Wright writes.....

[APOLLO]

13 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

So, all in all, a success?

 

Ten out of ten from me Tony. A superb layout in all respects.

 

Brit15

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

 

The old Mainline model, the first high detailed Mark 1 model.

 

The Eastern region mainly had RUs, this is a RB, and most were built with Commonwealth bogies, except 1700-38

 

The one you have was built 61-62 on Commonwealths, most of the ER ones were the same batch.

 

The ER had quite a few RUs on Gresley bogies in late 50s

 

The oldest of these is 1960 originally on BR1 or BR2 but soon rebogied with B4s or Commonwealths.

 

I'd put the wheels in the original bogies and ignore the year out of place.

Thanks Martin,

 

According to Parkin, RBs nos 1700, 1663-99 and 1714-5 were originally allocated to the ER. 

 

I'll just change the number...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

3 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

Ten out of ten from me Tony. A superb layout in all respects.

 

Brit15

Many thanks,

 

But remember it's the work of quite a few highly-talented modellers. It's certainly not a 'one man band'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[MJI]

12 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Martin,

 

According to Parkin, RBs nos 1700, 1663-99 and 1714-5 were originally allocated to the ER. 

 

I'll just change the number...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

1700 is slightly different as it was a prototype, so I suppose 14 or 15 then?

 

The one it is is OK if Commonwealths fitted

[FarrMan]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Lloyd,

 

When we 'get back to normal', may I please extend an invitation to you (and friends) to visit Little Bytham?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony

 

Many thanks for such an invitation to someone that you have never met, and who is not able to contribute anything. It is very much appreciated. I hope to take you up on it next time I am in the South, but that looks as though it is a while off yet.

 

Lloyd

[LNER4479]

Whilst the prototypical formations discussion is reasonably current(!), perhaps I can fly the flag for the LMR to compare and contrast with the ER posts:

 

'The Royal Scot' circa 1953 in 'Festival of Britain' guise. Reduced slightly from 13 to 11 vehicles, simply by losing one each of TK and TO from the front section of the train (I refer to them as 'Thirds' not 'Seconds' in the Blood n Custard era). Nine of the vehicles are standard RTR offerings; the tricky bit - as always - is the catering core, in this case 'solved' by Comet sides on Lima bodies for the full kitchen car and the Rest. Third (to go with the RTR Rest. First <-- one of the more bizarre RTR offerings, IMHO, cos it's meaningless on its own).

 

The Midday Scot c.1955. This is a monster train in its full guise (up to 17 vehicles); however, it did run with a portion so, by simply losing that, we have a more manageable train. Depending on the time of year, it ran without the separate portion (or at least there are several pictures showing it running like this). This train is even easier from a RTR point of view as the catering core is shown with standard FO and TO vehicles. The heart of the catering core still causes a problem however; in this case solved with a Comet D.1697, built by Mr. Duck; painted by me. Probably should be a Stanier equivalent but at least it's the right type of vehicle. Erroneously depicted as the rear vehicle is a Choc./cream BCK as the Plymouth through coach. Erroneous as Choc./cream wouldn't have been until at least 1957 and even more erroneous because it I've now realised that it wasn't even conveyed on this train in the Up direction!! (it was more usually two vehicles but a BCK can represent it in my book)

 

1950s Liverpool/Manchester-Glasgow ... or it might actually be a Liverpool-Glasgow/Edinburgh (I think it was Andrew who mentioned this train or one like it). By complete contrast this was all LMS stock in the 1950s so much more of a challenge. Formation-wise, there's a strengthener at the front (a delightful PdII offering by Barry O of this parish), then the Glasgow portion of six vehicles, including the catering vehicle (in this case, the Hornby nee Dapol offering does the job nicely here), with the four coach Edinburgh portion bringing up the rear. So four brake vehicles in the consist. It should be 13 vehicles, so again slight compression without losing the character of the train. Seven RTR and four kit / conversions. (two by Barry; two by Tom D)

 

Late 1950s Birmingham-Glasgow. I don't yet have the definitive formation information for this train so this is based on pictures. Most pictures do however show a consistent eight vehicle core consist so that's what I've gone for. A full brake plus all Third strengtheners at the front seems to be something the West Coast had a bit of a penchant for; their addition makes for a pleasing looking train. Again, the catering car is a problem; again solved by a Comet kit build, a magnificent Stanier 12-wheel RTKit by Iain Henderson (92220 of this parish). In fact at least half the coaches in this train are Iain's at the present time; the second vehicle is another Barry O build.

 

The Caledonian in its first year or so of running. Six RTR; one kit build; one conversion. Guess what? Yep, the kitchen car is one of them, a Stanier 50ft vehicle this time (92220 again). At least Hornby's new Coronation Scot vehicles offers the hope that such a vehicle will be available RTR in the future. This train is not fully correct yet as the rear vehicle was - famously - a pre-war Stanier Brake First. So that needs tackling at some point.

(no idea where the loco came from ... )

 

Finally - for now - the late 1950s Waverley (obviously not seen on Shap!) One coach reduced from its usual booked nine (some pictures do in fact show it as just eight vehicles, probably in the winter time). 100% RTR! And all of the correct type, I believe? Pictures show the catering vehicle types dancing about a bit. This is again the Dapol (this one really is a Dapol one!) RCKit. I think someone on here mentioned that the caterer was only acting as a buffet rather than full meal service (or at least there was a period when that happened).

 

My one obvious train missing at the moment is the Thames-Clyde Express, which I fancy in c.1954 condition (then the S&C route on my Carlisle scheme layout will have one of each in terms of the livery of its two principal expresses).

 

Conclusion? Not too dissimilar from the East Coast route. Quite a bit of use can be made of RTR but the catering core is usually the challenge. My own personal 'wish list' vehicle is for a RTR Stanier 12-wheel restaurant car ... but which one? Probably the Third (Second) as the most common type ... and a CO to go with it!

 

(apologies for picture quality on one or two - they were taken 'live' at the Glasgow show, with the trains actually moving! It was the first time some of these trains were running in their full formation - most have remained in their boxes since)

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by LNER4479

[Barry O]

Red Leader mentioned about building coaches, well I have been testing some of mine on my new layout. RTR coaches at the rear of this set.. but it shows how many different ex LMS vehicles you can put together from kits.

 

Apologies for the two Bachmann EE Type 1s on the front.. they  were "to hand" for testing.

Baz

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

Whilst the prototypical formations discussion is reasonably current(!), perhaps I can fly the flag for the LMR to compare and contrast with the ER posts:

 

'The Royal Scot' circa 1953 in 'Festival of Britain' guise. Reduced slightly from 13 to 11 vehicles, simply by losing one each of TK and TO from the front section of the train (I refer to them as 'Thirds' not 'Seconds' in the Blood n Custard era). Nine of the vehicles are standard RTR offerings; the tricky bit - as always - is the catering core, in this case 'solved' by Comet sides on Lima bodies for the full kitchen car and the Rest. Third (to go with the RTR Rest. First <-- one of the more bizarre RTR offerings, IMHO, cos it's meaningless on its own).

