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Tony,

 

I am looking to model A3, 60046, Diamond Jubilee with her 1935 non corridor tender using Hornby parts. I’m thinking of taking the tender off an A4 (Miles Beevor). My question is, are the 1935 non-corridor tenders the same when coupled to an A3 as on an A4? They look the same to me, but I know that my powers of observation let me down from time to time, so I thought I’d check With the expert before I buy the A4.

 

Thanks

 

Andy

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

This is just a guess, Mick,

 

But it looks like a much-modified Tri-ang/Hornby A3 chassis; the slot beneath the motor accommodating the (plastic) motion support bracket and its being driven off the rear axle suggest this.............. 

 

It's obviously been re-wheeled with much smaller drivers. 

 

The coupled wheelbase for an A7 is 7' 3" + 7' + 3", which is exactly the same as an A3 (though whether the Tri-ang A3 chassis scales at this, I don't know. It might do, because they're certainly not the original Tri-ang 'rods). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

A3? 

interesting . I wonder if a current Hornby A3 chassis will fit ? There is a huge amount of internal space, so i will try and find one via ebay. I believe Gibson do the bearings for the axles. The Romford Driving  wheels fitted are the correct diameter as well , the bogie and pony wheels will be changed in due course.

 

Any suggestions welcome re material to make  for a seperate chassis for the front bogie, if I  end up using this chassis to secure the cylinder casting please .

 

Any ideas as to what make the fitted motor is  ? a 5 pole XO4 type. The magnet is very strong ,as it likes a steel screwdriver very much !!

 

Thanks for any further info.

 

Edited by micklner
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13 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I am looking to model A3, 60046, Diamond Jubilee with her 1935 non corridor tender using Hornby parts. I’m thinking of taking the tender off an A4 (Miles Beevor). My question is, are the 1935 non-corridor tenders the same when coupled to an A3 as on an A4? They look the same to me, but I know that my powers of observation let me down from time to time, so I thought I’d check With the expert before I buy the A4.

 

Thanks

 

Andy

Identical as far as I am aware , other than livery.

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon John,

 

What you need is a Hornby A4 with a double chimney, no valences and towing a 1928-style corridor tender. That's the one with a flat back, beading and a turn-in at the front of the tanks. 

 

Like this...........

 

701056410_60032onElizabethan.jpg.77d59701ff4b6b89aa2e1d8570eab1d0.jpg

 

60032.jpg.e4d73af05575df6c85b2b70e18b58501.jpg

 

I can't remember which manifestation this was originally, but I renumbered/renamed it to represent GANNET. I've since sold it on. 

 

Avoid the Railroad version (even if you won't be using the chassis). Though the loco body is fine, the tender is the too-fat one, originally made obese to accommodate the tender drive. 

 

This is what SIR NIGEL GRESLEY looked like (or a model of it) as first preserved in the late-'60s............

 

1326007324_SEFinecastA420.jpg.9bd44e4759cb42abe71382ae64a796b4.jpg

 

1727194686_SEFinecastA424.jpg.6027a9a61311892edbdbe3c5ed78443d.jpg

 

I built this from a SE Finecast kit (which Ian Rathbone painted - he's now repainting it to BR green). 

 

If your model is to represent the loco in this condition, you'll probably have to take off the front numberplate from the Hornby model. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that Tony, very much appreciated.

 

John

 

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It's the slot in the frames which made me think it was an A3, Tony,

 

Though both the Tri-ang A3 and the B12 shared the same chassis block (and the 'Hall' and the original 'Coronation').

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Those days when one size fitted all and a wheelbase that was close was " good enough".

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Good afternoon Tony,

 

As a member of the group with responsibility for "The Great Marquess" when it came to grief

you will understand how immensely pleased to see her running again on LB looking in first

class order - the sight has really made my day, and I will pass on the good news to the other

culprits. I know it was a good few years ago Tony, but it was actually at Wolverhampton when

breaking down and packing away after we had been giving her a run on 'Kensal Green' which

made a nice change for us instead of all that copper engined stuff.  Regards to yourself and

Mo, who knows these days when our paths will  cross again ! 

 

Chris K

 

 

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3 hours ago, micklner said:

Re the A7 disaster wreck shown yesterday. I have now recieved a full refund from the seller, and he doesnt wish for it to be returned.

 

In view of this the bin option is on hold for the moment.

