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Wright writes.....


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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

'I'm not totally sold on the unpredictability angle.  When talking to footplate crew it sounds like that, as they are picking a few anecdotes from across many years, Looking at observers records (observers make notes rather than spotters who cross things out) the norm was for the same locomotive to turn up on the same working day after day, there were exceptions, obviously and time and area can make a difference. Fitted freights between York and Woodford were pretty predictable for example. Ninety percent of the time it would be a York B16, occasionally a B1, V2 or a Thompson A2. The B16 is the one you should be modeling, representing the typical not the favourite the rare or the special.'

 

I think your points are valid, Andrew,

 

However, what if one were modelling the stretch of line just within the city walls at Chester? Say, between Canal Street Bridge and Crane Street? Not today (that would be awful), but go back just over 62 years to a summer Saturday in August 1958. Yes, I was there, as a 'spotter. And, underlined was a Crosti 9F on empty stock! Two B1s and countless 'unexpected' locos from all over the place, including 8Fs on excursions. Yes, I agree, one should model the most-typical, but 'most-typical' at Chester on a summer Saturday in the '50s was 'anything goes'!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

No argument with your statements. I am lucky in some ways in having a fictitious location my operating sessions can be the daily comings and goings or the delight of a summer Saturday with the residents of Sheffield going away for a week at such exotic locations like Blackpool or Cleethorpes. I have even had sessions where I have not filled the fiddle yards to their maximum capacity and I have kept the DMUs very short representing the decline leading up to closure.

 

What I do try to represent is the types of locomotives and DMUs that would have operated over the former L&YR lines crossing from one side of the Pennines to the other and the types that were at home on the GNR lines. I know I have made believe there are services to and from Grimbsy and Cleethorpes, and I don't have any GCR types but they do have LNER designed locos when steam is the order of the day. I also add a few North Eastern Region locos into the mix on the York and Leeds trains but B16s did tend to wander about a tad.

 

Sometimes the devil takes over and all of a sudden Exchange has imaginary OLE and 3rd rail or even Western Region diesels. Where is the fun in adhering to self imposed strict rules.  

 

I always have the right DMU for the right train in the right time frame.

 

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

My, doesn't this thread fly!

 

Many thanks for all the recent posts showing incredible examples of modelling. 

 

Yesterday, I spent my time with a camcorder getting moving footage of Retford. This is for the forthcoming BRM 'virtual exhibition' in November. Many thanks for your time and patience, Sandra (social distancing was not a problem!). The layout performed impeccably (and it wasn't just trains whizzing round). 

 

I also took the opportunity to get some more stills..............

 

673613696_Retford1392004A2.jpg.3e4d39c1c9b7659766c120d02f281bcd.jpg

 

Sandra is building locomotives for the layout. This will become BRONZINO when completed.

 

1304772467_Retford1392002D11.jpg.f5f3fd1189ff3577d7f22b0973affb36.jpg

 

Despite claims to the contrary, the little red-clad schoolboy is not a representation of me (my school uniform was dark blue). 

 

Class D11 62661 GERARD POWYS DEWHURST takes the road towards Gainsborough on a Sheffield-Lincoln service (please, note the lamp!). 

 

2100182882_Retford1392008B17.jpg.2ff6534856cdb2fb83f22e4f4de62f31.jpg

 

Class B17 61661 SHEFFIELD WEDNESDAY takes the North Country Continental boat train eastwards across the flat crossing (I only ever remember small-tender B17s on this). 

 

I know there are some wonderful 'made-up' layouts out there, depicting imaginary or might have been locations, but one can never beat 'the real thing' in my view.

 

Not when it's modelled as well as this!  

 

 

 

A pot of paint could soon make that uniform blue Tony.

 

If you wore your uniform on the platform at Retford, that could well become a young you!

 

Did you draw attention to the lamp on the D11 for a particular reason? Is it because of the very unusual handle, from side to side instead of front to back?

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3 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Bucoops,

 

there was quite a lot of variation in the LNER bogie brake vans, though there is a certain amount of linear development. The earlier ones had top lights to the double doors across a number of diagrams and a hooded ventilator above the guards doors. The ventilators were pressed steel like the duckets, as far as I recall, then painted to look like wood. Are you sure about the 54 door hinges, that sounds like a lot. I've recently done eighty on a twin, thats two carriages with a lot more doors than a BG.

