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1 minute ago, robmcg said:

 

I have the same problem with crews fitted to even open-cab locos.  Static while the train moves. I'd rather imagine the crew thankyou. Each to their own indeed.

Ha - yes, loco crews, that's a thorny one! Likewise coach passengers and brake van guards...

They look wrong to me too for exactly the same reason and I never used to use them, then one day I read a comment about locos looking ridiculous running round without anyone driving them and everything suddenly looked different to me! I couldn't believe it hadn't bothered me before and since then I've fitted crews without fail, and passengers and guards too. They still look unnaturally frozen to me, but the overall effect is less odd than completely empty rolling stock.

Plus, if I half-close my eyes and look away at the right moment as the train passes, I can imagine the fireman throwing a shovelful of coal onto the fire and the driver moving the regulator up a bit... though they've stopped moving again next time I catch sight of them of course... Like the toys in the nursery that only move when we're asleep;).

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Interesting Tony, that you said that the very large locos were 'worth a lot of money' whilst none of them were weathered; is that, I wonder, because their owners feel that weathering them would reduce their value?

 

If we feel that weathered locos look more realistic I wonder why they would not be worth more than pristine ones?

 

My personal view is that my models are 'consumables' not investments and so whilst I have yet to get through my entire loco, carriage and wagon fleets, it is certainly my intention to weather everything in time - including the Larry Goddard painted coaches (do I detect flinching around the room?).:wacko:


Tony

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1 hour ago, robmcg said:

 

I have the same problem with crews fitted to even open-cab locos.  Static while the train moves. I'd rather imagine the crew thankyou. Each to their own indeed.

 

Last night I was enjoying reading 'Eric Treacy's LMS' by David Jenkinson and Patrick Whitehouse and remarked to myself that while the Lizzes and Duchesses 1938-52 were often clean the Jubilees and Black 5s hardly ever were. Also of note was the chapter on Liverpool Lime Street to Edge Hill, with stunning photos in the sun-and-shadow 'valley' and beyond on the 1-in-70-ish grade, sometime 13 or 14 behind an unassisted Jubilee...  quite a bit of smoke in these! Imagine a Jubilee throuh Tebay rushing at Shap with 13-on.     these LNER types don't know they are born! :)  

 

I decided therefore it was time to photograph some weathered Bachmann Jubilees. With smoke.

 

Inspiring book, rather as I imagine to ER ones can be. Treacy did a fair few photos around Leeds-Bradford I think, but you probably know this better than me.

 

Jubilees certainly did rush Shap with thirteen on but were just as likely to whistle for a banker. It all depended what condition they were in after the climb of Grayrigg. We were told by ex drivers, climbing Shap itself wasn't that hard if your engine was steaming well, the real trick was running fast up Grayrigg, recovering quickly in the Lune gorge and opening up again in order to make a  fast climb to Shap sumit. Some would take it easy on Grayrigg and run fast up Shap in order to keep time, while others would run fast up Grayrigg and take it easier on Shap or call for a banker. It was all about mortgaging the boiler over the whole climb. You could easily wind and engine on Shap by going to hard on Grayrigg, or by poor recovery of boiler pressure through the Lune gorge. The ultimate test of engine and crew, is still the fastest time taken over both Grayrigg and Shap.

 

Say it quietly, A certain locomotive of a type that didn't know it was born, holds the record for the fastest climb recorded by steam over Grayrigg and Shap. A similar type, set the record for the fastest individual climb of Shap, with the heaviest permissible load.

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41 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Jubilees certainly did rush Shap with thirteen on but were just as likely to whistle for a banker. It all depended what condition they were in after the climb of Grayrigg. We were told by ex drivers, climbing Shap itself wasn't that hard if your engine was steaming well, the real trick was running fast up Grayrigg, recovering quickly in the Lune gorge and opening up again in order to make a  fast climb to Shap sumit. Some would take it easy on Grayrigg and run fast up Shap in order to keep time, while others would run fast up Grayrigg and take it easier on Shap or call for a banker. It was all about mortgaging the boiler over the whole climb. You could easily wind and engine on Shap by going to hard on Grayrigg, or by poor recovery of boiler pressure through the Lune gorge. The ultimate test of engine and crew, is still the fastest time taken over both Grayrigg and Shap.

 

Say it quietly, A certain locomotive of a type that didn't know it was born, holds the record for the fastest climb recorded by steam over Grayrigg and Shap. A similar type, set the record for the fastest individual climb of Shap, with the heaviest permissible load.

