Wright writes.....

[Leander]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

According to Model Loco, it's an Amstrong Whitworth-built example (presumably with the shorter wheelbase). 

 

It came with a flush-sided tender, but there was much swapping among the class over the years. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

It's certainly a model based on the second series of Armstrong Whitworth built locos numbering 227 locos so you've got plenty from which to choose! They were distinguished by having a domed boiler with separate top feed in the 'normal' position and plain/unfluted coupling rods. When built all were attached to welded tenders, the style most commonly found with them throughout their lives. Here's a Mike Edge built example, in EM gauge, of this type.

 

Pete

[Barry O]

Word at Elswick works was that a black 5 had been badly built and it was buried under the site on Scotswood Road...

 

Baz

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

All I would say is that by using Birchwood Casey chemical blackening and the right flux (I use Templer's Telux paste) I couldn't solder valve gear solid if I wanted to. The method is totally idiot proof.

 

I'll take your advice on soldering, but I'd be wary of describing anything as "idiot-proof".  In my experience, these things just haven't yet been introduced to enough idiots.

[micklner]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

As always with these things, ask 10 modellers and get 10 different answers.

 

All I would say is that by using Birchwood Casey chemical blackening and the right flux (I use Templer's Telux paste) I couldn't solder valve gear solid if I wanted to. The method is totally idiot proof.

 

 

 

 

No problem , however it will be a pain to clean Multiple pieces on gear like on the A2/3 . How do you get into the corners , without damging the gear ?

Easy enough on just coupling rods, as you have access.

[t-b-g]

Just now, Northmoor said:

I'll take your advice on soldering, but I'd be wary of describing anything as "idiot-proof".  In my experience, these things just haven't yet been introduced to enough idiots.

 

Perhaps the phrase should have been "Suitable for all levels of skill and experience". "Idiot proof" was quicker to type.

 

One of the things I do is to act as a tutor for the Missenden Abbey modelling weekends and it is a technique that I have shown to total novices, people who have maybe never soldered anything before they come to the sessions and they have been able to watch me do it once and then get good results for themselves first time.

 

It really is that easy.

[t-b-g]

2 minutes ago, micklner said:

No problem , however it will be a pain to clean Multiple pieces on gear like on the A2/3 . How do you get into the corners , without damging the gear ?

Easy enough on just coupling rods, as you have access.

 

I am sorry but I don't see the problem. The valve gear is made up on the bench just the same way as you would with rivets. It is then fitted by attaching the return crank to the crankpin and with a pin through the expansion link, plus I anchor the rear end of the lifting link (to the reversing lever) to a cross shaft. They don't float in mid air like some models do.

 

You shouldn't leave the iron on too long on a short bit, as it may melt the joint at the other end but even if you do, the blackening still acts as a solder resist so as long as the parts aren't moved, it just sets again.

 

In the not too distant future, I may be using the technique on some valve gear that may come my way to build. When I do, I will post a stage by stage photo feature, if that would help explain it. There isn't much call for it on the GCR things I make for myself!

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Leander said:

Hello Tony

 

It's certainly a model based on the second series of Armstrong Whitworth built locos numbering 227 locos so you've got plenty from which to choose! They were distinguished by having a domed boiler with separate top feed in the 'normal' position and plain/unfluted coupling rods. When built all were attached to welded tenders, the style most commonly found with them throughout their lives. Here's a Mike Edge built example, in EM gauge, of this type.

 

Pete

Thanks Pete,

 

A lovely, most-natural model.

 

It's attached to a riveted tender, I assume?

 

Looking through Irwell's Books of The Black Fives, tender swapping was quite common. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[60027Merlin]

Out and about on a running in turn round the layout.

 

60502 now ready for painting, however there is an A2/3 to finish off first. Started in May this year and am glad to see the back of it!

 

[landscapes]

1 hour ago, 60027Merlin said:

Out and about on a running in turn round the layout.

 

60502 now ready for painting, however there is an A2/3 to finish off first. Started in May this year and am glad to see the back of it!

 

Hi Eric

 

Looks very good indeed.

 

David

[Leander]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

A lovely, most-natural model.

 

It's attached to a riveted tender, I assume?

 

Looking through Irwell's Books of The Black Fives, tender swapping was quite common. 

You're correct Tony. It's a 4000 gallon riveted version. I agree, the five Irwell 'Book of the Black 5s' books are extremely useful in identifying detail differences, allocation histories and tender types attached to different class members over the years.

[Michael Edge]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Pete,

 

A lovely, most-natural model.

 

It's attached to a riveted tender, I assume?

 

Looking through Irwell's Books of The Black Fives, tender swapping was quite common. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

It's all K's above the frames so yes it is their riveted tender.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

It's all K's above the frames so yes it is their riveted tender.

 

I would never have guessed it was a K's kit. It looks like something much more "upmarket".

 

It just goes to show that if you put a rather basic kit in the hands of a good modeller, you can get a lovely loco out of the combination.

[Adam88]

6 hours ago, Barry O said:

Word at Elswick works was that a black 5 had been badly built and it was buried under the site on Scotswood Road...

 

Baz

 

The variant of that story I heard in the eighties was that someone [at Woolwich Arsenal] had wrecked a locomotive [Woolwich mogul I assume] coupling [or connecting] rod [or other valve gear part] and had [been instructed to] milled it away completely to destroy the evidence.  (Enough facts for everyone?)  After 100 years it would be difficult to confirm but my source would have started in the MOD in the sixties so he may have heard it second or third hand.  Articles on Woolwich moguls do say they were relatively expensive and this might be just one reason.

[Bernard Lamb]

6 hours ago, Barry O said:

Word at Elswick works was that a black 5 had been badly built and it was buried under the site on Scotswood Road...