 

 

The Caledonian in its first year or so of running. Six RTR; one kit build; one conversion. Guess what? Yep, the kitchen car is one of them, a Stanier 50ft vehicle this time (92220 again). At least Hornby's new Coronation Scot vehicles offers the hope that such a vehicle will be available RTR in the future. This train is not fully correct yet as the rear vehicle was - famously - a pre-war Stanier Brake First. So that needs tackling at some point.

(no idea where the loco came from ... )

 

 

The Caledonian had a porthole BFK, available RTR from Bachmann. 

 

I think Bachmann may have done the RFO (of which there were 11) because the side is the same as the compartment side of an FK, which would have reduced the tooling cost. They have also done it as the Diag 71 FO, of which there were only three.

 

Once Hornby does the Stanier RK and the Coronation Scot carriages in BR liveries, the catering sections of LMR trains will become even easier. As it is, the Bachmann porthole FO is useful. There were nine Coronation Scot RTOs, the only Period III open thirds with 2+1 seating, and these were often used as restaurant cars in the 1950s. Don't forget also that Hornby does the 48-seat Mark 1 open third/second, also a common restaurant car type on the LMR.

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by robertcwp
Add a bit.

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

The Caledonian had a porthole BFK, available RTR from Bachmann. 

 

I think Bachmann may have done the RFO (of which there were 11) because the side is the same as the compartment side of an FK, which would have reduced the tooling cost. They have also done it as the Diag 71 FO, of which there were only three.

 

Once Hornby does the Stanier RK and the Coronation Scot carriages in BR liveries, the catering sections of LMR trains will become even easier. As it is, the Bachmann porthole FO is useful. There were nine Coronation Scot RTOs, the only Period III open thirds with 2+1 seating, and these were often used as restaurant cars in the 1950s. Don't forget also that Hornby does the 48-seat Mark 1 open third/second, also a common restaurant car type on the LMR.

 

Thanks Robert,

 

I hesitate to take issue with such a luminary as yourself on your specialist subject but are you absolutely sure about the Caledonian BFK? Everything I've read and seen about the train indicates that it was a pre-war Stanier BFK (tarted up especially!) that was in the formation, at least for the first season (1957). It is often commented upon as such by those who (usually) know what they're talking about, as you would have thought that a port hole would have been a much more obvious choice. Maybe we're into that murky area of spare vehicles and last minute replacements when a failure occurs?

 

If it IS a porthole then, like you say, problem solved!

 

I'm away to recheck my references right now ...

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

Thanks Robert,

 

I hesitate to take issue with such a luminary as yourself on your specialist subject but are you absolutely sure about the Caledonian BFK? Everything I've read and seen about the train indicates that it was a pre-war Stanier BFK (tarted up especially!) that was in the formation, at least for the first season (1957). It is often commented upon as such by those who (usually) know what they're talking about, as you would have thought that a port hole would have been a much more obvious choice. Maybe we're into that murky area of spare vehicles and last minute replacements when a failure occurs?

 

If it IS a porthole then, like you say, problem solved!

 

I'm away to recheck my references right now ...

This looks like it's a porthole BFK to me but even on the full size image I can't be 100% sure as I can't clearly make out the shape of the window opposite the lavatory, although the door and window layout is correct. There is also an FO second carriage in the train, which shows this is from early in the life of the service:

 

46240_up-Caledonian by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

There is a Derek Cross colour photo of the train with a porthole BFK but that looks more like 1958 or 1959 as the train includes an FK whereas it had 2xFO in 1957.

 

A Hornby catalogue a few years back somewhat strangely included a BR official photo of the Caledonian stock which I think included a porthole BFK, but I can't currently lay my hands on it.

 

I can't guarantee it was a porthole in 1957 and could have been an older one then.  The summer 1957 carriage working show it as BSK(24), 3 SO(48), RK, 2 FO(42), BFK(30), all BR standard except the RK and BFK.  Best thing to do is find photos of the train that are clearly from 1957.

 

Edit: to add to the above, it can only be a porthole in the photo as the pre-war BFKs were shorter and only had four bodylights on the corridor side and no middle door. Also, the carriage workings essentially specify a porthole BFK as they were the only ones with 30 seats.

 

Dave Peel's book on Locomotive Headboards has a good photo from June 1958 of the rear of the train with a porthole BFK, complete with Caledonian gangway endboard.

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by robertcwp
Add a bit.

[Willie Whizz]

21 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

...

 

The East coast mainline, is a big  subject for the average individual modeler to tackle. Even a life times work such as LB only scratches the surface in many respects. If passenger train formations are you thing, I would think it better for most to reign in their ambitions and look for something that is more easily doable. A case in point might be Clems work on the Grantham Nottingham Derby lines. That  area has a wonderful set of 'normal house' sized carriage formations* and some interesting motive power.

 

*Even some formations To and from KX.

Sounds interesting - could you point us at where that might be found, please?

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Whilst the prototypical formations discussion is reasonably current(!), perhaps I can fly the flag for the LMR to compare and contrast with the ER posts:

 

'The Royal Scot' circa 1953 in 'Festival of Britain' guise. Reduced slightly from 13 to 11 vehicles, simply by losing one each of TK and TO from the front section of the train (I refer to them as 'Thirds' not 'Seconds' in the Blood n Custard era). Nine of the vehicles are standard RTR offerings; the tricky bit - as always - is the catering core, in this case 'solved' by Comet sides on Lima bodies for the full kitchen car and the Rest. Third (to go with the RTR Rest. First <-- one of the more bizarre RTR offerings, IMHO, cos it's meaningless on its own).

 

The Midday Scot c.1955. This is a monster train in its full guise (up to 17 vehicles); however, it did run with a portion so, by simply losing that, we have a more manageable train. Depending on the time of year, it ran without the separate portion (or at least there are several pictures showing it running like this). This train is even easier from a RTR point of view as the catering core is shown with standard FO and TO vehicles. The heart of the catering core still causes a problem however; in this case solved with a Comet D.1697, built by Mr. Duck; painted by me. Probably should be a Stanier equivalent but at least it's the right type of vehicle. Erroneously depicted as the rear vehicle is a Choc./cream BCK as the Plymouth through coach. Erroneous as Choc./cream wouldn't have been until at least 1957 and even more erroneous because it I've now realised that it wasn't even conveyed on this train in the Up direction!! (it was more usually two vehicles but a BCK can represent it in my book)

 

1950s Liverpool/Manchester-Glasgow ... or it might actually be a Liverpool-Glasgow/Edinburgh (I think it was Andrew who mentioned this train or one like it). By complete contrast this was all LMS stock in the 1950s so much more of a challenge. Formation-wise, there's a strengthener at the front (a delightful PdII offering by Barry O of this parish), then the Glasgow portion of six vehicles, including the catering vehicle (in this case, the Hornby nee Dapol offering does the job nicely here), with the four coach Edinburgh portion bringing up the rear. So four brake vehicles in the consist. It should be 13 vehicles, so again slight compression without losing the character of the train. Seven RTR and four kit / conversions. (two by Barry; two by Tom D)

 

Late 1950s Birmingham-Glasgow. I don't yet have the definitive formation information for this train so this is based on pictures. Most pictures do however show a consistent eight vehicle core consist so that's what I've gone for. A full brake plus all Third strengtheners at the front seems to be something the West Coast had a bit of a penchant for; their addition makes for a pleasing looking train. Again, the catering car is a problem; again solved by a Comet kit build, a magnificent Stanier 12-wheel RTKit by Iain Henderson (92220 of this parish). In fact at least half the coaches in this train are Iain's at the present time; the second vehicle is another Barry O build.

