Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Precisely - and, in my case, it's loco lamps.

 

My locos will be required to perform a variety of tasks and, despite the S&DJR having a minimalist headcode regime, I believe that no lamps are preferable to the wrong lamps.

 

One point that is rarely mentioned is that loco headlamps - contrary to almost universal modelling practice - were NOT pristine, brilliant white. In my experience, they were usually filthy, and therefore often difficult to detect on an approaching loco.

 

John Isherwood.

Of course, John,

 

'I believe that no lamps are preferable to the wrong lamps.'

 

But not as preferable to the right lamps..................

 

Many of LB's locos carry dirty-ish (white) lamps, and some of those on the MR/M&GNR bit carry black (ex-LMS) lamps. 

 

Actually, just sifting through some pictures, it seems locos operating on the ECML tended to have quite pristine lamps...........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the shot immediately above, these are among the dirtiest I can find..............

 

 

Why not one dirty and one clean lamp?

 

Honestly, I can find very few images of locos out on trains on the ECML with really dirty lamps. I have scores showing clean ones.

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[t-b-g]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Cab doors on steam-outline models?

 

Though I've only got one Hornby A4, the cab doors which that had (which had to be glued in place) dropped off years ago.

 

Looking through some images, despite my saying they're a detail I'll pass on, it seems that several of my locos have them........................

 

 

 

 

DJH A1s certainly have them (as part of the cabside etches), but they have to be cranked inwards slightly to avoid fouling the tender sides. 

 

 

So do DJH's A3s...........

 

 

And DJH's A2/3s (as well as the firm's A2/2s). On this example, I've soldered them to the tender.

 

 

DJH's 9Fs also have them at source (though the instructional drawings show them upside-down, with the cut-out - to clear the tender footplate - to the top!). 

 

 

Only half on a Pro-Scale A4.

 

 

This Crownline A1/1 had doors on both tender and cab, but they must have caught and the ones on the cab have gone!

 

 

The opposite seems to have happened on the same firm's A2/2.

 

 

I've bent these doors (attached to the cabsides) inwards on this Crownline V2, otherwise they caught on the tender sides.

 

I think part of the problem with model cab doors is that they have a tendency to snag with each other, especially on the sharp curves we have to 'endure'. Anyway, because of those sharp curves, our locos and their tenders aren't as close as they should be, meaning either too-wide cab doors (if any), or gaps between them.

 

It's all compromise...........

 

 

 

Looking at some of those tender to loco gaps, I am sure they could be smaller that they are. The lack of any fallplate and a big gap really does show up in side on views.

 

Yet some of the locos look almost right, with a much smaller gap and no daylight showing through.

 

If 60080 can be that close to its tender, why not the others?

 

As for lamps, it was one of Malcolm's rules that no loco would go out on the main line without coal, fire irons, a crew and lamps. He didn't regard a loco as finished until it had them.

 

The locos of Buckingham often swap duties and they have lamps that simply have a small hole drilled up the inside and a tiny blob of "bluetak" or suchlike pushed up into them. Changing them with a pair of tweezers is pretty straightforward.

 

It is one of those things that bothers some modellers greatly and doesn't bother others at all.

 

Having worked Buckingham with removable lamps, that is the way forward for me from now on.      

 

[Tony Wright]

A recent comment referred to Little Bytham having almost as many trains as Retford.

 

One big difference, of course, is that LB cannot be seen 'in the round' as it were, whereas a (literal) walk 'around' Retford is possible. Nonetheless, by exploiting just about every square inch of space, I've managed to get near 50 trains for LB.

 

I hope the following pictures show how this space has been utilised. Apologies for the rather 'gravelly' imagery, but I had to crank the ASA up high....................

 

 

A view from inside the M&GNR operating well (room for only one!) showing the 20-road main line fiddle yard to the left, four of which can accommodate two trains each.

 

The area to the right is the usual Down-operating position (essential in lockdown circumstances).  

 

 

There's an access well to the west of the main line, from where I've taken this picture. 

 

The Down-operating position is more-clearly seen. 

 

Beneath the fiddle yard can be seen the five cassettes, giving me more trains. 

 

 

Swinging left through 90 degrees gives this view of the M&GNR operating well, the two extra Up kick-back sidings for the main line and part of the M&GNR fiddle yard (which can accommodate nine trains- more if I'm prepared to 'fiddle').

