Wright writes.....

[w124bob]

Looking at those images I wonder if part of the issue is that the real loco has a very well filled tender, thus flattening the springs. Something that the model can not replicate unless the kit designer does the design drawings with a tender load taken into account or there are alternative flatter springs available. As for the lining tender height, I think neither photo is helpful as I can't see any ling at all on the real thing!

[Clem]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Here's a studio shot of the LRM one, painted by Ian Rathbone. It was, as you say, a 'bit of a knife and fork' job, particularly with regard to the chassis, where the coupling rods didn't match the bearings in the frames. I had to make new rods, such was the discrepancy. When I told the kit's designer (the late Malcolm Crawley) about this he bluntly told me that if I'd built it properly (with a ridiculous compensation system on the leading driven axle - it had to be installed with all the valve gear made!) it wouldn't have mattered. When I saw his, built in EM, on Retford, many years ago, it ran like a lame dog, then promptly derailed! I'm glad I didn't make mine 'properly'. 

 

This example has the same number as your O Gauge one, but with a different tender. In the prototype picture I used, the tender did not have the piercings at the front. A change of tender?

 

Good evening Tony,

As you probably know, in the 1950s, the K2s were overhauled at Cowlairs - yes even the Colwick ones like 61738. I think you might find the smokebox door handrail interesting here...

 

I think the fitter mixed it up with a NB Scott or Glen. It must have been done on the heavy/intermediate overhaul in December the previous year (1952). December 23rd 1953 Basford North. It's from Roderick Fowkes excellent book Steam in the East Midlands and Lincs. Please respect copyright rules. 61738 had a tender with hand-hole cut outs at the front until May 1955. From July 1955 until July 1959 it had a tender without hand-hole cut outs (so, with the later BR crest, applied in June 1958, your excellent model is spot on). This is an interesting shot of Basford. You can clearly see how the original main line from Colwick was slewed over to the left to allow the spur in from Bagthorpe Junction (and Nottingham Victoria) as a straight run when the Great Central was built.  For anyone who doesn't know it, the junction to the left, just beyone the platforms, was the tightly curved, steep spur up to Bulwell Common.

I've always found the K2s very handsome locomotives. I need to build at least a couple more (adds to long list of project to-dos.... ). At the moment, I'm still working on the Kirk bash D246 when I get the chance. It's going at a slow pace but very enjoyable.

[cctransuk]

45 minutes ago, Clem said:

 

 61738. I think you might find the smokebox door handrail interesting here...

 

Here's another photo of the same abberation :-

 

 

John Isherwood.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, w124bob said:

Looking at those images I wonder if part of the issue is that the real loco has a very well filled tender, thus flattening the springs. Something that the model can not replicate unless the kit designer does the design drawings with a tender load taken into account or there are alternative flatter springs available. As for the lining tender height, I think neither photo is helpful as I can't see any ling at all on the real thing!

 

http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/imagingcentre/view/536373/PL

 

Is what I was looking at. The actual loco although a few years later than the date of Little Bytham.

 

Clearly "bulled up" in 1965. Perhaps for a last run on "The Flying Scotsman".

 

No matter how heavy the tender is, the axlebox height stays the same or we really do have a problem! The load in the tender may alter the height of the top of the tender but not the distance between the lining and the top bend, or the angle of the bend. Maybe it is even a different tender. Unlike "Sir" I have no idea about which A4 had which tender at which date. 

 

I note that the real loco has polished handrails on the tender and cab side. Was that part of the special finish or normal? The photo does rather show up the over scale handrail pillars that appear on so many 4mm models.

 

Plus the cab side lining and the hole in the bottom edge of the cab side look too high up too. The hole is almost at the bottom edge of the cab side and the lining goes through it.

 

Perhaps I should stop looking before I spot anything else. I feel like I am doing a real demolition job on a nice loco. 

[Barry Ten]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

Isn't it gratifying how operating a model railway can be therapeutic? And, if it's got your enthusiasm back, then I'm delighted. 

 

 

 

I'm dealing with a particularly difficult time in my personal life due to family illness at the moment, and I can safely say I've never been more grateful for this wonderful hobby of ours as mental respite.  When I'm out running I can't shut my mind off, but give me a craft knife, some glue, some card to cut, and I'm so absorbed in it that I switch off. I'm sure I'm not alone in this. Thanks all for continued distraction and inspiration with your modelling.

 

Al

[60027Merlin]

2 hours ago, Barry O said:

I have a Wills A4... it doesn't have any of the heavyweight cladding joins like the Bachmann and Hornby bodied ones seem to have. Recent shots of A4s on LB seem to have a variety of viewable" joins . (The streamlined real ones have very little to show the cladding joins)  My question is though are the more recent  SEF castings no longer as flat as the Wills ones were?