 

I was looking at one of the bowstring Yorkie 56' 6'' type. It has the oval buffer heads as you mentioned earlier but the same early style top light arrangement, with a great big wooden headstock. I think the buffers  were a direct continuation of GN or ECJS practice, again a feature of the earliest diagrams. I will see if I have any photographs. Personally, I don't mind the sans duckett top light arrangement that you mention, highlighting variations works for me.

Without knowing which BG thiscrefers to 54 sounds about right with 3 hinges per door, a couple of sets of double doors for the luggage compartment, a gaurds door and 5 compartments that would do it.  When I etched the sides for some NBR 6 wheelers the number of doors on IIRC the luggage composite, amazed me.

 

Jamie

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19 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Without knowing which BG thiscrefers to 54 sounds about right with 3 hinges per door, a couple of sets of double doors for the luggage compartment, a gaurds door and 5 compartments that would do it.  When I etched the sides for some NBR 6 wheelers the number of doors on IIRC the luggage composite, amazed me.

 

Jamie

 

Afternoon Jamie,

 

I may be missing something but there only seems to be four doors per side with external door hinges. You can discount the Guards doors, both open inwards. Even if hinges are added to the gangway doors that is still short of 54. I suspect there is the possibility that B cups typed 54 instead of 24. I don't think many people add them to the gangway doors, that would be unhinged. Ho ho ho.

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6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

673613696_Retford1392004A2.jpg.3e4d39c1c9b7659766c120d02f281bcd.jpg

 

Sandra is building locomotives for the layout. This will become BRONZINO when completed.

 

 

Another Bronzino - I've often wondered why DJH didn't provide the parts to make the MLS regulator versions. I know they're possible to scratch build.

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1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Bucoops,

 

there was quite a lot of variation in the LNER bogie brake vans, though there is a certain amount of linear development. The earlier ones had top lights to the double doors across a number of diagrams and a hooded ventilator above the guards doors. The ventilators were pressed steel like the duckets, as far as I recall, then painted to look like wood. Are you sure about the 54 door hinges, that sounds like a lot. I've recently done eighty on a twin, thats two carriages with a lot more doors than a BG.

 

I was looking at one of the bowstring Yorkie 56' 6'' type. It has the oval buffer heads as you mentioned earlier but the same early style top light arrangement, with a great big wooden headstock. I think the buffers  were a direct continuation of GN or ECJS practice, again a feature of the earliest diagrams. I will see if I have any photographs. Personally, I don't mind the sans duckett top light arrangement that you mention, highlighting variations works for me.

 

 

Hi Andrew, no, I typo'd the hinge count it would seem. A mere 24 not 54. I still hate them though. I intend to spend some evenings trawling books for a D154. Else I think I shall have to go down the 111 route. Not giving up yet.

 

The buffers certainly seem to be a continuation of GN practice. I know some of the Quintet sets for the GE section also had the same heads - but without the retractable facility that the vestibuled coaches had. Others had plain round heads. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Afternoon Jamie,

 

I may be missing something but there only seems to be four doors per side with external door hinges. You can discount the Guards doors, both open inwards. Even if hinges are added to the gangway doors that is still short of 54. I suspect there is the possibility that B cups typed 54 instead of 24. I don't think many people add them to the gangway doors, that would be unhinged. Ho ho ho.

 

B Cups? I feel a right t*t now. Possibly a left one too ;)

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6 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Here's a question Tony.

 

From reading the above; if you had the chance to re-live your spotting experiences for one day, where would it be and when?  Would you prefer to experience a period before you were born?  As you and others have said before, the variety of traction and rolling stock in the days of steam was simply staggering compared to now (I was born in the 1970s, so missed it all....).

 

Rob

An easy question to answer, Rob.

 

Doncaster, on a weekday during the summer holidays in 1958. I'd just finished junior school and was anticipating 'big' school and my 12th birthday. 

 

Within ten minutes of getting on to the station, I'd seen 60024 (fresh from the Plant), 60027 (on the Down 'Lizzie), 60094 (waiting to go to the works, if memory serves), 60102 and 61212 light engines, 60111 on an Up express and 62722 coming in from Hull. That was after seeing 60008 and 70003 outside the paintshop! The rest of the day was just a marvellous blur..........

 

Oh to have had a camcorder and digital camera!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

A pot of paint could soon make that uniform blue Tony.

 

If you wore your uniform on the platform at Retford, that could well become a young you!