 

The Caledonian in its first year or so of running. Six RTR; one kit build; one conversion. Guess what? Yep, the kitchen car is one of them, a Stanier 50ft vehicle this time (92220 again). At least Hornby's new Coronation Scot vehicles offers the hope that such a vehicle will be available RTR in the future. This train is not fully correct yet as the rear vehicle was - famously - a pre-war Stanier Brake First. So that needs tackling at some point.

(no idea where the loco came from ... )

 

Finally - for now - the late 1950s Waverley (obviously not seen on Shap!) One coach reduced from its usual booked nine (some pictures do in fact show it as just eight vehicles, probably in the winter time). 100% RTR! And all of the correct type, I believe? Pictures show the catering vehicle types dancing about a bit. This is again the Dapol (this one really is a Dapol one!) RCKit. I think someone on here mentioned that the caterer was only acting as a buffet rather than full meal service (or at least there was a period when that happened).

 

My one obvious train missing at the moment is the Thames-Clyde Express, which I fancy in c.1954 condition (then the S&C route on my Carlisle scheme layout will have one of each in terms of the livery of its two principal expresses).

 

Conclusion? Not too dissimilar from the East Coast route. Quite a bit of use can be made of RTR but the catering core is usually the challenge. My own personal 'wish list' vehicle is for a RTR Stanier 12-wheel restaurant car ... but which one? Probably the Third (Second) as the most common type ... and a CO to go with it!

 

(apologies for picture quality on one or two - they were taken 'live' at the Glasgow show, with the trains actually moving! It was the first time some of these trains were running in their full formation - most have remained in their boxes since)

 

Lovely stuff, Graham,

 

Thanks for showing us. Let's hope it won't be too long before we can see them running again.....................

 

Nice to see 70054 on an appropriate train.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

28 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

This looks like it's a porthole BFK to me but even on the full size image I can't be 100% sure as I can't clearly make out the shape of the window opposite the lavatory, although the door and window layout is correct. There is also an FO second carriage in the train, which shows this is from early in the life of the service:

 

46240_up-Caledonian by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

There is a Derek Cross colour photo of the train with a porthole BFK but that looks more like 1958 or 1959 as the train includes an FK whereas it had 2xFO in 1957.

 

A Hornby catalogue a few years back somewhat strangely included a BR official photo of the Caledonian stock which I think included a porthole BFK, but I can't currently lay my hands on it.

 

I can't guarantee it was a porthole in 1957 and could have been an older one then.  The summer 1957 carriage working show it as BSK(24), 3 SO(48), RK, 2 FO(42), BFK(30), all BR standard except the RK and BFK.  Best thing to do is find photos of the train that are clearly from 1957.

 

Edit: to add to the above, it can only be a porthole in the photo as the pre-war BFKs were shorter and only had four bodylights on the corridor side and no middle door. Also, the carriage workings essentially specify a porthole BFK as they were the only ones with 30 seats.

 

Dave Peel's book on Locomotive Headboards has a good photo from June 1958 of the rear of the train with a porthole BFK, complete with Caledonian gangway endboard.

 

Great picture, Robert,

 

Where is it taken, please? Tring?

 

I presume CITY OF COVENTRY is still in green livery, judging by the early emblem? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

On the subject of train formations, here are my rough notes on formations I run on my layout (not all at once!). The layout moves through time periods over the course of a couple of years or so. It is currently at 1969. It is not based on any prototype and is more or less a run what I like layout but I try to aim for a mix of WR and LMR trains and to use real formations where possible. 

 

Circa 1958-60

WR side

Mark I chocolate & cream set: Torbay Express, Cambrian Coast Express or Royal Duchy (Line 9)
1958-9 Torbay Express: BSK, SK, SK, SO, RU, FK, CK, BSK (can omit one SK, dated)
1958-9 Royal Duchy: BSK, SK, SO, RU, FK, BSK, CK, BSK
1958-9 CCE: BSK, SK, FK, RU, FK, SK, BSK

Devonian set: BSK(Y), SK, SK, SO(64), RF, CK, CK, SK, BSK (Line 4)

Parcels and secondary passenger on Line 6

Relief or ECS 8-car on Line 8, or two short trains

Freight Lines 3, 5, 7 (middle) and 10. Unit Line 7. Push-pull Line 7 (for terminus).

LMR side

SR through set (8) – either Maunsell 8-set or Maunsell 6-set plus dining

GC set (8):

·         Marylebone-Manchester Thompson/Gresley: BSK, SK, SK, SO, RF, FK, CK, BSK

·         Saturday Cutler: BSK*, TSO*, SK*, SK*, RSP, RF, FO, BCK*

·         Short South Yorkshireman: BCK*, CK*, SK*, BSK*, RSP, RF, CK*, BSK*

8.52 am Bradford-St Pancras (8): BSK, FK, CK, CK, RF(Y) (RC(Y) substitutes), SO(64), SK, BSK

8.40 am Euston-Wolverhampton (shortened, approximate) (8): BSK(Y), CK, SO(64), SO(64), RF(Y) (RC(Y) substitutes) FO(Y), FK(p/h FK can substitute), BFK(Y)

Ex-Cutler (SX): BSK, SK, TSO, TSO, RF(g), FO(t), BCK

8.50 pm (SO) Bradford-St Pancras (7): BG, BG, BG, BSK, CK, SK, SK (Class A Stock). Formation from Leicester

6.57 am Cleethorpes-Birmingham (5 or 6): BSK, SK, CK, SK, BSK, SK(MSO) Class A Stock

6.10 am Derby-Bristol (formation MSX) (6): BSK, CK, BSK, 3 SK (LMS Stock)

10.05 am Leicester-St Pancras (7): SK(SX), S(SO), BSK, CK, BSK, BSK, CK, BSK

Excursion set (7)

Parcels (6)

2×Parcels (4), non-gangwayed (4), gangwayed (4)

Long DMU or BP (6)

Circa 1961-3

WR side

1.15 pm Paddington-Weston-super-Mare (Summer 1961, SX) (8): BCK, SK, SK, SO, RU, FK, FK, BCK
10.45 am Paddington-WSM (Winter 1961-2 SX) (8): BSK, SK, CK, SO, RB, FK, SK, BSK; (Winter 1962-3 SX) (8): BSK, SK, SK, CK, SO, RU (or RB?), FK, SK – RB in Summer 1963.

