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Wright writes.....


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It was nice to see Jesse's model of the D&S GER van. Folk posting their work seems to have dropped off a bit, so here is "one of mine"

Having a prototypical location does restrict the choice of appropriate loco and rolling stock, even on the ECML. The River Tyne was a giant "Berlin Wall" as locos from the South rarely went North, and vice versa. If only I had the cash/space/time/ to model Newcastle Central! Even the couple of N5's which were imposed on Sunderland in 1957/8 , before being banished to Gilbert Barnett's territory ,would never had got to my location , only 5 miles north of Newcastle. Similarly, Class 110 DMU's got to Newcastle on very rare occasions from York, but no further. So the photo shows that I have suspended belief to get the SEF N5 here, and, thanks to Clive M, the 110 is now a legitimate NER 4-car 104. 

IMG_20210118_184242.jpg

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10 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

What have you done to scare all the passengers away in the big Brush photo at Wood Green?

 

Seriously there appears no one on the platforms. Which is how most passenger stations are most of the day. How many of us get to a station an hour before our train? Most of us leave as late as we can so unless there is a stopper due the platform is empty (bar the puffer nutter with the camera). Then if you look at how passengers don't tend to move far from the entrance or steps of a bridge they have had to cross , they kind of handle together until the train is almost stopping. OK you get the likes of my dad who would go for a stroll down the platform to see if he could see the train coming.  They do not wait in a evenly spaced line along the platform as we often see in model land.

 

Having said that all those who have had the misfortune of commuting to work will say that when they caught their train each morning the spread was fairly even. That is because the regulars would know were there would be space for them to stand on the train.

 

Far to many models of sleepy country stations look like the up platform of Ingatestone station between 6.30 am to 8.30 am but on both platforms.

Good morning Clive,

 

Me, scare anyone? 

 

Those who know the ECML train reporting numbers in 1967 (it's an Up service; it might even be a Pullman) will be able to inform us of the time of day I took the picture. It was on or very near to the 11th of October, 1967 (my 21st birthday) and a mate and I (whose 21st would be a week later) were 'celebrating' by having a day out visiting London's model shops of the time (we were on our way back from Southgate, and we stopped off at Wood Green). Judging by the light, I'd say it was mid-afternoon, but it was a long time ago. A time of day when there would be few commuters, hence the lack of figures. 

 

What interests me the most is the wonderful station itself; still 'stating' GNR/LNER to the full, even complete with gas lighting! The Deltics have ensured that the staining of the footbridge will continue; even be made more (a point of potential model observation with regard to this. By far the greatest deposits of soot/diesel muck are above the Down fast. Trains would be really accelerating at this point, and Up trains would be mainly coasting. I've shown this difference on Little Bytham's footbridge, where maximum staining is also above the Down fast - because locos would be piling it on on the climb to Stoke. Up trains, with a favourable 1-in-200 would be under easy steam). 

 

Though not visible in the picture, the wonderful semaphores were still present along this stretch of railway. They would last into the next decade.

 

Now, getting on for 54 years later, is there a model shop at Southgate to visit? Is there any model shop left in London? My friend and I must have visited a double figure number on that long ago day (our wallets were lighter to prove it). If they did, would they stop of at Wood Green (or Alexandra Palace as it's known today) and take pictures? Unlikely? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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10 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

The only people visible in the shot are the highly visible loco crew.

 

I agree 100%. Platforms need to be populated much more thoughtfully on many models.

 

Of course the number of people on a platform varies enormously depending on what activity is taking place. A commuter train could leave a platform very well filled but only for a few moments. At a small country station, you might never get more than a handful of people.

 

Whatever we do as modellers is only right for the scene that we choose to portray as it happens at that moment.

 

I usually opt for a couple of station staff and a small number of people, maybe 2 or 3, either waiting to catch a train or meeting somebody arriving on one. They usually wait by the building, perhaps seated, although I sometimes have a figure who has walked up the platform to see the loco.

 

I always think that is enough.

Good morning Tony,

 

Little Bytham has about six figures on the platforms, permanently fixed, whatever the time of day (including 'me'). 

