Tony Wright Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, landscapes said: Hi I know it’s an old photo but an absolutely Brilliant photo, very Lifelike and realistic. Regards David Thanks David, And it's eight years ago at least! To get a lifelike and realistic photograph, one has to have lifelike and realistic modelling.................... Regards, Tony. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam88 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) On 19/09/2020 at 11:28, Anglian said: If the digital file is corrected by a professional who knows what they are doing there won't be unwanted side effects. Individual areas can be altered without effecting other parts of the image. However, such an approach can be very time consuming and there has to be a strong understanding of exactly what is required for such adjustments to be successful. As a wider note on using Photoshop to alter photographs – if you can see it's been used then it hasn't been used to a professional standard, unless a surreal effect is wanted. That would be akin to colourising colour images. We are only seeing a camera's interpretation of the event - with particular lighting: intensity; colour cast; direction; diffusion; etc, film type (incidentally, I doubt Fuji were selling film in the UK at the time this picture was taken), processing, duplication, scanning, etc. The blueness of the BR totem is probably a reflection from the blue sky of a sunny day. There is though sufficient information here for the picture to be helpful, we know the location, the type of locomotive, its number, its crest, its task, its lamps of course - important for WW readers. It's difficult when people try and colourise monochrome photographs and film. I generally don't like it, apart from the contemporary Alf Cooke/"F Moore" type images published in The Locomotive and the Railway Magazine in days gone by where I think the photographs were used to help the artist. Even then much depends on the artist using the information. This example intrigues me, an LNER locomotive in an attractive hybrid GNR (brown frames)/LNER livery. I don't think this is a true reflection of the prototype but is it helpful? Other prints of the type lighten the frames to grey to help show detail. The perspective here shows that this picture is based on a photograph, probably one of those superb builder's photographs where everything was painted in matt black, grey and white. In one recent example a colourised photograph used on a book's dust jacket there were green L&Y carriages! The further we move from the time and date of the photographer the worse the problem becomes. Tony has often alluded to this with his comments on photograph captions. Often information is lost forever - sometimes almost as soon as the shutter was pressed, there has been much discussion about Eric Treacy's collection. In the modelling domain we also get further from the original with all our compromises, for many the trick is to pull it back as closely as we can to whatever we are trying to achieve. Edited September 3, 2022 by Adam88 reinsert lost picture 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2020 The best go a colourising was Weta digital and the World War 1 footage, also frame rate fixes. Only obvious errors were occasionally legs. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 I mentioned in a previous post how the cab roof came off one of the latest Hornby Prairies I'm reviewing. At least it gave me the opportunity of taking a picture of the cab interior (the cab roof is now fixed back on). Detail like this is staggering, and all the more remarkable in that it's all but invisible with the roof replaced! What more can we expect from our RTR manufacturers? Without appearing to be too disparaging, I'm assuming that this N Gauge example of the class is an early Farish one? I think it's accepted that the smaller scales are best showing 'railways in a landscape' (though some of the 2mm FS locos I've taken pictures of in the last year or two have been incredible). This is an 'open question', but is there a prejudice in some quarters with regard to N Gauge locos and rolling stock? A prejudice involving prices? Some more-recent N Gauge equivalent locos/rolling stock appear to me to be approaching price-parity with their OO cousins. Yet, though they're far better than of yore, the detail tends to be (out of necessity) 'cruder', especially valve gear/motion and wheels. I don't really know, since I've never been an N Gauge modeller, but what does a Farish 61XX cost these days? Or, are they still made? Of course, the larger the scale, the more impressive the models. Especially if they're as good as these....................... Two large Prairies on Warley's 82G, I imagine painted by Ian Rathbone. How natural is this? Looking through my photographic library, my pictures of 51XX/61XX Classes are in short supply. I had a Graham Farish 61XX in OO well over 50 years ago (the last of the line?). I bought it from Trickett's in Garden Lane, Chester (anyone remember that establishment?). It didn't pick-up off all its drivers and had no piston rods. Yet, it cost a lot of money! Any more pictures out there showing these handsome Prairies? 