10.45 am Paddington-WSM (Winter 1963-4 SX) (8): BSK, SK, SK, SO, RB, FK, CK, BSK

3.15 pm Paddington-Hereford (1961-2) (8): BSK, SK, SK, FK, RB, SO, CK, BSK

Pembroke Coast Express 1961-2 (9): BSK, SK, FK, SK, RU, FO, FK, CK, BSK

Cathedrals Express 1961-2 (north of Oxford) (9): BSK, SK, SK, FK, BCK, SK, FK, RB, BSO

Cheltenham Spa Express 1961-2 (FX) (8): BSK, SK, SK, SO, RU, FK, FK, BCK

10.38 am Bradford-Paignton (Devonian) 1962-3 (9): BSK, SK, SK, SO, RB, CK, CK, SK, BSK

9.45 am Paddington-Weston-super-Mare (1963-4) (SX) (8): BSK, SK, SK, SK, RMB, FK, CK, BSK

7.15 pm Swindon-Sheffield Victoria (MWFO) (formation between Banbury and Leicester Central) (WR Stock) (5): BCK, BSK, BG, BG, PMV

6.46 am Gloucester Eastgate-Sheffield Midland (WR stock) (6): BSK, SK, CK, CK, SK, BSK.

LMR side

10.20 am Edinburgh-St Pancras The Waverley (formation north of Nottingham) (8): BSK, CK, CK, FK, RF, SO(64), SO(64), BSK

7.32 am Bradford-St Pancras (SX formation) (8): BSK, SO(64), SK, CK, CK, BSK, RB, CK

4.55 pm Penzance-Manchester (between Shrewsbury and Crewe) (8): BG, SK, CK, BSK, CK, SLCT, BG, BG(SX, not Mk1)

Bournemouth-York (8) SR green set

3.15 pm Cardiff-Leeds (7): BSK, SK, CK, RB, CK, SK, BSK (by 1963-4 Winter, was 3.20 pm, SKs replaced by TSOs)

10.15 pm Edinburgh-St Pancras (formation from Nottingham) (8 or 7): BG, SK, SK, SK(MFSO), CK, SLF, SLSTP, BG

12. 5 am Manchester Central-St Pancras (MX) (formation Derby-Leicester (7): BG, BG, BSK, SK, CK, BG, BG

6.35 am Birmingham-Bradford (6): BSK, SK, CK, CK, SK, BSK

6.25 pm Swansea Victoria-York (formation ex-Shrewsbury, SX) (6): POS, POS, BCK, BSK, SK, BG(not Mk1)

8.05 am (ThSX) Derby-Kettering (5): BSK, CK, BSK, CK, SK (LMS stock)

6.45 am Leicester Central-Sheffield Victoria (5): BSK, SK, CK, SK, BSK (LMS stock)

Circa 1965-6

WR side

1000 Paddington-Swansea (FX formation) (9): BG, SK, SK, SK, RB, FO, FK, FK, BSK

1515 Paddington-Hereford (8): BSK, SK, CK, SO(64), RU, FK, SK, BSK

1840 York-Swindon (Saturday formation): BG, BSK, CK, BSK, BG, PMV, PMV

Local formations: SK, SK, BCK (Mark 1); BSK, CK, SK, BSK (pre-nat)

LMR side

Waverley (8) 0905 St Pancras-Edinburgh (13 June to 1 October 1966); other dates is 0905 St Pancras-Leeds: BG, BSK, CK, SO(64), RF, SO(48), CK, BSK

Bournemouth-York (8) SR green set

1150 St Pancras-Bradford (8): SO(64), RU, CK, BSK, SO(64), FK, SO(64), BSK

West Coast set (shortened) (8) (1005 Euston-Glasgow ‘Royal Scot’ from 3 January 1966, MO formation shortened by 2): BSK, SK, SK, SO(64), RKB, FO, FK, BFK

1420 Cardiff-York (7): BSK, CK, SO(64), RMB, CK, SK, BSK

1320 St Pancras-Leicester (6): BSK, SO(64), CK, CK, SO(64), BSK

0010 (MO) Bristol-Manchester Piccadilly (2010 Sun ex-Plymouth) (7): BG, SK, CK, BSK, CK, SLCT, BG (add SLSTP between SLCT and BG until 20/9/65)

1911 Carlisle-Warrington (Class A stock) (SX formation) (6):  SK, SK, BSK, CK, BSK, GUV

GC semi-fast: BSK, CK, SK, BSK.

Also ex-LMS stock: BSK, SK, CK, SK, BSK and BSK, CK, BSK

Circa 1967-8

WR side

0800 Paddington-Swansea (FSX) (9): BG, TSO II, TSO II, TSO II, RB, FO, FK, FK, BSK

Paddington-Birmingham (8): BSK, FK, FK, RFO, RB, SK, BSK, SK

1915 Paddington-Cheltenham (8): BSK, SK, CK, RMB, CK, SK, BSK, BG

1315 Paddington-Hereford (7): SK, CK, BSK, FK, RU, TSO, SK

Torbay portion: FK, SK, BSK

33/1+4TC

Grey Pullman (8)

LMR side

1150 St Pancras-Bradford (8): SO(64), RU, CK, BSK, SO(64), FK, SO(64), BSK

1305 St Pancras-Sheffield (8): BSK, TSO, CK, RF, FO, CK, TSO, BSK (replace RF with RB for 1650 St Pancras-Nottingham)

1230 Manchester Central-St Pancras from Derby Thx formation (8): RF, FO, BSK, TSO, CK, CK, TSO, BSK

0110 Bristol-Sheffield (from Derby) (8): BG, BG, BG, BG, SK, CK, BSK, GUV

2156 Edinburgh-St Pancras (TWThO formation) (8): BG, SLSTP, SLF, CK, SK, SK, BG, BG

1155 Edinburgh-St Pancras (formation to Leeds) (8): BSK, FK, TSO, RF, SO, CK, CK, BSK

1029 Poole-Newcastle (until 10/6 and from 4/9) (8): BSK, CK, TSO, RMB, TSO, BSK, CK, SK

0835 Manchester Central-St Pancras (7 or 8): BG(MX), BSK, TSO, FK, RMB, FK, TSK, BSK

1220 St Pancras-Manchester Central (7): BSK, TSO, CK, RMB, CK, TSO, BSK

1725 Manchester Piccadilly-Cardiff (7): BSK, SK, TSO, RMB, CK, BSK, BG

1115 Cardiff-Sheffield (formation to Derby) (7): BSK, TSO, CK, CK, TSO, BSK, RMB

1150 Blackpool South-Euston (as far as Preston) (7): BFK, FK, SO, RKB, TSO, TSO, BSK

1420 Cardiff-York (6): BSK, TSO, RMB, CK, SK, BSK

1828 Aberystwyth-York (formation between Shrewsbury and Stockport) (6): POS, POS, BG, CK, BSK, BG

1528 Birmingham-Yarmouth (until 10/6 and from 4/9) (6): TSO, TSO, BG, CK, SK, SK

0300 Leeds-Derby (MX formation) (6): BZ (Stove), SK, BSK, CK, PMV, GUV

1745 Liverpool Exchange-Glasgow (formation to Preston) (5): BSK, CK, RU, TSO, BSK

1955 Hereford-Crewe (formation from Shrewsbury) (4):  BSK, CK, SK, BG

2000 Peterborough-Crewe (4): BG, POS, POS, BG

2000 Lincoln-Derby (4 or 7): BG, POS, CK, BSK – also BG, CCT, BG detached Nottingham

0300 Leeds-Derby (MO formation) (3): SK, BSK, CK

Circa 1969

WR side

BG, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, RB, FO, FK IIa, BFK IIa (WR – shortened Paddington-Bristol)