 

60163, 71000, 35028....    I'd love to know which, and the circumstances.  Probably a tail wind.

 

Cheers

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49 minutes ago, Headstock said:

Say it quietly, A certain locomotive of a type that didn't know it was born, holds the record for the fastest climb recorded by steam over Grayrigg and Shap. A similar type, set the record for the fastest individual climb of Shap, with the heaviest permissible load.

Think I might have been on board. The run I was on - in June 2010 - was a certain 'forrin' engine and it was a helluva run. 90 miles Preston-Carlisle run non-stop in 87 minutes with 13 coaches trailing behind.

 

Jubilees were certainly expected to take 13 unaided up Shap on the 1950s Liverpool / Manchester - Glasgow / Edinburgh workings. And they reputedly kept time better than the Clans when the latter were used on the same workings. Such workings were all LMS stock at the time so, other than the restaurant car, would have been a little lighter than the MkI equivalent.

 

But it was certainly asking a lot of the former 5XPs; a Royal Scot or rebuilt Patriot was a better match but they weren't regularly available for such workings until the late 1950s.

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43 minutes ago, robmcg said:

 

60163, 71000, 35028....    I'd love to know which, and the circumstances.  Probably a tail wind.

 

Cheers

 

There is another, as Yoda would say

 

However 60163 holds the record for the fastest run by steam with thirteen bogies over Shap.

 

Can DCC make a three cylinder jet engine sound like an A1?

 

 

Edited by Headstock
add queries.
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The best thing was the banking. When I was on northbound I sometimes would play a naughty trick on virgin Shed operators. I would not quite bring my train to a halt, an then I would slowly accelerate away from the the banking engine, that was desperately racing to catch me up on the big hill. Mostly I was good but it made the crowds laugh, especially if shed man got a little flustered.

Fun day banking on Tebay.jpg

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8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

There must be other layouts depicting other locations on the line

High Dyke!

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The comparative LNWR main line to Crewe has nowhere near as many, does it?

As well as those mentioned, I know of models, past or present, of Birmingham New Street, Rugeley Trent Valley and Stafford.

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11 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Ha - yes, loco crews, that's a thorny one! Likewise coach passengers and brake van guards...

They look wrong to me too for exactly the same reason and I never used to use them, then one day I read a comment about locos looking ridiculous running round without anyone driving them and everything suddenly looked different to me! I couldn't believe it hadn't bothered me before and since then I've fitted crews without fail, and passengers and guards too. They still look unnaturally frozen to me, but the overall effect is less odd than completely empty rolling stock.

Plus, if I half-close my eyes and look away at the right moment as the train passes, I can imagine the fireman throwing a shovelful of coal onto the fire and the driver moving the regulator up a bit... though they've stopped moving again next time I catch sight of them of course... Like the toys in the nursery that only move when we're asleep;).

Good morning Chas,

 

Though all my locos are crewed, most of my carriages are empty. 

 

I think a crew, especially in locos with more 'open', smaller cabs, is more visible than passengers in carriages. That said, more of my carriages should have figures in them, though carriages 'swallow' them at an alarming rate. 

 

In many (most?) prototype shots of, say, express trains on the move, it's very hard to detect any passengers through any windows (especially in the classic three quarter front view), yet often a crew member can be detected in the cab. 

 

I'll try and take some pictures later on LB to show what I mean.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

High Dyke!

As well as those mentioned, I know of models, past or present, of Birmingham New Street, Rugeley Trent Valley and Stafford.

Of course, John,

 

The ones I mentioned I'd taken pictures of. Unfortunately, I never took any shots of High Dyke.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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7 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

It may not qualify for Tony's thred, wrong region, wrong engine, smoke, edited unreality, but here is my Jubilee preparing to 'rush' Shap bank... 13-on, in Mk1 days, cannot be real....

 

Bachmann model unboxed by me, track assembled by me... 

 

Please be kind, Mr Wight, Sir. 

 

45562_BR_Jubilee_45562_passing_at_speed_4abc_r1820_crop3.jpg.cab8ff5949a9542fd6716221ab247d45.jpg

 

or if you prefer... another 3-cylinder exhaust beat.

 

60067_A3_Gresely_at_work_60067_2abcdefcrop1_r1820.jpg.03f88210fc008d043d8b738436273645.jpg

 

 

They're remarkably effective, Rob.

