Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

20 minutes ago, micklner said:

Test, as seen works ok for me.

 

Thanks Mick,

 

Still doesn't work for me..................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

On one 'open day', he and I were chatting about many things, including some of the visiting locos which were being taken out of their boxes and placed on Retford. 'Do you know what this trainset is, Tony?' he asked. Other than my mentioning 'fantastic', I didn't know what to say. 'It's a loco-killer!' he said. 'Just watch'. 

 

Having operated Retford for the first time last weekend, I was very impressed by how the engines handled the trains. The GN circuit is not level - there is an incline up to the off-scene bridge over the GC fiddleyard. Long trains seemed to go up that with ease behind one of Roy's engines.

 

It's worth remembering that some RTR engines can handle sizeable trains too. The Bachmann Director that Sandra has re-gauged managed about 17 RTR carriages, which are much lighter than kit-built ones but still impressive.

[APOLLO]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I'll guess Goathland or environs.

 

Not far off. It is from the summit of the Scarborough - Whitby line at Ravenscar. We were on holiday there around 1968/9 when the line was being dismantled. Track  etc had gone, this board was found behind weeds. We transported it home with our luggage on the roof rack of dad's Austin A40 !!!!

 

Nice to have old tatty but genuine railway artifacts around your layout, though this NER board sits over a North American layout.

 

Brit15

Edited August 28, 2020 by APOLLO
typo

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, PMP said:

 

The fiddleyards GN and GC are primarily relatively simple ladder loops feeding down to the running lines. The GC yard sits inside the GN loop, with the GN crossing it via a bridge. Roy’s operating sequence was worked up from the WTT by Steve Hall, the UP and DOWN trains remaining on their respective lines, with the exception of a very few moves.

Thanks Paul,

 

I've been rummaging through my Retford pictures and found some which I took over five years ago, including several of the fiddle yard(s). 

 

When I can include pictures again, I'll show them. At the moment, Andy York (bless him) is working on solving the problem. Thankfully, it's not me!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Woodcock29]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

 

 

Doesn't happen with my NCE throttles.

 

Just sayin'.

Glad I don't have to punch in or select locos I can't see the nos of! 

[Clive Mortimore]

11 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

That's caught me out a few times as well, with my Gaugemaster controller.

 

I wonder what the point of the centre off is. I've noticed that even if the control knob is all the way to zero, there'll still be a slight hum coming from the loco, even if it's not moving. This disappears when the switch is set to the middle. Either the zero doesn't actually go all the way down to zero, or the Gaugemaster electronics are doing something intentional, perhaps to keep the motor slightly energised, and therefore less likely to stick? Or am I talking cobblers?

 

Al

Hi Al

 

I worked for Gaugemaster back in the 80s. The bloke who designed their controllers could never give a rational reason for the center off when asked, but he was very good at talking cobblers.

 

Not the best boss I ever worked for.

[Tony Wright]

21 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Al

 

I worked for Gaugemaster back in the 80s. The bloke who designed their controllers could never give a rational reason for the center off when asked, but he was very good at talking cobblers.

 

Not the best boss I ever worked for.

The Helmsman controllers used on Little Bytham have a centre-off switch, and I've always wondered why. Visitors will occasionally leave the 'boxes in that position, yet there's no need to in my opinion. I've frequently come to run something afterwards and wondered why nothing moves! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Tony Wright]

A couple more examples where I think digital 'image manipulation' is 'acceptable'..................

 

 

This is a shot as taken, complete with all the clutter of Bytham's 'home'. My eye is not drawn to the train, but to all the background elements.

 

 

I've cropped it quite extensively and taken out the background because I wanted to emphasise the receding train. Nothing else has been digitally-altered, however. 

 

 

Another example. Though I'm delighted with my 'Bytham' signal box sign (which is a full-scale facsimile, made by Ian Wilson), the northbound 'Queen of Scots' is what I wanted to concentrate on. 

 

 

So, although this shot is taken from a slightly different angle, the eye concentrates on the principal subject matter; the A1 and its train.

 

I could have digitally straightened up both the platform lamp and flower box to the left, but that would have been cheating. 

 

Thanks Andy, for getting things sorted..................

