Wright writes.....

[JamieR4489]

20 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

but has anyone ever tried to remove it?

T-Cut removed the factory weathering on my Black 5 and gave it a very pleasing shine, although compared to that 14XX, the weathering was quite light.

 

I think microsol was suggested to me by someone as well.

[PMP]

34 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

A couple of questions, if I may? 

 

Did any of the ex-GWR 0-4-2Ts ever run in unlined green at the end of their lives?

 

 

Or, a complete repaint, because it's a lovely model underneath?

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

 

 

I think a couple ran in unlined green, not got books to hand to look. 
Re the weathering that looks like Hattons standard weathering for their production run. It’s likely to be acrylic, and may be removable depending on if it’s a solvent or water based acrylic. 
 

If you have any IPA try a tiny bit on a cotton bud in a discreet area to see if it comes off. If not retry with Vallejo thinners, and work your way through what you have. It may be that T-Cut will remove it, but that can also remove the underlying markings. If you’re changing the identity, the cab side plates can be removed and modelmasters plates fit over the recess the RTR plates fit in. If you’re retaining the coupling rods the paint can be removed using cellulose giving a far better appearance to the rods than the painted original.

Some notes here https://hattons-14xx-finale which may be of use.

Edited September 18, 2020 by PMP

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

A couple of questions, if I may? 

 

Did any of the ex-GWR 0-4-2Ts ever run in unlined green at the end of their lives?

 

And, what can be done about this?

 

 

It belongs to a friend, and it's a Hatton's 14XX (made by DJ Models for the retailer?). My friend paid over £150.00 for it, new. 

 

This heavily-weathered example was all that was left, and he doesn't like the weathering (neither do I; I think it's un-subtle, and since when did chimneys leak limescale from their bases?). 

 

I have no idea how the weathering was applied (dirty thinners via an airbrush?), but has anyone ever tried to remove it? I don't know whether it's enamel or acrylic. Any ideas on how to shift it, please?

 

Or, a complete repaint, because it's a lovely model underneath?

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

 

 

TBH, most I remember seeing in the sixties were so filthy it was hard to tell if they were black or green, let alone if there was any lining present. Very like the model illustrated but for that weird stuff around the chimney. 

 

Things like Prairies, Moguls (and BR3 prairies for that matter) received unlined green at late overhauls, but I do wonder if, by then, overhauls to 14xx were still happening.

 

John

Edited September 18, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Tony Wright]

15 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

TBH, most I remember seeing in the sixties were so filthy it was hard to tell if they were black or green, let alone if there was any lining present. Very like the model illustrated but for that weird stuff around the chimney. 

 

Things like Prairies, Moguls (and BR3 prairies for that matter) received unlined green at late overhauls, but I do wonder if, by then, overhauls to 14xx were still happening.

 

John

Many thanks, John (and to all the others who've replied).

 

A friend has emailed me saying that 1409, 1420, 1424 and 1454 received un-lined green at their last repaint, though some retained black, both plain and lined.

 

I agree that many locos displayed BR 'standard grime' towards the end of their lives, but the front numberplate could usually be read. This is just obliterated. When I compare the weathering on this loco with that done by the true 'masters of the craft' (the likes of Tom Foster), it's just awful in my view - just a blast of dirty thinners! This seems to be the way with much of the 'factory-finished' weathering - just thinned-down mud-brown squirted at the lower regions, often revealing a 'shadow' on the wheels where the rods have been when it was applied.

 

This Hornby 01 started out as just described...............

 

 

As a starting point for weathering, I thought it was OK, so just took it a stage or two further with dry-brushing (after renumbering it). 

 

This Bachmann 9F arrived 'weathered'. 

 

 

I also took this a stage further (though I forgot to address the 'shadows' on the drivers!).

 

I think the factory-finished RTR weathering might be OK as a starting point, especially when it's well-applied........

 

 

As on this Hornby Sentinel. 

 

Of course, some firms offer a bespoke weathering service, which is often excellent.

 

 

This trio of Bachmann cement wagons weathered by Lord and Butler 'Dirty Boy'  proves this.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[jwealleans]

Another vote for Microsol to remove factory weathering although it's tenacious stuff.

[landscapes]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

A couple of questions, if I may? 

 

Did any of the ex-GWR 0-4-2Ts ever run in unlined green at the end of their lives?

 

And, what can be done about this?

 

 

It belongs to a friend, and it's a Hatton's 14XX (made by DJ Models for the retailer?). My friend paid over £150.00 for it, new. 

 

This heavily-weathered example was all that was left, and he doesn't like the weathering (neither do I; I think it's un-subtle, and since when did chimneys leak limescale from their bases?). 

 

I have no idea how the weathering was applied (dirty thinners via an airbrush?), but has anyone ever tried to remove it? I don't know whether it's enamel or acrylic. Any ideas on how to shift it, please?

 

Or, a complete repaint, because it's a lovely model underneath?