14 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Of course, the larger the scale, the more impressive the models. Especially if they're as good as these....................... With the quality of weathering of the wagon, as well as the trackwork in the foreground it's very easy to believe this is a photo of a real location. First class. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Tony Wright said: I mentioned in a previous post how the cab roof came off one of the latest Hornby Prairies I'm reviewing. At least it gave me the opportunity of taking a picture of the cab interior (the cab roof is now fixed back on). Detail like this is staggering, and all the more remarkable in that it's all but invisible with the roof replaced! What more can we expect from our RTR manufacturers? Without appearing to be too disparaging, I'm assuming that this N Gauge example of the class is an early Farish one? I think it's accepted that the smaller scales are best showing 'railways in a landscape' (though some of the 2mm FS locos I've taken pictures of in the last year or two have been incredible). This is an 'open question', but is there a prejudice in some quarters with regard to N Gauge locos and rolling stock? A prejudice involving prices? Some more-recent N Gauge equivalent locos/rolling stock appear to me to be approaching price-parity with their OO cousins. Yet, though they're far better than of yore, the detail tends to be (out of necessity) 'cruder', especially valve gear/motion and wheels. I don't really know, since I've never been an N Gauge modeller, but what does a Farish 61XX cost these days? Or, are they still made? Of course, the larger the scale, the more impressive the models. Especially if they're as good as these....................... Two large Prairies on Warley's 82G, I imagine painted by Ian Rathbone. How natural is this? Looking through my photographic library, my pictures of 51XX/61XX Classes are in short supply. I had a Graham Farish 61XX in OO well over 50 years ago (the last of the line?). I bought it from Trickett's in Garden Lane, Chester (anyone remember that establishment?). It didn't pick-up off all its drivers and had no piston rods. Yet, it cost a lot of money! Any more pictures out there showing these handsome Prairies? I'm afraid I do have a bit of a prejudice against N, I find them difficult to see properly. I find the 2mm FS incredible as it is too small to see detail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 23 minutes ago, MJI said: I'm afraid I do have a bit of a prejudice against N, I find them difficult to see properly. I find the 2mm FS incredible as it is too small to see detail I hope you don't drive. The figures on the speedo are smaller than a N/2mm loco. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted September 20, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 20, 2020 10 hours ago, MJI said: I'm afraid I do have a bit of a prejudice against N, I find them difficult to see properly. I find the 2mm FS incredible as it is too small to see detail 'I find the 2mm FS incredible as it is too small to see detail' How much 'detail' do you wish to see? Regards, Tony. 18 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted September 20, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 20, 2020 11 hours ago, polybear said: With the quality of weathering of the wagon, as well as the trackwork in the foreground it's very easy to believe this is a photo of a real location. First class. Thanks Brian, The images might be more redolent of the period in B&W................. Without doubt, 82G houses many of the finest locomotives (in any scale/gauge) I've ever seen. Many are built from kits and many are painted by Ian Rathbone............... The subject of model railway insurance crops up from time. What's the insurance on this little lot (and there are many more) I wonder? Regards, Tony. 18 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) Anyone out there able to help, please? Despite only attempting to load small photographic files, RMweb keeps telling me I cannot load more than 10MBs. Odd, in that I've not long ago loaded 15 images, and this time I only want to load three.................. Edited September 20, 2020 by Tony Wright to add something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 On 18/09/2020 at 21:03, Theakerr said: I came across this video a while back because I had watched some good stuff from Belfast Jack on Vimeo. Now on U-tube in 'HD' it has some superb shots of Kings Cross and surrounds. Note, if someone else has posted this video and i missed it I apologize for 'double posting' Wonderful video from an age long gone. Filth, smoke, soot, steam, gloom, doom, trains, track signals and other paraphernalia everywhere etc etc Sometimes I think all (well most) of our layouts are just too squeaky clean !! It's nigh on impossible to effectively reproduce this atmosphere on our layouts - though many have a fair bash at it. Has your signalman got a megaphone to bawl through ? Brit15 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuffer Davies Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Anyone out there able to help, please? Despite only attempting to load small photographic files, RMweb keeps telling me I cannot load more than 10MBs. Odd, in that I've not long ago loaded 15 images, and this time I only want to load three.................. Have you checked the file sizes of the images you are trying to load? Frank 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted September 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Anyone out there able to help, please? Despite only attempting to load small photographic files, RMweb keeps telling me I cannot load more than 10MBs. Odd, in that I've not long ago loaded 15 images, and this time I only want to load three.................. Have you added a photo to a post, then deleted it and tried to add another? I had that once as a problem and I think the RMWeb "counter" for file sizes doesn't seem to deduct deleted images. I ended up doing a completely new post and then it was happy to let me add a fresh 10MB. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted September 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 hour ago, APOLLO said: Wonderful video from an age long gone. Filth, smoke, soot, steam, gloom, doom, trains, track signals and other paraphernalia everywhere etc etc Sometimes I think all (well most) of our layouts are just too squeaky clean !! It's nigh on impossible to effectively reproduce this atmosphere on our layouts - though many have a fair bash at it. Has your signalman got a megaphone to bawl through ? Brit15 My layouts have all that. It is a shame that it is all in my imagination and only I can see it but that is probably as close as we are ever going to get. 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted September 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: 'I find the 2mm FS incredible as it is too small to see detail' How much 'detail' do you wish to see? Regards, Tony. Pictures are fine , but at shows unless you can get front row, you just can't appreciate. I did buy a N wagon kit to see if worth going but even in my 20s I thought too small for me. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted September 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2020 14 hours ago, Tony Wright said: I mentioned in a previous post how the cab roof came off one of the latest Hornby Prairies I'm reviewing. At least it gave me the opportunity of taking a picture of the cab interior (the cab roof is now fixed back on). Detail like this is staggering, and all the more remarkable in that it's all but invisible with the roof replaced! What more can we expect from our RTR manufacturers? Any more pictures out there showing these handsome Prairies? Here’s the Hornby 61xx prior to weathering. Unfortunately the cab roof on mine is definitely fixed! I usually change the glazing and open the rear shutters too, but this one might not be viable 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 Many thanks for the photo suggestions. The file sizes were very small. It seems to have worked this time, thankfully. I wonder if anyone can help in the following respect, please? I mentioned the near-parity in price now between equivalent N Gauge and OO Gauge locos (or my observations could be wrong, of course). The above is a Farish N Gauge 'Princess Coronation' in (obviously) BR blue (being an ex-streamliner shouldn't it have a sloping smokebox in this guise, and a smaller spectacles?). Does anyone know the RRP of this, please? And a Hornby OO RTR equivalent running on Shap (I think the only thing which has been done to this is my untangling the motion on one side after it tried to tie itself in knots at Glasgow last February!). Does anyone know the RRP of this, please? Comparisons are odious, I know, and when one looks back of the respective predecessors of these models, both of these are light years beyond those. However, admittedly in close-up, the motion/wheels' flanges on the N Gauge version do seem to me to be quite over-scale in comparison (though the valve gear might fly to bits if made to scale; as the OO one tried to!). I think it's also fair to say, that both locos represent a very high RTR current standard. 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 50 minutes ago, PMP said: Here’s the Hornby 61xx prior to weathering. Unfortunately the cab roof on mine is definitely fixed! I usually change the glazing and open the rear shutters too, but this one might not be viable Thanks Paul, The slidebars on your example seem to be nearer the horizontal, as they should be. On both the examples I have, the slidebars/crosshead/piston rod slope down towards the rear........................ Both sides. Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atso Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: I wonder if anyone can help in the following respect, please? I mentioned the near-parity in price now between equivalent N Gauge and OO Gauge locos (or my observations could be wrong, of course). The above is a Farish N Gauge 'Princess Coronation' in (obviously) BR blue (being an ex-streamliner shouldn't it have a sloping smokebox in this guise, and a smaller spectacles?). Does anyone know the RRP of this, please? Hello Tony, According to the Graham Farish website, the RRP for the N gauge Coronation is £184.95. Edited September 20, 2020 by Atso 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: I wonder if anyone can help in the following respect, please? I mentioned the near-parity in price now between equivalent N Gauge and OO Gauge locos (or my observations could