[3rd Rail Exile]

"Centre off" certainly does something internally in the controller - if I'm running a loco from "Track 1" to "Track 2", if "Track 2" isn't set to centre zero then "Track 1" has to be turned up much higher, as if current is running from the "Track 1" controller, into Track 1, then Track 2 (as they're connected by the points), then through the "Track 2" controller windings.  This is the case even if the "Track 2" controller is turned right down. 

 

I'd always assumed that "centre off" actually isolated that controller from the rails.  It's certainly of use to those of us who haven't mastered the correct use of isolation sections between circuits...

Edited August 29, 2020 by 3rd Rail Exile
to clarify my point (hopefully...)

[Tony Wright]

As previously mentioned, some shots of Retford's fiddle yards. These were taken in 2015, and more roads might have been added since then...............

 

 

The GN fiddle yard with the RH trains ready for heading south. As trains leave, they traverse a wide-radius 180 degree curve to enter the scenic section at Babworth.

 

 

The GN fiddle yard with the RH trains ready to head north. To the right can be seen the GC curve from Whisker Hill allowing eastbound trains to enter the station. 

 

 

The GC fiddle yard with the RH trains ready for heading east. They have two ways of getting on to the scenic section; either use the Whisker Hill curve to gain access to the station, or take the shorter route directly over the flat crossing. The junction for this is off to the left. 

 

Note the GN main line to the right.

 

 

The GC fiddle yard with the RH trains ready to head westwards, either to take the straight route over the crossing or use the junction (which is on the scenic section) to enter the station. 

 

Note the GN main line climbing over the GC fiddle yard, on quite a steep gradient approaching it. The GC fiddle yard also dips down in an astonishing piece of model railway engineering. The baseboard edge and electrical connections (seen through the 'hole in the sky' - to the right - in earlier pictures) are on the bridge section. 

 

 

A wide-angle view should make it all clearer. 

 

This is incredible, this is heroic. I'd even go so far as to say it required the work of a genius to conceive it, start it and work on it. Its completion will be the most-fitting tribute! 

 

Do you see now why I think Retford will be the 'greatest model railway ever'? 

[MJI]

Nice to see the fun trains as well. The visitors from Sodor and the early 80.

[t-b-g]

Next time you are there Tony, put a spirit level on the GN main line to see where the gradient starts and ends.

 

I did once and was astonished as there is virtually none, other than slight dips and bumps at joints, where timber has moved slightly.

 

Most of what looks like a gradient is an optical illusion caused by the way the GC fiddle yard slopes.

 

Trains do sometimes struggle there and I put that down to the curve and a slight hump at the joint at one end of the bridge, rather than any designed gradient.

[BMacdermott]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The Helmsman controllers used on Little Bytham have a centre-off switch, and I've always wondered why. Visitors will occasionally leave the 'boxes in that position, yet there's no need to in my opinion. I've frequently come to run something afterwards and wondered why nothing moves! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Hello Tony

 

I use Kent Panel Controls controllers (which are now made by All Components). These have a centre off switch.

 

I always move to centre when not  running anything - in essence, I am 'putting it in neutral with parking brake on' and nothing can run accidentally. If you haven't noticed a rogue loco running (perhaps an isolation switch hasn't been operated) then that loco can, for example, run up against another train or stop blocks etc and be 'under force'.

 

Brian

[BMacdermott]

Hello again Tony

 

I thought readers might like to see my controller. (I have others, so this is No.1.)

 

I have fitted self-adhesive Velcro around the outside - easier on the hand and less likely to slip out and drop.

 

The 'centre' switch has a plastic cover which - again - is easier on finger as it has a little 'give'. This is needed as I do a lot of shunting.

 

I have made an extender for the throttle from foam board. This is simply a press-fix and is held tight by the groooves. By having a greater circumference, I get finer control.

 

Brian

[Chuffer Davies]

5 hours ago, 3rd Rail Exile said:

I'd always assumed that "centre off" actually isolated that controller from the rails.  It's certainly of use to those of us who haven't mastered the correct use of isolation sections between circuits...

It does isolate the controller by disconnecting the feed into the switch from the output., unless of course the switch is faulty.