 

 

Several of the M&GNR kick-back sidings can be seen here, adjacent to the access well. 

 

There are plenty of spare locos and spare stock. 

 

 

Looking north from the fiddle yard operating position, showing how The Willoughby 'sticks out'. One or two visitors cannot ever get to this position (for obvious reasons!). 

 

Can you see how social-distancing can be achieved?

 

 

There is a tiny access well in the southwest corner, from which this shot was obtained.

 

Some of the Down kick-back sidings (behind the backscene) can be seen to the left. The access (for maintenance and picture-taking) between the layout and the backscene can be seen. This is totally-inaccessible to some visitors! 

 

 

In all, there are seven kick-back sidings here. 

 

 

The 'throat' for those kick-back sidings, and some more Up kick-back sidings as well. 

 

Obviously, it's vital that all trains (however long) can be propelled in or out with ease. 

 

 

 

 

[Denbridge]

22 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

A recent comment referred to Little Bytham having almost as many trains as Retford.

 

One big difference, of course, is that LB cannot be seen 'in the round' as it were, whereas a (literal) walk 'around' Retford is possible. Nonetheless, by exploiting just about every square inch of space, I've managed to get near 50 trains for LB.

 

I hope the following pictures show how this space has been utilised. Apologies for the rather 'gravelly' imagery, but I had to crank the ASA up high....................

 

 

A view from inside the M&GNR operating well (room for only one!) showing the 20-road main line fiddle yard to the left, four of which can accommodate two trains each.

 

The area to the right is the usual Down-operating position (essential in lockdown circumstances).  

 

 

There's an access well to the west of the main line, from where I've taken this picture. 

 

The Down-operating position is more-clearly seen. 

 

Beneath the fiddle yard can be seen the five cassettes, giving me more trains. 

 

 

Swinging left through 90 degrees gives this view of the M&GNR operating well, the two extra Up kick-back sidings for the main line and part of the M&GNR fiddle yard (which can accommodate nine trains- more if I'm prepared to 'fiddle').

 

 

Several of the M&GNR kick-back sidings can be seen here, adjacent to the access well. 

 

There are plenty of spare locos and spare stock. 

 

 

Looking north from the fiddle yard operating position, showing how The Willoughby 'sticks out'. One or two visitors cannot ever get to this position (for obvious reasons!). 

 

Can you see how social-distancing can be achieved?

 

 

There is a tiny access well in the southwest corner, from which this shot was obtained.

 

Some of the Down kick-back sidings (behind the backscene) can be seen to the left. The access (for maintenance and picture-taking) between the layout and the backscene can be seen. This is totally-inaccessible to some visitors! 

 

 

In all, there are seven kick-back sidings here. 

 

 

The 'throat' for those kick-back sidings, and some more Up kick-back sidings as well. 

 

Obviously, it's vital that all trains (however long) can be propelled in or out with ease. 

 

 

 

 

Many thanks for showing these Tony. I've always had a fascination about how people address off scene storage. I know you've posted a lot of pictures in the past, but these shots are really informative.

I am looking forward to being able to take up your invitation to visit so much, once this crazy world we are currently living in begins to return to normality. Whatever the new normal may be.

[Tony Wright]

31 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Looking at some of those tender to loco gaps, I am sure they could be smaller that they are. The lack of any fallplate and a big gap really does show up in side on views.

 

Yet some of the locos look almost right, with a much smaller gap and no daylight showing through.

 

If 60080 can be that close to its tender, why not the others?

 

As for lamps, it was one of Malcolm's rules that no loco would go out on the main line without coal, fire irons, a crew and lamps. He didn't regard a loco as finished until it had them.

 

The locos of Buckingham often swap duties and they have lamps that simply have a small hole drilled up the inside and a tiny blob of "bluetak" or suchlike pushed up into them. Changing them with a pair of tweezers is pretty straightforward.

 

It is one of those things that bothers some modellers greatly and doesn't bother others at all.

 

Having worked Buckingham with removable lamps, that is the way forward for me from now on.      

 

'If 60080 can be that close to its tender, why not the others?'

 

Good question. Most of my locos have sprung drawbars, so they could be at their maximum extension - operating on the heaviest trains. Clearly, some need 'tightening up'.

 

Bytham's locos can swap duties as well, and the lamps are changed in just the same way.

