Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

Not sure what it is. Any idea of the date? The engine has the late emblem, double chimney and AWS I see.

1959, I believe, Robert,

 

There are several pictures in the collection where the restaurant twin is near the front (or the rear) of trains. I can't find references to this in my records. If there is a restaurant twin it's usually nearer the centre of a train. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

1959, I believe, Robert,

 

There are several pictures in the collection where the restaurant twin is near the front (or the rear) of trains. I can't find references to this in my records. If there is a restaurant twin it's usually nearer the centre of a train. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I don't have the Summer 1959 or Summer 1960 East Coast Carriage Workings but I have the Winter 1959-60 edition, which shows restaurant twins still in the King's Cross-Glasgow train (two sets). The Summer 1959 GN book shows a restaurant twin still in the West Riding. That would leave one spare, and it could well be the spare that is in this image, if it is from 1959. 

 

By the Summer of 1960, the West Riding had lost its twin. By the Winter of 1960-61, the King's Cross-Glasgow no longer had the twin restaurants either. If the image is in fact from 1960, it's probably a Saturdays only or relief working.

Edited August 31, 2020 by robertcwp
Typo.

[TrevorP1]

5 hours ago, ROY@34F said:

Tony , I think you're wrong about the cab doors . On your three photos of the A3s , if the doors were open they would be at 90 degrees to the cab sides , and you would  not see so much of the firehole door .  But they look to be closed to me because when closed on the A3s , they settled in the closed "notch" at an angle a bit outward pointing as opposed to parallel with the cab sides .

I think the A4s had a door on the engine and one on the tender which overlapped when closed and held closed by a looped latch over the top , allowing them to slide over one another but stay closed .

 

Regards , Roy .

 

 

I have no knowledge of A3s but from my days at the MHR I remember ‘Bittern’ being exactly as you describe. The rubber sheeting from cab roof to tender was very thick, something like ½ inch - whether the BR version was like this I have no idea.

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

So, I've used the likes of dolls' house switches for some roads/sections.

Wow, I haven't seen those for decades! They used to cost 1/- from Woolworth's I think.

[drmditch]

5 hours ago, ROY@34F said:

 I think the A4s had a door on the engine and one on the tender which overlapped when closed and held closed by a looped latch over the top , allowing them to slide over one another but stay closed .

 

Regards , Roy .

 

 

 

This is certainly the arrangement on 'Green Arrow', as at present preserved.

( I will try to remember to take a picture next Friday.)

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Wow, I haven't seen those for decades! They used to cost 1/- from Woolworth's I think.

That's right, John,

 

All my early train sets used these. Where I got these from, I can't remember but not from years ago. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, robertcwp said:

I don't have the Summer 1959 or Summer 1960 East Coast Carriage Workings but I have the Winter 1959-60 edition, which shows restaurant twins still in the King's Cross-Glasgow train (two sets). The Summer 1959 GN book shows a restaurant twin still in the West Riding. That would leave one spare, and it could well be the spare that is in this image, if it is from 1959. 

 

By the Summer of 1960, the West Riding had lost its twin. By the Winter of 1960-61, the King's Cross-Glasgow no longer had the twin restaurants either. If the image is in fact from 1960, it's probably a Saturdays only or relief working.

I think this is a 'problem' we've discussed before, Robert.

 

Many pictures one sees (especially in the summer) were taken at the weekends, particularly Saturdays when the 'book' formations seem to be jumbled up, and many reliefs/extras were run.

 

Exciting, but not entirely typical, especially if one wishes to make-up 'correct' formations.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Tony Wright]

More Restaurant Twins............

 

 

This express is approaching Gainsborough Lea Road, which suggests a weekend diversion. I can find no record of a train with the ex-streamlined catering twins as the first vehicles.

 

 

The same working, though the formations are not the same? But this time not diverted as the express heads northwards at Markham Moor. Both sets carry roof-mounted destination boards, so it doesn't suggest an 'extra'. Any ideas?

 

Speaking of summer Saturdays, I'd venture to state that the following pictures were taken then, in 1962.

 

 

Though this set carries roof boards, I cannot find such a train in my records - there are at least four Thompsons and two Gresleys in this rake.

 

 

A relief? Both shots were taken at Stoke Summit.

 

 

Possibly taken on the same day. Here we have some ex-LMS cars, and at least one ex-GWR carriage in this Up train leaving Grantham (along with a Mk.1 catering car). The 'bobby' has returned the home signal to 'on' very quickly, against the regulations, unless it's a SPAD!). I doubt if this formation exists in any 'permanent' CWN. 

 

More and more I'm inclined to follow prototype photographs in my making up of trains, even if they could be summer weekend ones. 

 

A fascinating subject indeed..............

 

 

 

 

[dibateg]

I recall a discussion on restaurant and kitchen cars a while back. Whilst browsing through some old Backtrack magazines and looking for something else I found this splendid vehicle. Wouldn't it make a lovely model.

 

Thanks for the 'behind the scenes' photos Tony, it's impressive the amount you have squeezed in! Anymore and you'd be operating from the outside through the shed window!