 

Photos of the rtr chassis in case anyone has any idea what it might be. It has been cut to fit the body. The XO4 type  motor is 5 pole and runs well after repostioning the motor/gear gap and oiling. The gear has some wear on it from the earlier/previous spinning , at the moment it is turning ok.

 

It has etched rods fitted at 29mm spacing between each crankpin. I have no idea if this is correct for a A7, or if the rods are from the original kit. I havent been able to find the spacings so far ?

It needs a sub chassis added to the front end , this will look better and stop the cylinders turning from side to side under load. Any suggestions re the best  material and thickness to use . I am hoping to use plastic sheet if viable.

 

IMG_2128.JPG.ee222a1cf6d054fb853622ae295d04e5.JPGIMG_2129.JPG.557fb3f363bb1284becba70bec727f96.JPGfullsizeoutput_336d.jpeg.63f16c1eb96e7a568a759c0b11c0c450.jpegfullsizeoutput_336e.jpeg.74212df1bc70a5ee7bdb330983f29c32.jpeg

Hi Mick.

 

In view of this development, are you still looking for a set of instructions? I have an A7 in the roundtuit pile; I can fish it out and send a copy of the instruction sheet if you do :)

 

Cheers,

Mark

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4 hours ago, micklner said:

Re the A7 disaster wreck shown yesterday. I have now recieved a full refund from the seller, and he doesnt wish for it to be returned.

 

In view of this the bin option is on hold for the moment.

 

Photos of the rtr chassis in case anyone has any idea what it might be. It has been cut to fit the body. The XO4 type  motor is 5 pole and runs well after repostioning the motor/gear gap and oiling. The gear has some wear on it from the earlier/previous spinning , at the moment it is turning ok.

 

It has etched rods fitted at 29mm spacing between each crankpin. I have no idea if this is correct for a A7, or if the rods are from the original kit. I havent been able to find the spacings so far ?

It needs a sub chassis added to the front end , this will look better and stop the cylinders turning from side to side under load. Any suggestions re the best  material and thickness to use . I am hoping to use plastic sheet if viable.

 

IMG_2128.JPG.ee222a1cf6d054fb853622ae295d04e5.JPGIMG_2129.JPG.557fb3f363bb1284becba70bec727f96.JPGfullsizeoutput_336d.jpeg.63f16c1eb96e7a568a759c0b11c0c450.jpegfullsizeoutput_336e.jpeg.74212df1bc70a5ee7bdb330983f29c32.jpeg

Mick my A7 came with etched frames.. it has a D13 in  it though. The cab roof is a hefty piece of whitemetal. Cylinders (cast) fir into "slots" in the chassis etch. Slidebars are nickel silver. That one is a complete bodge!

Baz

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Wills Kits..

 

1091005728_WillsA2(1280x274).jpg.412f02c5bd478c44597d57425e48cf22.jpgBuilt by my late father. He did a nice job of it.. then I painted and lined it. I think it was a Triang chassis.

 

 

60745161_WillsFlatiron(1280x433).jpg.a31bcc4feadaf2aa3aee1ee9ca986d69.jpg

 

and of course my first ever kit. A wills Flatiron runs on a Jinty chassis albeit withRomford wheels. It has seen some use over the last 50 years..

 

How about GEM kits? they used Triang chassis

 

1644047869_QueenoftehBelgians.JPG.a6c5ecae21ec7b86099b6381da2b60a9.JPG

 

Queen of the Belgians on a B12 chassis .. hence it is far too tall!

 

and of course you could use Triang chassis for building (in this case Plasticard) bodies.. a GSWR Baltic tank

 

GSWR_Baltic.JPG.d467f473ae9b47ba189b5372e36cf58d.JPG

 

In addition a Princess chassis is spot on for a Furness Railway Baltic tank...so some of the Triang chassis may have not been exact for what they were used for but could be used for other things (other than the Flatiron all locos built by my late Father and most are  between 50 and 40 years old). 

 

Baz

 

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2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I am looking to model A3, 60046, Diamond Jubilee with her 1935 non corridor tender using Hornby parts. I’m thinking of taking the tender off an A4 (Miles Beevor). My question is, are the 1935 non-corridor tenders the same when coupled to an A3 as on an A4? They look the same to me, but I know that my powers of observation let me down from time to time, so I thought I’d check With the expert before I buy the A4.

 

Thanks

 

Andy

Andy,

 

As far as I know they're identical. The only difference (if there is one) might be at the top front of the tender where, on the A4s, there's a sheet between it and the cab roof rear; not present on the (no more than five at any one time) A3s.  I can't decide if those streamlined non-corridor tenders (which were 1937, not 1935) attached to A3s had a lower frontplate than when attached to A4s. 

