Tony Wright Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, St Enodoc said: To be absolutely frank, I'd rather see an overscale Springside lamp than that awful LED tail lamp. I assume it's the one I posted pictures of, John, I think it's sold as a bit of a 'gimmick', really. Something to appeal to younger modellers? The lad I gave the illuminated brake van to was delighted with it. It might be 'awful' to you (and I'd never use it), but doesn't such a thing 'have its place'? Even if only to encourage the young? Regards, Tony. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Tony Wright said: I assume it's the one I posted pictures of, John, I think it's sold as a bit of a 'gimmick', really. Something to appeal to younger modellers? The lad I gave the illuminated brake van to was delighted with it. It might be 'awful' to you (and I'd never use it), but doesn't such a thing 'have its place'? Even if only to encourage the young? Regards, Tony. Yes, Tony, the brake van. I agree. As a gimmick or something with "play value" it has a place, along with smoke units (and DCC sound), but I didn't see it as making much of a contribution to the discussion on lamps/no lamps on scale(ish) models. I'll stick with my Springsides that, where they need to be removable, have (or will have in due course) embedded micromagnets to hold them on the steel staple brackets. This loco has one steel bracket at each end and one lamp with a magnet embedded in the side. The spare lamp is permanently glued to its bracket. The only real incongruity is that when looking from the "bracket side" (5th photo) the bracket shows up black against the white of the lamp. I can live with that. I haven't fitted any lamps to the brake van at all yet though! 13 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2020 36 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: I've just started taking pictures of Hornby's latest large Prairie................. Not having conducted any research yet (and in a plea for assistance), is this a post-War manifestation? Or pre-War? I took this one out of its box, and the roof promptly fell off! A friend's just bought one, and a driving wheel fell off his!!!!! Same question; pre- or post-War? Both of these run beautifully on my test track , and this afternoon I'll take some moving footage of them on LB. Livery indicates the top one is, I believe, pre 1934 lettering/route restriction disc placing and the lower is post 1946. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2020 43 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: I don't have any pictures of the previous Hornby 51XX/61XX Classes (were they ex-Arfix?), but I didn't know that the central 'strap' on the boiler stood proud. On ones I've built, I've soldered it flush. You did take this picture, Tony: This is the Airfix body on a Comet chassis. The body also has parts of the Kitmaster/Airifx/Dapol kit, mainly the steps, which had broken off the body. The central strap should be flush, I think. Al 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 33 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: (and DCC sound), Pardon, I didn't quite hear that. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Thanks to the information I got in this thread yesterday, the last wagon in my scrap train is now suitable equipped although in close up, it really needs to be dusted, vacuum pipe yet to be fitted... 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: I've just started taking pictures of Hornby's latest large Prairie................. Not having conducted any research yet (and in a plea for assistance), is this a post-War manifestation? Or pre-War? I took this one out of its box, and the roof promptly fell off! A friend's just bought one, and a driving wheel fell off his!!!!! Same question; pre- or post-War? Both of these run beautifully on my test track , and this afternoon I'll take some moving footage of them on LB. I don't have any pictures of the previous Hornby 51XX/61XX Classes (were they ex-Arfix?), but I didn't know that the central 'strap' on the boiler stood proud. On ones I've built, I've soldered it flush. 61XXs (Wills/SEF kits) have appeared on Little Bytham before....................... A very good runner this one.................... Note, the central strap flush. As per @Richard Eref the livery queries. The boiler strap should be flush. Was it the whole roof that came off or just the sliding vent? The BR version I’ve got has been superb, there’s a few notes on them here that may help when looking at the GW livery Hornby-61xx-r3723-review/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarrMan Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Richard E said: Livery indicates the top one is, I believe, pre 1934 lettering/route restriction disc placing and the lower is post 1946. I agree with that. 6110 was built 08/1931 and is in the as built livery. 4154 was not built until 7/1947, and is also in the as built livery. I wonder how long before it was repainted to BR livery? Re the boiler strap, looking at the photos in Russell, The boiler strap is definitely proud, but you should not be able to see light between in and the boiler! It also looks too chunky to me, but I do not have any dimensions for it. Lloyd 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, FarrMan said: I agree with that. 6110 was built 08/1931 and is in the as built livery. 