Wright writes.....

[Headstock]

9 hours ago, MarkC said:

Possibly the summer Blackpool - South Shields train? That was routed across Stainmore. There was also a weekly Durham? to Ulverston service for injured Durham coalfield miners - there was a convalescence home in Ulverston, IIRC.

 

Mark

 

Good morning Mark,

 

brilliant job, thanks.  I think you are right. The Ulverston train was a lovely looking formation of old bangers with a 'Mickey mouse' at its head. I'm sure you are right about the Blackpool service as well. The great thing about modelling real locations, is that it is a gift that keeps on giving, even twenty years later.

 

I also remember the 'little Aberdeens', so called by local railway men to distinguish them from Euston Carlisle expresses, known as the 'big Aberdeens'. The 'little Aberdeens' were the Carlisle Oxenholme stopping trains, These services were worked as a filling in turn by Newcastle Carlisle sets. Who would have thought these ordinary passenger trains were worked by Gresley gangway sets on the WCML. I wonder if Shap have room in their fiddleyard?

Edited January 11, 2021 by Headstock

[westerner]

Re my post the other evening comparing the Jan.1970 issue of RM to the Jan 2021 issue. A break down of the articles.

 

Jan 1970:

Of the 24 pages of articles there were 3 layouts (of which the layout of the month Harlyn Junc. was 8 pages including a full page photo) took 11 pages (45%)

5 pages of drawings

3 pages of building O gauge locos in plastic

3 pages on building base boards with above a combined percentage of 25%

a 6x4 typical CJF plan

 

Jan 2021:

Of the 66 pages of articles there were 7 layouts which took up 45 pages (68%)

5 pages on building a small O gauge layout

10 pages of how to build various structures of which 5 pages were on the Thames Clyde express With above  a combined percentage of 22&

2 pages Plan of the Month of the Month of Brynkir with a fair bit of Prototype information

and a couple of comment pages.

 

Personally as someone who has taken the mags, particularly RM, for over 50 years, I find there is not much difference Possibly more layouts, in the content or the ratio of types of articles (see previous post for percentages). The big difference is that the modern magazines have much more content and are obviously in colour and the type of photography has changed. The other change I've noticed is more O gauge layouts in the mags even in ones that very rarely had an O gauge layout in the past, probably reflecting the resurgence Of good relatively cheap RTR locos. To be fair I am one of those who switched and have had an article in one of those mags (BRM) that when started almost never had O gauge layouts or articles about O gauge.,

[Headstock]

12 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Good evening Tony,

 

No I didn’t add the extra doors to the twin FO. This was the first prototypical rake that I put together - chosen because it was relatively short and my layout at that stage couldn’t take more than 8 coaches. I didn’t know about the extra doors at that stage (6 or 7 years ago). 
 

I do have two BSOs though - both SPM as Hornby hadn’t produced theirs at that stage. The RF and RSO were Comet and SPM respectively.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Morning Greenie,

 

I added the extra doors. I have the only extra doors in the world, apparently.  Have you noticed the connection between the Talidonian and the Calesman?

Edited January 11, 2021 by Headstock

[MarkC]

7 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Mark,

 

brilliant job, thanks.  I think you are right. The Ulverston train was a lovely looking formation of old bangers with a 'Mickey mouse' at its head. I'm sure you are right about the Blackpool service as well. The great thing about modelling real locations, is that it is a gift that keeps on giving, even twenty years later.

 

I also remember the 'little Aberdeens', so called by local railway men to distinguish them from Euston Carlisle expresses, known as the 'big Aberdeens'. The 'little Aberdeens' were the Carlisle Oxenholme stopping trains, These services were worked as a filling in turn by Newcastle Carlisle sets. Who would have thought these ordinary passenger trains were worked by Gresley gangway sets on the WCML. I wonder if Shap have room in their fiddleyard?

No problem, Andrew. Glad I could help.

 

I believe that a trial was made with one of the Sentinel steam railcars on the miners' train - the crew ended up working it throughout. Wow! I don't think that it was repeated though, for some reason...

 

Mark

[westerner]

Re Stoke Summit. I first saw it at Ipswich many years ago and had made the journey primarily to see it. I think mainly because to had been in the mags and was a main line layout. I seem to remember being given a sheet of paper with the loco numbers on so we could train spot. I did watch it for a bit, but not being an eastern region van and not too much happening I moved on.

[LNER4479]

2 hours ago, grahame said:

Does everyone just go to exhibitions to see something happening on a layout? Sometime, at exhibitions, I want to see inspirational and great examples of railway modelling. I don't always want to see trains whizzing around. And if they are stationary it is often easier to see and inspect them.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Quite.  I could gladly stand and look at layouts like Copenhagen Fields, Wibdenshaw, LB, Pendon or your buildings @grahamefor hours, without any trains running at all.  