 

Didn't Hornby ever make the A3/streamlined non-corridor tender combination? 

 

The A3s (and A1s) getting such tenders came about when their 1928 corridor tenders were attached to A4s (including FLYING SCOTSMAN's). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
to clarify a point
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I like the Blue A4.. very nice. Just repaired and sold a Green Hornby A4 (regauged back to 00 from Carlisle)

 

491724990_HornbMerlin3qtrfront.JPG.f1ebc3a9bc0e1b4ec70e5102db24b208.JPG

 

But it shows how big the seams are on the casing - nearly as large as the Bachman Mk1 roof "Seams" 

 

compared to a Wills A4

451758055_WillsA4SilverKing3qtrfront.JPG.8264e5df4af74f45bfad32e7041ee829.JPG

 

which looks a lot better for the lack of seams.. I didn't build it or put the silly smokebox plate on.. I just made it work and sold it....

 

Baz

Hornby A4 Merlin other side on.JPG

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1 hour ago, micklner said:

A3? 

interesting . I wonder if a current Hornby A3 chassis will fit ? There is a huge amount of internal space, so i will try and find one via ebay. I believe Gibson do the bearings for the axles. The Romford Driving  wheels fitted are the correct diameter as well , the bogie and pony wheels will be changed in due course.

 

Any suggestions welcome re material to make  for a seperate chassis for the front bogie, if I  end up using this chassis to secure the cylinder casting please .

 

Any ideas as to what make the fitted motor is  ? a 5 pole XO4 type. The magnet is very strong ,as it likes a steel screwdriver very much !!

 

Thanks for any further info.

 

Comet makes a range of bogies, Mick; sold separately.

 

The A7 had a bogie wheelbase of 6' 6". An A3 has a bogie wheelbase of 6' 3", so a mil' short. Can you live with that? 

 

What about LMS 4-6-0 bogie wheelbases? 

 

The motor is a Romford 'Bulldog'. Very strong indeed!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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40 minutes ago, Chris Knight said:

Good afternoon Tony,

 

As a member of the group with responsibility for "The Great Marquess" when it came to grief

you will understand how immensely pleased to see her running again on LB looking in first

class order - the sight has really made my day, and I will pass on the good news to the other

culprits. I know it was a good few years ago Tony, but it was actually at Wolverhampton when

breaking down and packing away after we had been giving her a run on 'Kensal Green' which

made a nice change for us instead of all that copper engined stuff.  Regards to yourself and

Mo, who knows these days when our paths will  cross again ! 

 

Chris K

 

 

That's very kind Chris,

 

Actually, I should have fixed her years ago. 

 

Anyway, apart from a bit of un-soldering, straightening some bits, re-soldering and patch-repainting/lining, it wasn't too difficult.

 

I suppose it says a lot for 'battleship' chassis construction (one sixteenth brass!) that the mechanism was completely unscathed.

 

Regards to you all,

 

Tony.  

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38 minutes ago, MarkC said:

Hi Mick.

 

In view of this development, are you still looking for a set of instructions? I have an A7 in the roundtuit pile; I can fish it out and send a copy of the instruction sheet if you do :)

 

Cheers,

Mark

Yes please !!

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21 minutes ago, Barry O said:

I like the Blue A4.. very nice. Just repaired and sold a Green Hornby A4 (regauged back to 00 from Carlisle)

 

491724990_HornbMerlin3qtrfront.JPG.f1ebc3a9bc0e1b4ec70e5102db24b208.JPG

 

But it shows how big the seams are on the casing - nearly as large as the Bachman Mk1 roof "Seams" 

 

compared to a Wills A4

451758055_WillsA4SilverKing3qtrfront.JPG.8264e5df4af74f45bfad32e7041ee829.JPG

 

which looks a lot better for the lack of seams.. I didn't build it or put the silly smokebox plate on.. I just made it work and sold it....

 

Baz

Hornby A4 Merlin other side on.JPG

Does the buyer of MERLIN know that it's got the wrong tender, Baz? 

 

For the period depicted, 60027 towed a 1935-style streamlined corridor tender (complete with extra strip at the bottom of the tank). She'd also lost her cabside worksplates by then.

 

Interestingly, I'm building SILVER KING for Carlisle.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Andy,

 

It's astonishing how the sums quickly add up. Add up to far more than expected.