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

 

 

Hi Tony

 

I have quite a few coloured photos of the 14XX class and as someone has already commented most times it's difficult to see if it's green or Black livery.

 

This photo certainly looks green and as far as I can see it has no lining but it may be just very dirty as there is quite a bit of shadow on the tank.

 

Regards

 

David

Edited September 18, 2020 by landscapes

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, landscapes said:

Hi Tony

 

I have quite a few coloured photos of the 14XX class and as someone has already commented most times it's difficult to see if it's green or Black livery.

 

This photo certainly looks green and as far as I can see it has no lining but it may be just very dirty as there is quite a bit of shadow on the tank.

 

Regards

 

David

 

IMHO, if this loco had lining it would be visible in this photo - given the time that must have been spent cleaning the tanks to reveal the 'cycling lion' so clearly.

 

John Isherwood.

[PMP]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Many thanks, John (and to all the others who've replied).

 

A friend has emailed me saying that 1409, 1420, 1424 and 1454 received un-lined green at their last repaint, though some retained black, both plain and lined.

(Snip)

 

Tony.  

1424 had late crest and no lining at the end, a book has an image of it on the Chalford turn in filthy plain green, date to follow. The pic of 1454 is green, the same image appears in a book with a lighter exposure clearly shows green. 1420 Is interesting, it was in full lined green and very good condition in 1959, so it would seem odd to get a full repaint, from a tidy locomotive so close to end of play.

Edited September 18, 2020 by PMP
Addition

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, landscapes said:

Hi Tony

 

I have quite a few coloured photos of the 14XX class and as someone has already commented most times it's difficult to see if it's green or Black livery.

 

This photo certainly looks green and as far as I can see it has no lining but it may be just very dirty as there is quite a bit of shadow on the tank.

 

Regards

 

David

I saved it and lightened it up.

 

Loco definitely green but, the lightening made the coach look pink so I'm guessing it was deliberately printed dark.

 

John

[FarrMan]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Did any of the ex-GWR 0-4-2Ts ever run in unlined green at the end of their lives?

 

Tony

 

According to Vol 3 of Peto's Registers, 1424 & 1454 were painted unlined green in early 1957. 1458 was painted in lined green a month later. It also states that a few of the last repaints during the early 1960's were in unlined green.

 

1432 received a Heavy General from Stafford Road works 26/11/58, and Light Casuals from Oswestry works 4/2/60, 13/4/61, and 18/5/62 before being withdrawn 27/7/63 and cut up 2 months later. It was allocated to Oswestry continually from April 1941 to withdrawal.

 

Lloyd

[FarrMan]

2 minutes ago, FarrMan said:

 

Tony

 

According to Vol 3 of Peto's Registers, 1424 & 1454 were painted unlined green in early 1957. 1458 was painted in lined green a month later. It also states that a few of the last repaints during the early 1960's were in unlined green.

 

1432 received a Heavy General from Stafford Road works 26/11/58, and Light Casuals from Oswestry works 4/2/60, 13/4/61, and 18/5/62 before being withdrawn 27/7/63 and cut up 2 months later. It was allocated to Oswestry continually from April 1941 to withdrawal.

 

Lloyd

 

I have also noted that there are a couple of photos of 1432 in Peto. On p68 taken on 28/8/1952, still lettered GWR, unlined, and on p29 taken on 19/8/1959 (i.e. after last Heavy general) again clearly unlined.

 

Lloyd

[richard i]

18 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I saved it and lightened it up.

 

Loco definitely green but, the lightening made the coach look pink so I'm guessing it was deliberately printed dark.

 

John

Can you, (one), selectively lighten it so the coach stays a truer colour?

richard 

[cctransuk]

15 minutes ago, richard i said:

Can you, (one), selectively lighten it so the coach stays a truer colour?

richard 

 

Not sure why one would wish to do so - the photo appears, to my eyes at least, to be a true representation of BR loco green that has been very dirty, but has been fairly effectively cleaned.

 

To lighten the green would not produce a more accurate representation of what the photographer saw.

 

John isherwood.

[PMP]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

.

I think the factory-finished RTR weathering might be OK as a starting point, especially when it's well-applied........

 

 

As on this Hornby Sentinel. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

The RTR weathering varies from batch to batch, there was one release of a  9F sometimes referred to as. Cadbury’s 9F as the weathering was so uniformly heavy it looked like they had been dunked in milk chocolate. I’ve got one on the shelf of doom to complete.

The Sentinels above in my experience aren’t too bad, here’s two that have been unweathered, laser glazed, and then lightly weathered.

 

Removal was a mix of T-Cut, and Tamiya thinners. It’s worth mentioning not to get any solvents of any of the brands on the factory glazing, you can often get a chemical reaction where the plastic fogs.

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I saved it and lightened it up.

 

Loco definitely green but, the lightening made the coach look pink so I'm guessing it was deliberately printed dark.

