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Wright writes.....


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48 minutes ago, great central said:

Regarding wonky cabs, there's a photo somewhere, possibly in a steam world magazine, of a black 5, on the GC if memory serves.

The cab is leaning back at a very noticeable angle.

 

Maybe you mean 45212 which at the end of steam was kept running with a wonky cab after it's trip down't pit.

 

The Very Last One..

 

Re the A1 cab; I took this in 2009. About 30 seconds before the tender had reached full water capacity.

 

Tornado27-02-09-012.jpg.feee97aa7e7e29bd64f416f489f89d1b.jpg

 

P

 

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40 minutes ago, Doncaster Green said:

Or is it something to do with the weight of the tender on the drawbar/rear of the locomotive.   Here are a couple of shots I took of 60007 at Bath in 2008.   There is a definite downward slope to the tender and corresponding upslope on the loco.

 

 

PICT0005-1.jpg.56cac9f8ec7579a3351ab462997445ac.jpg

 

John

My eyes tell me the front tender springs are more compressed than the rear, suggesting the crew have pulled the coal forward.

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21 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

That cab is definitely sloping backwards on the RH side - you can see the bend in the running plate at the firbox / cab interface.

 

John Isherwood.

 

Evening John,

 

there is a bend in the running board but the cab and tender side sheets are parallel and the top surface of the tender and locomotive platforms line up not too badly.

 

tornado2.jpg

Edited by Headstock
make space.
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26 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening John,

 

there is a bend in the running board but the cab and tender side sheets are parallel and the top surface of the tender and locomotive platforms line up not too badly.

 

tornado2.jpg


The lining on the tender looks farther apart along the left side of the image than in the centre, which suggests that some distortion of the image can be attributed to the lens... so maybe that is why the running board also looks slightly curved?

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Another of Belfast Jacks videos.  It is in HD and whilst it does jump about a bit there is some fascinating stuff, especially the make-up of some of the trains and some very strange (to me) coaches.  One clip that i found of particular interest is at 2.23 where a fitted freight has the Guard's Van between 5 and 7 wagons from the train end.  Something I remember on the Grimsby to London fast fish trains but strongly rebutted when I mentioned it in a post.  Especially since my father told me it was done to give the Guard a better ride. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Chamby said:


The lining on the tender looks farther apart along the left side of the image than in the centre, which suggests that some distortion of the image can be attributed to the lens... so maybe that is why the running board also looks slightly curved?

 

Evening chamby,

 

the tender is closer to the viewer as the camera pans to follow the loco, as it pulls away o the right.

tornado3.jpg

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2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Tony,

 

the two handrails that you are comparing are not parallel from the angle that you are viewing. That on the firebox conforms to the inward angle of the firebox, from the tubeplate back to the cab. Thus it is diverging inwards from the parallel compared to the cab handrail. If the two handrails are parallel in a plan view on your DJH A1's,then the shape of the firebox is wrong. The effect is visible below.

 

 

 

 

tornado1.jpg

OK Andrew,

 

Point taken. However, shouldn't the horizontal handrail on the cab be parallel with the central footplate valance and the main handrail on the boiler? It isn't.

 

I have to say, I'm astonished at the interest the picture has generated. And, at the instance that I took that picture, TORNADO's cab is leaning back slightly. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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15 hours ago, Iain.d said:

Thank you! But they're not mine - they are from a Comet Coaches interior etch. I just drilled the lamp hole and soldered them all up.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

Oops - sorry! Should have read your post more clearly :blush: Mind you, that does mean I might use some myself...

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5 hours ago, davidw said:

It is possible to "fix" the Bachmann version, as I think you've done.

 

Other that building a kit which for some brings in other issues, Hornby's Tornado is far better sorted with respect to the lining up of the cab and tender, it also has a cartazzi with better relief though only suitable for few of the originals?

 

 A friend has a Hornby Tornado, I was  surprised how strong it was. It bettered the latest Bachmann version (early examples were awarded the wooden spoon in that respect anyway). But I was also surprised how good the lining was better than Bachmann. i felt it wouldn't take much effort to make a decent original A1. Tender mods body and chassis, smoke deflectors and handrails. Not sure what else.

 

With respect to the prototype Tornado. The camera is cruel, it's not perfect. I suspect we're more demanding of models and less forgiving?

Good evening David,

 

'It is possible to "fix" the Bachmann version, as I think you've done.'

 

It is....... 

 

60125.jpg.ce5343408caeac35e5507f5cced30ed0.jpg

 

This much-modified Bachmann A1 has had the back end raised up by inserting washers underneath its cab. It gives a much better orientation between the loco's footplate and the tender's soleplate. 

 

One thing I haven't done (and really should do) is to alter the incorrect angle of the return crank on this side. It leans backwards at bottom dead centre, instead of forwards. 

 

The grossly over-scale lamps have long been confined to the bin and replaced (as seen in the picture below) with correct-sized LMS ones....................