 

 

 

Baz

 

Regarding the cladding joins, here are two shots of Mallard's in the NRM a couple of years ago. Not as neat as the r-t-r stuff!

 

 

[Barry O]

5 minutes ago, 60027Merlin said:

 

Regarding the cladding joins, here are two shots of Mallard's in the NRM a couple of years ago. Not as neat as the r-t-r stuff!

 

 

But they are really so thin as to be almost invisible in 4mm to the foot scale locos.

 

Baz

[Clearwater]

40 minutes ago, Barry O said:

But they are really so thin as to be almost invisible in 4mm to the foot scale locos.

 

Baz

Agreed however, there was a discussion a few pages back about the difference between models and reality and this is a good example.  A model will have a ruler straight line ignoring that natural variation.  Whilst it’s had to see, I think the eye does detect that the real thing isn’t exactly straight but does spot the absolute line on a model.

 

David

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

The "graphite revolution" was just that, it has completely transformed layout operation - and it's not new either, I've seen references to it in magazines from the 1930s at least.

It started for me at Scaleforum some years ago, Bernie Baker was doing an S4 demo and had one of our Ruston 88DS locos running up and down on track made from two lengths of aluminium angle. The loco was running so slowly that I had to look away and look back to confirm that it was actually moving. When I asked how this was possible the answer was "graphite".

We applied graphite (with a graphite pencil from Hobbycraft) to the Herculaneum Dock track for the Southampton show in 2016 and I've hardly cleaned any loco wheels since - I've not cleaned the track much either. Since then no locos with tender pickups have ever stalled and the tank locos very rarely - if they do they are run up and down on a stretch of freshly graphited track and they run perfectly again. On the DCC side (the dock railway) the results were even more spectacular - we have two locos on the system which were always unreliable. One is a Hornby L&Y 0-4-0ST which usually made one run out from the fiddle yard and back before needing it's wheels cleaned - since the start of the graphite era it has run continuously and still not been cleaned. The other is the Barclay 0-6-0F which caused consternation to Andy Ross working the dock when he realised he'd been shunting with it all weekend.

There was of course much speculation about a reduction in adhesion but I hink Wentworth Junction has cleared that up - there's no visible effect. I know all the down trains are banked but going the other way all the up trains have to be lifted up the same gradient out of the fiddle yard.

I've been promoting this for six years now, once I actually get someone to try it they are usually converted but as always there are lots of theoretical objections - I've said on here in other threads that I don't care how or why it works, I just know that it does.

Try it and you'll see what I mean.

Please remind me (us) Mike - how much of the track do you apply the graphite to? As I mentioned above I've only been doing a foot or so on each track at the ends of the storage loops. Thanks.

[Clem]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Here's another photo of the same abberation :-

 

 

John Isherwood.

Nice photo, John. Approaching Daybrook station, heading for Colwick. Nice interesting selection of goods vehicles there!

[PJT]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/imagingcentre/view/536373/PL

 

Is what I was looking at. The actual loco although a few years later than the date of Little Bytham.

 

Clearly "bulled up" in 1965. Perhaps for a last run on "The Flying Scotsman".

 

 

Lovely photo of my Pam's favourite loco.  Virtually all she knows about steam locos is that she cabbed Silver Fox with her Grandad, at Retford (they lived very close by the station, in Darrel Road).  Heavens, I wish I had!

 

However, it must have been taken a few years before 1965.  Silver Fox was withdrawn in 1963 and in the photo she hasn't got overhead line warning flashes which puts it back before 1961-ish, I think.

 

Pete T.

 

 

 

[Tom F]

I have a question regarding this intriguing photo.
 

I am going to be weathering Tony's Golden Age A4 of 60027 'Merlin', and have been looking for suitable photos, when I came across this one on flickr.
 

 

The amount of coal is impressive if she has done 240 miles roughly from Waverley. From my modern PTS training I've done, the engineman walking in the four foot, while the 'Elizabethan' passes by seems rather peculiar/bad practice.

Any information welcome. @Tony Wright, this is the condition/finish I will be going for.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, PJT said:

 

 

Lovely photo of my Pam's favourite loco.  Virtually all she knows about steam locos is that she cabbed Silver Fox with her Grandad, at Retford (they lived very close by the station, in Darrel Road).  Heavens, I wish I had!

 

However, it must have been taken a few years before 1965.  Silver Fox was withdrawn in 1963 and in the photo she hasn't got overhead line warning flashes which puts it back before 1961-ish, I think.

 

Pete T.

 

 

 

 

Good spot. Never trust a caption! It does prove I was telling the truth when I say my knowledge of A4s is limited.

