. 

 

As long as the chip of a visiting DCC loco is not configured to not operate on DC, then those locos so-equipped will operate just fine on LB's analogue control system. Though not with the same finesse, of course. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

And here is a video of a Bachmann Director that Sandra re-gauged to EM. The motor drives both coupled axles so it runs without the coupling rods, which were not fitted for this test run. No weight has been added. What is not obvious in the video clip is that just off scene at the London end, there is a gradient where the GN line crosses above the GC fiddleyard.  The Director handled that with ease.

 

https://youtu.be/qcdVUx9yziM

[Tony Wright]

3 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

As trailed by Tony yesterday, here is a video of Tom Wright's EM DELTIC on test on Retford:

 

https://youtu.be/JMPgxkGa9-8

Amazing Robert,

 

Many thanks.

 

It almost sounds as loud as the real thing! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

And here is a video of a Bachmann Director that Sandra re-gauged to EM. The motor drives both coupled axles so it runs without the coupling rods, which were not fitted for this test run. No weight has been added. What is not obvious in the video clip is that just off scene at the London end, there is a gradient where the GN line crosses above the GC fiddleyard.  The Director handled that with ease.

 

https://youtu.be/qcdVUx9yziM

Thanks again Robert,

 

Remarkable!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Tom

 

Watching the A4 on the fast freight really shows the advantage of Tony's backscene being set away from the edge of the baseboard. As your camera moves up and down the horizon stays put but the features in front go with the camera. Much like when you walk or travel in a car. It also stays stationary even with a bit of sideways movement

 

One of the things I detest about backscenes is they move with the foreground which takes away any feeling of depth. A plain sky blue is better than many backscenes.

Many thanks Clive,

 

I hadn't considered the beneficial kinetic effect of the backscene being distant from the baseboard.

 

By the way, I hope all the wagons in the A4's fast goods train are correct. Probably not, though................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[micklner]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

When things settle down, Andy, bring your 60506 over and I'll have a look at it for you.

 

Best A1/1? Good question. As you know, mine is built from a Crownline kit (replacing a scratch-built one I made donkeys' years ago). I think it's now available from PDK, but it's basically the same.

 

I thought little of the resin boiler, and the cab needs altering slightly to give the right proportion (the horizontal handrails are too low as designed). I know Micklner doesn't think much of it, but it's the route I'd take again.

 

There's always Graeme King's resin/Hornby conversion to consider. I've seen some very good examples of that. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

PDK A1/1 not my cup of tea , main reason was the spacers were far too wide on the fold up chassis and it simply wouldnt go around curves, poor quality etches look at the valve gear , the Graeme King etches/Hornby parts are much finer nad the general shape looks far better as well. Sadly I dont think there are any other 4mm kits of GN  available? . I would be very surprised if Grame King has any kits left ?.

 

A few of my Thompsons , I like them as they are different from Gresley,  in so many ways, for all the abuse they get from some quarters. Deserved or not.

 

A1/1 PDK on left Hornby conversion on right

 

Hornby based A1/1

 

A2/2  Bachmann A2 conversions

 

 

 

A2/3  Bachmann conversions

 

 

And finally my other  Hornby conversion of the A1/1.

Edited August 24, 2020 by micklner

[Tony Wright]

7 minutes ago, micklner said:

PDK A1/1 not my cup of tea , main reason was the spacers were far too wide on the fold up chassis and it simply wouldnt go around curves. Sadly I dont think there are any other kits of GN ? I would be very surprised if Grame King has any kits left ?.

 

A few of my Thompsons , I like them as they are different from Gresley,  in so many ways, for all the abuse they get from some quarters. Deserved or not.

 

A1/1 PDK on left Hornby conversion on right

 

Hornby based A1/1

 

A2/2  Bachmann conversions

 

 

 

A2/3  Bachmann conversions

 

 

And finally Hornby conversion of A1/1

These look realy wonderful, Mick,

 

Many thanks for showing us.

 

Just a couple of points. On one of the GREAT NORTHERNs (the PDK one) has the slidebar come adrift? Its back end is almost pointing at the sky!

 

And (and, have I mentioned this before?), LORD PRESIDENT's nameplate is too far forward on the smokebox for LNER days.