 

'As for lamps, it was one of Malcolm's rules that no loco would go out on the main line without coal, fire irons, a crew and lamps. He didn't regard a loco as finished until it had them.'

 

I couldn't agree more. However, since most big locos had a fire iron tunnel on their tenders, though I model it, I don't bother sticking (invisible) fire irons into it. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[2750Papyrus]

Tony, with so many storage locations,  do you have a system so you know where a particular train or loco is "parked" or do you rely on visual identification?

[Clive Mortimore]

46 minutes ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Tony, with so many storage locations,  do you have a system so you know where a particular train or loco is "parked" or do you rely on visual identification?

Having been allowed to operate the fiddle yard on LB when visiting (Tony popped out for a short while and was silly in leaving me and richard i alone) all I can say knowing where a train is parked was more luck than anything else. It was great fun and I am thankful that Tony had the trust in me with his train set.

[Metropolitan H]

On 26/08/2020 at 20:36, Hawin Dooiey said:

Here is the latest Little Bytham video, filmed by @Tony Wright

Enjoy! (quality will improve as the video processes)

 

 

Very good - I enjoyed that last half hour.

 

The sound was also good, apart for the odd loco with what sounded like dry gears and the odd squeaky wagon axle-box!!

 

Well done to both.

 

Regards

Chris H

[2750Papyrus]

Thanks very much for making and posting the video, it helps make up for the layouts and exhibitions we are currently missing.  I also watched Stoke and the Gresley Beat - all good for watching the trains go by as we did 60 years ago!

 

A couple of shots I didn't quite understand - was there some wrong line working on the M&GN?

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Tony, with so many storage locations,  do you have a system so you know where a particular train or loco is "parked" or do you rely on visual identification?

When a controller is turned 'on' (giving power) every fiddle yard road it operates (it could be every one via cab control, though that never happens) and every appropriate scenic road is energised; apart from where the locos at the head of trains stand. That foot of distance is isolated by a single, simple on/off switch for every dead section. The fiddle yard operator (following the sequence) sets the road and switches the appropriate switch 'on'. The driver (on the scenic section) then selects which controller (there are four) he/she will use and drives the train around (just once for each in the sequence).

 

Where the are two trains in one road, there's a separate 'slave' controller which moves the second train up, once the one in front has left. Where a road is divided into three sections (two unequal-length trains) there's a separate switch for that. 

 

There is no need for 'visual identification'. It would be impossible to operate with DCC (unless a full list of locos were written and which roads they were on; constantly being updated as locos are changed) because upwards of a dozen locos are 'invisible' at their starting positions.

 

I'll take some pictures later. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.    

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Metropolitan H said:

Very good - I enjoyed that last half hour.

 

The sound was also good, apart for the odd loco with what sounded like dry gears and the odd squeaky wagon axle-box!!

 

Well done to both.

 

Regards

Chris H

Many thanks Chris,

 

I think it's been established that the camcorder exacerbates/increases any mechanical noise from the locos/stock (and a squeaking wagon is quite prototypical). 

 

I'm already shooting the next 'programme' on LB (selecting the absolutely quietest locos!) for showing during the next BRM 'Virtual Exhibition' in the autumn. I'll also be shooting moving footage of Retford and a couple more other layouts as well. All will be edited by those who know what they're doing.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.   

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Thanks very much for making and posting the video, it helps make up for the layouts and exhibitions we are currently missing.  I also watched Stoke and the Gresley Beat - all good for watching the trains go by as we did 60 years ago!

 

A couple of shots I didn't quite understand - was there some wrong line working on the M&GN?

Little Bytham was an end-junction between the MR and the M&GNR. The MR (to the west) was only single track to Saxby Junction (with passing loops at the stations) and the M&GNR was double track to Bourne. Although the girder bridge was built for double track (as was the whole formation to Saxby) only one road (the northern one) was a running line. The other one (the southern one) was no more than an extended siding (only used for storing wagons, and, ironically, during track-lifting in 1959). 

 

Thus, there was no wrong line working in the video.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[landscapes]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Of course, John,

 

'I believe that no lamps are preferable to the wrong lamps.'

 

But not as preferable to the right lamps..................

 

Many of LB's locos carry dirty-ish (white) lamps, and some of those on the MR/M&GNR bit carry black (ex-LMS) lamps. 

 

Actually, just sifting through some pictures, it seems locos operating on the ECML tended to have quite pristine lamps...........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the shot immediately above, these are among the dirtiest I can find..............