 

1590845656_60125and60538.jpg.772e93b1355aa377c10fa00a7a04dabb.jpg

 

I've done the same 'lifting up' at the rear on a much-modified Bachmann A2 as well. Since these are the only two Bachmann Pacifics on LB, it's worth it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Edited by Tony Wright
to add something
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38 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

OK Andrew,

 

Point taken. However, shouldn't the horizontal handrail on the cab be parallel with the central footplate valance and the main handrail on the boiler? It isn't.

 

I have to say, I'm astonished at the interest the picture has generated. And, at the instance that I took that picture, TORNADO's cab is leaning back slightly. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

I guess it comes back to caption writing, can the orientation of a handrail determine the lean of a A1 cab? As a member of the Sceptics Society, a non profit making organization that promotes critical thinking, I would demand more evidence than that provided in the  photo being captioned. In the current climate of conspiracy theories and fake news it is an invaluable source.

 

If anybody is interested, I won't be promoting via a link, they can quite easily find the society themselves. 

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The Southern Pacific Railroad radically sorted out their cab / tender issues.

 

image.png.ce0db82bca27bab623ef8593f131859f.png

 

Hard work for the fireman though carrying buckets of coal along the footplate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

They did have some handsome steam locos though, didn't dare to get the levels out between cab and tender with this paint scheme.

 

Night_session_june_23_2011_033xRP_-_Flic

 

Brit15

Edited by APOLLO
typo
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I gather they're a bit busy with another bit of 12" to 1 foot scratchbuilding ...

 

This goes on a bit but, for those interested, skip to approx 1hr 18min for David Elliott's walk round tour of the new loco, highlighting various aspects of the work. Gives you some idea of just what is involved ...

 

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15 hours ago, Theakerr said:

Another of Belfast Jacks videos.  It is in HD and whilst it does jump about a bit there is some fascinating stuff, especially the make-up of some of the trains and some very strange (to me) coaches.  One clip that i found of particular interest is at 2.23 where a fitted freight has the Guard's Van between 5 and 7 wagons from the train end.  Something I remember on the Grimsby to London fast fish trains but strongly rebutted when I mentioned it in a post.  Especially since my father told me it was done to give the Guard a better ride. 

 

 

@hongkongmike You seen this?

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15 hours ago, Theakerr said:

Another of Belfast Jacks videos.  It is in HD and whilst it does jump about a bit there is some fascinating stuff, especially the make-up of some of the trains and some very strange (to me) coaches.  One clip that i found of particular interest is at 2.23 where a fitted freight has the Guard's Van between 5 and 7 wagons from the train end.  Something I remember on the Grimsby to London fast fish trains but strongly rebutted when I mentioned it in a post.  Especially since my father told me it was done to give the Guard a better ride. 

 

 

 

I like the V2 on the unfitted coal train early in the film. If we ran one at that speed on our model railways, it would raise an eyebrow or two!

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Re: Problems with Lining

A while ago, there was a discussion of defects on full-size vehicles looking wrong when reproduced on models. 

 

(I note the above posts regarding 'Tornado', but in my opinion she has never looked better than when painted in Apple Green with 'LNER' on the tender. I think that was a 'one-off'! I suspect my dislike of BR Green comes from having been frightened by a (nearly new?) very shiny 'Britannia' when in my pushchair.)

 

However, Is there a similar problem with white lining, and the way the eye and/or camera sees a large object like a locomotive boiler? 

 

Here is 'Green Arrow', as currently in Locomotion. 

(It's difficult to get further away at the moment.)

 

Post_V2_01.jpg.f0e7a8dfb0c6b03c2464c5c36159957f.jpg

 

 

And here is one boiler-band.

 

 

Post_v2_02.jpg.a933896794e746756270e6d67e9bb305.jpg

 

The white lines appear to be 1/4" wide, which I think is correct.

And another:

 

Post_v2_03.jpg.7a55f45a89551f62f483b7685c2dc63f.jpg

 

With the limitations of the mobile 'phone camera, the lighting, my lack of skill etc etc, to my eye the white lines appear thicker at the top of the boiler.

 

If we look further away:

 

Post_01.jpg.1a1d08fe40d732fb6804ed178c149b54.jpg

 

(This was when 'Tornado' was at the 'Hospital for Sick Engines' at the Nene Valley a while ago.)

Obviously, there are better pictures, I've only used ones which I have taken myself.

In this view, the white predominates over the black.

 

So, how to paint models in this livery to look 'credible'?

'Scale' would be a white line at 0.045mm, if I have calculated correctly.

 

Some RtR models, seem to nearly abandon the black entirely, which doesn't look right to me at all. 

I have tried (on one NER engine) just using black for the boiler bands, which also doesn't look right.

 

Even on some of the really good LNER models I have seen, the lining seems to me to stand out far more than perhaps it should.

 

I would be very grateful for opinion and advice, before I give more attention to my Proper Green Engines!

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47 minutes ago, drmditch said:

Re: Problems with Lining

A while ago, there was a discussion of defects on full-size vehicles looking wrong when reproduced on models. 

 

(I note the above posts regarding 'Tornado', but in my opinion she has never looked better than when painted in Apple Green with 'LNER' on the tender. I think that was a 'one-off'! I suspect my dislike of BR Green comes from having been frightened by a (nearly new?) very shiny 'Britannia' when in my pushchair.)