4154 was not built until 7/1947, and is also in the as built livery. I wonder how long before it was repainted to BR livery? Re the boiler strap, looking at the photos in Russell, The boiler strap is definitely proud, but you should not be able to see light between in and the boiler! It also looks too chunky to me, but I do not have any dimensions for it. Lloyd I think the ones outshopped immediately after nationalization were finished as per the last GWR locos, but with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tanksides in GWR-style lettering of the earlier model pictured. As for actual repainting into BR (black), they'd have been well down in the list of priorities behind older locos in greater need. I'd expect most built post-war to have waited until their first general repair if the original finish held up (Swindon, once it ceased to have a dedicated paint shop, was fairly notorious for not using a gallon of paint if a quart would cover). John Edited September 16, 2020 by Dunsignalling 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarrMan Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, FarrMan said: Re the boiler strap, looking at the photos in Russell, The boiler strap is definitely proud, but you should not be able to see light between in and the boiler! It also looks too chunky to me, but I do not have any dimensions for it. That 'boiler strap' does not appear to be a boiler strap at all. Looking at http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-prairies.html about a third of the way down, there is a photo of 5120 which shows it quite clearly to be a substantial strap in line with the fronts of the side tanks. It looks clearly to be rectangular cross section. Would it be to hold the front of the tanks in place? Scaling off the copy of the official diagram in Russell, the width of the strap should be app 6" (2mm) but the thickness is too small to measure, certainly no more than 1" and probably more like 0.5". Lloyd 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Photos on Flickr suggest it is a strap that is bolted to the top of the tanks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 5 hours ago, PMP said: As per @Richard Eref the livery queries. The boiler strap should be flush. Was it the whole roof that came off or just the sliding vent? The BR version I’ve got has been superb, there’s a few notes on them here that may help when looking at the GW livery Hornby-61xx-r3723-review/ Many thanks, Paul, The whole roof came off. It's now glued back in place. Both look good and both run superbly. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 16, 2020 Author Share Posted September 16, 2020 Many thanks for all the comments on the pair of Prairies. Though I have sources (Russell/Irwell/Ian Allan/RCTS and others), my knowledge has expanded considerably. I should be able now to write a more-informed review. Thanks again to you all....... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: The whole roof came off. It's now glued back in place. The good thing about that happening is it's easy to add the crew then. Glad to see BRM are doing a review as I'd thought they'd forgot about the release and I'll be interested in your candid views Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2020 I would still like a late 80s 61xx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 7 hours ago, Tony Wright said: I've just started taking pictures of Hornby's latest large Prairie................. Not having conducted any research yet (and in a plea for assistance), is this a post-War manifestation? Or pre-War? I took this one out of its box, and the roof promptly fell off! A friend's just bought one, and a driving wheel fell off his!!!!! Same question; pre- or post-War? Both of these run beautifully on my test track , and this afternoon I'll take some moving footage of them on LB. I don't have any pictures of the previous Hornby 51XX/61XX Classes (were they ex-Arfix?), but I didn't know that the central 'strap' on the boiler stood proud. On ones I've built, I've soldered it flush. 61XXs (Wills/SEF kits) have appeared on Little Bytham before....................... A very good runner this one.................... Note, the central strap flush. Tony, That last one, number 6132 the Wills kit, is mine, I bought it ready built but without a motor for £10 at the Scalefour Bring and Buy stand at Leatherhead many years ago. I put it in paint stripper to remove the grotty paint finish and it promptly fell apart, it had been glued together. So I soldered it all back together again. ”Great Western” on the side tanks is of course before 1934. “GWR” was during the war and post war. The previous 41XX/61XX was ex Airfix, in fact I believe it was the very first of the better models which challenged the previous rather poor Hornby and before that Triang models. I also think it was rather boring of Hornby to model this version of the prairie tank. It would have been more interesting to models the earlier 31XX and the many derivatives of the type. Particularly those with the high cab roofs and straight frames. I don’t think the strap over the boiler should stand proud I think it’s more accurate on the Wills kit. Obviously the new Hornby loco is a much better model but I don’t think it has the character of the ancient Wills kit which with all its faults is at least unique and has its own special history. I won’t be converting it to EM gauge and it certainly won’t appear on Retford. Sandra 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 Another large Prairie at Little Bytham about 6 years ago. The old Hornby ex Airfix one. Weathered by moi. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2020 On 13/09/2020 at 14:11, Woodcock29 said: As I said earlier, yesterday we had a showing of a new exhibition layout called Spirsby built here in Adelaide by my mate Gavin. He has built the layout and I have supplied all the stock plus the GN somersault signals, signal box (still to be completed), yard crane and 3-D printed GN station fence posts and seats. Whilst there are some details to be finished off on the layout its mostly finished. The track plan is based on that on the ordinance survey plan. Its a country branch terminus to fiddle yard L shaped layout. To give the yard operator something more to do a loco depot has been built adjacent to the storage sidings. Here are a few photos. Some of the locos and a lot of the goods stock still need weathering. In the background of some of the photos you can also see glimpses of Gavin's Great Moor Street layout. Andrew Beautiful - as others have said, really characterful! 