Wright writes.....

[Northmoor]

2 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

The GG1 is a striking looking locomotive but must have the worst driver's view of any electric loco ever built.

[APOLLO]

The GG1 was styled by Raymond Loewy, who also styled the Pennsy 6-4-4-6 monster above

 

 

 

Other stylists of American locos were Henry Dreyfuss, Otto Kuhler, Paul Cret etc.  Not my cup of tea. I like Brits & Niagaras in all their simplicity, muck and glory !!

 

 

 

 

 

Brit15

[drmditch]

4 hours ago, john new said:

My memory of doing a bit of winter P Way work the NYMR way back in its early days when I lived up that way is that the bridge we were working on didn't have ballast on it. Way beams with an iron sheeted infill walkway. 

Track supported on waybeams was probably original for many metal bridges. Later as the NER and LNER rebuilt and strengthened bridges the structures on many were improved to take ballasted track.

[richard i]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

The GG1 is a striking looking locomotive but must have the worst driver's view of any electric loco ever built.

It is not as bad as you might imagine. At least from what I could tell from getting in the cab of one at Strasbourg PA. 
Richard  

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

Spot on so far, Tony (I'd expect nothing less). I'm doing a systematic trawl through all my books that feature Carlisle station or the lines running into it and logging each loco whenever it's on an identifiable working. So far, 60507 and 60519 have been 'spotted', both on the northbound 'Waverley' in 1958.

I've done something similar, Graham. I've got a spreadsheet listing locos identified as being in Cornwall in the 1950s - mostly from photos in books and on the web but sometimes just text references in articles such as some in Steam World earlier this year.

[69843]

Streamlining is an interestingly subject, and something only really flirted with down this end of the world. There were a few on different systems (the T1-style SAR 520s being the most numerous at 6), but it’s something that was never really needed out here. Apart from the VR S Class and Spirit of Progress in Victoria, there was never even really a matched train. 

 

 

3801 is probably the most well known Australian streamliner, but this was never really anything more than a styling stunt-out of the 30 C38s built, only the first 5 had casings. Recently restored, I enjoyed chasing it on trial recently with a couple of friends. Nothing says dedication like a 3am start to chase trains....

[St Enodoc]

32 minutes ago, 69843 said:

Streamlining is an interestingly subject, and something only really flirted with down this end of the world. There were a few on different systems (the T1-style SAR 520s being the most numerous at 6), but it’s something that was never really needed out here. Apart from the VR S Class and Spirit of Progress in Victoria, there was never even really a matched train. 

 

 

3801 is probably the most well known Australian streamliner, but this was never really anything more than a styling stunt-out of the 30 C38s built, only the first 5 had casings. Recently restored, I enjoyed chasing it on trial recently with a couple of friends. Nothing says dedication like a 3am start to chase trains....

I like the SAR 520 class too.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Australian_Railways_520_class

[robertcwp]

Black did not really suit the streamlined Coronations:

 

46243_c1948 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Bernard Lamb]

This is a real streamliner. There were 4 of them built by Robert Stephenson and Hawthorns for use in Iraqi. One was lost at sea. The class had a rather complex history mainly due to the political situation at the time. I have seen a colour shot and they were originally a rather pleasant shade of green. Photo from Wikipedia.

Bernard

[t-b-g]

27 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

This is a real streamliner. There were 4 of them built by Robert Stephenson and Hawthorns for use in Iraqi. One was lost at sea. The class had a rather complex history mainly due to the political situation at the time. I have seen a colour shot and they were originally a rather pleasant shade of green. Photo from Wikipedia.

Bernard

 

If the Gresley and Stanier streamliners ever mated, the offspring might have looked a bit like that.

 

[APOLLO]

9 hours ago, 69843 said:

Streamlining is an interestingly subject, and something only really flirted with down this end of the world. There were a few on different systems (the T1-style SAR 520s being the most numerous at 6), but it’s something that was never really needed out here. Apart from the VR S Class and Spirit of Progress in Victoria, there was never even really a matched train. 

 

 

3801 is probably the most well known Australian streamliner, but this was never really anything more than a styling stunt-out of the 30 C38s built, only the first 5 had casings. Recently restored, I enjoyed chasing it on trial recently with a couple of friends. Nothing says dedication like a 3am start to chase trains....