 

Best Regards

Tony

[johndon]

A 5 minute video of a layout I'm involved with which Tony has posted a couple of photos of in this thread over time.

 

It is an EM gauge model of South Pelaw Junction on the Tyne Dock to Consett line and, whilst not on the ECML, it does join the ECML a stones throw away from the modelled location.  Like Little Bytham and Retford, it is the work of a number of skilled modellers, some of whom have, over the years, also been involved in the construction of Retford.  It is a little larger than LB but smaller than Retford.  Built for the exhibition circuit, we obviously don't know when we'll be able to take it out again (although we are booked for the EM Gauge society show in May 2021), at least videos like this allow us to get it 'out there'.

 

The video was taken on a hand held iPhone so there is some shake here and there so I think a small tripod may be warranted for future videos.  Hope you enjoy it:

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by johndon

[Tony Wright]

13 minutes ago, johndon said:

A 5 minute video of a layout I'm involved with which Tony has posted a couple of photos of in this thread over time.

 

It is an EM gauge model of South Pelaw Junction on the Tyne Dock to Consett line and, whilst not on the ECML, it does join the ECML a stones throw away from the modelled location.  Like Little Bytham and Retford, it is the work of a number of skilled modellers, some of whom have, over the years, also been involved in the construction of Retford.  It is a little larger than LB but smaller than Retford.  Built for the exhibition circuit, we obviously don't know when we'll be able to take it out again (although we are booked for the EM Gauge society show in May 2021), at least videos like this allow us to get it 'out there'.

 

The video was taken on a hand held iPhone so there is some shake here and there so I think a small tripod may be warranted for future videos.  Hope you enjoy it:

 

 

 

Wonderful stuff, John,

 

Thanks for showing us..............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[westerner]

Nothing to do with doors on cabs or anything which has gone before, I don't think so any way. It is extremely difficult to keep up with Tony's thread unless one is on it all the time. However a photo I hope you like from my O gauge layout Blakeney.

 

Entitled: Patiently Waiting

 

[rowanj]

17 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

As others have said they are great photos of LNER lamps....and the trains aren’t bad either!

 

I was particularly taken by this one with the ex streamlined stock as the 2nd and 3rd vehicles.

 

Do you know what the service is?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

Just to add to the confusion on this service, the position of the leading brake, with the compartments immediately behind the tender, suggests a West Riding service, but the loco is a Tyneside one. It would be very unusual if it were on a Leeds relief, though not, unknown, I imagine. There seem to be destination boards on the twin, but they are very short, and I cant see any others on the rest of the stock. What is the location of the photo-I assume it's a Down service, south of Doncaster?

[LNER4479]

17 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Plenty of spare locos!

 

... even without taking into account the ones in all the drawers!

[LNER4479]

3 minutes ago, rowanj said:

What is the location of the photo-I assume it's a Down service, south of Doncaster?

Peascliffe tunnel, just north of Grantham; it's an 'up' service, heading south

 

Note - one mucky lamp and one very clean one!

Edited August 31, 2020 by LNER4479

[rowanj]

14 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Peascliffe tunnel, just north of Grantham; it's an 'up' service, heading south

 

Note - one mucky lamp and one very clean one!

So more and more likely it came down from Tyneside, with Tranquil in charge, but where was the origin? Glasgow or Edinburgh, I imagine.

[Porcy Mane]

5 minutes ago, rowanj said:

So more and more likely it came down from Tyneside, with Tranquil in charge, but where was the origin? Glasgow or Edinburgh, I imagine.

 

Might be the Delaval>Holloway stock train?

[rowanj]

3 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Might be the Delaval>Holloway stock train?

Aren't the lamps wrong for an ECS? This is why I don't fit them.....

[CUTLER2579]

If it's any help 60071 received the 107 Boiler in December 1959 and the double chimney at the same time. It then Received the German type Smoke Deflectors in November 1961. Therefore this photograph was taken between these two dates. At that time 60071 was a 52A or 51A resident.

[richard i]

3 hours ago, johndon said:

A 5 minute video of a layout I'm involved with which Tony has posted a couple of photos of in this thread over time.

 

It is an EM gauge model of South Pelaw Junction on the Tyne Dock to Consett line and, whilst not on the ECML, it does join the ECML a stones throw away from the modelled location.  Like Little Bytham and Retford, it is the work of a number of skilled modellers, some of whom have, over the years, also been involved in the construction of Retford.  It is a little larger than LB but smaller than Retford.  Built for the exhibition circuit, we obviously don't know when we'll be able to take it out again (although we are booked for the EM Gauge society show in May 2021), at least videos like this allow us to get it 'out there'.

 

The video was taken on a hand held iPhone so there is some shake here and there so I think a small tripod may be warranted for future videos.  Hope you enjoy it:

 

 

 

Great video.

to my shame, I felt there as nothing going on for too long on the shot of the bridge. Then I went back and timed how long it was before the train appeared. 7 seconds. I coped better with the next scene, only 3 seconds before the train appeared. It says far more about my attention span than it does about the great modeling. I suppose it shows the high bar being set for exhibition layouts if they wNt to keep people like me entertained. 
Richard 

[Iain.d]

How time flies on this thread….

