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3 hours ago, rowanj said:

Morning Andrew.

We all play with trains for a variety of reasons. My layout, which at my age (71) is likely to be my last, was chosen to represent where I did my spotting in the late 50's\early 60's, and is all about personal nostalgia. It is also all my own work, so is time and cash limited to what I can do with it. So I,m afraid that, although I get as much right as I can,, worrying about what I got wrong is not high on my agenda.

I do read about things like train formations, and have " improved" mine over the last few years, but I'm not obsessive about it. Actually, I run the layout very little, much more modelling time and pleasure being spent at the work bench.

 

 

Good morning John,

 

what you set out to do with your layout comes across very well. The observer definitely gets an impression of your own spotting days. More than just nostalgia is represented, it is clear that a great deal of knowledge is recorded in your modelling. In addition, you are a maker of things, that adds another layer of interest for the observer. Stay safe and long may it continue.

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I have had the pleasure of visiting Tony W and seeing Little Bytham for myself but for a layout that I hadn't been to see personally, a set of photos like that would be a really great illustration of what I was banging on about earlier!

 

I am not saying that every photo of every layout should be like that but I do find shots like those hugely interesting.

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12 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

I am not saying that every photo of every layout should be like that but I do find shots like those hugely interesting.


I completely agree and this, IMHO, is where the print magazines are currently missing a trick in their illustration of layouts.

 

I understand the need for editors to make the best use of the available pages to show a layout off to its best.  But sometimes including a photo or two of, for want of a better description, the off-scene elements and how the layout fits into its setting would add to the overall description and illustration for the benefit of readers.  
 

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29 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I have had the pleasure of visiting Tony W and seeing Little Bytham for myself but for a layout that I hadn't been to see personally, a set of photos like that would be a really great illustration of what I was banging on about earlier!

 

I am not saying that every photo of every layout should be like that but I do find shots like those hugely interesting.

I have not had the pleasure of seeing Little Bytham 'in the flesh', but fully agree with Tony, Tony. From a design point of view, seeing how it all fits together I find fascinating. But also seeing those images where you try to work out if it is the model or the prototype are wonderful. As one who would love to get back into railway modelling, I find almost all comments on here (except mine) very helpful. With probably two house moves this year, one this month, it is as well that I do not have a delicate model to move as well as everything else.

 

Lloyd

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Tony, those photo’s of LB in its context are definitely worth showing, they are very informative.

 

Re: LB’s overall design, is there anything that you would change, with the benefit of hindsight?

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Wheel quartering, by company?
 

After an hour searching RMweb and Google, I am still trying to find the answer to a very simple question, which I am sure will be answered on this thread in seconds.
 

The kit instructions just say that the ‘wheels need quartering’. Great which way?
 

The kit is for a Lancashire and Yorkshire Class 23 0-6-0 saddle tank, later LMS and then BR.
 

I heave read that LMS locos quarter their wheels the opposite way to other companies (left hand lead?), so my question is if the left hand crank pins are a 12 O’clock, should the right cranks pins be at 9 O’clock or at 3 O’clock?
 

A secondary question, should I glue them in with cyano (Superglue/Rocket Cyano)? One of them keeps unscrewing, despite the connecting rods being OK on the other crank pins.
 

Thanks in advance.
 

Jamie

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It does not matter, you can’t see both sides of the loco at the same time. Just don’t put both at 12 or one at 12 and the other at 6 otherwise it will lurch or waddle down the track. If it is a three cylinder then they are set at 120 degrees on the real thing but as a model does not have an inside cylinder then on the model just put at 90 degrees.

richard

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32 minutes ago, Jamiel said:

Wheel quartering, by company?
 

After an hour searching RMweb and Google, I am still trying to find the answer to a very simple question, which I am sure will be answered on this thread in seconds.
 

The kit instructions just say that the ‘wheels need quartering’. Great which way?
 

The kit is for a Lancashire and Yorkshire Class 23 0-6-0 saddle tank, later LMS and then BR.
 

I heave read that LMS locos quarter their wheels the opposite way to other companies (left hand lead?), so my question is if the left hand crank pins are a 12 O’clock, should the right cranks pins be at 9 O’clock or at 3 O’clock?
 

A secondary question, should I glue them in with cyano (Superglue/Rocket Cyano)? One of them keeps unscrewing, despite the connecting rods being OK on the other crank pins.
 

Thanks in advance.
 

Jamie

The lead is in the forward direction of travel.   If left hand lead is correct then if the left hand crank pin is to the top then the right should be to the rear.  Not sure what you are asking with regard's unscrewing, do you mean the crank pin nuts?  If these are loosening is this because the crank pin bush is too short and the coupling rod is therefore hard up against the back of the crank pin nut and undoing it?  Personally I never use anything to lock the crank pin nut on to the pin although I know some others do such as using nail varnish.