be wrong, of course). The above is a Farish N Gauge 'Princess Coronation' in (obviously) BR blue (being an ex-streamliner shouldn't it have a sloping smokebox in this guise, and a smaller spectacles?). Does anyone know the RRP of this, please? And a Hornby OO RTR equivalent running on Shap (I think the only thing which has been done to this is my untangling the motion on one side after it tried to tie itself in knots at Glasgow last February!). Does anyone know the RRP of this, please? Comparisons are odious, I know, and when one looks back of the respective predecessors of these models, both of these are light years beyond those. However, admittedly in close-up, the motion/wheels' flanges on the N Gauge version do seem to me to be quite over-scale in comparison (though the valve gear might fly to bits if made to scale; as the OO one tried to!). I think it's also fair to say, that both locos represent a very high RTR current standard. Always happy to indulge in a little bit of Duchess detail, Tony! According to the records, 46226 was blue till May-54; smokebox to normal Nov-55 so it would appear that the N-gauge offering is indeed anomalous in that respect. I'm not sure whether to feel complimented or insulted re my 46224! It is in fact one of the older Hornby offerings from approx 15 years ago, which I picked up second hand for about £60. It has had quite a bit of work done to it including replacement rear frames and pony truck modifications to replace the 'from a previous age' swinging rear frame arrangement, plus quite a bit of extra detail added at the front end, as the following picture shows: Bogie front cut right back, additional plastic added to reduce gap above bogie wheels (which have been replaced with Gibson ones), lightening hole added forward of cylinders, together with anti-vacuum valve, bogie transom plate added, grab handle above front steps and - very specifically - cylinder by-pass valves arrangements added as part of draincocks assembly (only fitted to (4)6220-6224 and later removed on some of them). In doing this work, maybe I've brought it nearer to the standard of the current offering (and saved myself circa £100 in the process) and thus 'fooled' you? I think the point you're making is just as valid nonetheless! (She's since had a coat of gloss varnish which has really lifted the blue colour but now really needs at least a bit of weathering. The crew would also appreciate some cab doors and a fall plate.) Edited September 20, 2020 by LNER4479 11 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted September 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2020 17 hours ago, Tony Wright said: This is an 'open question', but is there a prejudice in some quarters with regard to N Gauge locos and rolling stock? A prejudice involving prices? Some more-recent N Gauge equivalent locos/rolling stock appear to me to be approaching price-parity with their OO cousins. Yet, though they're far better than of yore, the detail tends to be (out of necessity) 'cruder', especially valve gear/motion and wheels. I don't really know, since I've never been an N Gauge modeller, but what does a Farish 61XX cost these days? Or, are they still made? The only place you can get an N gauge Prairie at the moment is second hand. The Farish model hasn't been made for years and is of the old Poole era tooling. The Dapol small prairie hasn't been made for some time either, but has finer detail than the Farish model. It does however date from Dapol's early steps into N gauge and along with the Dapol M7 suffers from poor speed control. Yes, there's prejudice amongst some modellers towards N Gauge. Model main-land Europe or North America and it gets worse. At numerous exhibitions I've heard people dismissing a layout simply because it's N Gauge or 2FS. The same people have then gone on to watch a distinctly less than average OO gauge layout rather than a decent N gauge one. Locomotives are now a similar price to their 4mm equivalent. Whilst they use less raw materials and cost less to ship, they take just as much time to design, build and paint. I'd guess that a typical run of N Gauge models is smaller in number meaning costs can't be spread over a larger number of models. N Gauge modellers do still have the edge over OO Gauge when it comes to the price of RTR rolling stock. N Gauge does loose out when it comes to kits - there's no doubting that there's much more available in the larger scales regardless of if your interest is locomotives, wagons or passenger stock. I personally think steam locos look better in the larger scales. Building robust and accurate valve gear at 2mm:foot isn't easy, especially for commercially sold models. Mechanically, I don't think N gauge has ever been far behind. Indeed, for much of the 1980s and 90s N Gauge diesels were steps ahead of what was available from Lima and Hornby at the time. All wheel pick-up and all wheel drive from a central motor was standard in N gauge whilst OO Gauge modellers were having to put up with pancake motors. There's no doubt in my mind that the some of the 2FS & N Gauge gems such as Chee Tor, Copenhagen Fields, Fencehouses, Acton Main Line and Stoney Lane depot are on a par with many of the 4mm layouts that often appear in this thread. I do feel the often repeated "it's too small" is just