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Wright writes.....


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1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

 

 

I don't think Hornby have much of a handle on accurate colour. I think the livery should look more like this.

 

 

 

There might well be H&S implications.

Long ago some blue pigments were banned. 

I remember RAL5013 being one example some times known as Cobalt Blue. The difference between the English and German versions was at one time quite marked.

Without going as far as a colour analysis the BR blue looks to be getting near that dodgy area.

 

Regarding the A4 nose shape. Bert Collins used the Trix body but carved a "waist" in the area just below and in front off the number plate. At the time it was highly thought of and was considered by many people to be the best attempt at the shape.

Bernard

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38 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

There might well be H&S implications.

Long ago some blue pigments were banned. 

I remember RAL5013 being one example some times known as Cobalt Blue. The difference between the English and German versions was at one time quite marked.

Without going as far as a colour analysis the BR blue looks to be getting near that dodgy area.

 

Regarding the A4 nose shape. Bert Collins used the Trix body but carved a "waist" in the area just below and in front off the number plate. At the time it was highly thought of and was considered by many people to be the best attempt at the shape.

Bernard

 

Good afternoon Bernard,

 

you may be right, However the purple A4 dose look a little toxic in itself. I think that they may have made a better fist of this livery in the past and there are other current RTR models that have done the colour better. On the other hand, Hornby are also not so good are BR green, Pullman umber or Garter blue amongst others. Their black is a quite good though.

 

Update

 

apparently the colour is ultramarine blue and is readily available from many sources.

 

An example of a Bullied pacific as the colour is intended to be.

 

http://www.goldenagemodels.net/images/sr-merchant-navy-banner-ipad0003.jpg?crc=158548073

 

 

Edited by Headstock
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When Ian Wilson (who doesn't read RMweb) and I exchange Christmas presents, we like to give each other something we've personally made/modified.

 

This year, the little item below will be one of his presents from me.

 

1369302303_Edenhamcoalwagon01.jpg.fea16df8227f6aa3b59a11912df859bf.jpg

 

612220216_Edenhamcoalwagon02.jpg.22e56a1d571457fea0ccf03eb8c05b8b.jpg

 

682201845_Edenhamcoalwagon04.jpg.67f5518020a0c9d1d144698690c1012e.jpg

 

His little OO layout, Edenham, has coal staithes which allow the fuel to be discharged by gravity, from above, into bunkers below (rather like the NER used). 

 

This will be (obviously) a static model, designed to sit on the top of the staithes.

 

It's a Bachmann 16T mineral wagon (fitted?), with bottom-opening doors. All I did was cut apertures in the floor of the wagon body and the floor of the chassis (removing the metal weight at the same time) and made a drop-down door out of Plastikard. 

 

I admit, I have no idea if this is right (if it's hopelessly wrong, then so be it), but I hope it'll make a nice touch.

 

Dry-brush weathering completed the job.....................

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

When Ian Wilson (who doesn't read RMweb) and I exchange Christmas presents, we like to give each other something we've personally made/modified.

 

This year, the little item below will be one of his presents from me.

 

1369302303_Edenhamcoalwagon01.jpg.fea16df8227f6aa3b59a11912df859bf.jpg

 

612220216_Edenhamcoalwagon02.jpg.22e56a1d571457fea0ccf03eb8c05b8b.jpg

 

682201845_Edenhamcoalwagon04.jpg.67f5518020a0c9d1d144698690c1012e.jpg

 

His little OO layout, Edenham, has coal staithes which allow the fuel to be discharged by gravity, from above, into bunkers below (rather like the NER used). 

 

This will be (obviously) a static model, designed to sit on the top of the staithes.

 

It's a Bachmann 16T mineral wagon (fitted?), with bottom-opening doors. All I did was cut apertures in the floor of the wagon body and the floor of the chassis (removing the metal weight at the same time) and made a drop-down door out of Plastikard. 

 

I admit, I have no idea if this is right (if it's hopelessly wrong, then so be it), but I hope it'll make a nice touch.

 

Dry-brush weathering completed the job.....................

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure, but somehow I think one of the side doors would be open so that the poor chap can extricate himself after pushing the remaining coal through the bottom doors.

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That's a lovely little wagon, Tony , and will make a nice cameo. It reminds me of when i was a newly appointed management trainee in the Civil Service, and every month, 4 or so of the fitter lads would go down into the coal cellar to keep the chute clear to get the coal inside. Hard, hot , sweaty work but great fun, and great teamworking, looking back. Imagine asking staff to do that now.

The models I was building at the time, 50 years ago, have been getting a spin today, and folk might be interested/amused/horrified.