 

If I were striving for 'historical accuracy' there would be none; not if any of the prototype photographs I've used are to be believed. Apart from one lone figure in the goods yard in one shot, there is none anywhere else.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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2 minutes ago, westerner said:

As we've been talking about Eric Treacy and his photos, may I put in a word for Ben Ashworth, with his wonderful rural shots often in the Forest of Dean placing the railway in its landscape.

I've not seen Ben Ashworth's work, Alan,

 

Though it's entirely subjective I know, my choice for the greatest (British) railway photographer would be W. J. (Bill) Verden Anderson. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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12 hours ago, Manxcat said:

Good Evening Tony,

 

I thought you might be interested to know that the video I made of Little Bytham in June 2019, and which I posted on my YouTube channel, has now had 13,672 views. Thank you for letting me publish it.

 

Archie

Good morning Archie,

 

Can you post your video again on here, please?

 

Some folk might not have seen it, and it must be hundreds of pages ago.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Tony,

 

Little Bytham has about six figures on the platforms, permanently fixed, whatever the time of day (including 'me'). 

 

If I were striving for 'historical accuracy' there would be none; not if any of the prototype photographs I've used are to be believed. Apart from one lone figure in the goods yard in one shot, there is none anywhere else.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I don't think that a station serving a place like Little Bytham would have stayed open as long as it did unless it had some passengers sometimes.

 

So I think you are OK with a few.

 

It is a shame that we can't make them appear when a stopper is due and vanish as it leaves or when the expresses are rattling through.

 

I have sometimes wondered why a place that size warranted a four platform station, unless it was just to give a "stopper" the option of using the fast or the slow line.

 

Even Retford only had 3!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, APOLLO said:

For steam railway photography the best books I have  are the four volumes "Never Again", along with several volumes by Colin Gifford & Colin Walker.

 

Over the pond was O Winston link territory.

 

 

I must agree with you about "Never Again", although the four volumes define quite a narrow and highly unusual period of time, nevertheless the narratives that accompany each image are also full of interest!

 

14 hours ago, Adam88 said:

 

I was fortunate enough to visit the O Winston Link museum in Roanoke, VA https://roanokehistory.org/historical-society-of-western-virginia/owl-main-page/

 

 

Whenever I hear "Roanoke" mentioned I recall a holiday that my late wife and I took around the Blue Ridge Mountains; one night we stayed at a hotel in Roanoke, whose railway history was unfamiliar to me, and from the hotel window my wife saw a sign across the tracks which said "Roanoke Shops".......

 

Always a keen shopper, she persuaded me to walk in that direction but to her disappointment  we could find no evidence of a shopping mall - just a lot of old industrial buildings; returning to the hotel, she interogated the receptionist as to the location of the 'shops'.......

 

As the light dawned on the receptionist that we were referring to the railway workshops, the amusement on her side, and embarassment on ours was intense!

 

Tony

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31 minutes ago, westerner said:

As we've been talking about Eric Treacy and his photos, may I put in a word for Ben Ashworth, with his wonderful rural shots often in the Forest of Dean placing the railway in its landscape.

 

The inspiration for my current endeavours in O.

 

5.jpg.14ff6f4dd70c3fa519f1c5c71ae0fcb3.jpg

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23 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Archie,

 

Can you post your video again on here, please?

 

Some folk might not have seen it, and it must be hundreds of pages ago.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Tony,

 

Your wish is my command!

 

 

 

Archie

 

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11 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony

 

What have you done to scare all the passengers away in the big Brush photo at Wood Green?

 

Seriously there appears no one on the platforms. Which is how most passenger stations are most of the day. How many of us get to a station an hour before our train? Most of us leave as late as we can so unless there is a stopper due the platform is empty (bar the puffer nutter with the camera). Then if you look at how passengers don't tend to move far from the entrance or steps of a bridge they have had to cross , they kind of handle together until the train is almost stopping. OK you get the likes of my dad who would go for a stroll down the platform to see if he could see the train coming.  They do not wait in a evenly spaced line along the platform as we often see in model land.

 

Having said that all those who have had the misfortune of commuting to work will say that when they caught their train each morning the spread was fairly even. That is because the regulars would know were there would be space for them to stand on the train.

 

Far to many models of sleepy country stations look like the up platform of Ingatestone station between 6.30 am to 8.30 am but on both platforms.