 

Did you draw attention to the lamp on the D11 for a particular reason? Is it because of the very unusual handle, from side to side instead of front to back?

The lamp was based on a picture during the loco's time on the CLC, so it's obviously the wrong pattern for Retford. 

 

And, no; I never wore my school uniform when 'spotting at Retford. It was only ever in the holidays............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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5 hours ago, Manxcat said:

Good Morning Tony,

 

Does the above mean that you still have your spotter's manuals from all those years ago? 

 

Archie

Unfortunately I don't Archie. However, I have a good memory.

 

All my hand-written 'spotter's notebooks (thankfully not my Ian Allan's) were chucked out by my mother when I went to teacher training college in 1967. She must have thought I'd grown up!

 

How wrong.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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25 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The lamp was based on a picture during the loco's time on the CLC, so it's obviously the wrong pattern for Retford. 

 

And, no; I never wore my school uniform when 'spotting at Retford. It was only ever in the holidays............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I don't know if the lamp is wrong. It just looked unusual.

 

It is a shame about the uniform but I am sure there must be a suitable figure available to be painted up as the young Tony Wright.

 

Perhaps Alan Buttler can do some digital magic and take the scan of you back 60 years.

 

Mind you, he scanned me once and I asked him to digitally remove a few years and a few pounds (make that a few stones) in weight.

 

He politely said something along the lines of he was good but couldn't work miracles!   

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2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I don't know if the lamp is wrong. It just looked unusual.

 

It is a shame about the uniform but I am sure there must be a suitable figure available to be painted up as the young Tony Wright.

 

Perhaps Alan Buttler can do some digital magic and take the scan of you back 60 years.

 

Mind you, he scanned me once and I asked him to digitally remove a few years and a few pounds (make that a few stones) in weight.

 

He politely said something along the lines of he was good but couldn't work miracles!   

It's probably incorrect, Tony.

 

Anyway, 'putting my money where my mouth is', I've ordered 100 lamps of the correct pattern from Dave Franks of LMS. I imagine they'll be gobbled up in no time on Retford, and I'll have to order more!

 

Several of the locos, particularly the older ones, don't have lamp brackets, so it might have to be a case of fixing the lamps in place with a dab of superglue, effectively making them 'permanent'. Since the likes of MERLIN is always on the 'Lizzie', that shouldn't be a problem. Where locos have brackets, a hole drilled in the lamps' bases with a tiny blob of Blu Tak should suffice.

 

I see hours of fun ahead!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited by Tony Wright
typo error
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12 minutes ago, micklner said:

How do you drill the holes Tony ? I am lucky, if i get two or even less out of ten successful attempts,  without the handle falling/snapping  off !! .

Assuming the lamps are white metal, Mick...................

 

Firstly, make sure the bases are filed flush. Then, make a 'dot' in the base, exactly in the middle, using a sharp scriber. This is essential. It can be done by hand-pressure. 

 

Then, using a pin vice, drill a pilot hole, lubricating the bit with spit. It must be a sharp bit, of small size. Finally, open out the hole with a bit a tiny bit greater in size than the lamp bracket. 

 

If a hole goes askew, plug with solder and try again. 

 

Also useful is a dictionary of profanity (a big one!) and a supply of plasters for when you puncture the ends of your fingers/thumb!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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17 minutes ago, micklner said:

How do you drill the holes Tony ? I am lucky, if i get two or even less out of ten successful attempts,  without the handle falling/snapping  off !! .

Hi Mick

 

I have been drilling a hole in the bottom of the small lamps from Lanarkshire Model Railways.

 

I use a sowing needle to make a small indent in the centre of the lamps base then use a 0.7 drill in a pin vice.


I some how I manage to hold the small lamp in my sausage fingers and just drill away, I tried using tweezers but the lamps just slipped and moved.
 

I usually manage to get about Five or Six out of Ten.

 

My  main problem is avoiding the drill bit going up through the top of the lamp.
 

Regards

 

David

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2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

 

Hi Andrew, no, I typo'd the hinge count it would seem. A mere 24 not 54. I still hate them though. I intend to spend some evenings trawling books for a D154. Else I think I shall have to go down the 111 route. Not giving up yet.