 

However, Is there a similar problem with white lining, and the way the eye and/or camera sees a large object like a locomotive boiler? 

 

Here is 'Green Arrow', as currently in Locomotion. 

(It's difficult to get further away at the moment.)

 

Post_V2_01.jpg.f0e7a8dfb0c6b03c2464c5c36159957f.jpg

 

 

And here is one boiler-band.

 

 

Post_v2_02.jpg.a933896794e746756270e6d67e9bb305.jpg

 

The white lines appear to be 1/4" wide, which I think is correct.

And another:

 

Post_v2_03.jpg.7a55f45a89551f62f483b7685c2dc63f.jpg

 

With the limitations of the mobile 'phone camera, the lighting, my lack of skill etc etc, to my eye the white lines appear thicker at the top of the boiler.

 

If we look further away:

 

Post_01.jpg.1a1d08fe40d732fb6804ed178c149b54.jpg

 

(This was when 'Tornado' was at the 'Hospital for Sick Engines' at the Nene Valley a while ago.)

Obviously, there are better pictures, I've only used ones which I have taken myself.

In this view, the white predominates over the black.

 

So, how to paint models in this livery to look 'credible'?

'Scale' would be a white line at 0.045mm, if I have calculated correctly.

 

Some RtR models, seem to nearly abandon the black entirely, which doesn't look right to me at all. 

I have tried (on one NER engine) just using black for the boiler bands, which also doesn't look right.

 

Even on some of the really good LNER models I have seen, the lining seems to me to stand out far more than perhaps it should.

 

I would be very grateful for opinion and advice, before I give more attention to my Proper Green Engines!

 

Over to Sir Ian Rathbone....

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57 minutes ago, drmditch said:

Re: Problems with Lining

A while ago, there was a discussion of defects on full-size vehicles looking wrong when reproduced on models. 

 

(I note the above posts regarding 'Tornado', but in my opinion she has never looked better than when painted in Apple Green with 'LNER' on the tender. I think that was a 'one-off'! I suspect my dislike of BR Green comes from having been frightened by a (nearly new?) very shiny 'Britannia' when in my pushchair.)

 

However, Is there a similar problem with white lining, and the way the eye and/or camera sees a large object like a locomotive boiler? 

 

Here is 'Green Arrow', as currently in Locomotion. 

(It's difficult to get further away at the moment.)

 

Post_V2_01.jpg.f0e7a8dfb0c6b03c2464c5c36159957f.jpg

 

 

And here is one boiler-band.

 

 

Post_v2_02.jpg.a933896794e746756270e6d67e9bb305.jpg

 

The white lines appear to be 1/4" wide, which I think is correct.

And another:

 

Post_v2_03.jpg.7a55f45a89551f62f483b7685c2dc63f.jpg

 

With the limitations of the mobile 'phone camera, the lighting, my lack of skill etc etc, to my eye the white lines appear thicker at the top of the boiler.

 

If we look further away:

 

Post_01.jpg.1a1d08fe40d732fb6804ed178c149b54.jpg

 

(This was when 'Tornado' was at the 'Hospital for Sick Engines' at the Nene Valley a while ago.)

Obviously, there are better pictures, I've only used ones which I have taken myself.

In this view, the white predominates over the black.

 

So, how to paint models in this livery to look 'credible'?

'Scale' would be a white line at 0.045mm, if I have calculated correctly.

 

Some RtR models, seem to nearly abandon the black entirely, which doesn't look right to me at all. 

I have tried (on one NER engine) just using black for the boiler bands, which also doesn't look right.

 

Even on some of the really good LNER models I have seen, the lining seems to me to stand out far more than perhaps it should.

 

I would be very grateful for opinion and advice, before I give more attention to my Proper Green Engines!

Use HMRS lining, its near enough for me.

 

 

 

 

post-7186-0-08218600-1398286749_thumb.jpg

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Given the 'limitations' of the smaller scale, I think Farish has done a creditable job in painting its N Gauge TORNADO.................

 

746537288_26A160163.jpg.59e22bfd2b8087dce79386094586d01b.jpg

 

The back end of the loco footplate bends down ever so slightly (prototypically?). 

 

The slidebars (as on Hornby A4s) shouldn't raise upwards to the rear. And, for the eagle-eyed, there are two spokes in each of the driving wheels missing.  

 

The 'power' of the camera! 

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Out of possible interest...............477075145_03A2RavenDJH.jpg.b80170e9fad0195d6177226cecf769dc.jpg

 

How much for something like this now? It's complete with wheels and motor/gearbox. 

 

And, I didn't pay near what was asked on the box! 

 

I'll build it one day (though it'll be painted by an expert, not me). I've also got an eight-wheeled tender for it. 

 

I did build one of these kits years ago for a friend (painting it myself!). His home was broken into by scum, who, instead of nicking it (and other models of his), just threw it against a wall completely wrecking it. I wonder if they were the parents of those creatures who smashed up the exhibition in Stamford last year? 

 

 

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