 

Baz

It was common practise at work to bury equipment on site rather than let it come into the hands of the locals.

Fork lift trucks and generators will be discovered in odd places in Africa and Asia in a few 100 years time.

Bernard

[Theakerr]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

When the Wills point rodding was introduced, I thought it was the answer to my prayers; however, unfortunately, I model (mainly) in 4mm scale (not S, or even 7mm!). 

 

Just too big I'm afraid - too big to go underneath 'scale' rail.

 

Yes, the MSE range is fiddly (as is Brassmasters, which I also used), but it's a much nearer scale representation. 

 

I found it best to do LB's rodding (around 35' of it!) in stages (which gave me time to 'recover' 'tween times), just letting it take its course. Most of it was made-up off-site in my workshop, then installed in situ. I thought I'd done well from time to time at the bench, thinking I'd made quite a run. Then, I took it to the layout and it 'literally' disappeared!

 

Once you start, you'll find you've got to complete it. You'll also probably find layouts without it (where there should be rodding) 'disappointing' afterwards. 

 

The big advantage of the MSE system is that it's soldered together, though runs underneath rails must be made of plastic-equivalent section to obviate shorts.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Thanks Tony, I had thought it would have to be assembled in situ based on the components but pre-assembling and soldering said assembly together should be much easier and should minimize kinks in the rodding.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Theakerr
Better wording

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, 60027Merlin said:

Out and about on a running in turn round the layout.

 

60502 now ready for painting, however there is an A2/3 to finish off first. Started in May this year and am glad to see the back of it!

 

Very nice, Eric............

 

Nice to see the hole in the tender side for the tablet catcher when working through Montrose. A nice touch. 

 

A DJH kit? But not a DJH tender?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Almost there now....................

 

 

Just a few bits and pieces to complete, including the steps.

 

The most time-consuming part of the build was removing the previously-applied glue. I know I've asked this question before, but why do instructions for metal kits (not that I read them) advise gluing the parts together, including etched pieces? 

[LNER4479]

Looking very nice, Tony. I should build one myself one day ...

Edited December 1, 2020 by LNER4479

[Leander]

5 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

It's all K's above the frames so yes it is their riveted tender.

So what's the origins of its 'underpinnings' please Mike? I assumed it was Model Loco Company / DJH?

Edited December 1, 2020 by Leander
Addition

[60027Merlin]

48 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Very nice, Eric............

 

Nice to see the hole in the tender side for the tablet catcher when working through Montrose. A nice touch. 

 

A DJH kit? But not a DJH tender?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Tony,

 

That's right!

 

I had a spare A3 SE Finecast tender and decided to use that to save a bit time. I had started 2 kits, the A2/2 and A2/3 in May and time was running away with minimal progress due to domestic tasks my wife had suggested during the summer. Too much time on her hands due to the various lockdowns!

 

I noticed today from the photo that the tender was a bit lower towards the rear and measured it late this afternoon and found that it was just over half a millimetre too low so  I adjusted it this evening and it is now bang on. The A2/3 should hopefully be finished by the end of December then it is New Year painting, lining and weathering.

 

No time for wearying!

 

Eric

 

[Woodcock29]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Almost there now....................

 

 

Just a few bits and pieces to complete, including the steps.

 

The most time-consuming part of the build was removing the previously-applied glue. I know I've asked this question before, but why do instructions for metal kits (not that I read them) advise gluing the parts together, including etched pieces? 

It's looking good Tony. I've got one of these Model Loco versions to build that I picked up cheap in Qld some years ago. I built the DJH version many years ago. In fact I was running it only a few minutes ago on the LMS high level section of my layout as I've got our 'Wednesday Club' around for a running session here at the moment.

Andrew

[St Enodoc]

22 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

It's looking good Tony. I've got one of these Model Loco versions to build that I picked up cheap in Qld some years ago. I built the DJH version many years ago. In fact I was running it only a few minutes ago on the LMS high level section of my layout as I've got our 'Wednesday Club' around for a running session here at the moment.

Andrew

Good to hear the Wednesday Club is back in action. I'm optimistic that my "Third Saturday of Odd-numbered Months Club" will get going again in the new year.

[Michael Edge]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Almost there now....................

 

 

Just a few bits and pieces to complete, including the steps.

 

The most time-consuming part of the build was removing the previously-applied glue. I know I've asked this question before, but why do instructions for metal kits (not that I read them) advise gluing the parts together, including etched pieces? 

Because too many potential customers are terrified of soldering - but we always tell them our kits can't really be glued together.

[Michael Edge]

8 hours ago, Leander said:

So what's the origins of its 'underpinnings' please Mike? I assumed it was Model Loco Company / DJH?

I can't remember, my notes just say K's kit supplied and RG4c motor/Markits wheels - I did take a fair bit of care with it though, partly to prove that a good model can be made from a K's kit. That wasn't always true though, I did see more than a few kits which had been produced with obviously worn out moulds.

[landscapes]

9 hours ago, 60027Merlin said:

 

Tony,

 

That's right!

 

I had a spare A3 SE Finecast tender and decided to use that to save a bit time. I had started 2 kits, the A2/2 and A2/3 in May and time was running away with minimal progress due to domestic tasks my wife had suggested during the summer. Too much time on her hands due to the various lockdowns!

 

I noticed today from the photo that the tender was a bit lower towards the rear and measured it late this afternoon and found that it was just over half a millimetre too low so  I adjusted it this evening and it is now bang on. The A2/3 should hopefully be finished by the end of December then it is New Year painting, lining and weathering.

 

No time for wearying!

 

Eric

 

Hi Eric

 

Any chance of you posting some photos when you have finished the painting and weathering 

 

Regards

 

David