 

Frank

[robertcwp]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

The GC fiddle yard with the RH trains ready to head westwards, either to take the straight route over the crossing or use the junction (which is on the scenic section) to enter the station. 

 

Note the GN main line climbing over the GC fiddle yard, on quite a steep gradient approaching it. The GC fiddle yard also dips down in an astonishing piece of model railway engineering. The baseboard edge and electrical connections (seen through the 'hole in the sky' - to the right - in earlier pictures) are on the bridge section. 

 

Interesting to see a couple of DMUs here. They must have belonged to someone other than Roy. The one on the right that is off the rails is a Derby heavyweight (later Class 114). One of those would be right for Retford in 1957 as there were one or two DMU workings then and the early Derby lightweight units (like the one on the short siding) had all left Lincoln by June 1957.

[LNER4479]

4 hours ago, MJI said:

Nice to see the fun trains as well. The visitors from Sodor and the early 80.

 

... and not forgetting the infamous tail lamp rodent:

 

I first saw that running on High Dyke (I believe?)

[Tony Wright]

12 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Interesting to see a couple of DMUs here. They must have belonged to someone other than Roy. The one on the right that is off the rails is a Derby heavyweight (later Class 114). One of those would be right for Retford in 1957 as there were one or two DMU workings then and the early Derby lightweight units (like the one on the short siding) had all left Lincoln by June 1957.

I have no idea to whom the DMUs belong, Robert. 

 

Quite a bit on Retford was the property of others (though most was Roy's). Perhaps it might come back, on loan.

 

I hope so..............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[t-b-g]

18 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Interesting to see a couple of DMUs here. They must have belonged to someone other than Roy. The one on the right that is off the rails is a Derby heavyweight (later Class 114). One of those would be right for Retford in 1957 as there were one or two DMU workings then and the early Derby lightweight units (like the one on the short siding) had all left Lincoln by June 1957.

 

I hope my memory is right here but the Derby Lightweight was possibly Pete Hill's. The Heavyweight was Roy's and was a survivor from High Dyke. It may have been either an Anbrico or even an MTK kit.

 

It was of one of a handful of trains in the sequence that did something other than run through as it worked into Pl 3 and terminated. It then shunted into a siding near North Box and went across to Pl 1 to work back. The Lightweight set was the first DMU that Roy saw and so when the RTR one came out, it replaced the kit built one. June 1957 was close enough!

Edited August 29, 2020 by t-b-g
To add content

[pete55]

3 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

I hope my memory is right here but the Derby Lightweight was possibly Pete Hill's. The Heavyweight was Roy's and was a survivor from High Dyke. It may have been either an Anbrico or even an MTK kit.

 

It was of one of a handful of trains in the sequence that did something other than run through as it worked into Pl 3 and terminated. It then shunted into a siding near North Box and went across to Pl 1 to work back. The Lightweight set was the first DMU that Roy saw and so when the RTR one came out, it replaced the kit built one. June 1957 was close enough!

 

The Derby Lightweight was not mine, I believe it was Buccanneer John's. 

 

Pete

[robertcwp]

9 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

I hope my memory is right here but the Derby Lightweight was possibly Pete Hill's. The Heavyweight was Roy's and was a survivor from High Dyke. It may have been either an Anbrico or even an MTK kit.

 

It was of one of a handful of trains in the sequence that did something other than run through as it worked into Pl 3 and terminated. It then shunted into a siding near North Box and went across to Pl 1 to work back. The Lightweight set was the first DMU that Roy saw and so when the RTR one came out, it replaced the kit built one. June 1957 was close enough!

Now you mention it, I think I saw a photo of that unit on High Dyke. It did not survive with the layout to pass into Sandra's ownership.

[robertcwp]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The GN fiddle yard with the RH trains ready for heading south. As trains leave, they traverse a wide-radius 180 degree curve to enter the scenic section at Babworth.

 

 

 

I think this view is the other way round. The trains on the right-hand side are heading north and will cross over the GC fiddleyard before entering the scenic section at the 'south' end. Those on the left are southbound trains that will enter the scenic section at the Babworth end. 