 

However (there's always one of those), can't you get rid of those nasty roof ribs on that Bachmann Mk.1?

 

The visible crew members tie-in with an earlier post. Were they added digitally? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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I have seen, either in the flesh or in photos, models of Euston, Camden Bank (three different layouts) plus Coventry.

 

I won't divulge further details as I don't like name dropping or posting anything about models that are not mine without asking permission from the owners/builders but one Camden Bank and Euston have threads on RMWeb and a second Camden Bank has featured in the MRJ.

Edited by t-b-g
Missed a word out!
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7 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

It may not qualify for Tony's thred, wrong region, wrong engine, smoke, edited unreality, but here is my Jubilee preparing to 'rush' Shap bank... 13-on, in Mk1 days, cannot be real....

 

Bachmann model unboxed by me, track assembled by me... 

 

Please be kind, Mr Wight, Sir. 

 

45562_BR_Jubilee_45562_passing_at_speed_4abc_r1820_crop3.jpg.cab8ff5949a9542fd6716221ab247d45.jpg

 

or if you prefer... another 3-cylinder exhaust beat.

 

60067_A3_Gresely_at_work_60067_2abcdefcrop1_r1820.jpg.03f88210fc008d043d8b738436273645.jpg

 

 

 

Rob, a question if I may.  How much of the weathering in these images is done digitally, and how much is modelled physically?  It looks as is these models have been rather more than just ‘unboxed’!

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13 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Blimey, brave to admit to that. It makes it sound like you'd prefer to build a similar layout rather than design one or base it on a real location. And confirms that many layouts are copy-cat me-toos and not something new, exciting or innovative.

 

 

To be fair, "spare bedroom" and "real location" are seldom a practical combination (in 4mm scale anyhow) unless the former is exceptionally large and the latter exceptionally small.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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16 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Ha - yes, loco crews, that's a thorny one! Likewise coach passengers and brake van guards...

They look wrong to me too for exactly the same reason and I never used to use them, then one day I read a comment about locos looking ridiculous running round without anyone driving them and everything suddenly looked different to me! I couldn't believe it hadn't bothered me before and since then I've fitted crews without fail, and passengers and guards too. They still look unnaturally frozen to me, but the overall effect is less odd than completely empty rolling stock.

Plus, if I half-close my eyes and look away at the right moment as the train passes, I can imagine the fireman throwing a shovelful of coal onto the fire and the driver moving the regulator up a bit... though they've stopped moving again next time I catch sight of them of course... Like the toys in the nursery that only move when we're asleep;).

I have to say that loco crews are incredibly well served by Modelu and you don’t have to put up with the frozen action  poses of yesterday. You can have a fireman leaning on a shovel - that classic English pose that still holds good today or a driver leaning out of the window or standing with his hand raised on a regulator. 
 

I think it’s O gauge where their omission stands out because the cab interiors are magnificent in their own right but looking like the Marie Celeste, or a run away train when there are such exquisitely crafted figures seems so wrong.

 

I model in N and always put a crew in when I finish a loco off. Spend ages painting a modelu crew and in full knowledge that you will only get a brief glimpse as it rolls by which is probably a good thing as they usually have to be amputated below the knees to fit. 
 

They do of course need a touch of weathering though. Steam engine footplates are working environments.

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The Modelu figures are superb but he has only a small selection for the pre-grouping period. A C Stadden does some very good cast Victorian, Edwardian and 1950's enginemen that have separate arms and heads and so can be "posed" to fit specific locations.

 

 

 

 

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There has been discussion regarding the lack of WCML layouts, this one is excellent, real location, full length trains (both long and short), correct formations, scratchbuilt stock, fast running , slow running and more. 

 

Sadly not 4mm or steam, but does that matter when it is so good.

 

Four scracthbuilt AM10s in the same photo. The tube stock and the 501s, lovely.

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13 hours ago, Headstock said:

The best thing was the banking. When I was on northbound I sometimes would play a naughty trick on virgin Shed operators. I would not quite bring my train to a halt, an then I would slowly accelerate away from the the banking engine, that was desperately racing to catch me up on the big hill. Mostly I was good but it made the crowds laugh, especially if shed man got a little flustered.

Fun day banking on Tebay.jpg

Happened in real life as well. One of the SDJR memoir books mentioned our accelerating the banking engine.

 

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