[Barry O]

7 hours ago, Hawin Dooiey said:

I have a question regarding this intriguing photo.
 

I am going to be weathering Tony's Golden Age A4 of 60027 'Merlin', and have been looking for suitable photos, when I came across this one on flickr.
 

 

The amount of coal is impressive if she has done 240 miles roughly from Waverley. From my modern PTS training I've done, the engineman walking in the four foot, while the 'Elizabethan' passes by seems rather peculiar/bad practice.

Any information welcome. @Tony Wright, this is the condition/finish I will be going for.

Has a loco failed? Having an engineman walking along the track doesn't look right at all as you say Tom. The coal hasn't been brought forward in the tenderso difficult to see the amount used.

 

Great photo though.. it doesn't have the usual area of heavy greasy dirt around the front of the casing..in this one it is more spread out in clusters.

 

Baz

 

What it does show..or rather not show , is any large lumps on the cladding ..I take it the Golden Arrow one is similar?

[grahame]

Here's something a bit different and bright and colourful. It's a fun modelling project I've recently undertaken of 'assembling' a new Smart Models kit of 1970/80s space invader games machines. It's very straightforward - the machines are 3D printed and the decorations are waterslide transfers supplied, so not exactly any difficult assembly. My examples are N/2mm scale meaning they're very small at under half and inch tall:

 

 

 The machines had a gentle going over with a fine sanding stick, washed/scrubbed with cream cleaner using an old toothbrush, rinsed under running water, dried, glued to a thin wooden stick (cut from an old spatula) and given a dusting of grey primer:

 

 

Then a quick blast of gloss black and an attempt to add the waterslide decals, although that was pretty fiddly and tricky. They have to be accurately cut out as they are printed on white transfer paper (which would show if not trimmed right up to the printed colour shape edge) and some of them are absolutely tiny. And the photographic enlargement (below) is very cruel in showing how dodgy my cutting out and sticking has been, although they'll only be seen through a shop/arcade window:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

A little query Tony.

 

On the real A4, the tender wheels were a bigger diameter than the rear truck wheels, but on the model, the tender axleboxes look slightly lower than the one under the cab and indeed they look lower than the axleboxes on the leading carriage.

 

Is something a bit off in the height department?

 

The tender already seems a bit high as there looks to be too much flat sheet visible between the top of the lining and the start of the bend and the tender footplate is slightly higher than the loco one.

 

If it is being offered as part of a correction of somebodies model, it ought to be right!

 

Even as a non expert on A4s, there are a number of things that Jar a little bit with me, like the too high position of the headlamps, the slab sided rather than curved under cylinder side and the wrong shape of the cab front window. the back edge of the chimney looks a bit square too. I always thought you could see a curve at the back from that angle but that may depend on the camera angle.

 

As I say, I know nothing about A4s compared to you and I may be wrong about them all but they just don't quite look right to me. 

 

 

Points taken, Tony,

 

The tender is scratch-built (or was it built and got scratched?), because there's no kit available for a 1935-streamlined corridor tender with the radiused rear. 

 

You're right, things ought to be correct, but my comments related to the lining proportions on the cab on Andy's A4, which I think are right on mine. 

 

Perhaps I should get a camera which isn't so clinical!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/imagingcentre/view/536373/PL

 

Is what I was looking at. The actual loco although a few years later than the date of Little Bytham.

 

Clearly "bulled up" in 1965. Perhaps for a last run on "The Flying Scotsman".

 

No matter how heavy the tender is, the axlebox height stays the same or we really do have a problem! The load in the tender may alter the height of the top of the tender but not the distance between the lining and the top bend, or the angle of the bend. Maybe it is even a different tender. Unlike "Sir" I have no idea about which A4 had which tender at which date. 

 

I note that the real loco has polished handrails on the tender and cab side. Was that part of the special finish or normal? The photo does rather show up the over scale handrail pillars that appear on so many 4mm models.

 

Plus the cab side lining and the hole in the bottom edge of the cab side look too high up too. The hole is almost at the bottom edge of the cab side and the lining goes through it.

 

Perhaps I should stop looking before I spot anything else. I feel like I am doing a real demolition job on a nice loco. 

Dear me, Tony, dear me!

 

Never, never believe the captions in photographs. 1965? 60017 was a heap of scrap by then! Perhaps I should scrap my model?

 

The picture you've posted cannot be any later than 1960 (no electric warning flashes). 

 

As for A4 tenders, 60017 always towed a 1935-style streamlined corridor tender. And, 60007 always towed a 1928-style corridor one, which she does to this day. 

 

The SE Finecast A4 does have 'issues' (but so do all the others). I'm happy enough with them as representations, but I'll now refrain from taking too many pictures of mine....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, Hawin Dooiey said:

I have a question regarding this intriguing photo.
 