 

John

And the station 'sausage' totem looks ER blue, yet it's Yatton!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Theakerr]

I came across this video a while back because I had watched some good stuff from Belfast Jack on Vimeo.   Now on U-tube in 'HD' it has some superb shots of Kings Cross and surrounds.  Note, if someone else has posted this video and i missed it I apologize for 'double posting'

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, richard i said:

Can you, (one), selectively lighten it so the coach stays a truer colour?

richard 

Not with the software I have. and probably not with the jpeg format of the photo as posted. The coach is heading for pinkness even in the un-lightened photo, and BR crimson tended to fade in that direction so it's probably not inaccurate.

 

It's also (presumably) a scan from a 35mm slide, moving us at least one more generation away from the original image. If the slide scanned from was a copy of the original, that introduces another level of degradation, as there's always some loss when copying, however carefully it is done. 

 

If the image were a RAW file (which it clearly can't be), or one had an original negative to scan from, there might be a chance of conducting such post-processing.

 

At my level of understanding of the subject, and using the image as presented, I'd say any manipulation will introduce some unwanted side-effect.   

 

Attached is the best I could do with it. However, comparing the colour with the coach on the right, and the buffer beam of the loco, I'd say the auto-trailer really was that faded.

 

John

Edited September 19, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

And the station 'sausage' totem looks ER blue, yet it's Yatton!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Yes, looks like one of those weird effects that came free with some slide film or has crept in as the original aged.

 

Failing that, it might be a strong reflection of light bouncing off the shiny green loco onto the shiny brown sign.....

 

John

Edited September 19, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, Theakerr said:

I came across this video a while back because I had watched some good stuff from Belfast Jack on Vimeo.   Now on U-tube in 'HD' it has some superb shots of Kings Cross and surrounds.  Note, if someone else has posted this video and i missed it I apologize for 'double posting'

 

 

I think it has been posted before, but it's nonetheless worth seeing again.

 

Interestingly, the two prestige trains I can identify are hauled by A3s (still with single chimneys) - the 'Queen of Scots' (4.34) and 'The Talisman' (6.39).

 

Great stuff! Thanks for showing us.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Anglian]

9 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

At my level of understanding of the subject, and using the image as presented, I'd say any manipulation will introduce some unwanted side-effect. 

 

John

 

If the digital file is corrected by a professional who knows what they are doing there won't be unwanted side effects. Individual areas can be altered without effecting other parts of the image. However, such an approach can be very time consuming and there has to be a strong understanding of exactly what is required for such adjustments to be successful.

 

As a wider note on using Photoshop to alter photographs – if you can see it's been used then it hasn't been used to a professional standard, unless a surreal effect is wanted.

Edited September 19, 2020 by Anglian

[Killybegs]

Not the healthiest place to work. Great footage though.

[Chamby]

1 hour ago, Anglian said:

 

If the digital file is corrected by a professional who knows what they are doing there won't be unwanted side effects. Individual areas can be altered without effecting other parts of the image. However, such an approach can be very time consuming and there has to be a strong understanding of exactly what is required for such adjustments to be successful.

 

As a wider note on using Photoshop to alter photographs – if you can see it's been used then it hasn't been used to a professional standard, unless a surreal effect is wanted.

 

There are far too many variables here... was the original on Kodak, Fuji, Agfa or other film, as a transparency or negative... all had different colour balances in the original material.  How old was the film?  The different pigments fade at different rates over time.  

 

Also the photograph appears to have autumnal tints in the trees, again we know that seasonal light variances will affect tonality.  And that’s before you consider the different products that we are each using to view the image.  So far too many variables here for anyone to make an accurate comment on colour!

 

Interesting to note though, the different colours to the buffer shanks.

[Anglian]

I totally agree, the difficulty is not in using the software effectively but in deciding what the end result should be since, as you write, what is true the colour range. Since our computer screens will be showing slightly different things anyway it's an impossible task to satisfy everyone and say 'this is what the true colour looked like on the day'.

[cctransuk]

40 minutes ago, Chamby said:

Interesting to note though, the different colours to the buffer shanks.

 

I suspect that the cleaner's shift ended before he got to the RH buffer - he didn't have time to do the autotrain connection box behind the vac. pipe, either!

 

John Isherwood.

[landscapes]

On 09/12/2012 at 18:42, Andy Y said:

 

They're all Tony's pics, I particularly like the image of the weathered O2 which was begrimed by Tim Shackleton.

 

Tony's advised "both 63925 and 63980 are on Retford GC shed (check the houses on the old A1 in the background). Out of interest, the real 63940 and 63943 are at Frodingham and 63934 is at Mexborough. "

 

Tony's also included another lovely image of an O2/4, built by John Houlden from a Nu-Cast kit and running on his Gamston Bank layout.

 

 

I'm pleased to say that Tony is penning a whole series of articles for BRM to be published next year where he muses over the matters of prototype modelling and the building of kits. I'm told the first one is considered controversial!

Hi

 

I know it’s an old photo but an absolutely Brilliant photo, very Lifelike and realistic.

 

Regards

 

David

Edited September 19, 2020 by landscapes
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