 

 This is a superb video of the above class of loco in service. 

 

 

Brit15

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by APOLLO

[69843]

19 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

 This is a superb video of the above class of loco in service. 

 

 

Brit15

 

I was half tempted to link that, but didn't want to clog the thread too much. 'A Steam Train Passes' is one of the all time best pieces of steam footage in my eye, and was filmed right in the middle of the NSW steam ban under a little bit of secrecy (Phillip Shirley to thank for that ban, just like the UK ban). For those unfamiliar with the locations, the shed right at the beginning is Enfield Roundhouse (composed of 3 houses), was in the middle of a goods yard which is in inner Western Sydney. The New South Wales Rail Transport Museum was housed there, but were kicked out by the Public Transport Commission to make way for a container yard that never quite materialised-once again, the work of Shirley and co.

For those with 20 minutes to spare, enjoy this pacing shot of the first and last of the class (3801 and 3830) climbing a 1-in-30 grade up from the South Coast to the Southern Highlands. As can be seen later, this was shot out the back of a hi-rail truck!

 

[Woodcock29]

9 hours ago, 69843 said:

Streamlining is an interestingly subject, and something only really flirted with down this end of the world. There were a few on different systems (the T1-style SAR 520s being the most numerous at 6), but it’s something that was never really needed out here. Apart from the VR S Class and Spirit of Progress in Victoria, there was never even really a matched train. 

Just a slight correction there were 12 in the South Australian 520 class. The first three had slightly different front end streamlining to the other nine.

 

Here's a photo of mine of the preserved class leader No 520 taken in 1975. Interestingly 520 hasn't run since the early 2000s but is currently under restoration but its likely to be quite some time before she runs again. Its understood she'll be restored to black livery which is favoured by enthusiasts. The green livery was however, her first livery when entering service in 1943.

 

 

 

The modified streamlined front end of the last nine of the class can be seen in this photo of 526 taken on my Box Brownie when I was 11 in 1967. 526 did originally have a stepped streamlined casing around the coupling, headstock and pilot (cowcatcher) but this was removed in the early 1960s I think.

 

Andrew 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Woodcock29

[69843]

5 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

Just a slight correction there were 12 in the South Australian 520 class. The first three had slightly different front end streamlining to the other nine.

Thank you for the correction Andrew-long week! And what a lovely shot of 526. A shame that she was scrapped after some lovely final moments on tours.

[MJI]

Didn't the LMS Pacific astound the USA with the amount of power from its small size?

[Woodcock29]

26 minutes ago, 69843 said:

Thank you for the correction Andrew-long week! And what a lovely shot of 526. A shame that she was scrapped after some lovely final moments on tours.

I have to say I came to tears when I saw photos of her being cut up in September 1971. She was definitely my favourite and I had many runs behind her in the late 60s with my father and we did go on her last run to Riverton on 24 April 1971. She was meant to be stored for spare parts I think but all that was saved were the driving wheels and the front casing.

 

We do of course have 523 preserved in the Australian NRM at Port Adelaide. But I never had a run behind 523 so I have little personal connection with her.  Its a bit like our modelling when you build a loco from a kit or scratch you have that strong personal connection just like if you've ridden behind a loco in real life.

 

Andrew

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Woodcock29
editorial

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, MJI said:

Didn't the LMS Pacific astound the USA with the amount of power from its small size?

That wouldn't have been difficult to do ... 

 

Riddles ended up doing most of the driving as the regular UK driver that went out there got taken ill. If anyone knew what it ('6220', nee 6229) could do it would be Riddles, as he was on the footplate of 6201's record run in Nov 1936 and the original 6220's harum-scarum run to Crewe and back in 1937.

[Bernard Lamb]

6 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

If the Gresley and Stanier streamliners ever mated, the offspring might have looked a bit like that.

 

You are by no means the first person to notice that. I wonder how much the designer (s) knew about the other machines. A pity that their was no incentive to get RSH to make one modified to UK requirements. 

To go back to the recent remarks by TW on exhibition comments. I can just imagine a layout with the Iraqi machine alongside a Stanier 8F and the "experts" in the crowd giving their version as to the origin of the machine and about the accuracy of the scene. 

Bernard

[t-b-g]

23 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

You are by no means the first person to notice that. I wonder how much the designer (s) knew about the other machines. A pity that their was no incentive to get RSH to make one modified to UK requirements. 