an excuse. I've seen plenty of N Gauge and 2FS models that have more detail than 7mm scale versions of the same item. The smallest item that can be fitted by someone to a 7mm scale model is no different what can be fitted to a 2mm model. The only difference is that it may be a brake block in the smaller scale and a rivet head in the larger scale. Steven B. 3 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, LNER4479 said: Always happy to indulge in a little bit of Duchess detail, Tony! According to the records, 46226 was blue till May-54; smokebox to normal Nov-55 so it would appear that the N-gauge offering is indeed anomalous in that respect. I'm not sure whether to feel complimented or insulted re my 46224! It is in fact one of the older Hornby offerings from approx 15 years ago, which I picked up second hand for about £60. It has had quite a bit of work done to it including replacement rear frames and pony truck modifications to replace the 'from a previous age' swinging rear frame arrangement, plus quite a bit of extra detail added at the front end, as the following picture shows: Bogie front cut right back, additional plastic added to reduce gap above bogie wheels (which have been replaced with Gibson ones), lightening hole added forward of cylinders, together with anti-vacuum valve, bogie transom plate added, grab handle above front steps and - very specifically - cylinder by-pass valves arrangements added as part of draincocks assembly (only fitted to (4)6220-6224 and later removed on some of them). In doing this work, maybe I've brought it nearer to the standard of the current offering (and saved myself circa £100 in the process) and thus 'fooled' you? I think the point you're making is just as valid nonetheless! (She's since had a coat of gloss varnish which has really lifted the blue colour but now really needs at least a bit of weathering. The crew would also appreciate some cab doors and a fall plate.) Please take it as a compliment, Graham. I was completely hoodwinked into believing it was the most up-to-date manifestation of Hornby's 'Semi'. This one below must have begun as that earlier manifestation.............. I've forgotten which Hornby one this was at source, but, using a Comet conversion kit, I changed it into one of the Ivatt pair. Ian Rathbone completed it by painting SIR WILLIAM to perfection. Is this 'Semi' one of the latest ones from Hornby? Even if it is (or even if it isn't), replacing those 'armoured train' smoke deflectors would be a priority to me (I've got a spare pair here in etched brass somewhere). You know my feelings regarding RTR/kit-built locos............. This 'Semi' (we called all of them that, whether they were de-streamlined or not) to me has much more of a 'presence' than any RTR one, however the latter might have been improved. All your own work as well (DJH or scratch-built?). One point: I think it should have a de-streamlined tender, with smaller cut-out at the front and no handrails towards the rear of the tender tanksides. You've not fitted the steps to the rear of the tender frames, which is correct for a de-streamlined tender. This one is DJH, painted by Geoff Haynes. Let's hope next year all of these (with the exception of 'my' 46256) will be appearing at a show on Shap. However, the signs don't look great! From Atso's comment, it might appear that an N Gauge RTR 'Semi' costs more that an RTR OO Gauge one! Regards, Tony. Edited September 20, 2020 by Tony Wright typo error 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share Posted September 20, 2020 A mate has just informed me that the forthcoming Hornby 'Duchess' for 2020 is to be £189.99. So, just a twitch more than the N Gauge version. Interesting.......................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted September 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Paul, The slidebars on your example seem to be nearer the horizontal, as they should be. On both the examples I have, the slidebars/crosshead/piston rod slope down towards the rear........................ Both sides. Regards, Tony. It isn't always easy to tell from a photo but it looks to me as though the cylinders themselves are slightly inclined. My knowledge of GWR matters is strictly limited but I do recall reading somewhere that these locos had the piston rods aligned a couple of inches above the driving axle and that the cylinders were horizontal, rather than inclined. A quick look at prototype photos would seem to confirm this. Is there a possibility that it is the way the cylinder assembly has been installed in the mechanism that gives the variation in slope? PMP's version looks much better in that respect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERandBR Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 I think the main thing that can put people's noses out when it comes to N vs OO prices and how close they are is the feeling of getting less for your money with the N gauge version. Simply because of the smaller size of N, one can be forgiven for thinking the cost should be lower than OO. However, the amount of fine detail being packed into N Gauge stock now is often just as much if not more than the OO counterpart. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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