Tony obviously had a People Filter. A rather rare item. I got mine from a back street shop in Cambridge - which in the 60s & 70s, was a good place to buy camera equipment. Sadly it doesn't fit my present digital camera, so it is somewhere in the loft. I've never actually seen another one for sale anywhere, though my late friend from Cambridge seemed to have one as well (I never actually saw it though).

 

Stewart

Edited by stewartingram
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54 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I've not seen Ben Ashworth's work, Alan,

 

Though it's entirely subjective I know, my choice for the greatest (British) railway photographer would be W. J. (Bill) Verden Anderson. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Equally subjectively, I'd pick R C Riley.

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Tony,

 

Little Bytham has about six figures on the platforms, permanently fixed, whatever the time of day (including 'me'). 

 

If I were striving for 'historical accuracy' there would be none; not if any of the prototype photographs I've used are to be believed. Apart from one lone figure in the goods yard in one shot, there is none anywhere else.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony

 

Little Bytham is one of the few layouts that is populated realistically. You say in the photos there is nobody, there would have been a small number of staff. Apart from when a train was due most of their work would have been out of public gaze.

Edited by Clive Mortimore
who put the p next to the o?
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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Camden,

 

What an extraordinary piece of work.

 

I feel quite ashamed in a way with what I usually do with tender interiors. That is to solder a piece of flat brass, just below the top of the sides of my tenders, then, after painting, just fill it with (real) coal, even allowing some to spill over to the rear, around the dome and water filler. Thus, any detail (not that there is any) is buried.

 

Would anyone actually model a tender interior like the one you've shown? By that I mean, on an operating model railway like Little Bytham, most of the locos' tenders would be fairly full of coal (even the Up 'Lizzie's' tender used to have plenty left by Kings Cross). The only time a tender's interior would be so visible is just as its towed out of the paint shop for weighing or in a museum. Splendid work, nonetheless. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Why not run with an empty tender? We imagine so much of what isnt represented in our models (such as crews and passengers as per recent discussion on here)  - why not coal? Even on your magnificent mainline there isn't a hint of smoke or steam to be seen and the sound is imaginary as well. 

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2 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Why not run with an empty tender? We imagine so much of what isnt represented in our models (such as crews and passengers as per recent discussion on here)  - why not coal? Even on your magnificent mainline there isn't a hint of smoke or steam to be seen and the sound is imaginary as well. 

 

I suppose the ideal would be for locomotives to be modelled with the appropriate amount of coal in the tender for the working and the location. So, with Little Bytham being very nearly exactly a quarter of the way to Edinburgh, and supposing that engines working through pretty much exhausted their supply, on the Anglo-Scottish expresses, about ¾ full northbound and ¼ full southbound?

 

Assuming the tender tank gauge is modelled, what level should the indicator be at?

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Rowanj mentioned earlier that there haven't been many photos of work in progress on here of late.

 

As I, fairly unusually, have some LNER stuff on the go at present, I thought I'd add my two-pennorth.

 

LNER 6-plank merchandise wagon, based on the Cambrian kit, which normally makes up as 9' wb unfitted.

 

This one is being cross-kitted with underframe parts from a Parkside Lowfit to produce a 10' wb fitted example.

 

Coupling hooks are Dart/MJT, buffers Abs (as will be the brake pipes, later). 

 

John 

P1280262e.jpg

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Though it's entirely subjective I know, my choice for the greatest (British) railway photographer would be W. J. (Bill) Verden Anderson. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I think that's a fair shout Tony. I think he was probably the better technical photographer than Treacy (not by much!), subjects always beautifully composed and lit and pin sharp.

 

I think where Treacy stole a march was that he was simply active earlier; many of classic pictures are pre-war 1930s work and even some taken during the war time (under difficult circumstances). As I explained in my post last night, I do like how Treacy brought out the 'people' aspects of the railway.

 

When do Bill Anderson's earliest pictures date from? There's a 'story' somewhere between Treacy and Anderson that I haven't quite got to the bottom of (perhaps someone on here knows?). There's a classic (in my eyes at least!) Treacy picture of 'Duchess' 46223 'Princess Alice' climbing Beattock at first light with the last northbound overnight sleeper train. I wish I could post a picture of it - best I can do is point to the reference on the Getty images site:

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/princess-coronation-class-steam-locomotive-no-46223-news-photo/90748226

Hopefully you'll recognise it? (needs straightening up a bit - he must have been excited as he pressed the shutter. I would have been!)