 

Other than that, brilliant!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Tony Wright
typo error

[micklner]

1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

These look realy wonderful, Mick,

 

Many thanks for showing us.

 

Just a couple of points. On one of the GREAT NORTHERNs (the PDK one) has the slidebar come adrift. Its back end is almost pointing at the sky!

 

And (and, have I mentioned this before?), LORD PRESIDENT's nameplate is too far forward on the smokebox for LNER days.

 

Other than that, brilliant!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

PDK kit was sold on years ago!!. Lord President ,I will dig the books out and have a look, very easy to move if needed !! Cheers.

[Tom F]

My apologies @Tony Wright, I forgot to add the Elizabethan footage. I've re-edited it into the video, so a new link to it is here:

 

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Hawin Dooiey

[robertcwp]

I had a splendid weekend at 'Retford'. Thank you Sandra for inviting me and for your hospitality.

 

I took along some carriages that I have altered to EM. Here is a video of some of them on test:

 

https://youtu.be/85jDulrUHxE

 

They are mostly Hornby Mark 1s with Hornby wheels re-gauged to EM. The leading BSO was a temporary arrangement for coupling purposes and has Gibson wheels. One of the SKs wobbled about and, having defied initial efforts to deal with this, I put Gibson wheels in and it was fine. The five at the rear are Bachmann Thompson stock re-wheeled with Gibson wheels. I painted their roofs in Humbrol Matt 67 Tank Grey, which transforms their appearance. The carriages remained on the track and ran very freely. Five of the Mark 1s will form a Cleethorpes-Manchester London Road set after some further work and the five Thompsons will be a Cleethorpes-Sheffield train. The others are currently unallocated.

 

Sandra and I did an audit of the carriages on the GN side and worked out some potential improvements to the formations. I have three carriages for the Heart of Midlothian to sort out as a result. 

 

Tony brought along the carriages from Geoff West that he has kindly loaned to Sandra. They will form the Norseman, a King's Cross-West Riding multi-portion train and the Tees-Tyne Pullman. There are also a few yet to be allocated to trains. I believe Sandra has already begun adjusting them to EM. 

 

We managed to work out where the electromagnets for Sprat & Winkle couplings are but did not identify the problem with the signal mentioned in earlier posts. It seems it may simply be a case of switching it on, and remembering to switch it off too.

 

The time flew by and we didn't get to operate the GC side. 

 

The one down-side was that I managed to leave my toolbox there, which is a bit of a pain. . Hopefully, I shall be reunited with it at some point.

[micklner]

Whoops, nearly forgot the A2/1's

 

 

 

 

Last up Thommo !!          

 

The Duke's Tender has been adjusted since the photo.

Edited August 24, 2020 by micklner

[MJI]

2 hours ago, robertcwp said:

As trailed by Tony yesterday, here is a video of Tom Wright's EM DELTIC on test on Retford:

 

https://youtu.be/JMPgxkGa9-8

 

I could almost hear the unique sound of them

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, LNERandBR said:

I completely agree that in the case of Little Bytham, and most likely Retford too, DCC Sound would be completely superfluous. The natural sounds of the trains are all that's needed. My main reason for this view? Steam sound decoders have a long way to go before they capture the intricate and complex sounds a real steam locomotive makes at high speed. 

 

DCC sound for steam is far better on a smaller  layout. There the sounds add to the experience though whistling when appropriate and though adding atmosphere. A country branchline station for example. 

Additionally, for a smaller layout DCC makes operating easier in that your not having to worry if a loco is isolated. You can park a loco anywhere on the layout and leave it to move another one. Granted, it's therefore far easier to forget to switch a point and run though it the wrong way!

 

For Little Bytham, you would hear the train long before you saw it and unless the run up from the fiddle was as long as the layout you wouldn't get that. Plus, I'm certain that there's no issue with wanting to leave locomotives isolated on the scenic section. Unlike a smaller layout when you can find a train is only just too long for the siding or platform you wanted to put it in.

 

 

 

I think sound would add a lot to the shunting of the trip freight and a little to the stopping services, for the non stops I agree with you.

