RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2020 Tony, I am looking to model A3, 60046, Diamond Jubilee with her 1935 non corridor tender using Hornby parts. I’m thinking of taking the tender off an A4 (Miles Beevor). My question is, are the 1935 non-corridor tenders the same when coupled to an A3 as on an A4? They look the same to me, but I know that my powers of observation let me down from time to time, so I thought I’d check With the expert before I buy the A4. Thanks Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: This is just a guess, Mick, But it looks like a much-modified Tri-ang/Hornby A3 chassis; the slot beneath the motor accommodating the (plastic) motion support bracket and its being driven off the rear axle suggest this.............. It's obviously been re-wheeled with much smaller drivers. The coupled wheelbase for an A7 is 7' 3" + 7' + 3", which is exactly the same as an A3 (though whether the Tri-ang A3 chassis scales at this, I don't know. It might do, because they're certainly not the original Tri-ang 'rods). Regards, Tony. A3? interesting . I wonder if a current Hornby A3 chassis will fit ? There is a huge amount of internal space, so i will try and find one via ebay. I believe Gibson do the bearings for the axles. The Romford Driving wheels fitted are the correct diameter as well , the bogie and pony wheels will be changed in due course. Any suggestions welcome re material to make for a seperate chassis for the front bogie, if I end up using this chassis to secure the cylinder casting please . Any ideas as to what make the fitted motor is ? a 5 pole XO4 type. The magnet is very strong ,as it likes a steel screwdriver very much !! Thanks for any further info. Edited September 9, 2020 by micklner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said: Tony, I am looking to model A3, 60046, Diamond Jubilee with her 1935 non corridor tender using Hornby parts. I’m thinking of taking the tender off an A4 (Miles Beevor). My question is, are the 1935 non-corridor tenders the same when coupled to an A3 as on an A4? They look the same to me, but I know that my powers of observation let me down from time to time, so I thought I’d check With the expert before I buy the A4. Thanks Andy Identical as far as I am aware , other than livery. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2020 29 minutes ago, micklner said: Identical as far as I am aware , other than livery. Thanks. When you say other than livery are you talking about LNER days? Presumably early or late emblem Brunswick green would be the same on both classes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good afternoon John, What you need is a Hornby A4 with a double chimney, no valences and towing a 1928-style corridor tender. That's the one with a flat back, beading and a turn-in at the front of the tanks. Like this........... I can't remember which manifestation this was originally, but I renumbered/renamed it to represent GANNET. I've since sold it on. Avoid the Railroad version (even if you won't be using the chassis). Though the loco body is fine, the tender is the too-fat one, originally made obese to accommodate the tender drive. This is what SIR NIGEL GRESLEY looked like (or a model of it) as first preserved in the late-'60s............ I built this from a SE Finecast kit (which Ian Rathbone painted - he's now repainting it to BR green). If your model is to represent the loco in this condition, you'll probably have to take off the front numberplate from the Hornby model. I hope this helps. Regards, Tony. Thanks for that Tony, very much appreciated. John 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted September 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Tony Wright said: It's the slot in the frames which made me think it was an A3, Tony, Though both the Tri-ang A3 and the B12 shared the same chassis block (and the 'Hall' and the original 'Coronation'). Regards, Tony. Those days when one size fitted all and a wheelbase that was close was " good enough". 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Knight Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Good afternoon Tony, As a member of the group with responsibility for "The Great Marquess" when it came to grief you will understand how immensely pleased to see her running again on LB looking in first class order - the sight has really made my day, and I will pass on the good news to the other culprits. I know it was a good few years ago Tony, but it was actually at Wolverhampton when breaking down and packing away after we had been giving her a run on 'Kensal Green' which made a nice change for us instead of all that copper engined stuff. Regards to yourself and Mo, who knows these days when our paths will cross again ! Chris K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 3 hours ago, micklner said: Re the A7 disaster wreck shown yesterday. I have now recieved a full refund from the seller, and he doesnt wish for it to be returned. In view of this the bin option is on hold for the moment. Photos of the rtr chassis in case anyone has any idea what it might be. It has been cut to fit the body. The XO4 type motor is 5 pole and runs well after repostioning the motor/gear gap and oiling. The gear has some wear on it from the earlier/previous spinning , at the moment it is turning ok. It has etched rods fitted at 29mm spacing between each crankpin. I have no idea if this is correct for a A7, or if the rods are from the original kit. I havent been able to find the spacings so far ? It needs a sub chassis added to the front end , this will look better and stop the cylinders turning from side to side under load. Any suggestions re the best material and thickness to use . I am hoping to use plastic sheet if viable. Hi Mick. In view of this development, are