3 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2020 On 15/09/2020 at 11:21, SP Steve said: Sorry for taking up room on your thread Tony but as it's LNER then I hope I'm excused! Having earlier posted re: making up the height deficiency for a Chivers D120 brake van, here's the side after having the window details re-instated. I've made an attempt to depict one or two of the pivoted top lights being open - I think these were only found on the D120 versions, the later types having fixed non-opening windows instead. That's superb! I'd looked at those pivoted top lights and wondered about modelling them too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Chas Levin said: Beautiful - as others have said, really characterful! That's down to Gav's skill in making layouts look exceedingly realistic. Everything blends in really well. Andrew 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 7 hours ago, Woodcock29 said: That's down to Gav's skill in making layouts look exceedingly realistic. Everything blends in really well. Andrew Hi I totally agree with the other comments your layout is very impressive indeed. My layout Haymarket also has a large engine shed, may I ask how you fixed the large wooden doors to each road in the building Haymarket’s she’d building had the same detail on it’s West elevation Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2020 13 hours ago, FarrMan said: That 'boiler strap' does not appear to be a boiler strap at all. Looking at http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-prairies.html about a third of the way down, there is a photo of 5120 which shows it quite clearly to be a substantial strap in line with the fronts of the side tanks. It looks clearly to be rectangular cross section. Would it be to hold the front of the tanks in place? Scaling off the copy of the official diagram in Russell, the width of the strap should be app 6" (2mm) but the thickness is too small to measure, certainly no more than 1" and probably more like 0.5". Lloyd The strap isn't on the boiler, it holds the tanks together and just passes over the boiler cladding. There was usually only a small gap under it but sometimes it could be bigger - this model does look excessive though. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 17, 2020 11 hours ago, Tony Wright said: The whole roof came off. It's now glued back in place. There are endless complaints about RTR tank locos around the forum saying "I can't get into the cab of my new xxxx to fit the crew" 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 10 hours ago, sandra said: Tony, That last one, number 6132 the Wills kit, is mine, I bought it ready built but without a motor for £10 at the Scalefour Bring and Buy stand at Leatherhead many years ago. I put it in paint stripper to remove the grotty paint finish and it promptly fell apart, it had been glued together. So I soldered it all back together again. ”Great Western” on the side tanks is of course before 1934. “GWR” was during the war and post war. The previous 41XX/61XX was ex Airfix, in fact I believe it was the very first of the better models which challenged the previous rather poor Hornby and before that Triang models. I also think it was rather boring of Hornby to model this version of the prairie tank. It would have been more interesting to models the earlier 31XX and the many derivatives of the type. Particularly those with the high cab roofs and straight frames. I don’t think the strap over the boiler should stand proud I think it’s more accurate on the Wills kit. Obviously the new Hornby loco is a much better model but I don’t think it has the character of the ancient Wills kit which with all its faults is at least unique and has its own special history. I won’t be converting it to EM gauge and it certainly won’t appear on Retford. Sandra It's interesting your comments regarding 'character', Sandra. Interesting, because my view is exactly the same (not interesting to anyone else, I'm sure). In a way, this is a curious paradox. With respect to your 61XX, as you say, the latest Hornby manifestation is a far better model. It's crisp, accurate, runs superbly (that's not to say the kit-built one doesn't) and has the correct crankpin position (giving the characteristic GWR 30" throw). It's only more-recently that the likes of Markits' GWR bespoke GWR drivers have this (no Romfords ever did), which so gives that GWR long piston stroke in motion effect; beautiful in fact. Just glancing through the latest RM, the Hornby 61XXs are around £125.00 brand new (more or less). What price a current SE Finecast kit, plus all the wheels and a motor/gearbox unit as sweet as Hornby's? What's the term? A 'no-brainer'? But is it? It's been said so many times before, but anyone can have an RTR loco (or anything) as long as they have the money to pay for it. Give or take, it'll be identical to every other one. Granted, it can be personalised (were the new Prairies mine, the first job would be to fix etched 'plates), weathered and so on, and there is great merit in that (as long as its personal and not just farmed-out). But, there's just something about a loco that has been built (or rebuilt) by oneself. One takes full responsibility for what it looks like and, more importantly in my book, how it runs. It might not be as good as the latest piece of RTR wonderment, and (if the kit is bought new with all that's needed to complete it) it'll be more expensive. The RTR one is egalitarian, the kit-built one is exclusive. Is that what I'm trying to say? Regards, Tony. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 3rd Rail Exile Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2020 13 hours ago, FarrMan said: That 'boiler strap' does not appear to be a boiler strap at all. Looking at http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-prairies.html about a third of the way down, there is a photo of 5120 which shows it quite clearly to be a substantial strap in line with the fronts of the side tanks. It looks clearly to be rectangular cross section. Would it be to hold the front of the tanks in place? Scaling off the copy of the official diagram in Russell, the width of the strap should be app 6" (2mm) but the thickness is too small to measure, certainly no more than 1" and probably more like 0.5". Lloyd 35 minutes ago, Michael Edge said: The strap isn't on the boiler, it holds the tanks together and just passes over the boiler cladding. There was usually only a small gap under it but sometimes it could be bigger - this model does look excessive though. The photo two thirds of the way down the same reference linked to by @FarrMan, captioned "Tanktop detail on 5164. (Alresford, 2013)" is useful, though being in preservation (and "off-region"!) is there a chance that the detail is no longer "authentic"? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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