SK, CK, BSK, RU, TSO, FK, SK (7) (Paddington-Worcester/Hereford)

CCT, TSO, BCK (3) (from photo at Westbury)

Bogie parcels vans (to fit)

33/1+4TC

Grey Pullman (8)

LMR side

BSK, TSO, CK, RMB, CK, SK, SK, BG (8)

BSK, SK, CK, TSO, RU, CK, SK, BSK (8) (0820 Cardiff-Newcastle)

BSK, TSO, TSO, RB, RU, FO, FO, CK (8) (Master Cutler)

BSK, TSO, CK, RF, SO, CK, TSO, BSK (8) (0655 Nottingham-St Pancras)

BG, BSK, TSO, RMB, CK, TSO, BG (7) (1715 Cardiff-Manchester)

BFK, FK, SO, RKB, TSO, TSO, BSK (7) (1154 SX Blackpool South-Euston, Blackpool portion)

BSK, TSO, CK, CK, TSO, BSK (6) (Midland semi-fast)

GUV, CCT, BSK, CK, BG, BG (6) (0210 York-Manchester Victoria, GUV and PMV(CCT) reversed)

6 bogie parcels vans

6-car 101 set

2×Short parcels vans (4-car equivalent length, bogie van at terminus end)

BG, BSK, CK, SK (1955 Hereford-Crewe)

SK, BG, CK (1732 Leicester-Peterborough)

Circa 1971

WR side

BSK, SK, SK, RMB, CK, BSK (6) (0915 Cardiff-Portsmouth)

BG, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, RB, FO, FK IIa, BSO IIc (8) (shortened Paddington-Swansea)

BSK, CK, TSO (3) (0943(SO) Weymouth-Westbury)

Parcels vans to fit

33/1+4TC

Grey Pullman (6)

LMR side

SK, CK, CK, RMB, TSO, TSO, TSO, BG (8) (1335 Cardiff-Newcastle)

BFK, FK, TSO, SO, RU, TSO, TSO, BSK (8) (1305 St Pancras-Sheffield) – includes Mark II stock

BG, BSK, SK, CK, CK, SK, SK, BSK (8) (0625 Heysham-Manchester Victoria)

SO, RBK, BFK, FK, TSO, TSO, TSO, BSK (8) (0755 St Pancras-Sheffield – TSO substitutes for SO) – includes Mark II stock

CK, CK, SK, SK, BSK, BSK, BG (7) (0549 Bristol-Leeds)

BSK, TSO, CK, CK, TSO, BSK (6) (1130 St Pancras-Nottingham)

6 parcels vans

TSO, TSO, CK, BSK, BG (5) (2110 Birmingham-Sheffield)

6-car 101 set

Short parcels vans (4-car equivalent, bogie van at terminus end)

POS, BG, BSK, CK (4) (0255 Derby-Lincoln)

BSK, CK, SK (3) (0346 Crewe-Birmingham, off of 0110 from Holyhead, Mondays Only formation from 4/10/71)

Circa 1979-80

WR side

HST

BSO IIc, TSO IIb, FK IIb, RBR, SO, TSO IIb, BFK IIb, TSO IIa (8) (1050 Paddington-Worcester 1979, omits 1xTSO)

SK, SK, BG, CK, SK, SK (6) (1205 Cardiff-Portsmouth)

TSO, BSK, CK (3) (1508 Cardiff-Crewe TWTh from 2/10/79)

Parcels vans to fit

LMR side

BG, TSO, TSO, CK, RBK, CK, TSO, BSK (8) (0715 Nottingham-Glasgow)

TSO IIf, TSO IIf, TSO IIf, BSO IIf, RBR (ex-Diag 28), FO IIf, FO IIf, FO IIf (8) (0750 St Pancras-Sheffield)

TSO IIa, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, RMB, FK IIa, BG (8) (Liverpool-Newcastle, omits 1xTSO)

Sleeper set (8)

TSO II, TSO II, FK II, RB(S), TSO II, TSO II, BG (7) (1507 Brighton-Manchester – workings list RKB but photos also show RB; RKB is available as alternative)

BG, TSO, TSO, FK, TSO, TSO, BG (7) (1735(SX) Leeds-Bristol Tue-Fri formation on leaving Leeds)

TSO, RU(B), CK, SK, TSO, BG (6) (0754 Norwich-Birmingham) or BG, TSO, SK, CK, SK (6) (0805 Birmingham-Norwich)

BSK, CK, CK, CK, CK, BSK (6) (0056(SO) Carlisle-Inverness 26/5/79-1/9/79) or 6-car 101 set

Newspaper set (6)

BSK, SK, CK, SK, BSK (5) (1744 Carlisle-Glasgow via G&SW)

TSO, TSO, BSK, CK (4) (1157 Barnstaple-Exeter SO formation until 29/9/79)

BSK, BCK, BG, BG (4) (2000 Cardiff-Crewe)

2×Short parcels (4 car equivalent, bogie van at terminus end)

[robertcwp]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Great picture, Robert,

 

Where is it taken, please? Tring?

 

I presume CITY OF COVENTRY is still in green livery, judging by the early emblem? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I don't have any location information and the name on the box is out of focus so I can't make it out even on the full-size scan. I agree 46240 is green.

[Barry O]

33 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

This looks like it's a porthole BFK to me but even on the full size image I can't be 100% sure as I can't clearly make out the shape of the window opposite the lavatory, although the door and window layout is correct. There is also an FO second carriage in the train, which shows this is from early in the life of the service:

 

46240_up-Caledonian by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

There is a Derek Cross colour photo of the train with a porthole BFK but that looks more like 1958 or 1959 as the train includes an FK whereas it had 2xFO in 1957.

 

A Hornby catalogue a few years back somewhat strangely included a BR official photo of the Caledonian stock which I think included a porthole BFK, but I can't currently lay my hands on it.

 

I can't guarantee it was a porthole in 1957 and could have been an older one then.  The summer 1957 carriage working show it as BSK(24), 3 SO(48), RK, 2 FO(42), BFK(30), all BR standard except the RK and BFK.  Best thing to do is find photos of the train that are clearly from 1957.

 

Edit: to add to the above, it can only be a porthole in the photo as the pre-war BFKs were shorter and only had four bodylights on the corridor side and no middle door. Also, the carriage workings essentially specify a porthole BFK as they were the only ones with 30 seats.