 

When WMRC took out Stoke Summit and Charwelton to shows, both layouts were insured for over £100,000,00 each! We always thought that those were 'conservative' estimates. 

 

I think what had to be taken into account was, say, in the event of a total loss, what had to be calculated was how much would it cost to ask a team of (highly-experienced) modellers to recreate the whole lot, to the same standard, including all the locos/stock? Given that one or two in the team were professional model-makers - a lot! 

 

I'm sure it's the case that most modellers (even where they have insurance) hopelessly undervalue what they've got. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Value is such a curious concept.

 

What is a model railway or a collection of stock worth? In some ways insurance is the most simple form of valuation - so long as it relates to replacement value .... ie what would the estimated costs be? But even here it starts to get complicated where irreplacable items are concerned  .... items with a history/no longer available/the maker is no longer alive etc etc.

 

Then of course we have the value as dictated by the market ...  we all know that this is no real judge of intrinsic value - in fact values can fluctuate massively from week to week and things of real value become worthless over night! ... as an example my Uncle was an Artist and art is subject to the vaguries of fashion - so one decade his paintings would command high prices where as in the next or previous they became hard to sell at all - the paintings hadn't changed. Of course now that he no longer paints they are in limted supply and have become assets which can be traded.

 

What about personal value or emotional investment. What a minefield!

 

....and of course money is such a narrow and silly way of defining value .... as they say about the money men - they know the cost/price of everything and the value of nothing (though I have met many who were extremely discerning, whilst at the same time being sanguine about the system within which they worked!).

 

Hey Ho!

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3 hours ago, Steven B said:

 

A list of models is a useful starting point as long as the family or executers knows it exists and where to find it! Putting an up-to-date copy every few months in an "incase I die" folder or envelope can make a bereaved families life less stressful.

 

The chap who helped me write my will suggested writing a "Letter of Wishes" - it's not a legally binding document but can help executers/trustees to ensure any personal wishes are carried out. I my case, I included a section on my models, including contact details for two trusted modelling friends who would be able to assist in selling on my models after I'm gone. You can also use it to outline any special models that might have extra sentimental value to yourself should your family wish to keep any models.

 

Likewise, if you store your stock on the layout or in stock-boxes then it can also help reunite models with their original boxes (assuming you've kept them).

 

Steven B.

Hi Steven

 

I know I have said this before, when I can no longer model or play with the train set and I am in that box made of good baseboard material, if my family can raise enough money from my junk to be able to hire a skip to put the rest in good luck to them.

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Andy,

 

As far as I know they're identical. The only difference (if there is one) might be at the top front of the tender where, on the A4s, there's a sheet between it and the cab roof rear; not present on the (no more than five at any one time) A3s.  I can't decide if those streamlined non-corridor tenders (which were 1937, not 1935) attached to A3s had a lower frontplate than when attached to A4s. 
 

If the master can’t see it then I’m happy to live without it!

 

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Didn't Hornby ever make the A3/streamlined non-corridor tender combination? 

They must have done, probably on one of their Flying Scotsmen - but they always command a premium. I enjoy mixing and matching and I have an opportunity for a cheap Miles Beevor from a friend at my model railway club and a couple of Hornby ‘Minorus’  in my ‘not yet commissioned‘ pile (they were very cheap for a while).
 

I’ll have to work out what to do with an A4 loco and GNR tender after the mixing but that will be fun!

 

Many thanks for your help.

 

Andy

 

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19 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Mention of Wils kits on top of old Tri-ang mechanisms prompted me to dig out pictures of one example I still have. 

 

1509186423_A260532Wills.jpg.7d1a9b9278c702f3a07faaf4bb99d9ae.jpg

 

In the early-'70s, when the notion of building working mechanisms was still daunting to me, by building a Wills kit to go on top of a Tri-ang chassis at least one obtained a 'runner'. This old thing originally retained its Tr-ang wheels (with flangeless centre drivers!). I immediately considered myself a 'scale modeller' when later I bushed the chassis (including the gearwheel, which was Araldited in place on the axle!) and fitted Romford wheels; then, made Jamieson valve gear for it. When built, it had the Wills tender (beading on an A2 tender, with  turn-ins at the front, no rivets and corridor tender width?). A few years later I built a DJH tender for it. 

 

My painting of it is 'of its day'. 