 

 

Why not one dirty and one clean lamp?

 

Honestly, I can find very few images of locos out on trains on the ECML with really dirty lamps. I have scores showing clean ones.

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony

 

Some stunning colour photos of LNER Pacific's, are they Keith Pirt photos by chance?

 

Regards

 

David

[ROY@34F]

17 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Many thanks,

 

Cab doors? Yes, you're probably right but their closure would not be universal, even at speed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

No stopping here as 60054 is well notched up on the southbound climb to Stoke. Cab doors not even half-closed.

 

 

Stationary, but cab doors almost wide. Locos didn't normally change crews at Retford, so why open?

 

 

Locos/crews did change at Grantham, so is this the reason for the doors being open?

 

Covers between cab roofs and tender fronts on A4s. Yes, almost universal, but I have heard tales of fireman putting a shovel through them in very hot weather.

 

My problem is that, on a model, they never look right because they cannot be attached to both loco and tender, as they were in reality. 

 

Even on the real thing, they could come adrift.........

 

 

Crumpled on 60028.

 

 

And flying off on 60030. 

 

I know some other Pacifics had them.........

 

 

But not this A2/3.

 

I think the principal problem with cab doors and cab/tender coverings is that we ask our models to go around ridiculous curves (in scale) compared with the real thing. Cab doors can catch and cause derailments (unlike on the real things, where they'd just be ripped off if they interfered with each other) and the cover would just be torn to shreds. 

 

I think they're details which, in the interests of pragmatic good-running, I'll pass on. 

 

Two observations, if I may? The cab eaves below the rainstrip in BR livery were painted black, not green, and there should be no 'line' where the streamlined non-corridor tender sides curve over at the top.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tony , I think you're wrong about the cab doors . On your three photos of the A3s , if the doors were open they would be at 90 degrees to the cab sides , and you would  not see so much of the firehole door .  But they look to be closed to me because when closed on the A3s , they settled in the closed "notch" at an angle a bit outward pointing as opposed to parallel with the cab sides .

I think the A4s had a door on the engine and one on the tender which overlapped when closed and held closed by a looped latch over the top , allowing them to slide over one another but stay closed .

 

Regards , Roy .

 

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, landscapes said:

Hi Tony

 

Some stunning colour photos of LNER Pacific's, are they Keith Pirt photos by chance?

 

Regards

 

David

I cannot comment David.

 

They're obviously under copyright, and I'm allowed to show them on here (within limits). The original scans are high-res, and I just make them very small. Though they appear sharp on the screen, any attempt at printing them results in poor quality. 

 

A necessary precaution. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, ROY@34F said:

Tony , I think you're wrong about the cab doors . On your three photos of the A3s , if the doors were open they would be at 90 degrees to the cab sides , and you would  not see so much of the firehole door .  But they look to be closed to me because when closed on the A3s , they settled in the closed "notch" at an angle a bit outward pointing as opposed to parallel with the cab sides .

I think the A4s had a door on the engine and one on the tender which overlapped when closed and held closed by a looped latch over the top , allowing them to slide over one another but stay closed .

 

Regards , Roy .

 

 

Thanks Roy,

 

Were there doors on the tender then, Roy? If so, there's still a gap, unless they're open. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[landscapes]

15 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I cannot comment David.

 

They're obviously under copyright, and I'm allowed to show them on here (within limits). The original scans are high-res, and I just make them very small. Though they appear sharp on the screen, any attempt at printing them results in poor quality. 

 

A necessary precaution. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony

 

Sorry should have known better not to ask, but great photos all the same.

 

Regards

 

David

[Tony Wright]

As promised, some explanatory photographs showing Bytham's controls.

 

 

A close-up from a previous shot showing the MR/M&GNR control panel (designed by Ian Wilson). Again, simple on/off switches. 

 

Power is provided by a single H&M 'Clipper' (seen in a previous picture).

 

Points within easy reach are worked by hand. For those further away, I use the 'stick' mounted above the panel. It's digital! 

 

 

Two of the Up kick-back sidings' accesses (seen in previous pictures) are marked here.

 

 

Their switches are separate from the main control panel. 

 

 

The main control panel, designed, made and installed by Rob Kinsey. Points are controlled by stud-contact/electric pencil using a CDU. 