 

Over the weekend I was able to finish my build of a LSWR 3 coach set from Roxey Mouldings. Overall, I’m quite pleased with how they have turned out. As a whole (with painted roof, underframes, numbering, and so on) the colour has toned down and is much less garish on the eye. They went together really well, much easier than the Maunsell’s I completed previously. The roof fit is much better too; I took my time and was much more careful in marking, cutting and filing. The only part I didn’t use in the kit was the funny S style hand rails on the guard’s doors – they were the wrong size, so I just bent some .33mm wire. The commode handles were a bit of a faff, when I trialled the first one or two, the bit you're supposed to bend over and pass through the holes in the carriage side made the handle look wrong - or maybe I got the bend in the wrong place - anyway I ended up drilling out the centre of the top and bottom of each handle and soldered in a piece of .45mm brass wire as a stanchion.

 

I have no specific LSWR carriage books, so I spent ages pouring over photos in the various books I do have, CWNs from Robert Carroll’s website, magazines such as Backtrack, and just about any info I could find on the internet, including RMWeb and even photos on eBay.

 

LSWR Dwg 1227/1568 (SR Dia 131) 56 ft Corridor Brake Third (Left Hand)

 

LSWR Dwg 1214 (SR Dia 282) 54ft Corridor Composite

 

LSWR Dwg 1227/1568 (SR Dia 139) 56 ft Corridor Brake Third (Right Hand)

 

On piecing the information I found all together, I concluded that I wasn’t going to complete an accurate set that ran on the Somerset and Dorset in the early 50s from what was available on the kit market, so they are a representational set. In my research I was actually surprised how tidy many of these carriages were at this time, despite most being somewhere between 40 and 50 years old. This set is still perhaps too clean and will, one day, receive some weathering treatment.

 

 

I was also quite pleased how the corridor connectors look, despite the reasonably large gap between the carriages.

 

When the money tree blooms, I will look to purchase another set, probably non-corridor in BR Crimson.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

[Porcy Mane]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

Aren't the lamps wrong for an ECS?

 

I've been shown pics of the train showing express headlamps. As we know, incorrect headcodes could be displayed on occasion.

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

Aren't the lamps wrong for an ECS? This is why I don't fit them.....

There is also somebody sitting in the leading bay of the front coach ...

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, rowanj said:

Just to add to the confusion on this service, the position of the leading brake, with the compartments immediately behind the tender, suggests a West Riding service, but the loco is a Tyneside one. It would be very unusual if it were on a Leeds relief, though not, unknown, I imagine. There seem to be destination boards on the twin, but they are very short, and I cant see any others on the rest of the stock. What is the location of the photo-I assume it's a Down service, south of Doncaster?

 

Afternoon John,

 

it looks like a scratch set, a typical summer saturdays train, straight out of the special trains notice. Definitely not an ECS, not with a passenger in the BTO. A catering portion has been added to the front. A BTO and Thompson catering cars are not normal bed fellows, except When the Thompson catering is RF (could be downgraded to RU, can't tell) and RFO, thus the BTO is positioned to provide some third class dining seating, note the window ticket. The three are marshalled alongside a MK1 corridor composite, providing first class compartment access to the RFO. The whole lot looks a bit Heath Robinson but not untypical of Summer saturdays workings. The set is unlikely to be a West Riding concoction, even if the loco was not so obviously NE. The Thompson catering of this type I think we're ECF, non being cascaded but could be borrowed for special trains workings.

 

P.S. The destination boards may be unrelated, reflecting the carriages weekday workings, or indicate an outing by the Tyneside shipbuilders amalgamated knitting circle.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Headstock
add p.s.

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Afternoon John,

 

it looks like a scratch set, a typical summer saturdays train, straight out of the special trains notice. Definitely not an ECS, not with a passenger in the BTO. A catering portion has been added to the front. A BTO and Thompson catering cars are not normal bed fellows, except When the Thompson catering is RF (could be downgraded to RU, can't tell) and RFO, thus the BTO is positioned to provide some third class dining seating, note the window ticket. The three are marshalled alongside a MK1 corridor composite, providing first class compartment access to the RFO. The whole lot looks a bit Heath Robinson but not untypical of Summer saturdays workings. The set is unlikely to be a West Riding concoction, even if the loco was not so obviously NE. The Thompson catering of this type I think we're ECF, non being cascaded but could be borrowed for special trains workings.

 

P.S. The destination boards may be unrelated, reflecting the carriages weekday workings, or indicate an outing by the Tyneside shipbuilders amalgamated knitting circle.

It's not Thompson catering, it's an ex-streamlined twin restaurant second-open second pair. In the 1950s, their regular workings were one set in the West Riding and two in the King's Cross-Glasgow. I think this left the remaining one spare. By around 1960, they had been displaced from those workings. I agree this is probably a Saturday extra of some sort.