 

Dave Peel's book on Locomotive Headboards has a good photo from June 1958 of the rear of the train with a porthole BFK, complete with Caledonian gangway endboard.

 

I are you sure it is a porthole? Just doesn't seem correct.

Baz

[robertcwp]

2 minutes ago, Barry O said:

I are you sure it is a porthole? Just doesn't seem correct.

Baz

It matches the Bachmann model and the diagram in the Jenkinson/Essery book (the photo in that book is of the other side).

[LNER4479]

30 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

This looks like it's a porthole BFK to me but even on the full size image I can't be 100% sure as I can't clearly make out the shape of the window opposite the lavatory, although the door and window layout is correct. There is also an FO second carriage in the train, which shows this is from early in the life of the service:

 

46240_up-Caledonian by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

There is a Derek Cross colour photo of the train with a porthole BFK but that looks more like 1958 or 1959 as the train includes an FK whereas it had 2xFO in 1957.

 

A Hornby catalogue a few years back somewhat strangely included a BR official photo of the Caledonian stock which I think included a porthole BFK, but I can't currently lay my hands on it.

 

I can't guarantee it was a porthole in 1957 and could have been an older one then.  The summer 1957 carriage working show it as BSK(24), 3 SO(48), RK, 2 FO(42), BFK(30), all BR standard except the RK and BFK.  Best thing to do is find photos of the train that are clearly from 1957.

 

Edit: to add to the above, it can only be a porthole in the photo as the pre-war BFKs were shorter and only had four bodylights on the corridor side and no middle door. Also, the carriage workings essentially specify a porthole BFK as they were the only ones with 30 seats.

 

Dave Peel's book on Locomotive Headboards has a good photo from June 1958 of the rear of the train with a porthole BFK, complete with Caledonian gangway endboard.

 

Thanks for taking the time to compile that Robert.

 

I agree that your picture is probably 1957 as the loco still has the early emblem.

 

I know the 'official' picture of the train that you are referring to (credited to 'BR LM Region') - 46244 in charge. Was that not the day they 'gave it the road' and it arrived in Euston 37 minutes early?(!) (which would explain the BR official photographer being on hand!) I've just been looking at that photo. Unfortunately, it's very 'head on' so not possible to make out the window concerned.

 

I was going to ask about the configuration of the rest of the vehicle (being lazy without going trawling through drawings!) but you obviously thought of that already.

 

So - looks like I've been labouring under a misapprehension all along. Good result on this occasion. Thanks, once again.

[robertcwp]

1 minute ago, LNER4479 said:

Thanks for taking the time to compile that Robert.

 

I agree that your picture is probably 1957 as the loco still has the early emblem.

 

I know the 'official' picture of the train that you are referring to (credited to 'BR LM Region') - 46244 in charge. Was that not the day they 'gave it the road' and it arrived in Euston 37 minutes early?(!) (which would explain the BR official photographer being on hand!) I've just been looking at that photo. Unfortunately, it's very 'head on' so not possible to make out the window concerned.

 

I was going to ask about the configuration of the rest of the vehicle (being lazy without going trawling through drawings!) but you obviously thought of that already.

 

So - looks like I've been labouring under a misapprehension all along. Good result on this occasion. Thanks, once again.

I'm thinking of a different photo which shows only carriages, the BFK and a couple of FOs if I recall correctly.

[drmditch]

Re: Workbench Pictures

(This thread moves so fast its difficult to stay topical!)

 

 

My workbench is nicely positioned at the south end of the Railway Room.

 

 

A closer view, with an A8 in shops (again, and I still haven't worked out how to fit brakes).

The workbench uses a surface top of re-cycled shop counter fastened on top of an elderly workmate.

Rather than constantly replace it, I use a 'project block' of off-cut MDF, of which I have a quantity surviving from all the work on the house/baseboards etc. When this gets too messy it gets turned over and then discarded and replaced.

 

I have good light, and I can see down the garden and look out for hedgehogs, acrobatic magpies, dancing crows, and other entertainments!

I can also, thanks to the design of the railway, sit and watch trains running around me, for which the swivel chairs are ideal. 

I do however need to improve the sound system, currently depending on an old DB radio.

 

Radio 3 is essential for good modelling!

 

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by drmditch

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Jamiel said:

the members of Leeds MRS for your inspiration.

You won't go wrong there. Baz and I joined in 1976 and never looked back.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, drmditch said:

Radio 3 is essential for good modelling!

ABC Classic down here - same difference (unless the cricket is on, like today, so it's ABC Sport).

[LNER4479]

3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

On the subject of train formations, here are my rough notes on formations I run on my layout (not all at once!). The layout moves through time periods over the course of a couple of years or so. It is currently at 1969. It is not based on any prototype and is more or less a run what I like layout but I try to aim for a mix of WR and LMR trains and to use real formations where possible. 

 

Circa 1958-60

WR side

Mark I chocolate & cream set: Torbay Express, Cambrian Coast Express or Royal Duchy (Line 9)
1958-9 Torbay Express: BSK, SK, SK, SO, RU, FK, CK, BSK (can omit one SK, dated)
1958-9 Royal Duchy: BSK, SK, SO, RU, FK, BSK, CK, BSK
1958-9 CCE: BSK, SK, FK, RU, FK, SK, BSK

Devonian set: BSK(Y), SK, SK, SO(64), RF, CK, CK, SK, BSK (Line 4)

Parcels and secondary passenger on Line 6

Relief or ECS 8-car on Line 8, or two short trains

Freight Lines 3, 5, 7 (middle) and 10. Unit Line 7. Push-pull Line 7 (for terminus).

LMR side

SR through set (8) – either Maunsell 8-set or Maunsell 6-set plus dining

GC set (8):

·         Marylebone-Manchester Thompson/Gresley: BSK, SK, SK, SO, RF, FK, CK, BSK

·         Saturday Cutler: BSK*, TSO*, SK*, SK*, RSP, RF, FO, BCK*

·         Short South Yorkshireman: BCK*, CK*, SK*, BSK*, RSP, RF, CK*, BSK*

8.52 am Bradford-St Pancras (8): BSK, FK, CK, CK, RF(Y) (RC(Y) substitutes), SO(64), SK, BSK

8.40 am Euston-Wolverhampton (shortened, approximate) (8): BSK(Y), CK, SO(64), SO(64), RF(Y) (RC(Y) substitutes) FO(Y), FK(p/h FK can substitute), BFK(Y)

Ex-Cutler (SX): BSK, SK, TSO, TSO, RF(g), FO(t), BCK

8.50 pm (SO) Bradford-St Pancras (7): BG, BG, BG, BSK, CK, SK, SK (Class A Stock). Formation from Leicester

6.57 am Cleethorpes-Birmingham (5 or 6): BSK, SK, CK, SK, BSK, SK(MSO) Class A Stock

6.10 am Derby-Bristol (formation MSX) (6): BSK, CK, BSK, 3 SK (LMS Stock)

10.05 am Leicester-St Pancras (7): SK(SX), S(SO), BSK, CK, BSK, BSK, CK, BSK

Excursion set (7)

Parcels (6)

2×Parcels (4), non-gangwayed (4), gangwayed (4)

Long DMU or BP (6)

Circa 1961-3

WR side

1.15 pm Paddington-Weston-super-Mare (Summer 1961, SX) (8): BCK, SK, SK, SO, RU, FK, FK, BCK
10.45 am Paddington-WSM (Winter 1961-2 SX) (8): BSK, SK, CK, SO, RB, FK, SK, BSK; (Winter 1962-3 SX) (8): BSK, SK, SK, CK, SO, RU (or RB?), FK, SK – RB in Summer 1963.