To go back to the recent remarks by TW on exhibition comments. I can just imagine a layout with the Iraqi machine alongside a Stanier 8F and the "experts" in the crowd giving their version as to the origin of the machine and about the accuracy of the scene. 

Bernard

 

There is no doubt that the designers would have been familiar with the LNER and the LMS streamliner designs. What surprised me, on looking them up, was that they were produced, for export, in either 1940 or 41 There seem to be different dates quoted, possibly built 1940 and the three that didn't get sent to the bottom of the sea arriving  going into traffic probably in 1941.

 

So when we were digging for victory and melting pans and iron railings down to make Spitfires, RSH were shipping "luxury" steam locos around the world.

 

 

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, t-b-g said:

If the Gresley and Stanier streamliners ever mated, the offspring might have looked a bit like that.

 

Now you've got me trying to think up "suitable" pairs of parents. Unfotunately the results of this thought process are not really postable. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Compound2632

[MikeParkin65]

52 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

There is no doubt that the designers would have been familiar with the LNER and the LMS streamliner designs. What surprised me, on looking them up, was that they were produced, for export, in either 1940 or 41 There seem to be different dates quoted, possibly built 1940 and the three that didn't get sent to the bottom of the sea arriving  going into traffic probably in 1941.

 

So when we were digging for victory and melting pans and iron railings down to make Spitfires, RSH were shipping "luxury" steam locos around the world.

 

 

Presumably there were political and strategic advantages in keeping the country 'on side'.

[Northmoor]

20 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Presumably there were political and strategic advantages in keeping the country 'on side'.

That was the overwhelming reason for the North Africa Campaign; keeping Germany away from the Middle East oil supply as they had almost no indigenous oil to support their Empire expansion.

[t-b-g]

36 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Presumably there were political and strategic advantages in keeping the country 'on side'.

 

Well in 1940 the Iraqi regime was anti British and we went to war with them in 1941. So sending them a few fancy locos didn't help much! 

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

There is no doubt that the designers would have been familiar with the LNER and the LMS streamliner designs. What surprised me, on looking them up, was that they were produced, for export, in either 1940 or 41 There seem to be different dates quoted, possibly built 1940 and the three that didn't get sent to the bottom of the sea arriving  going into traffic probably in 1941.

 

So when we were digging for victory and melting pans and iron railings down to make Spitfires, RSH were shipping "luxury" steam locos around the world.

 

 

As you say, strange things happen. The whole history of political relations with both Iran and Iraqi in particular and the Middle East in general has been very involved for a very long time. Railways have often been involved, going back to at least the time of TE Lawrence. Probably a topic best avoided on here. There must have been several UK Prime Ministers who woke up one morning wondering which side they should be supporting that day.

In that part of the world I think the oddest thing of a railway nature is, was? a Prussian G10 van preserved as a monument in Jerusalem.

Bernard

[Tony Wright]

The Second World War. Iraqi relationships. What next? This thread is nothing if not tangential!

 

Anyway, back to modelling and leaving politics to bores (well, most politicians bore me). 

 

I've got on with the donated Ivatt 4MT, so generously given by Beechnut (thanks again, Brendan). 

 

 

I should have looked more carefully inside the box, and discovered that the missing bits of valve gear were all there. Completing it was achieved without too much grief (though the expansion link on the offside is the wrong way round and it's securely fixed in place. Can I live with that? It probably won't be that conspicuous when weathered). 

 

It now runs rather well (after I'd sorted out a tight spot, by tweaking the quartering - they're friction-fit drivers). However, it's got plunger pick-ups and I dislike these almost as much as the drivers. Rather intermittent running............

 

 

Not a real problem, because Beechnut fitted jolly little tender pick-ups. I've just modified the connections to make them more efficient, and, lo and behold, it purrs along my yard of EM test track. 

 

The acid test will be how well it performs on Retford (hopefully, some time in the New Year). I'll complete it, paint it and hopefully Retford will be its home. I'll make a personal donation to CRUK. 

 

Thanks once again, Brendan. It's very well-made. 

 

I know Tony Geary made a Millholme 'Flying Pig', which ran on Leighford and Charwelton. I did photograph it, but it's on film. I think Tony found the build 'interesting'. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Tony Wright
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