 

As to the wheels themselves, when you are ready for final fit I recommend using Locktite 601 on the basis that the joint can then be broken in the future by twisting the wheel on the axle if you ever need to remove a wheel.  If you have used Superglue then there is a possibility that the spokes will give way before the wheel lets go of the axle.

 

Regards,

Frank

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2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

"If something you want isn't available (and no amount of keyboard bashing will guarantee that the RTR manufacturers will do so), then you could always have a go at producing it yourself or working with an existing supplier to create it."

 

 

For example, see the threads relating to Churminster & Stowe Magna in 'Layout Topics'

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Thanks for the replies.
 

I know that both sides are not visible at the same time, but since quartering is something I have seen written about, and am sure that the LMS, and possibly its component companies, did differently it is worth getting right.
 

Class23_025.jpg

 

This is the crank pin nut that is unscrewing, it does this if I swap the connecting rods from the other side so it is the pin, not the rods. All the others are fine in the various combinations I can try.
 

I could solder or glue, it just doesn’t want to screw in and stay.
 

Jamie

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4 minutes ago, Jamiel said:

Thanks for the replies.
 

I know that both sides are not visible at the same time, but since quartering is something I have seen written about, and am sure that the LMS, and possibly its component companies, did differently it is worth getting right.
 

Class23_025.jpg

 

This is the crank pin nut that is unscrewing, it does this if I swap the connecting rods from the other side so it is the pin, not the rods. All the others are fine in the various combinations I can try.
 

I could solder or glue, it just doesn’t want to screw in and stay.
 

Jamie

Jamie, fit it with a bit of loctite in the thread.. but be quick doing it!.

 

 

That isn't a "nut" it is the crankpin itself. 

Baz

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4 minutes ago, Jamiel said:

Thanks for the replies.
 

I know that both sides are not visible at the same time, but since quartering is something I have seen written about, and am sure that the LMS, and possibly its component companies, did differently it is worth getting right.
 

Class23_025.jpg

 

This is the crank pin nut that is unscrewing, it does this if I swap the connecting rods from the other side so it is the pin, not the rods. All the others are fine in the various combinations I can try.
 

I could solder or glue, it just doesn’t want to screw in and stay.
 

Jamie

Jamie

Swap it with another wheel, and see if it stays in place, or if the new one in the centre wheel also comes loose. It may be that a thread somewhere is slightly worn. either in the wheel or on the crankpin. I use superglue on the odd occasion this happens, and it is often on the axle, usually the middle one, where the motor/ gearbox exerts pressure on moving the coupling rods. 

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2 hours ago, FarrMan said:

I have not had the pleasure of seeing Little Bytham 'in the flesh', but fully agree with Tony, Tony. From a design point of view, seeing how it all fits together I find fascinating. But also seeing those images where you try to work out if it is the model or the prototype are wonderful. As one who would love to get back into railway modelling, I find almost all comments on here (except mine) very helpful. With probably two house moves this year, one this month, it is as well that I do not have a delicate model to move as well as everything else.

 

Lloyd

Good afternoon Lloyd,

 

When we 'get back to normal', may I please extend an invitation to you (and friends) to visit Little Bytham?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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2 hours ago, Jamiel said:

Wheel quartering, by company?
 

After an hour searching RMweb and Google, I am still trying to find the answer to a very simple question, which I am sure will be answered on this thread in seconds.
 

The kit instructions just say that the ‘wheels need quartering’. Great which way?
 

The kit is for a Lancashire and Yorkshire Class 23 0-6-0 saddle tank, later LMS and then BR.
 

I heave read that LMS locos quarter their wheels the opposite way to other companies (left hand lead?), so my question is if the left hand crank pins are a 12 O’clock, should the right cranks pins be at 9 O’clock or at 3 O’clock?
 

A secondary question, should I glue them in with cyano (Superglue/Rocket Cyano)? One of them keeps unscrewing, despite the connecting rods being OK on the other crank pins.
 

Thanks in advance.
 

Jamie

 

Good afternoon Jamiel,

 

most two cylinder locomotives had right hand lead, I'm not sure about the L&Y class 23. However, best to check if you want to get it correct, it is after all an L&Y locomotive, not an LMS one. The Worth valley railway and the East Lancs both have L&Y 2 cylinder Barton Wright locomotives, including your saddle tank, perhaps it would be worth a phone call. Failing that, there is the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway society who may be able to help.

 

The Worth Valley Railway also has a beautiful set of L&Y carriages and there is also the vintage carriage trust.