10.45 am Paddington-WSM (Winter 1963-4 SX) (8): BSK, SK, SK, SO, RB, FK, CK, BSK

3.15 pm Paddington-Hereford (1961-2) (8): BSK, SK, SK, FK, RB, SO, CK, BSK

Pembroke Coast Express 1961-2 (9): BSK, SK, FK, SK, RU, FO, FK, CK, BSK

Cathedrals Express 1961-2 (north of Oxford) (9): BSK, SK, SK, FK, BCK, SK, FK, RB, BSO

Cheltenham Spa Express 1961-2 (FX) (8): BSK, SK, SK, SO, RU, FK, FK, BCK

10.38 am Bradford-Paignton (Devonian) 1962-3 (9): BSK, SK, SK, SO, RB, CK, CK, SK, BSK

9.45 am Paddington-Weston-super-Mare (1963-4) (SX) (8): BSK, SK, SK, SK, RMB, FK, CK, BSK

7.15 pm Swindon-Sheffield Victoria (MWFO) (formation between Banbury and Leicester Central) (WR Stock) (5): BCK, BSK, BG, BG, PMV

6.46 am Gloucester Eastgate-Sheffield Midland (WR stock) (6): BSK, SK, CK, CK, SK, BSK.

LMR side

10.20 am Edinburgh-St Pancras The Waverley (formation north of Nottingham) (8): BSK, CK, CK, FK, RF, SO(64), SO(64), BSK

7.32 am Bradford-St Pancras (SX formation) (8): BSK, SO(64), SK, CK, CK, BSK, RB, CK

4.55 pm Penzance-Manchester (between Shrewsbury and Crewe) (8): BG, SK, CK, BSK, CK, SLCT, BG, BG(SX, not Mk1)

Bournemouth-York (8) SR green set

3.15 pm Cardiff-Leeds (7): BSK, SK, CK, RB, CK, SK, BSK (by 1963-4 Winter, was 3.20 pm, SKs replaced by TSOs)

10.15 pm Edinburgh-St Pancras (formation from Nottingham) (8 or 7): BG, SK, SK, SK(MFSO), CK, SLF, SLSTP, BG

12. 5 am Manchester Central-St Pancras (MX) (formation Derby-Leicester (7): BG, BG, BSK, SK, CK, BG, BG

6.35 am Birmingham-Bradford (6): BSK, SK, CK, CK, SK, BSK

6.25 pm Swansea Victoria-York (formation ex-Shrewsbury, SX) (6): POS, POS, BCK, BSK, SK, BG(not Mk1)

8.05 am (ThSX) Derby-Kettering (5): BSK, CK, BSK, CK, SK (LMS stock)

6.45 am Leicester Central-Sheffield Victoria (5): BSK, SK, CK, SK, BSK (LMS stock)

Circa 1965-6

WR side

1000 Paddington-Swansea (FX formation) (9): BG, SK, SK, SK, RB, FO, FK, FK, BSK

1515 Paddington-Hereford (8): BSK, SK, CK, SO(64), RU, FK, SK, BSK

1840 York-Swindon (Saturday formation): BG, BSK, CK, BSK, BG, PMV, PMV

Local formations: SK, SK, BCK (Mark 1); BSK, CK, SK, BSK (pre-nat)

LMR side

Waverley (8) 0905 St Pancras-Edinburgh (13 June to 1 October 1966); other dates is 0905 St Pancras-Leeds: BG, BSK, CK, SO(64), RF, SO(48), CK, BSK

Bournemouth-York (8) SR green set

1150 St Pancras-Bradford (8): SO(64), RU, CK, BSK, SO(64), FK, SO(64), BSK

West Coast set (shortened) (8) (1005 Euston-Glasgow ‘Royal Scot’ from 3 January 1966, MO formation shortened by 2): BSK, SK, SK, SO(64), RKB, FO, FK, BFK

1420 Cardiff-York (7): BSK, CK, SO(64), RMB, CK, SK, BSK

1320 St Pancras-Leicester (6): BSK, SO(64), CK, CK, SO(64), BSK

0010 (MO) Bristol-Manchester Piccadilly (2010 Sun ex-Plymouth) (7): BG, SK, CK, BSK, CK, SLCT, BG (add SLSTP between SLCT and BG until 20/9/65)

1911 Carlisle-Warrington (Class A stock) (SX formation) (6):  SK, SK, BSK, CK, BSK, GUV

GC semi-fast: BSK, CK, SK, BSK.

Also ex-LMS stock: BSK, SK, CK, SK, BSK and BSK, CK, BSK

Circa 1967-8

WR side

0800 Paddington-Swansea (FSX) (9): BG, TSO II, TSO II, TSO II, RB, FO, FK, FK, BSK

Paddington-Birmingham (8): BSK, FK, FK, RFO, RB, SK, BSK, SK

1915 Paddington-Cheltenham (8): BSK, SK, CK, RMB, CK, SK, BSK, BG

1315 Paddington-Hereford (7): SK, CK, BSK, FK, RU, TSO, SK

Torbay portion: FK, SK, BSK

33/1+4TC

Grey Pullman (8)