I am going to be weathering Tony's Golden Age A4 of 60027 'Merlin', and have been looking for suitable photos, when I came across this one on flickr.
 

 

The amount of coal is impressive if she has done 240 miles roughly from Waverley. From my modern PTS training I've done, the engineman walking in the four foot, while the 'Elizabethan' passes by seems rather peculiar/bad practice.

Any information welcome. @Tony Wright, this is the condition/finish I will be going for.

The picture was probably taken in 1960, Tom, when MERLIN did 76 trips on the 'Lizzie'. The date is confirmed by he presence of a Gresley RF (third vehicle) in the formation; a replacement for the more-usual Thompson RF. It remained in the set until the train ceased to run, at the end of the summer timetable in 1962 - by then Deltic-hauled. 

 

Interestingly, the PV FK (the second vehicle) has been 'turned around'; normally the ladies' retiring room was at the south end. 

 

It's the Up train at Askham Tunnel, not far south of Retford. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

Has a loco failed? Having an engineman walking along the track doesn't look right at all as you say Tom. The coal hasn't been brought forward in the tenderso difficult to see the amount used.

 

Great photo though.. it doesn't have the usual area of heavy greasy dirt around the front of the casing..in this one it is more spread out in clusters.

 

Baz

 

What it does show..or rather not show , is any large lumps on the cladding ..I take it the Golden Arrow one is similar?

It won't be a loco failure, Baz. 'Magnificent MERLIN' fail!

 

There were many occasions when the 'Lizzie' arrived at its destination with still a load of coal left in the tender.

 

I agree, the picture doesn't show any 'lumps' on the cladding, but the cladding bands can be seen. Make them 'scale' thickness on a model, and they'd be invisible. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Michael Edge]

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Please remind me (us) Mike - how much of the track do you apply the graphite to? As I mentioned above I've only been doing a foot or so on each track at the ends of the storage loops. Thanks.

Everywhere is the simple answer.

[landscapes]

9 hours ago, Hawin Dooiey said:

I have a question regarding this intriguing photo.
 

I am going to be weathering Tony's Golden Age A4 of 60027 'Merlin', and have been looking for suitable photos, when I came across this one on flickr.
 

 

The amount of coal is impressive if she has done 240 miles roughly from Waverley. From my modern PTS training I've done, the engineman walking in the four foot, while the 'Elizabethan' passes by seems rather peculiar/bad practice.

Any information welcome. @Tony Wright, this is the condition/finish I will be going for.

Hi Tom

 

If Tony is correct even in 1960 Haymarket Still kept its A4’s that hauled the Elizabethan is very good Clean condition.

 

So weather will be to a minimum I would expect.

 

Regards

 

David

[Tom F]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

It won't be a loco failure, Baz. 'Magnificent MERLIN' fail!

 

There were many occasions when the 'Lizzie' arrived at its destination with still a load of coal left in the tender.

 

I agree, the picture doesn't show any 'lumps' on the cladding, but the cladding bands can be seen. Make them 'scale' thickness on a model, and they'd be invisible. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thanks Tony. As Merlin is Haymarket, I couldn't of imagined she had come on somewhere on route.

 

Is this photograph a good example of showing how economical the A4s were at speed regarding the coal? Any thoughts on the loco man walking in the four foot....still seems bizarre!

[Tony Wright]

 

Have we reached the 'pinnacle' in RTR offerings?

 

This is Dapol's latest 'Turbot' in O Gauge. Though I know very little about these engineers' wagons, I'm reliably informed that it is very accurate. 

 

And the price? Under £70.00 (no doubt less when discounted). 

 

Amazing!

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, Hawin Dooiey said:

 

Thanks Tony. As Merlin is Haymarket, I couldn't of imagined she had come on somewhere on route.

 

Is this photograph a good example of showing how economical the A4s were at speed regarding the coal? Any thoughts on the loco man walking in the four foot....still seems bizarre!

The A4s were extremely economical on both coal and water, Tom. And, also extremely reliable. MERLIN's 76 runs on the train is only bettered by 60012's total of 78, achieved a year or two before. 

 

From my observations, particularly with regard to 64B's A4s on the non-stop. one would see, say, MERLIN on the Up train on the Monday, the Down train on the Tuesday, the Up train on the Wednesday........................ and so on and so on............ The same locos even worked the service at weekends, though not non-stop. 

 

Anyway, here's my MERLIN working the train on which I saw her, all those years ago...........

 

 

 

 

Your weathering will bring this loco 'to life'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[ScRSG]

25 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

Everywhere is the simple answer.

 

Any links to what and where to buy the graphite?

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by ScRSG
Clarification