 

. The N7 is the original Wills version with Belpaire firebox, running on a Triang Jinty chassis with X04 motor. I did fit Romfords but that was all - no brakes or anything else. it is reasonably prototypical on my ex-NER rake, as lots of coaches were transferred to the GE. The rake was built during lockdown, so the train represents all 50 years of effort

The J17 is a BEC kit, and I think it was the second I built, in 1973.  it originally sat on a Triang chassis, However, at one time Fenwicks in Newcastle had a Hornby franchise, and you could get some real bargains. I was picking up Hornby Gresleys for £20 and fitting Comet etc etched sides hand over fist. I picked up a couple of SDJR Jinties for £18 each, hoping to convert one to a J73, but this never happened, so stuck the BEC body over one of the chassis, as seen here. It completes my pseudo GE scene,

IMG_20201124_145704.jpg.185c44a5fbf6d9b5a7c5ed45b68357eb.jpg

The Railbus is an Airfix plastic kit on a scratch chassis - just 2 bits of brass soldered together and a DS10 fitted, I built it in the late 70's and I can't remember the last time it ran. It has lost a couple of windows, and I confess I was astonished when, after oiling, off it went, albeit noisily. Goodness knows when it will be out again.

IMG_20201124_150354.jpg.486acd01a6957b6b29eb912a280a918a.jpg

Edited by rowanj
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8 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

I think the one thing that lets down the look marginally of the Hornby A4 body is the flatness of the cylinder covers, given they are meant to follow the curve of the cylinders more in the lower half. I've thought about how to improve this a number of times without a firm conclusion. Probably the only way to fix it is to make new covers that are attached to the cylinders and therefore not to the footplate. But you wouldn't want a gap at the footplate.

 

I've usually realigned the sidebars on the few BR examples I have plus realigning the return crank into its forward leaning position.

 

Of course on my five LNER versions the sidebars are not overly visible so I haven't needed to realign the sidebars. Interestingly on the very first one I got, Mallard the sidebars were perfectly aligned.

 

Andrew 

I agree Andrew re. the cylinder cover curving round the bottom . I improved it on two of my  Hornby A4s by making some overlays from  5 thou brass sheet . Rather fiddly and flimsy as I carried it on a few mm. along the narrow valance area . Popped rivet impressions with one of these pointed rods with a weight , rolling a curve like a coach tumblehome and glued it on . After of course filing the existing plastic rivets flat and forming a curve around the bottom  of the cylinder . Made like this they spring off and on if you need to remove the body . 

As for recent discussions about the radius link being too long and narrow , I have fitted Mike Edge etched two or three layer radius links and his radius rods which can be made to wark properly in gear , and also look right .

 

Regards , Roy .

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You are judging the colour of the experimental purply-blue Hornby A4 by a photo copied and pasted from Hornby's website.  The actual model, several of which we sold as they were fairly good sellers, is much closer to the prototype photo posted, and a long way from that Hornby image!

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2 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

Here's another of Hornby's goes at experimental blue:

 

merlin.jpg.f11ff3aa3d7e3ec2da6f78e7f61240b5.jpg

 

This was a Modelfair limited edition - I don't think it was ever in the main Hornby catalogue.

 

 

Is it a feature of the Hornby A4 that the tender rides too high up?

 

I don't believe any A4 tender had the top pillar on the vertical handrail so much higher than the corresponding one on the cab. 482883509_60014small.jpg.5655d1ef25fa410d85aa25cd04dfa8bc.jpg

 

It's true, on those tenders not fitted with the extra strip at the base of the soleplate for the pre-War stainless steel adornments, the loco's valance was lower than the tank's base, but nowhere near as low as on the model above. Incidentally, at least one of the LNER A4 models shown of late has the stainless steel strip attached to the base of the tank, not below the solebar as it should be.  60027 should have that extra strip, by the way; or at least when she towed a 1935-type streamlined corridor tender. 

 

190578496_60022small.jpg.b243d35ca31e6c30ed1ded348d42e1e2.jpg

 

The 1928 corridor tenders (exA1/A3) had a tender handrail shorter than that on the cab. 

 

MALLARD was a great tender changer. 

 

2053331807_60022studio02.jpg.d914113fa61a22d13d0651b0fe6b02da.jpg

 

Here's Bytham's model of the fastest of all. Built from a Pro-Scale kit (along with 60024), this loco was started by Mick Peabody, but he rather got bamboozled when it came to the complex body-shapes. I, thus, finished it off, asking Ian Rathbone to paint her. 

 

I soldered the extra strip to the bottom of the tender's soleplate, thus getting the thing more in line with the valance. 

 

Pro-Scale A4s are not the easiest of kits to build (because of their complexities), but they're superior to just about all the others (apart from the Finney one). I don't think they're still available; or are they? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Pro-Scale A4s are not the easiest of kits to build (because of their complexities), but they're superior to just about all the others (apart from the Finney one). I don't think they're still available; or are they? 