[thegreenhowards]

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

When things settle down, Andy, bring your 60506 over and I'll have a look at it for you.

 

Best A1/1? Good question. As you know, mine is built from a Crownline kit (replacing a scratch-built one I made donkeys' years ago). I think it's now available from PDK, but it's basically the same.

 

I thought little of the resin boiler, and the cab needs altering slightly to give the right proportion (the horizontal handrails are too low as designed). I know Micklner doesn't think much of it, but it's the route I'd take again.

 

There's always Graeme King's resin/Hornby conversion to consider. I've seen some very good examples of that. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Many thanks Tony, It’s so nearly there but frustratingly I can’t quite get it as smooth as I would like. It would be great to have your expert eye on it in due course. 
 

As for the A1/1, I think the GK resin approach if he has any left (Graeme are you reading this?) is probably the best bet for me. Or failing that chopping up my own from bits of RTR models.

 

Andy

 

 

[Chuffer Davies]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Sound reasoning, Frank,

 

Many thanks.

 

When you say 'built in from the outset', that's not the case with Little Bytham (can you see me installing DCC from the outset?).

 

All I've done retrospectively is to fix two wires (one each, soldered to the rails of the Up fast) to a choc--block connector underneath the lifting section. Whenever DCC running is contemplated, the digital controller is connected to the block, every necessary section switched 'on' and away they go. 

 

As long as the chip of a visiting DCC loco is not configured to not operate on DC, then those locos so-equipped will operate just fine on LB's analogue control system. Though not with the same finesse, of course. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony,

It sounds like LB does not use a single common return across all circuits.  Hungerford was initially wired with a single common return across both track and accessory (points, signals, uncoupling magnets)  circuits.  When we decided to install DCC in the goods yard the first thing we had to do was separate out the common return in the yard from the rest of the layout.  Had we not then the DCC command station would have been damaged by its interaction with the analogue power sources through the common return.  

 

Whilst this might appear to make it complicated for anyone operating the layout, my colleague Mike Evans responsible for wiring the layout, eliminated operational complexity by using the setting of the points into the yard to control whether the track feed in the yard was connected to the DCC or to the up or down main line controllers.  The system has been 100% reliable.  The DCC has been further sanitised by providing a controller with a traditional centre off knob to control speed and direction.  We therefore get the benefits of DCC with almost no additional complexity for those operators who prefer traditional analogue control systems.

 

Clayton will take the lessons learnt from Hungerford to the next level so that any part of the layout (up main, down main, station yard, or fiddle yard) can be operated under either DCC or analogue at the flick of a switch.

 

Regards,

 

Frank   

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

It also gives more drive ability through momentum and braking control.

Did that years ago with Codar and Digitol.

[thegreenhowards]

4 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Andy,

I fully agree.  By fussy do you mean that DCC objects to interruptions in the power feed?

 

 

   

Yes, although such faults are not always evident in DC. I find some locos will run pretty well on DC, but turn into stuttering wrecks on DCC. The Hornby J50 has been a particular problem for me and I've only sorted it by fitting stayalives to them. I find Stayalive one of the best features of DCC, it makes for such smooth low speed operation and I regard it as almost essential with sound as there's nothing worse than intermittent sound.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, TrevorP1 said:

 

Thank you Andy. The cream is Hy Cote Ford 'Sierra Beige' obtained from Sprayster. It looked odd when Just the cream was on the coach but with the crimson it looks well. I've never seen a real crimson and cream coach from 'back in the day' but these two colours go well on the model. They are nothing like any RTR offering from the trade - not that that means a great deal.  

 

The Red is Ford Rosso. 

I used Sahara Beige when I was in the UK. I found it a bit "creamier" than Sierra Beige.

 

Can't get any of those over here so it's all academic now.

[thegreenhowards]

1 minute ago, St Enodoc said:

I used Sahara Beige when I was in the UK. I found it a bit "creamier" than Sierra Beige.

 

Can't get any of those over here so it's all academic now.

I think that's the one I was looking for but it's been discontinued.

[sandra]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Some more Retford shots....................

 

 

My re-gauged Bachmann D11 carries on northwards.