 

https://www.vintagecarriagestrust.org/

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22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Now, a coach quickie....................

 

Lockdown (again) has prompted me to investigate dusty boxes to see what's in them and what needs doing. 

 

In one, I found this................

 

I've just altered/repainted this Bachmann Mk.1 RB. Is it the old Mainline one, just re-hashed? 

 

1334063050_Mk1RB01.jpg.a2b0255ca4f10afb6d0d3dd8dca51d70.jpg

 

I'm not even sure how, why or when I acquired it, but it was a bit rough (it might have been from a collection years ago).

 

I tidied it up, attended to any damage and replaced the original Commonwealth bogies with re-wheeled Bachmann B1 types (along with the prototype of this diagram, several others were allocated to the ER with, I believe, the original-style bogies).

 

1259992985_Mk1RB02.jpg.b8f519558bed4b2dee91df6a9b2fc722.jpg

 

Definitely a 'layout coach' (I've yet to find a suitable train to put it in), but something a little different.

 

I believe Hornby is to release the same diagram. No doubt it'll be far superior, but this is cheap and cheerful....................... 

 

The different colours are down to different cameras and different lighting.

 

 

 

The old Mainline model, the first high detailed Mark 1 model.

 

The Eastern region mainly had RUs, this is a RB, and most were built with Commonwealth bogies, except 1700-38

 

The one you have was built 61-62 on Commonwealths, most of the ER ones were the same batch.

 

The ER had quite a few RUs on Gresley bogies in late 50s

 

The oldest of these is 1960 originally on BR1 or BR2 but soon rebogied with B4s or Commonwealths.

 

I'd put the wheels in the original bogies and ignore the year out of place.

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Thanks again everyone.

Crank pin glued in with Rocket Cyano, thanks Barry. I am pretty sure the wheel has poor threads, as I swapped the cranks around as Rowanj suggested.

Thanks also to Headstock for the suggestion of contacting the Worth Valley and East Lancs Railways, but I have been outside today and given the temperature I don't think they would take too kindly to being asked today. I have gone for left hand lead, and live in hope that is correct. As Richard said, you can’t see both sides at once anyway, but still nice to get right.

The good news is that with the wheels, gearbox, crank pins and connecting rods all in place the wheels turn OK, no binding, no nasty complaints from the motor's sound. Just on my work bench for now.

I will solder the holding washers in place to hold the connecting rods and check again, but this build is more successful than my first brass loco so far.
 

I will post some pictures when it is ready for painting, and my experience of building this I think has shown me what the issues with the driving wheels on my first build was (A Comet Caprotti Black 5), so I will revisit that and see if I can fix it. If not, then no doubt I will contact Tony when life starts to come back to normal and see if it needs expert surgery.
 

Also thanks to Tony and everyone else for showing their work in this thread, as well as the members of Leeds MRS for your inspiration. Building brass kits, either steam locos, carriages, or in my case DMUs is very rewarding. I have yet to add wagons to that list, but am sure I will at some point.
 

Jamie

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Over Christmas I bought a cutter plotter.

 

My plans are to use it to produce glazing for some of my carriages, the first were failures due to too thick to cut.

 

I now have a pack of 10thou to produce DMU sides.

 

I have started on standard Swindon windows, and first will be a cross country 120 DMU, and if that works I am going to have a go at the 1950s Inter City stock in Western Region form, managed to find pictures or 3 different sets one is normal cab first corridor cab, one is corridor cab buffet normal cab, and final is 2 corridor cabs.

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For a layout as large as Little Bytham I do feel that a 'how it's designed' type article is justifiable. Especially as it's one which never leaves home and is designed to make as much use of the given space as possible. I do like how you've managed to add in as many sidings as possible in the fiddle yard to give as much variety as possible to the operating sequence. 

 

For many layouts, a single overall image of their setting at home alongside the prototypical images normally seen would be sufficient to help people understand how it fits into it's home location.  Of course there are those layouts which only ever get set up at exhibitions.

 

Thank you for taking those images Tony :)

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

As promised, some 'educational' views of Little Bytham.................

 

1951677575_educationalviews01.jpg.2ecde21bd787176bfd88fc3858406371.jpg

 

Looking south. 

 

When the sequence is run with four operators, the Down driver sits at this side.

 

1503827316_educationalviews02.jpg.bf46230f89213a7040a5ba3b5b447ebf.jpg

 

Nearer to the station. 

 

The Down kick-back sidings are just visible to the right behind the backscene (which is not attached to the layout). There's just enough room for the non-obese to get in between the layout and the backscene, for routine maintenance purposes and photography. 