 

The 'slave' controller is an H&M 'Duette' mounted beneath this panel.

 

What's happened is that I've increased the number of available sidings considerably, and there hasn't been the space/depth beneath the panel to install the extra switches. Not without interfering with loads of (perfectly-working) wires. 

 

 

So, I've used the likes of dolls' house switches for some roads/sections.

 

 

Or mounted simple on/off switches within easy reach of the main panel.

 

The switches to the left allow me to isolate sections on the main running lines (useful in fault-finding), and those to the right control the seven extra kick-back sidings on the Down side.

 

Those seven sidings can be worked independently by this Gaugemaster controller, which also works the test track and service area. 

 

Although all the above additions might seem a little Heath-Robinson, they all work perfectly, and, most important, I understand it all! 

 

 

The scenic section control panel; designed, made and installed by Norman Solomon (with much wiring from it by me). As can be seen, it's arranged for cab control, and the leads from the four Helmsman power boxes (O Gauge ones) can be seen below. It's a doddle to operate, effectively mimicking what's on the railway. 

 

 

The 'south' end of the fiddle yard (actually at the north end, but the trains go around a circuit). Road 19 (second from left) is usually kept clear for trains from the Down kick-back sidings, though it's occupied twice in the sequence. Road 1 (extreme right) is usually kept free for trains from the Up kick-back sidings and the cassettes (access point to the extreme right), though this is also occupied twice in the sequence. 

 

 

The operator's view from the fiddle yard control panel.

 

Plenty of spare locos!

 

I hope all of this makes sense. Apologies for the poor-quality, hand-held photography. 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Tony,

 

As others have said they are great photos of LNER lamps....and the trains aren’t bad either!

 

I was particularly taken by this one with the ex streamlined stock as the 2nd and 3rd vehicles.

 

Do you know what the service is?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

1 minute ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

As others have said they are great photos of LNER lamps....and the trains aren’t bad either!

 

I was particularly taken by this one with the ex streamlined stock as the 2nd and 3rd vehicles.

 

Do you know what the service is?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

Over to you, Robert.

 

Is it a West Riding service?

 

I can't find it in my records.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[MJI]

OK I have a chassis issue

 

A small 0-6-0 driven on front axle.

 

It is just stiff.

 

However there is no play on the crank pins, should there be?

 

Quartering seems fine.

[ROY@34F]

25 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Roy,

 

Were there doors on the tender then, Roy? If so, there's still a gap, unless they're open. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony , There weren't any on the A3 tenders . On the A4s (and the A1s I think)  , I reckon the tender doors were attached to the side sheets similar to the cab side ones . 

You also mentioned the rubber sheet between cab and tender on A4s and A1s ?  I don't remember seeing any where they had been ripped open with a shovel , but the cab roof vents were handy and  often open .

This was all a couple of pages ago .  I can't keep pace with this popular thread of yours .

 

Regards , Roy .

[Chuffer Davies]

9 minutes ago, MJI said:

OK I have a chassis issue

 

A small 0-6-0 driven on front axle.

 

It is just stiff.

 

However there is no play on the crank pins, should there be?

 

Quartering seems fine.

Did all the wheels turn freely before the coupling rods were added?
 

If the wheels turn freely without the coupling rods and there are no specific tight spots then you might open out all the coupling rod holes by a very small and equal amount using a broach (ideally) to see if this cures the problem.
 

Good luck,

 

Frank

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Over to you, Robert.

 

Is it a West Riding service?

 

I can't find it in my records.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Not sure what it is. Any idea of the date? The engine has the late emblem, double chimney and AWS I see.

Edited August 30, 2020 by robertcwp

[Theakerr]

All my tender locos are rigidly close coupled so I suspect this may make it easier to have fall plates, tender doors and loco to tender covers.   My minimum radius is 36" and as all my loco doors have a bend at the midway point to accommodate the radius effect. Even viewed straight on they dont look too bad.  Regarding the A4 loco to tender cover, it took me nearly 5 years and many trails that ended up in the bin before I came up with this iteration.  The breakthrough was the use of a piece of a black nitrile glove.  It holds its shape round corners and slight undulations because it is 'slippery'.  This winter I plan on version 2 where I eliminate the dip at the loco connection.    Also I guess this winter I will be busy with the airbrush correcting the cab roof.  I had never noticed it before but now I see it on the A4s and others every time I look at them.