 

Unfortunately, Rick Hunt's wonderful 'Queen's boards' bracket signal has ceased to work.................

 

 

Class A3 60042 SINGAPORE heads the Down afternoon 'Talisman'. 

 

It's shots such as this which illustrate one of Roy Jackson's blind spots. No lamps, and not even lamp brackets.

 

Do the omissions spoil the overall effect? I think so, and so easy to rectify. I'll make it one of my tasks! 

 

 

Lamps or not, it's the broad sweep of Retford which absolutely convinces.

 

A Clas 9F (complete with numberplate, but with no numbers on it - another job!) takes the Down goods avoiding line to the west of the station. Though the signal to control this move has been built, it's still to be installed. 

Tony,

Thank you for visiting yesterday and for bringing Geoff West’s stock. Can you also thank him on my behalf for loaning the stock, I’ve already converted the “Norseman” to EM gauge and tomorrow I’ll work on the “Tees Tyne Pullman”. The photographs are very good and do capture the sheer size of the layout. Also I’ve altered the incorrectly facing BR crest on the A1 60123  “H A Ivatt“, I would guess that Roy did that deliberately to see if anyone noticed, you did but I didn’t.
 

It was very kind of you to lend me the various locomotives, you’ll have to let me know if the Hunslet diesel shunter can be painted and does Tom want to finish the Deltic, for although slightly out of period it would look great if  It was completed.

 

I will have to investigate the operation of the “Queens Boards” bracket, but as you know I’ve still an enormous amount to learn about the operation of Retford’. 
 

Robert Carroll very kindly brought some coaches which he had converted to EM gauge, these ran amazingly freely and my Bachmann D11 which I’ve converted to EM but done nothing else to managed to pull 17 coaches of these coaches round the entire layout. The locomotive ran without coupling rods but the motor drives all 4 driving wheels, I do wonder if this may be the future for steam outline locomotives,

 

I hope you enjoyed your visit and I hope you can visit again soon, there is lots to do!

Sandra

[sandra]

3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

I had a splendid weekend at 'Retford'. Thank you Sandra for inviting me and for your hospitality.

 

I took along some carriages that I have altered to EM. Here is a video of some of them on test:

 

https://youtu.be/85jDulrUHxE

 

They are mostly Hornby Mark 1s with Hornby wheels re-gauged to EM. The leading BSO was a temporary arrangement for coupling purposes and has Gibson wheels. One of the SKs wobbled about and, having defied initial efforts to deal with this, I put Gibson wheels in and it was fine. The five at the rear are Bachmann Thompson stock re-wheeled with Gibson wheels. I painted their roofs in Humbrol Matt 67 Tank Grey, which transforms their appearance. The carriages remained on the track and ran very freely. Five of the Mark 1s will form a Cleethorpes-Manchester London Road set after some further work and the five Thompsons will be a Cleethorpes-Sheffield train. The others are currently unallocated.

 

Sandra and I did an audit of the carriages on the GN side and worked out some potential improvements to the formations. I have three carriages for the Heart of Midlothian to sort out as a result. 

 

Tony brought along the carriages from Geoff West that he has kindly loaned to Sandra. They will form the Norseman, a King's Cross-West Riding multi-portion train and the Tees-Tyne Pullman. There are also a few yet to be allocated to trains. I believe Sandra has already begun adjusting them to EM. 

 

We managed to work out where the electromagnets for Sprat & Winkle couplings are but did not identify the problem with the signal mentioned in earlier posts. It seems it may simply be a case of switching it on, and remembering to switch it off too.

 

The time flew by and we didn't get to operate the GC side. 

 

The one down-side was that I managed to leave my toolbox there, which is a bit of a pain. . Hopefully, I shall be reunited with it at some point.

 

 

Robert,

I’m glad you had a good weekend and thank you for bringing the coaches you converted, they ran incredibly freely. I’ve converted the “Norseman” to EM gauge and I’ve run it successfully and tomorrow I’ll work on the “Tees Tyne Pullman” I’ll also start on converting the Nucast B1 to EM gauge.

 

I’ll arrange to get the toolbox back to you as soon as I can,

 

So hope to see you soon and thanks for all the work you done on the stock for Retford.

Sandra