LMR side

1150 St Pancras-Bradford (8): SO(64), RU, CK, BSK, SO(64), FK, SO(64), BSK

1305 St Pancras-Sheffield (8): BSK, TSO, CK, RF, FO, CK, TSO, BSK (replace RF with RB for 1650 St Pancras-Nottingham)

1230 Manchester Central-St Pancras from Derby Thx formation (8): RF, FO, BSK, TSO, CK, CK, TSO, BSK

0110 Bristol-Sheffield (from Derby) (8): BG, BG, BG, BG, SK, CK, BSK, GUV

2156 Edinburgh-St Pancras (TWThO formation) (8): BG, SLSTP, SLF, CK, SK, SK, BG, BG

1155 Edinburgh-St Pancras (formation to Leeds) (8): BSK, FK, TSO, RF, SO, CK, CK, BSK

1029 Poole-Newcastle (until 10/6 and from 4/9) (8): BSK, CK, TSO, RMB, TSO, BSK, CK, SK

0835 Manchester Central-St Pancras (7 or 8): BG(MX), BSK, TSO, FK, RMB, FK, TSK, BSK

1220 St Pancras-Manchester Central (7): BSK, TSO, CK, RMB, CK, TSO, BSK

1725 Manchester Piccadilly-Cardiff (7): BSK, SK, TSO, RMB, CK, BSK, BG

1115 Cardiff-Sheffield (formation to Derby) (7): BSK, TSO, CK, CK, TSO, BSK, RMB

1150 Blackpool South-Euston (as far as Preston) (7): BFK, FK, SO, RKB, TSO, TSO, BSK

1420 Cardiff-York (6): BSK, TSO, RMB, CK, SK, BSK

1828 Aberystwyth-York (formation between Shrewsbury and Stockport) (6): POS, POS, BG, CK, BSK, BG

1528 Birmingham-Yarmouth (until 10/6 and from 4/9) (6): TSO, TSO, BG, CK, SK, SK

0300 Leeds-Derby (MX formation) (6): BZ (Stove), SK, BSK, CK, PMV, GUV

1745 Liverpool Exchange-Glasgow (formation to Preston) (5): BSK, CK, RU, TSO, BSK

1955 Hereford-Crewe (formation from Shrewsbury) (4):  BSK, CK, SK, BG

2000 Peterborough-Crewe (4): BG, POS, POS, BG

2000 Lincoln-Derby (4 or 7): BG, POS, CK, BSK – also BG, CCT, BG detached Nottingham

0300 Leeds-Derby (MO formation) (3): SK, BSK, CK

Circa 1969

WR side

BG, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, RB, FO, FK IIa, BFK IIa (WR – shortened Paddington-Bristol)

SK, CK, BSK, RU, TSO, FK, SK (7) (Paddington-Worcester/Hereford)

CCT, TSO, BCK (3) (from photo at Westbury)

Bogie parcels vans (to fit)

33/1+4TC

Grey Pullman (8)

LMR side

BSK, TSO, CK, RMB, CK, SK, SK, BG (8)

BSK, SK, CK, TSO, RU, CK, SK, BSK (8) (0820 Cardiff-Newcastle)

BSK, TSO, TSO, RB, RU, FO, FO, CK (8) (Master Cutler)

BSK, TSO, CK, RF, SO, CK, TSO, BSK (8) (0655 Nottingham-St Pancras)

BG, BSK, TSO, RMB, CK, TSO, BG (7) (1715 Cardiff-Manchester)

BFK, FK, SO, RKB, TSO, TSO, BSK (7) (1154 SX Blackpool South-Euston, Blackpool portion)

BSK, TSO, CK, CK, TSO, BSK (6) (Midland semi-fast)

GUV, CCT, BSK, CK, BG, BG (6) (0210 York-Manchester Victoria, GUV and PMV(CCT) reversed)

6 bogie parcels vans

6-car 101 set

2×Short parcels vans (4-car equivalent length, bogie van at terminus end)

BG, BSK, CK, SK (1955 Hereford-Crewe)

SK, BG, CK (1732 Leicester-Peterborough)

Circa 1971

WR side

BSK, SK, SK, RMB, CK, BSK (6) (0915 Cardiff-Portsmouth)

BG, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, RB, FO, FK IIa, BSO IIc (8) (shortened Paddington-Swansea)

BSK, CK, TSO (3) (0943(SO) Weymouth-Westbury)

Parcels vans to fit

33/1+4TC

Grey Pullman (6)

LMR side

SK, CK, CK, RMB, TSO, TSO, TSO, BG (8) (1335 Cardiff-Newcastle)

BFK, FK, TSO, SO, RU, TSO, TSO, BSK (8) (1305 St Pancras-Sheffield) – includes Mark II stock

BG, BSK, SK, CK, CK, SK, SK, BSK (8) (0625 Heysham-Manchester Victoria)

SO, RBK, BFK, FK, TSO, TSO, TSO, BSK (8) (0755 St Pancras-Sheffield – TSO substitutes for SO) – includes Mark II stock

CK, CK, SK, SK, BSK, BSK, BG (7) (0549 Bristol-Leeds)

BSK, TSO, CK, CK, TSO, BSK (6) (1130 St Pancras-Nottingham)

6 parcels vans

TSO, TSO, CK, BSK, BG (5) (2110 Birmingham-Sheffield)

6-car 101 set

Short parcels vans (4-car equivalent, bogie van at terminus end)

POS, BG, BSK, CK (4) (0255 Derby-Lincoln)

BSK, CK, SK (3) (0346 Crewe-Birmingham, off of 0110 from Holyhead, Mondays Only formation from 4/10/71)

Circa 1979-80

WR side

HST

BSO IIc, TSO IIb, FK IIb, RBR, SO, TSO IIb, BFK IIb, TSO IIa (8) (1050 Paddington-Worcester 1979, omits 1xTSO)

SK, SK, BG, CK, SK, SK (6) (1205 Cardiff-Portsmouth)

TSO, BSK, CK (3) (1508 Cardiff-Crewe TWTh from 2/10/79)

Parcels vans to fit

LMR side

BG, TSO, TSO, CK, RBK, CK, TSO, BSK (8) (0715 Nottingham-Glasgow)

TSO IIf, TSO IIf, TSO IIf, BSO IIf, RBR (ex-Diag 28), FO IIf, FO IIf, FO IIf (8) (0750 St Pancras-Sheffield)

TSO IIa, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, TSO IIa, RMB, FK IIa, BG (8) (Liverpool-Newcastle, omits 1xTSO)

Sleeper set (8)

TSO II, TSO II, FK II, RB(S), TSO II, TSO II, BG (7) (1507 Brighton-Manchester – workings list RKB but photos also show RB; RKB is available as alternative)

BG, TSO, TSO, FK, TSO, TSO, BG (7) (1735(SX) Leeds-Bristol Tue-Fri formation on leaving Leeds)

TSO, RU(B), CK, SK, TSO, BG (6) (0754 Norwich-Birmingham) or BG, TSO, SK, CK, SK (6) (0805 Birmingham-Norwich)

BSK, CK, CK, CK, CK, BSK (6) (0056(SO) Carlisle-Inverness 26/5/79-1/9/79) or 6-car 101 set

Newspaper set (6)

BSK, SK, CK, SK, BSK (5) (1744 Carlisle-Glasgow via G&SW)

TSO, TSO, BSK, CK (4) (1157 Barnstaple-Exeter SO formation until 29/9/79)

BSK, BCK, BG, BG (4) (2000 Cardiff-Crewe)

2×Short parcels (4 car equivalent, bogie van at terminus end)

That's a lorra lorra stock!

 

I think you've already hinted at it but I assume a certain amount of using individual vehicles more than once in different formations? Either than or some serious racking above or below the layout?

[Headstock]

3 hours ago, Willie Whizz said:

Sounds interesting - could you point us at where that might be found, please?

 

Unfortunately Clem doesn't have a thread. His work is scattered throughout this one. He's been very quite for a while, I hope everything is OK.

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, robertcwp said:

I don't have any location information and the name on the box is out of focus so I can't make it out even on the full-size scan. I agree 46240 is green.

Thanks Robert,

 

It was the track configuration (fast lines to the west, even though they're still bullhead; the slows seem to be FB) and the start of the chalk cutting in the background which suggested Tring. If so, the train is about to pass through the station. 

 

Any local observers know?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Tony Wright
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