you still looking for a set of instructions? I have an A7 in the roundtuit pile; I can fish it out and send a copy of the instruction sheet if you do Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted September 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2020 4 hours ago, micklner said: Re the A7 disaster wreck shown yesterday. I have now recieved a full refund from the seller, and he doesnt wish for it to be returned. In view of this the bin option is on hold for the moment. Photos of the rtr chassis in case anyone has any idea what it might be. It has been cut to fit the body. The XO4 type motor is 5 pole and runs well after repostioning the motor/gear gap and oiling. The gear has some wear on it from the earlier/previous spinning , at the moment it is turning ok. It has etched rods fitted at 29mm spacing between each crankpin. I have no idea if this is correct for a A7, or if the rods are from the original kit. I havent been able to find the spacings so far ? It needs a sub chassis added to the front end , this will look better and stop the cylinders turning from side to side under load. Any suggestions re the best material and thickness to use . I am hoping to use plastic sheet if viable. Mick my A7 came with etched frames.. it has a D13 in it though. The cab roof is a hefty piece of whitemetal. Cylinders (cast) fir into "slots" in the chassis etch. Slidebars are nickel silver. That one is a complete bodge! Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted September 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2020 Wills Kits.. Built by my late father. He did a nice job of it.. then I painted and lined it. I think it was a Triang chassis. and of course my first ever kit. A wills Flatiron runs on a Jinty chassis albeit withRomford wheels. It has seen some use over the last 50 years.. How about GEM kits? they used Triang chassis Queen of the Belgians on a B12 chassis .. hence it is far too tall! and of course you could use Triang chassis for building (in this case Plasticard) bodies.. a GSWR Baltic tank In addition a Princess chassis is spot on for a Furness Railway Baltic tank...so some of the Triang chassis may have not been exact for what they were used for but could be used for other things (other than the Flatiron all locos built by my late Father and most are between 50 and 40 years old). Baz 17 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: Tony, I am looking to model A3, 60046, Diamond Jubilee with her 1935 non corridor tender using Hornby parts. I’m thinking of taking the tender off an A4 (Miles Beevor). My question is, are the 1935 non-corridor tenders the same when coupled to an A3 as on an A4? They look the same to me, but I know that my powers of observation let me down from time to time, so I thought I’d check With the expert before I buy the A4. Thanks Andy Andy, As far as I know they're identical. The only difference (if there is one) might be at the top front of the tender where, on the A4s, there's a sheet between it and the cab roof rear; not present on the (no more than five at any one time) A3s. I can't decide if those streamlined non-corridor tenders (which were 1937, not 1935) attached to A3s had a lower frontplate than when attached to A4s. Didn't Hornby ever make the A3/streamlined non-corridor tender combination? The A3s (and A1s) getting such tenders came about when their 1928 corridor tenders were attached to A4s (including FLYING SCOTSMAN's). Regards, Tony. Edited September 9, 2020 by Tony Wright to clarify a point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted September 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2020 I like the Blue A4.. very nice. Just repaired and sold a Green Hornby A4 (regauged back to 00 from Carlisle) But it shows how big the seams are on the casing - nearly as large as the Bachman Mk1 roof "Seams" compared to a Wills A4 which looks a lot better for the lack of seams.. I didn't build it or put the silly smokebox plate on.. I just made it work and sold it.... Baz 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 1 hour ago, micklner said: A3? interesting . I wonder if a current Hornby A3 chassis will fit ? There is a huge amount of internal space, so i will try and find one via ebay. I believe Gibson do the bearings for the axles. The Romford Driving wheels fitted are the correct diameter as well , the bogie and pony wheels will be changed in due course. Any suggestions welcome re material to make for a seperate chassis for the front bogie, if I end up using this chassis to secure the cylinder casting please . Any ideas as to what make the fitted motor is ? a 5 pole XO4 type. The magnet is very strong ,as it likes a steel screwdriver very much !! Thanks for any further info. Comet makes a range of bogies, Mick; sold separately. The A7 had a bogie wheelbase of 6' 6". An A3 has a bogie wheelbase of 6' 3", so a mil' short. Can you live with that? What about LMS 4-6-0 bogie wheelbases? The motor is a Romford 'Bulldog'. Very strong indeed! Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 40 minutes ago, Chris Knight said: Good afternoon Tony, As a member of the group with responsibility for "The Great Marquess" when it came to grief you will understand how immensely pleased to see her running again on LB looking in first class order - the sight has really made my day, and I will pass on the good news to the other culprits. I know it was a good few years ago Tony, but it was actually at Wolverhampton when breaking down and packing away after we had been giving her a run on 'Kensal Green' which made a nice change for us instead of all that copper engined stuff. Regards to yourself and Mo, who knows these days when our paths will cross again ! Chris K That's very kind Chris, Actually, I should have fixed her years ago. Anyway, apart from a bit of un-soldering, straightening some bits, re-soldering and patch-repainting/lining, it wasn't too difficult. I suppose it says a lot for 'battleship' chassis construction (one sixteenth brass!) that the mechanism was completely unscathed. Regards to you all, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 38 minutes ago, MarkC said: Hi Mick. In view of this development, are you still looking for a set of instructions? I have an A7 in the roundtuit pile; I can fish it out and send a copy of the instruction sheet if you do Cheers, Mark Yes please !