 

Except in some of my 'Duchess' books, the same picture appears credited to Bill Anderson!!? Did they join forces on the same trip and were thus standing together to take the same picture?

 

Except, when you look closely at the two pictures side-by-side, it's the same loco, hauling the same train (ie the same service) but it's clearly a different day as the two trains are different formations!

 

What's more, I've found a second Anderson picture at the same location. Same loco, same service, different formation again. So that's now three versions of what appears to be the same picture, two by Anderson, one by Treacy.

 

Who found the 'spot' first and did they tell the other about it? Unlike Shap, photography on Beattock was much more challenging as the telegraph poles were on the 'wrong' side of the line in relation to the direction of the lighting. The location of the 46223 pictures (Greskine) was only possible early morning before the sun moved round.

 

And whilst we're on photographers in northern climes, an honourable mention for the work of Stephen Crook who was also a very fine railway photographer.

Edited by LNER4479
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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've not seen Ben Ashworth's work, Alan,

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I suspect you have, but possibly not realised it. He photographed a lot of Gloucestershire, the Forest of Dean, and into mid wales. Like John Spencer-Gills and Mike Esau he captured trains in the landscape, and their images for me are incredibly useful to see the environment at the time.

DDB00EF4-3D27-42E2-9AB3-226940A25E4D.jpeg.b43f4701a87cd859a7acbc3b2080dfd9.jpeg

His (Ashworth’s) images inspired me to get views like this into my layouts, which the public at shows could also get.

 

Edited by PMP
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19 hours ago, A.R. said:

Hi, 

 

I would be interested to see pictures of these if you have any or know where there may be some? 

 

Regarding the Gresley 4-8-2, I am getting very tempted to make one myself! Probably with a scratchbuilt chassis....I will have to add it to the ever growing "to do" list! 

 

Cheers, 

 

Alex

The 7 1/4 version is based at the Bentley Railway near Uckfield. There are or were some pics on their website. A chap called Kevan Ayling built one of the 5" versions and is currently building a 2nd. He is a member of Worthing Model Engineers, so there may be some pictures on their website. Kevan also built a fine 5" Bulleid Leader. I regret that currently i cant access my own photographs, which are in storage.

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Camden,

 

What an extraordinary piece of work.

 

I feel quite ashamed in a way with what I usually do with tender interiors. That is to solder a piece of flat brass, just below the top of the sides of my tenders, then, after painting, just fill it with (real) coal, even allowing some to spill over to the rear, around the dome and water filler. Thus, any detail (not that there is any) is buried.

 

Would anyone actually model a tender interior like the one you've shown? By that I mean, on an operating model railway like Little Bytham, most of the locos' tenders would be fairly full of coal (even the Up 'Lizzie's' tender used to have plenty left by Kings Cross). The only time a tender's interior would be so visible is just as its towed out of the paint shop for weighing or in a museum. Splendid work, nonetheless. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Interestingly, I can remember a friends evening at Pendon Museum a few years ago. One of the other guests was a former GW engineman. After watching trains pass for a good while,  he turned to the guide and laughingly said that during his career he would have been delighted to have so much coal in the tender when passing through the Vale, Instead of having shovelled a few tons of the stuff.

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1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

I think that's a fair shout Tony. I think he was probably the better technical photographer than Treacy (not by much!), subjects always beautifully composed and lit and pin sharp.

 

I think where Treacy stole a march was that he was simply active earlier; many of classic pictures are pre-war 1930s work and even some taken during the war time (under difficult circumstances). As I explained in my post last night, I do like how Treacy brought out the 'people' aspects of the railway.

 

When do Bill Anderson's earliest pictures date from? There's a 'story' somewhere between Treacy and Anderson that I haven't quite got to the bottom of (perhaps someone on here knows?). There's a classic (in my eyes at least!) Treacy picture of 'Duchess' 46223 'Princess Alice' climbing Beattock at first light with the last northbound overnight sleeper train. I wish I could post a picture of it - best I can do is point to the reference on the Getty images site:

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/princess-coronation-class-steam-locomotive-no-46223-news-photo/90748226

Hopefully you'll recognise it? (needs straightening up a bit - he must have been excited as he pressed the shutter. I would have been!)