 

The buffers certainly seem to be a continuation of GN practice. I know some of the Quintet sets for the GE section also had the same heads - but without the retractable facility that the vestibuled coaches had. Others had plain round heads. 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

B Cups? I feel a right t*t now. Possibly a left one too ;)

 

Good evening Bucoops,

 

see what I did there. A mere 24 hinges, you big softy. I could zap those in an half an hour, if I had any solder. Did you hear that, rubbish supplier!

 

A set of etches arrived for a dia 45 BG though, they were posted after the solder. I will have to glue them together with cow gum.

Edited by Headstock
mention of dia 45
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My train spotting was on an over bridge between the disused station and the pit yard.

 

Taking numbers? Ever seen a West Hartlepool Q6? No chance. The 9Fs and WDs  (many already missing smokebox number plates )  had a thick mass of dirt/rust/grime over them.

 

It would appear that (according to the loco crews) you just found a loco in steam of the correct power rating and went off on your turn.

 

We did see J26s and J27s,  Met_Cam 4 car DMUS  (they had a buffet car), the odd EE Type 4 on sleepers and the only real "express" which came through (Colchester to Newcastle via rhe coast route? )

 

However..to meet with having the right loco for the right train in the right place  means you need only small number of locos..with some being duplicate named to act as a reserve... boring!!!

 

Baz

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1 hour ago, landscapes said:

Hi Mick

 

I have been drilling a hole in the bottom of the small lamps from Lanarkshire Model Railways.

 

I use a sowing needle to make a small indent in the centre of the lamps base then use a 0.7 drill in a pin vice.


I some how I manage to hold the small lamp in my sausage fingers and just drill away, I tried using tweezers but the lamps just slipped and moved.
 

I usually manage to get about Five or Six out of Ten.

 

My  main problem is avoiding the drill bit going up through the top of the lamp.
 

Regards

 

David

I was hoping that another method would be mentioned. I use the same method and it kills the fingers holding them tight.

 

 

Is there a reason why a small lead holefor the drill cant be cast in the base of the lamps, as they are made ??

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10 minutes ago, micklner said:

I was hoping that another method would be mentioned. I use the same method and it kills the fingers holding them tight.

 

 

Is there a reason why a small lead holefor the drill cant be cast in the base of the lamps, as they are made ??

 

Not that it matters if you already have the lamps but the 3D printed lamps produced by Modelu, have a hole in the base that makes for very easy mounting on a lamp iron, even the fairly chunky plastic irons on RTR rolling stock.

 

John

 

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Friend, Geoff West visited today..............

 

Bringing with him a couple of locos.

 

60007.jpg.bdc2a9a31bcca0a53912aa8f8c501565.jpg

 

This extremely powerful SE Finecast A4 was built/part-painted by the late Geoff Brewin. I finished it off and Geoff (W) has added a touch of weathering. I sold it to Geoff (W) from Geoff Brewin's estate. 

 

It'll be interesting to see what my 60007 looks like when Ian Rathbone has painted it. 

 

92037.jpg.a40229c9637107faa1baff0f7181672e.jpg

 

He also brought this DJH 9F which I sold to him on behalf of John Houlden (after John 'graduated' to O Gauge). 

 

92037 must obviously be a popular prototype, because I have a model of it...................

 

501618511_DJH9F9203703.jpg.e8bd3cc74dff14d7e926613b677309a3.jpg

 

I acquired this DJH example from Robert Carroll (in a swop for a Bachmann one - this one didn't like some of Robert's points). Builder unknown, but it was painted by Larry Goddard. I asked Geoff Haynes to weather it, after I'd added some details. John had altered the 1F tender on his to make the cut-out at the rear smaller. DJH's is too deep. 

 

And the real thing.

 

913658391_920371950sRetford.jpg.3010511c258f5f97a642361249d1ed9c.jpg

 

At Retford, in the '50s. 

 

Am I with the 'spotters to the left? I could be! 

 

I did say I'd have a go at making some telegraph poles! 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

fixing the lamps in place with a dab of superglue, effectively making them 'permanent'.

That's the best way if the loco is always going to work the same class of train with the same end leading.

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13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Within ten minutes of getting on to the station, I'd seen 60024 (fresh from the Plant), 60027 (on the Down 'Lizzie), 60094 (waiting to go to the works, if memory serves), 60102 and 61212 light engines, 60111 on an Up express and 62722 coming in from Hull. That was after seeing 60008 and 70003 outside the paintshop! The rest of the day was just a marvellous blur..........

 

Oh to have had a camcorder and digital camera!

 

 

Or even better, a Time-Machine......

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