 

 

That's good news Tony (Good Evening!) I have one to build that cost very little. Hope that I am not too stretched by the compound curves.

 

60022 looks splendid.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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3 hours ago, LNERandBR said:

 

Not sure, but somehow I think one of the side doors would be open so that the poor chap can extricate himself after pushing the remaining coal through the bottom doors.

In my local yard they never used the bottom doors.

It was always a side door propped up to be horizontal and the coal loaded into sacks and placed on the door and then taken off the edge onto a flat bed lorry. But that was ex midland and they had their own way of doing things even in BR days.

Bernard

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47 minutes ago, nsl714 said:

Hello Tony and all,

 

If I may, I'd like to interrupt the fascinating discussion of A4 tenders to share something I've made, freshly finished today. This is a Connoisseur Models Adams O2 in 7mm scale, finished as W24 'Calbourne' in mid-1930's condition. This is the first engine kit I have built, and I am particularly proud of how it came out. The engine is smooth running, (thanks to the care and attention instilled by the 'Right Track' series), and the lining was all done with a bowpen. It was very much a learning experience, and I do look forward to attacking other kits in the future.

 

783077432_SouthernO21.jpg.a7f3f063ede3f0b5ab57734cac827d7f.jpg

 

Thanks,

Zach

 

Speaking as a Southern enthusiast - that looks superb! (especially as a first build!).

Tony

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Tony,

 

I’ve read the debate about the A4s with great interest. As I said I think I need at least one more A4 on Retford and preferably two. I must say the Pro Scale A4 looks pretty good but the kit is no longer available except perhaps on E-bay. I’ve got reservations about the Hornby A4, the valve gear is rather one dimensional and the cylinders are poor. Also I have doubts about whether one could manage the trains on Retford from the point of view of hauling long trains at a scale 65mph on the undulating layout. However I do already have a Hornby A4, 60020 Guillemot, which I bought some time ago. What I intend to do is do a quick conversion of this loco to EM gauge, load the body with as much lead as I can and see how it performs. If it can manage then I’ll try and improve the valve gear and cylinders although whether any of this can be seen when hauling an express at 65 mph through Retford is doubtful.

 

I also intend to buy a SEF A4 because I really do want the weight which a white metal body can give. The model is very flawed particularly in the shape of the nose but the weight factor is more important to me and I feel that with a bit of filing the shape of the nose can be improved.

 

There are four A4s on Retford, I don’t know the provenance of all of them but certainly a couple have Trix  bodies. I think 60018 Sparrow Hawk may have a Hornby body on a Comet under frame. This locomotive looks very good but it is prone to derail if going fast therefore speed has to kept down. Both the locomotive and tender are compensated and I think this may be the problem, I think it may need the compensation adjusting. The other three are marvellous they haul heavy trans with no problem and look great.

 

I don’t wish to be too hard on Hornby. One locomotive I have introduced on Retford is 60135 Madge Wildfire. This is actually a Hornby Railroad “Tornado” with various modifications to make it resemble an ordinary A1 and with quite a bit of weight added. It has been converted to EM by the expedient of simply pulling out the existing driving wheels to EM gauge. The mechanism is very smooth complete with flywheel and it runs well and can haul a 12 coach train round Retford including heavy metal coaches. This brand new locomotive cost the princely sum of £50 at Warley last year.

 

I do hope to post some photos of Retford locos soon.
 

Sandra

 

 

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Hello Tony and everyone, another brief interupption to the A4 discussion (which I'm reading with interest, but which I'm not knowledgable enough to contribute to) for the coach I finished today and would like to share, a Mousa Models resin kit of a GNR D129 Lavatory Composite, in LNER livery:

1347623904_GNRD12920201124(7).JPEG.0f8839faa3ea49eec15c32cd189c5ea0.JPEG

 

1428667434_GNRD12920201124(6).JPEG.a3e08726b34b3808ededc8ad11442cea.JPEG

 

As usual, apologies to those who dislike them for the tension lock couplings - I'll try and remember to take photos before fitting them next time.

And now, back to the A4s :)

Chas

 

 

Edited by Chas Levin
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28 minutes ago, sandra said:

Tony,

 

I’ve read the debate about the A4s with great interest. As I said I think I need at least one more A4 on Retford and preferably two. I must say the Pro Scale A4 looks pretty good but the kit is no longer available except perhaps on E-bay. I’ve got reservations about the Hornby A4, the valve gear is rather one dimensional and the cylinders are poor. Also I have doubts about whether one could manage the trains on Retford from the point of view of hauling long trains at a scale 65mph on the undulating layout. However I do already have a Hornby A4, 60020 Guillemot, which I bought some time ago. What I intend to do is do a quick conversion of this loco to EM gauge, load the body with as much lead as I can and see how it performs. If it can manage then I’ll try and improve the valve gear and cylinders although whether any of this can be seen when hauling an express at 65 mph through Retford is doubtful.