Comments like this are heartening to read. HOWEVER, could I postulate that neither of you - nor I suspect most on this thread (including myself) - necessarily represent the 50th percentile average exhibition visitor?

 

I was once surprised (initially) to hear a statistic from a preserved railway that had done an analysis of visitors. They reckoned that only 10% of visitors were 'serious' (whatever that means) railway enthusiasts. The other 90% were more the general public looking for a interesting / rewarding day out. They could just as easily have gone to Alton Towers or a safari park in that sense.

 

I wonder, therefore, whether there is a similar thing going on at exhibitions? And is that in turn driving the 'demand' for trains constantly running? I'm not talking about specialist shows (obviously) but the mainstream shows - large or small - that the general public might typically attend.

 

I suspect that that 10% figure is somewhat higher at a model railway exhibition, although - as in the preserved line case - there are degrees of 'seriousness'(!) Nevertheless, I pretty convinced that most of us here are over on the right hand side of the normal distribution curve and not truly representative of yer average exhibition demographic. And it's 'Mr average exhibition attender' who does not 'get' the intricacies of railway operation or necessarily appreciate building techniques. 

 

I also wonder whether that demographic has shifted over the years?

[Headstock]

12 minutes ago, MarkC said:

No problem, Andrew. Glad I could help.

 

I believe that a trial was made with one of the Sentinel steam railcars on the miners' train - the crew ended up working it throughout. Wow! I don't think that it was repeated though, for some reason...

 

Mark

 

Wow indeed!

 

The North Eastern yard on Tebay was its own little railway within a railway, with its own fiddle yard and trains. I t was great fun. Ron Hodge, was a great NE man, he could work it like clockwork and he taught me how to operate it too. We were the only two who could run through the whole 'sequence' of trains without tying the NE yard in nots. The same applied to Tebay shed, were the rest of the team were determined to block in your bankers to make life difficult but operation more interesting.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Headstock

[LNER4479]

25 minutes ago, Headstock said:

I also remember the 'little Aberdeens', so called by local railway men to distinguish them from Euston Carlisle expresses, known as the 'big Aberdeens'. The 'little Aberdeens' were the Carlisle Oxenholme stopping trains, These services were worked as a filling in turn by Newcastle Carlisle sets. Who would have thought these ordinary passenger trains were worked by Gresley gangway sets on the WCML. I wonder if Shap have room in their fiddleyard?

Like this, you mean?

 

Yes, we've 'clocked' this service and at Glasgow we were running this train for the first time. Very much 'work in progress', this has been based on a c.1952 Eric Bruton picture of the Up train. It looks for all the world as if some of the coaches were still in teak livery, so likely to be older teak stock, cascaded from top link mainline use. The rear two vehicles here are Tony's former PC Kits models, originally made available to the Grantham cause but put to good use here.

Edited January 11, 2021 by LNER4479

[john new]

Based on an informative comment recently about SR coaches, and how much there is to learn, perhaps the range goes from -

1. Oh look it is steam/look at the cho choos.
2. nice looking coaches, why are they green when those over there are red?
3. glad to see they are running typical SR 3 coach sets with an end number.
4. Would they be MK1s by (insert date?) not those old Maunsells/Bullieds?
5. Pity the centre coach in that 3 car set is the wrong way round.
6.  

I would have scored circa 3 to 3.5. I know which coach is which for 4 but not scrapping dates or detail formations.

Edited January 11, 2021 by john new

[Headstock]

18 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Like this, you mean?

 

Yes, we've 'clocked' this service and at Glasgow we were running this train for the first time. Very much 'work in progress', this has been based on a c.1952 Eric Bruton picture of the Up train. It looks for all the world as if some of the coaches were still in teak livery, so likely to be older teak stock, cascaded from top link mainline use. The rear two vehicles here are Tony's former PC Kits, originally made available to the Grantham cause but put to good use here.

 

Good work Graham,

 

Tony is of course wrong about the greatest model railway ever, the more I think about it that would be Tebay. However, Shap is doing some pretty fine work. The former LNER were actually very slow to adopt crimson and cream compared to the LM, who were good little boy scouts. Doncaster turned out its last varnished teak carriage in 1952, a  lot of the compartment door carriages were relatively new, they continued to be built after the end door stock. So not really cascaded stock as such, These trains were working expresses between Newcastle and Carlisle that may have been top link on that route.