 

1276250509_vans10fittedfreight60532.jpg.74f44ed57ae74c161553d43214c952b1.jpg

 

Despite still retaining its original XO4, it still sees service from time to time on LB. 

 

When I first built it, I used the dome provided (a 'banjo' type - Mr Roche, Oh dear!).  The multiple valve regulator gear was scratch-built. 

 

As can be seen, down its 45+ years of existence it's been 'improved' piecemeal, but only up to a point. 

 

505205789_6053860532A2s.jpg.81ee75b71b5cdc8f3e78080d4d6c2727.jpg

 

For my Crowood book, I used it as a comparison with a Bachmann A2 (which I detailed/renumbered/renamed). Quite a difference!

 

Does anyone out there have examples of Tri-ang-powered pieces of antiquity?

 

 

I did the same as you Tony . But I glued mine together , ugh , originally A.H. Peppercorn , but in later years rebuilt and soldered together , repainted and lined with HMRS transfers , proper dome , romfords and comet valve gear . Scratch built multiple valve regulator and re numbered / named 60533 Happy Knight , a grantham engine in my time . I'm not sure whether it's the correct tender , but that doesn't really bother me . 

I have tried to upload a photo but it doesn't look right to me . It won't enlarge I don't think .  It's the reason I rare post any thing , 'cos something always goes wrong ... arrrgh

P1010126.jpeg

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Good Afternoon Tony

 

May I please ask your advice on a possible modification?

 

I have a Hornby K1 No 62024.

 

I am thinking of trying to convert it to the only K1/1 61997, at present I am only looking at photographs and have not gone down the route of purchasing an Isinglass Drawing of the class yet.

 

I can see the rear end of the tender side panels are slightly different and the seems to be some kind of box next to the cab steps on the drivers side thats not on the K1/1 and a few differences along the running plate either side of the boiler I have no idea what this equipment is called, sand boxes?.

 

Apart from that to the best of your knowledge are there any obvious issues that I have missed that would require further modifications to the K1.

 

I know there is a K4 kit available but I am considering this option as the K1/1 is very close to the K1 and I probably have more chance in getting to the moon than building a tender engine locomotive kit.

 

I hope you do not mind me asking.

 

Best Regards

 

David

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47 minutes ago, ROY@34F said:

I did the same as you Tony . But I glued mine together , ugh , originally A.H. Peppercorn , but in later years rebuilt and soldered together , repainted and lined with HMRS transfers , proper dome , romfords and comet valve gear . Scratch built multiple valve regulator and re numbered / named 60533 Happy Knight , a grantham engine in my time . I'm not sure whether it's the correct tender , but that doesn't really bother me . 

I have tried to upload a photo but it doesn't look right to me . It won't enlarge I don't think .  It's the reason I rare post any thing , 'cos something always goes wrong ... arrrgh

P1010126.jpeg

Sorry folks I even managed to get the wrong photo . This is my pro scale A3 . But I think I have managed to load  Happy Knight .

HAPPY KNIGHT.jpg

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7 hours ago, Headstock said:

On another note, Bill Bedford has removed most of the products from his website, no more GC carriages for the foreseeable future! Sometimes I hate model railways.

I'm hoping I got my order in before he pulled the plug!

 

Thanks for the chivers van heads up on dimensions. I always hack the Kirks about in an effort to get buffer and body heights as close as possible. When I get it, I'll do my best.

 

I must admit to being pretty puzzled by one or two of the CWNs for summer 1954 where I can't find a diagram to fit the twin or twins in the consist. It quotes a BT(5)-CL(2-5) twin which I can't seem to identify at all. There's also a BT(6)-CL(3-4) that I'm struggling to find also. Any ideas?

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3 hours ago, Barry O said:

I like the Blue A4.. very nice. Just repaired and sold a Green Hornby A4 (regauged back to 00 from Carlisle)

 

491724990_HornbMerlin3qtrfront.JPG.f1ebc3a9bc0e1b4ec70e5102db24b208.JPG

 

But it shows how big the seams are on the casing - nearly as large as the Bachman Mk1 roof "Seams" 

 

compared to a Wills A4

451758055_WillsA4SilverKing3qtrfront.JPG.8264e5df4af74f45bfad32e7041ee829.JPG

 

which looks a lot better for the lack of seams.. I didn't build it or put the silly smokebox plate on.. I just made it work and sold it....

 

Baz

Hornby A4 Merlin other side on.JPG

That doesn't look like the Merlin that was running on the layout - that one has my frames and motion and the correct tender.

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