 

I also intend to buy a SEF A4 because I really do want the weight which a white metal body can give. The model is very flawed particularly in the shape of the nose but the weight factor is more important to me and I feel that with a bit of filing the shape of the nose can be improved.

 

There are four A4s on Retford, I don’t know the provenance of all of them but certainly a couple have Trix  bodies. I think 60018 Sparrow Hawk may have a Hornby body on a Comet under frame. This locomotive looks very good but it is prone to derail if going fast therefore speed has to kept down. Both the locomotive and tender are compensated and I think this may be the problem, I think it may need the compensation adjusting. The other three are marvellous they haul heavy trans with no problem and look great.

 

I don’t wish to be too hard on Hornby. One locomotive I have introduced on Retford is 60135 Madge Wildfire. This is actually a Hornby Railroad “Tornado” with various modifications to make it resemble an ordinary A1 and with quite a bit of weight added. It has been converted to EM by the expedient of simply pulling out the existing driving wheels to EM gauge. The mechanism is very smooth complete with flywheel and it runs well and can haul a 12 coach train round Retford including heavy metal coaches. This brand new locomotive cost the princely sum of £50 at Warley last year.

 

I do hope to post some photos of Retford locos soon.
 

Sandra

 

 

Good evening Sandra,

 

I think SPARROW HAWK has a Trix body; as does MERLIN and MALLARD (though where 60022 is now, I don't know). 

 

Whichever A4 bodies Roy might have used, as runners (with his mechanisms) they'll be superb (which surprises me when you say 60018 derails). 

 

I'll have a go at making and fitting an EM Gauge chassis underneath one of my SEF A4s, and, when restrictions are lifted, we can see how it looks (and performs) on Retford. I doubt if there'll be any problems with haulage capacity...............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

In my local yard they never used the bottom doors.

It was always a side door propped up to be horizontal and the coal loaded into sacks and placed on the door and then taken off the edge onto a flat bed lorry. But that was ex midland and they had their own way of doing things even in BR days.

Bernard

Good evening Bernard,

 

Did the Midland ever have elevated coal staithes? 

 

1916876460_Edenham34.jpg.5b2d518edc351f840b5ae19fd0a83577.jpg

 

Ian Wilson has arranged the coal staithes on Edenham to be elevated, so the bottom doors would have to be used to discharge coal. 

 

I suppose I could argue that the side doors on the wee wagon would be closed to prevent spillage, either on to the boardwalk or on to the heads of coal merchants below. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Did the Midland ever have elevated coal staithes? 

 

I wouldn't like to say never but hardly ever, at least in the classic NER form. There were coal drops at various places such as the Cambridge St wharf on the Regents Canal but those were set up for tipping wagons. On the other hand, the standard Midland opens used for mineral traffic and a great many PO wagons running on the Midland system had bottom doors, so there must have been places where they were needed. Possibly, now I come to think of it, the south London coal depots.

 

As for propping up the door: http://www.midlandrailwaystudycentre.org.uk/catimages/28926.jpg.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Bernard,

 

Did the Midland ever have elevated coal staithes? 

 

1916876460_Edenham34.jpg.5b2d518edc351f840b5ae19fd0a83577.jpg

 

Ian Wilson has arranged the coal staithes on Edenham to be elevated, so the bottom doors would have to be used to discharge coal. 

 

I suppose I could argue that the side doors on the wee wagon would be closed to prevent spillage, either on to the boardwalk or on to the heads of coal merchants below. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Tony, in the NER record volume 1 there is scale drawings from the NER.  There is a fence/ handrail on the road side which would stopped shunters falling onto the loading side. 

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Hi Jesse

The J6 is looking good.

Just a couple of questions/comments if I may. Are those safety valves what were supplied in the kit? They look a strange shape to me. Secondly did that chimney come in the kit? I wasn't sure if the kit is supplied with two chimneys - one for earlier LNER period and a shorter one for WW2 onwards? I only have an old WSM J6 running at present but have Graeme King's resin cast version as well as a LRM kit to build.

 

Regards

Andrew

Edited by Woodcock29
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44 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

Hi Jesse

The J6 is looking good.

Just a couple of questions/comments if I may. Are those safety valves what were supplied in the kit? They look a strange shape to me. Secondly did that chimney come in the kit? I wasn't sure if the kit is supplied with two chimneys - one for earlier LNER period and a shorter one for WW2 onwards? I only have an old WSM J6 running at present but have Graeme King's resin cast version as well as a LRM kit to build.

 

Regards

Andrew

They were supplied yeah, it actually came with three chimneys, I was going of a photo one in 30s and it looked like the most suitable. 

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