 

Bruton is super awesome, I went through his original photographic collection at the NRM, when going through the record cards of LM Pacific's, looking for the other streamliner. The book captions are all from his original handwritten notes.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Headstock
add info

[grahame]

22 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

 

I was once surprised (initially) to hear a statistic from a preserved railway that had done an analysis of visitors. They reckoned that only 10% of visitors were 'serious' (whatever that means) railway enthusiasts. The other 90% were more the general public looking for a interesting / rewarding day out. 

 

Yes, from my experience of exhibiting several of my layouts at many shows and operating club layouts at other exhibitions there are a great number of non-enthusiast, non-modellers who attend and do like to see trains running. However, not all are demanding of 'action' (although many do). I've certainly chatted to mothers, of children they've brought along, who are not interested and don't particularly want or enjoy seeing model trains running although some of those are interested in the crafting aspects.

 

Also I have noticed that the split between casual/non-hobby enthusiasts and the serious railway model afficionados varies depending of the type of show and how it is promoted. For example 'finescale' events and specialist type shows (like DEMU ShowCase) tend to have less family visitors and more enthusiasts whereas village hall model railway exhibitions and generalist model shows encourage and have more casual and family attendees.

 

 

[Steven B]

I've been taking my daughter to a couple of model railway shows each year since she was a couple of months old.

 

She generally likes to see things moving, but has a great eye for spotting little scenic details that often I miss. The one layout that we both wanted to keep returning to was Barrowmore Model Railway Group's Mostyn - modelling the summer of 1977 on the north Wales coast. I enjoyed the trains - well researched and modelled to near perfection whilst the traffic queue on the A55 kept her occupied. We both enjoyed counting wagons & coaches!

 

Steven B.

[robertcwp]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

And Retford's 'Talisman' (seen before). This has a carmine/cream BSO at the rear (temporarily provided by me, because no one knows what happened to the maroon one). 

 

The substitution of a CC car was not that uncommon. 

 

 

 

 

The Talisman on Retford now has a maroon BSO at the rear, reallocated from The West Riding set, where a Hornby one replaced it. This restored the look of the Talisman on Retford. Quite where the original BSO went is a mystery. I was pretty sure Roy had built the whole train as I think he said that to me, in which case it would not have been a case of stock owned by someone else having been reclaimed after Roy passed away.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, john new said:

A modelling question for the experts on here - I recently found one or two of my wagons were derailing through a set of points. Checking identifies it is the b-2-b on them that is out not a track fault,  they are too closely spaced on the axle. (Even the go half of my ancient but reliable C&L go/no gauge won't fit into the gap).

 

What techniques do people use to widen them out evenly? Putting them over not quite closed vice jaws and tapping the axle is obviously going to wreck the pin point so a non-starter - some form of gap expander? 

Fingers and thumb on the wheels, and twist John,

 

That's what I do. 

 

If the wheels are too stiff (which is very rare), place a brass top hat bearing over the axle and tap that....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, john new said:

A modelling question for the experts on here - I recently found one or two of my wagons were derailing through a set of points. Checking identifies it is the b-2-b on them that is out not a track fault,  they are too closely spaced on the axle. (Even the go half of my ancient but reliable C&L go/no gauge won't fit into the gap).

 

What techniques do people use to widen them out evenly? Putting them over not quite closed vice jaws and tapping the axle is obviously going to wreck the pin point so a non-starter - some form of gap expander? 

 

If you hold a short length of suitable diameter brass tube over the pin point while you tap it, that protects it.

 

Although with wagon wheels, I usually find a twisting motion on the wheels allows them to be eased outwards slightly, rather than a straight pull.

 

Edit to add  that mine pretty much duplicates Tony W's post but I won't delete it as the brass tube really works well.

Edited January 11, 2021 by t-b-g
To add content

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, westerner said:

Re Stoke Summit. I first saw it at Ipswich many years ago and had made the journey primarily to see it. I think mainly because to had been in the mags and was a main line layout. I seem to remember being given a sheet of paper with the loco numbers on so we could train spot. I did watch it for a bit, but not being an eastern region van and not too much happening I moved on.

Good afternoon Alan,

 

We did the Stoke Summit trainspotting lists for kids, but they were asked for by adults as well. They constantly needed adding to.

 

Likewise, after a couple of hours' running, I was busily changing locos, because folk were complaining what they'd just seen was not a 'cop'! 

 

I'm surprised you witnessed 'not too much happening'. That was a very rare occurrence. Anyway, it was usually impossible to see what was happening as a newcomer, such was the size of the crowd in front of it - even right up to the end of a show. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

10 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

If you hold a short length of suitable diameter brass tube over the pin point while you tap it, that protects it.

 

Although with wagon wheels, I usually find a twisting motion on the wheels allows them to be eased outwards slightly, rather than a straight pull.