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, micklner said: Yes please !! OK, no problem. Will find it this evening and send it on Mark 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Barry O said: I like the Blue A4.. very nice. Just repaired and sold a Green Hornby A4 (regauged back to 00 from Carlisle) But it shows how big the seams are on the casing - nearly as large as the Bachman Mk1 roof "Seams" compared to a Wills A4 which looks a lot better for the lack of seams.. I didn't build it or put the silly smokebox plate on.. I just made it work and sold it.... Baz Does the buyer of MERLIN know that it's got the wrong tender, Baz? For the period depicted, 60027 towed a 1935-style streamlined corridor tender (complete with extra strip at the bottom of the tank). She'd also lost her cabside worksplates by then. Interestingly, I'm building SILVER KING for Carlisle. Regards, Tony. Edited September 9, 2020 by Tony Wright to add something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecorbusier Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Andy, It's astonishing how the sums quickly add up. Add up to far more than expected. When WMRC took out Stoke Summit and Charwelton to shows, both layouts were insured for over £100,000,00 each! We always thought that those were 'conservative' estimates. I think what had to be taken into account was, say, in the event of a total loss, what had to be calculated was how much would it cost to ask a team of (highly-experienced) modellers to recreate the whole lot, to the same standard, including all the locos/stock? Given that one or two in the team were professional model-makers - a lot! I'm sure it's the case that most modellers (even where they have insurance) hopelessly undervalue what they've got. Regards, Tony. Value is such a curious concept. What is a model railway or a collection of stock worth? In some ways insurance is the most simple form of valuation - so long as it relates to replacement value .... ie what would the estimated costs be? But even here it starts to get complicated where irreplacable items are concerned .... items with a history/no longer available/the maker is no longer alive etc etc. Then of course we have the value as dictated by the market ... we all know that this is no real judge of intrinsic value - in fact values can fluctuate massively from week to week and things of real value become worthless over night! ... as an example my Uncle was an Artist and art is subject to the vaguries of fashion - so one decade his paintings would command high prices where as in the next or previous they became hard to sell at all - the paintings hadn't changed. Of course now that he no longer paints they are in limted supply and have become assets which can be traded. What about personal value or emotional investment. What a minefield! ....and of course money is such a narrow and silly way of defining value .... as they say about the money men - they know the cost/price of everything and the value of nothing (though I have met many who were extremely discerning, whilst at the same time being sanguine about the system within which they worked!). Hey Ho! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Steven B said: A list of models is a useful starting point as long as the family or executers knows it exists and where to find it! Putting an up-to-date copy every few months in an "incase I die" folder or envelope can make a bereaved families life less stressful. The chap who helped me write my will suggested writing a "Letter of Wishes" - it's not a legally binding document but can help executers/trustees to ensure any personal wishes are carried out. I my case, I included a section on my models, including contact details for two trusted modelling friends who would be able to assist in selling on my models after I'm gone. You can also use it to outline any special models that might have extra sentimental value to yourself should your family wish to keep any models. Likewise, if you store your stock on the layout or in stock-boxes then it can also help reunite models with their original boxes (assuming you've kept them). Steven B. Hi Steven I know I have said this before, when I can no longer model or play with the train set and I am in that box made of good baseboard material, if my family can raise enough money from my junk to be able to hire a skip to put the rest in good luck to them. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Andy, As far as I know they're identical. The only difference (if there is one) might be at the top front of the tender where, on the A4s, there's a sheet between it and the cab roof rear; not present on the (no more than five at any one time) A3s. I can't decide if those streamlined non-corridor tenders (which were 1937, not 1935) attached to A3s had a lower frontplate than when attached to A4s. If the master can’t see it then I’m happy to live without it! 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Didn't Hornby ever make the A3/streamlined non-corridor tender combination? They must have done, probably on one of their Flying Scotsmen - but they always command a premium. I enjoy mixing and matching and I have an opportunity for a cheap Miles Beevor from a friend at my model railway club and a couple of Hornby ‘Minorus’ in my ‘not yet commissioned‘ pile (they were very cheap for a while). I’ll have to work out what to do with an A4 loco and GNR tender after the mixing but that will be fun! Many thanks for your help. Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY@34F Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 19 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Mention of Wils kits on top of old Tri-ang mechanisms prompted me to dig out pictures of one example I still have. In the early-'70s, when the notion of building working mechanisms was still daunting to me, by building a Wills kit to go on top of a Tri-ang chassis at least one obtained a 'runner'. This old thing originally retained its Tr-ang wheels (with flangeless centre drivers!). I immediately considered myself a 'scale modeller' when later I bushed the chassis (including the gearwheel, which was Araldited in place on the axle!) and fitted Romford wheels; then, made Jamieson valve gear for it. When built, it had the Wills tender (beading on an A2 tender, with turn-ins at the front, no rivets and corridor tender width?). A few years later I built a DJH tender for it. My painting of it is 'of its day'. Despite still retaining its original XO4, it still sees service from time to time on LB. When I first built it, I used the dome provided (a 'banjo' type - Mr Roche, Oh dear!). The multiple valve regulator gear was scratch-built. As can be seen, down its 45+ years of existence it's been 'improved' piecemeal, but only up to a point. For my Crowood book, I used it as a comparison with a Bachmann A2 (which I detailed/renumbered/renamed). Quite a difference! Does anyone out there have examples of Tri-ang-powered pieces of antiquity? I did the same as you Tony . But I glued mine together , ugh , originally A.H. Peppercorn , but in later years rebuilt and soldered together , repainted and lined with HMRS transfers , proper dome , romfords and comet valve gear . Scratch built multiple valve regulator and re numbered / named 60533 Happy Knight , a grantham engine in my time . I'm not sure whether it's the correct tender , but that doesn't really bother me . I have tried to upload a photo but it doesn't look right to me . It won't enlarge I don't think . It's the reason I rare post any thing , 'cos something always goes wrong ... arrrgh 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) Good Afternoon Tony May I please ask your advice on a possible modification? I have a Hornby K1 No 62024. I am thinking of trying to convert it to the only K1/1 61997, at present I am only looking at photographs and have not gone down the route of purchasing an Isinglass Drawing of the class yet. I can see the rear end of the tender side panels are slightly different and the seems to be some kind of box next to the cab steps on the drivers side thats not on the K1/1 and a few differences along the running plate either side of the boiler I have no idea what this equipment is called, sand boxes?. Apart from that to the best of your knowledge are there any obvious issues that I have missed that would require further modifications to the K1. I know there is a K4 kit available but I am considering this option as the K1/1 is very close to the K1 and I probably have more chance in getting to the moon than building a tender engine locomotive kit. I hope you do not mind me asking. Best Regards David Edited September 9, 2020 by landscapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY@34F Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 47 minutes ago, ROY@34F said: I did the same as you Tony . But I glued mine together , ugh , originally A.H. Peppercorn , but in later years rebuilt and soldered together , repainted and lined with HMRS transfers , proper dome , romfords and comet valve gear . Scratch built multiple valve regulator and re numbered / named 60533 Happy Knight , a grantham engine in my time . I'm not sure whether it's the correct tender , but that doesn't really bother me . I have tried to upload a photo but it doesn't look right to me . It won't enlarge I don't think . It's the reason I rare post any thing , 'cos something always goes wrong ... arrrgh Sorry folks I even managed to get the wrong photo . This is my pro scale A3 . But I think I have managed to load Happy Knight . 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 7 hours ago, Headstock said: On another note, Bill Bedford has removed most of the products from his website, no more GC carriages for the foreseeable future! Sometimes I hate model railways. I'm hoping I got my order in before he pulled the plug! Thanks for the chivers van heads up on dimensions. I always hack the Kirks about in an effort to get buffer and body heights as close as possible. When I get it, I'll do my best. I must admit to being pretty puzzled by one or two of the CWNs for summer 1954 where I can't find a diagram to fit the twin or twins in the consist. It quotes a BT(5)-CL(2-5) twin which I can't seem to identify at all. There's also a BT(6)-CL(3-4) that I'm struggling to find also. Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted September 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Barry O said: I like the Blue A4.. very nice. Just repaired and sold a Green Hornby A4 (regauged back to 00 from Carlisle) But it shows how big the seams are on the casing - nearly as large as the Bachman Mk1 roof "Seams" compared to a Wills A4 which looks a lot better for the lack of seams.. I didn't build it or put the silly smokebox plate on.. I just made it work and sold it.... Baz That doesn't look like the Merlin that was running on the layout - that one has my frames and motion and the correct tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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