 

1877174986_educationalviews03.jpg.e2017c23c9b3acf8f7c5b7b7d915da2c.jpg

 

678549701_educationalviews04.jpg.2fec9fd986134a31f5bdd6f0f83e28a5.jpg

 

Two views of the MR/M&GNER section and its relationship to the main line, including two Up kick-back sidings for the GN. 

 

It's definitely designed for one-person operation! 

 

Spare locos and stock abound. 

 

1305290929_educationalviews05.jpg.db0698d6258fe4ea1496e8de4f7ef815.jpg

 

The full width (12') of the MR/M&GNR section. The end curves are really much too tight, but the decision whether to have a working railway or just a static, scenic break has been discussed before. Anyway, since most trains on it are slow and short, the compromise is lessened. 

 

1718442067_educationalviews06.jpg.4e38d04b0d89268cf3daeb4da84245c6.jpg

 

The lifting section and part of the cassette system.

 

For consistent good running, large-radius points have been mainly used in the GN fiddle yard, giving the smoothest transitions. 

 

1467055482_educationalviews07.jpg.eba762cc26efb2faf4c6505c31b742e2.jpg

 

Looking south down the 'spine', with the main GN fiddle yard to the left. 

 

927948741_educationalviews08.jpg.baf91de3a6f0a18bfb0dbb6c49701c2a.jpg

 

One visitor was just too fat to get through this gap! 

 

The bulge-out was essential to accommodate The Willoughby. In fact, the full width here was necessary to capture the 'sprawl' of Little Bytham. 

 

1309560305_educationalviews09.jpg.ecbff26e279ecac18f12632d278c134f.jpg

 

Looking north, the various relationships are evident. 

 

Even more spare locos and stock are present for the GN. The drawers and shelves are full!

 

The little levers sticking out from the backscene to the left control the ground signals (thanks Roy and Ray). 

 

22507026_educationalviews10.jpg.206a585656f3146c956ed2e846a5d152.jpg

 

The fiddle yard operator's position. 

 

Even more spare locos! 

 

1281389486_educationalviews11.jpg.7478d2f4aca253c74a5177589cf7ee6c.jpg

 

The sequence cards and the 'maintenance' bit. The Gaugmaster controller, as well as providing a rolling road and power to the test track also controls the Down kick-back sidings. 

 

I hope the above pictures answer the questions being recently asked (I've discovered I'm a contortionist!), but I dislike several of them because of the distortions caused by having to use an 18mm lens in places. 

 

Would some be used in a potential article? Possibly, though I still prefer to manipulate 'realistic' images. 

 

Any comments welcome, please......................

 

 

 

Nice legs.

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3 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I have had the pleasure of visiting Tony W and seeing Little Bytham for myself but for a layout that I hadn't been to see personally, a set of photos like that would be a really great illustration of what I was banging on about earlier!

 

I am not saying that every photo of every layout should be like that but I do find shots like those hugely interesting.

I think the pleasure was mine, Tony,

 

Given that on your last two visits you fixed a Fulgurex point motor and installed the M&GNR signals.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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3 hours ago, Chamby said:

Tony, those photo’s of LB in its context are definitely worth showing, they are very informative.

 

Re: LB’s overall design, is there anything that you would change, with the benefit of hindsight?

An interesting question, Phil,

 

To which the answer is no. 

 

That's not to say it couldn't be better, but given the constraints of the layout's footprint, I think the design has exploited what's available. 

 

Of course, an extra couple of feet in the length would have enabled it to be 'dead scale', and six more feet in the width would have meant a more-realistic MR/M&GNR section, as well as a wider fiddle yard. But, we always want more, and I'm very satisfied with how it's turned out. Of course, the prototype track layout dictated what was required on the scenic section, especially the need for it to 'breath'. Real railway installations are often as wide as they are long, and too much width restriction can reduce realism (hence the 'thin' bit in the operating well). 

 

I could build more cassettes, but I'm never happy with the notion of these. The risk of stock damage is present, and they're a bit of a fag to use. 

 

So, all in all, a success?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, Jamiel said:

Thanks for the replies.
 

I know that both sides are not visible at the same time, but since quartering is something I have seen written about, and am sure that the LMS, and possibly its component companies, did differently it is worth getting right.
 

Class23_025.jpg

 

This is the crank pin nut that is unscrewing, it does this if I swap the connecting rods from the other side so it is the pin, not the rods. All the others are fine in the various combinations I can try.
 

I could solder or glue, it just doesn’t want to screw in and stay.
 

Jamie

Jamie,

 

When the pin is screwed in as far as it'll go, put a small bead of viscous superglue on to where it protrudes through the rear of the wheel. Not enough so that it penetrates the thread, but a sort of small 'dome'. That will hold it in general service, but it should break were you ever wanting to remove the pin in the future.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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