 

Edit to add  that mine pretty much duplicates Tony W's post but I won't delete it as the brass tube really works well.

The brass tube is a better idea, Tony...................

[t-b-g]

11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The brass tube is a better idea, Tony...................

 

Nicked from somebody else so I claim no credit other than spreading the idea to a wider audience.

 

I just can't remember who showed me it many years ago.

[pete55]

4 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Nicked from somebody else so I claim no credit other than spreading the idea to a wider audience.

 

I just can't remember who showed me it many years ago.

 

Probably Roy, he showed me that trick!

[LNER4479]

Another technique is to set the wheelset up in a the jaws of a vice, with a piece of tube over each end of the axle (ie so that the full wheelset goes from jaw to jaw). Then you have much better control over the movement of the wheels on the axle.

(NOTE - only works when you're reducing the B2B! Also, you have no control over which wheel actually moves on the axle!)

[t-b-g]

15 minutes ago, pete55 said:

 

Probably Roy, he showed me that trick!

 

I thought it was either Ken Hill or Mick Whitchurch who showed me back in the 1980s, in which case it was before I got involved at Roy's place and it might even be that I showed it to him.

 

I can't be sure. I have enough trouble remembering important stuff.

[Tony Wright]

Another example of altruism...............

 

Friend Ron Smallshire has donated two further locomotives to be sold on behalf of CRUK. 

 

 

The first is a DJH 'Hall', built/painted/weathered in OO by Tony Geary, and ex-Charwelton. 

 

I've thoroughly examined it, tweaked what was necessary and it's a lovely runner. It features Markits wheels all round, a Comet gearbox, Mashima motor, tender pick-ups and even a firebox glow.

 

I don't know what the current price is for all the parts for this, but it's not insubstantial (anyone like to tell us?). 

 

If anyone would like to buy it, please PM me, making an offer (nothing daft, please). It's an opportunity to acquire a beautifully-natural locomotive made by a well-known, and much-respected builder. 

 

 

The second is a Hornby/NRM 'Special Edition' 'Castle'.

 

This is unused, runs beautifully, but, for some reason, it doesn't have a drawbar or retaining screws for it (Peter's Spares?). 

 

Again, anyone interested, please PM me.

 

Thanks for your generosity, Ron. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good work Graham,

 

Tony is of course wrong about the greatest model railway ever, the more I think about it that would be Tebay. However, Shap is doing some pretty fine work. The former LNER were actually very slow to adopt crimson and cream compared to the LM, who were good little boy scouts. Doncaster turned out its last varnished teak carriage in 1952, a  lot of the compartment door carriages were relatively new, they continued to be built after the end door stock. So not really cascaded stock as such, These trains were working expresses between Newcastle and Carlisle that may have been top link on that route.

 

Bruton is super awesome, I went through his original photographic collection at the NRM, when going through the record cards of LM Pacific's, looking for the other streamliner. The book captions are all from his original handwritten notes.

Tongue in cheek, Andrew,

 

But how can Tebay compete with Retford as to 'the greatest model railway ever'?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[john new]

4 hours ago, john new said:

A modelling question for the experts on here - I recently found one or two of my wagons were derailing through a set of points. Checking identifies it is the b-2-b on them that is out not a track fault,  they are too closely spaced on the axle. (Even the go half of my ancient but reliable C&L go/no gauge won't fit into the gap).

 

What techniques do people use to widen them out evenly? Putting them over not quite closed vice jaws and tapping the axle is obviously going to wreck the pin point so a non-starter - some form of gap expander? 

Back in from the weekly Sainsbury’s run.  Thanks for the responses one and all.
 

Since posting earlier I have just realised that in all the years I have had to tweak back to backs this is the first set that I remember being set too narrow to gauge (wheels to be moved out) rather than being too wide to gauge and needing a gentle squeeze in. Pot luck I guess, either that or, being older (and hopefully wiser), I now think the job a bit more carefully through before action. I suspect in the past I may have just tapped the axle ends gently with a small panel pin hammer and hoped for the best!  

A logical bulk production manufacturing process would be pressing the wheels inwards on to the axles to make a wheel set, perhaps with a central stop block in the tool: not quite far enough on from loss of pressure is therefore potentially more likely as a b-2-b fault. 
 

Edited January 11, 2021 by john new
Typo correction/formatting

[Leander]

On 10/01/2021 at 12:53, mark54 said:

I think you are referring to one on the Science and Society site - 2 Mk1 FO's and an LMS BFK furthest away. It has also appeared in Steam World magazine a few years ago. I would have said this and the one in your photo must be a porthole as the pre-war BFK didn't have an intermediate corridor door.

The postwar LMS corridor stock, which immediately pre-dated the Portholes, introduced the intermediate door style.