 

Except in some of my 'Duchess' books, the same picture appears credited to Bill Anderson!!? Did they join forces on the same trip and were thus standing together to take the same picture?

 

Except, when you look closely at the two pictures side-by-side, it's the same loco, hauling the same train (ie the same service) but it's clearly a different day as the two trains are different formations!

 

What's more, I've found a second Anderson picture at the same location. Same loco, same service, different formation again. So that's now three versions of what appears to be the same picture, two by Anderson, one by Treacy.

 

Who found the 'spot' first and did they tell the other about it? Unlike Shap, photography on Beattock was much more challenging as the telegraph poles were on the 'wrong' side of the line in relation to the direction of the lighting. The location of the 46223 pictures (Greskine) was only possible early morning before the sun moved round.

 

And whilst we're on photographers in northern climes, an honourable mention for the work of Stephen Crook who was also a very fine railway photographer.

Thanks Graham,

 

I really don't know.

 

What about Derek Cross? Isn't he, and his friend, Ivo Peters, on your layout of Shap?

 

Derek Cross used a Linhof Teknika plate camera. A very serious bit of kit.

 

Regards, 

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, PMP said:

I suspect you have, but possibly not realised it. He photographed a lot of Gloucestershire, the Forest of Dean, and into mid wales. Like John Spencer-Gills and Mike Esau he captured trains in the landscape, and their images for me are incredibly useful to see the environment at the time.

DDB00EF4-3D27-42E2-9AB3-226940A25E4D.jpeg.b43f4701a87cd859a7acbc3b2080dfd9.jpeg

His (Ashworth’s) images inspired me to get views like this into my layouts, which the public at shows could also get.

 

 

Absolutely agree!

 (must fit those bunker steps).

 

20200531_152359.jpg.a505334e1fe05a01c1cf5e02abebddda.jpg

 

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Camden,

 

What an extraordinary piece of work.

 

I feel quite ashamed in a way with what I usually do with tender interiors. That is to solder a piece of flat brass, just below the top of the sides of my tenders, then, after painting, just fill it with (real) coal, even allowing some to spill over to the rear, around the dome and water filler. Thus, any detail (not that there is any) is buried.

 

Would anyone actually model a tender interior like the one you've shown? By that I mean, on an operating model railway like Little Bytham, most of the locos' tenders would be fairly full of coal (even the Up 'Lizzie's' tender used to have plenty left by Kings Cross). The only time a tender's interior would be so visible is just as its towed out of the paint shop for weighing or in a museum. Splendid work, nonetheless. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Might be good for Wartime locos, to represent the indifferent dross many of them had to run on?

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14 hours ago, gregpokes1/Camden said:

 

image.png

As @gregpokes1/Camdenmentioned earlier and shown off his beautiful Mallard tender (which is a Locomotion Models version that he added various details to), I'm working on various versions of the detailed inserts. These inserts are only a visual representation of the real thing, not dimensionally accurate (sorry)! I do have a few tweaks to do with these versions before counting them as "finished," mainly fixes for printing issues. Below is the other version for the non-corridor tender, a detailed Hornby version, along with the first test print of the raised bunker back. The high backed tender for the non-corridor tender is also for preserved 60008. There are so many variations of the non-streamlined corridor tender due to the differences with the preserved tenders.

 

The two corner, rivet strips, and the tender door are all separate prints. A flush riveted door has also been made. I do not have any plans for streamlined faring, as that will involve sanding to be proper, along with the shell needing modification for the extended front faring (Look at the Hornby Garter Blue W1 tender to see what I mean if confused). 

 

As mentioned above, most modelers will model their tenders full of coal, so details will get lost sadly. These would be perfect for the preserved modelers and the not-as-filled tenders.

 

For replacing the inserts, really simple to cut out (I've already cut out three! One of each tender variant ;)). The Hornby inserts are not part of the shell, just glued in (look at the Hornby W1 progress shots to see what I mean). Cut from the bottom along the edge, breaking the glue joint. And then push the insert towards the bottom of the tender, cutting any bits of glue still in. These new inserts should be a simple slide in and glue.

 

We will post our progress and further info when there's more to show ;) I do have a lot more drawing to do now! Any questions feel free to ask!

Non-Corridor Insert.png

Mallard Insert.png

Mallard Test Print Back.png

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