 

This photo shows in the background a complete maroon Talisman set behind the West Riding set (also all maroon). I find it odd that the London end BSO disappeared from the Talisman and did not make it to Sandra. I would have thought that Roy would have built the whole train rather than have one carriage that belonged to someone else, but perhaps not. 

 

I thought that Thomas and Gordon were for Roy's grandson but I might have been mistaken.

[Tony Wright]

Some images showing the entrances/exits to/from the fiddle yards on Retford. 

 

 

This shot was taken over a decade ago and illustrates how the main line goes on-/off-stage to the north at Babworth. Here the bridge is just a mock-up. 

 

How a Dundee-based (dirty) A2 is heading the Down 'West Riding' to Leeds is probably explained by Roy's sense of humour. How many visitors would notice?

 

 

 

A few years later, and the piers for the approach to the bridge are in place. Worthy of mention are Tony Gee's wonderful model of Babworth 'box and the MSE point rodding, being made and installed by the proprietor himself, Andrew H. 

 

 

Mick Moore's superlative model of the bridge taking the Retford-Worksop road (the real thing replaced an original level crossing, pre-War).   

 

 

And now in situ. The main lines curve around to the left into the fiddle yard behind the backscene. 

 

 

The entrance/exit to Whisker Hill is disguised by this bridge (built by Geoff Kent) taking West Carr Road (I think it's still West Carr Road at this point) over the GC.

 

And the late Tom Harland's beautiful backscene painting takes the GC eastwards out of sight at Thrumpton. 

 

I've never taken a picture of the entrance/exit where the GC goes out of/into sight beyond the flat crossing to the west. Next time.........

 

I hope I've credited all correctly. 

[Tony Wright]

6 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

I think this view is the other way round. The trains on the right-hand side are heading north and will cross over the GC fiddleyard before entering the scenic section at the 'south' end. Those on the left are southbound trains that will enter the scenic section at the Babworth end. 

 

This photo shows in the background a complete maroon Talisman set behind the West Riding set (also all maroon). I find it odd that the London end BSO disappeared from the Talisman and did not make it to Sandra. I would have thought that Roy would have built the whole train rather than have one carriage that belonged to someone else, but perhaps not. 

 

I thought that Thomas and Gordon were for Roy's grandson but I might have been mistaken.

I think I'm right, Robert (though that's always open to conjecture). My captions are always underneath the picture to which they refer..................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Denbridge]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

As previously mentioned, some shots of Retford's fiddle yards. These were taken in 2015, and more roads might have been added since then...............

 

 

The GN fiddle yard with the RH trains ready for heading south. As trains leave, they traverse a wide-radius 180 degree curve to enter the scenic section at Babworth.

 

 

The GN fiddle yard with the RH trains ready to head north. To the right can be seen the GC curve from Whisker Hill allowing eastbound trains to enter the station. 

 

 

The GC fiddle yard with the RH trains ready for heading east. They have two ways of getting on to the scenic section; either use the Whisker Hill curve to gain access to the station, or take the shorter route directly over the flat crossing. The junction for this is off to the left. 

 

Note the GN main line to the right.

 

 

The GC fiddle yard with the RH trains ready to head westwards, either to take the straight route over the crossing or use the junction (which is on the scenic section) to enter the station. 

 

Note the GN main line climbing over the GC fiddle yard, on quite a steep gradient approaching it. The GC fiddle yard also dips down in an astonishing piece of model railway engineering. The baseboard edge and electrical connections (seen through the 'hole in the sky' - to the right - in earlier pictures) are on the bridge section. 

 

 

A wide-angle view should make it all clearer. 

 

This is incredible, this is heroic. I'd even go so far as to say it required the work of a genius to conceive it, start it and work on it. Its completion will be the most-fitting tribute! 

 

Do you see now why I think Retford will be the 'greatest model railway ever'? 

It strikes me that such a huge and wonderful layout, doesn't have that much more off scene storage than your own Little Bytham. I think you stated you run around 45 different trains in your sequence, where I think I counted around 50-55 In these pictures. Please understand I'm in no way criticising Retford, it is an amazing achievement. Purely an observation from one who loves seeing the non scenic aspects of layouts.