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17 hours ago, johndon said:

 

Forgot to mention that the photo I posted is also notable as it shows the only completed example I've ever seen of the Modern Outline Kits Class 40, built by Martin Lloyd.

 

 

I remember Martin building the MOK EE Type 4. If memory serves, the bodywork was erected just like the real thing. 

 

It first ran on Biggleswade (in OO), was immensely powerful but rather slow. 

 

I assume it's just been re-wheeled/re-gauged and (if it's still a bit slow) its lack of pace is not a problem now. 

 

Either way, it's one of the finest models of an EE Type 4 I've ever seen.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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40 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I remember Martin building the MOK EE Type 4. If memory serves, the bodywork was erected just like the real thing. 

 

It first ran on Biggleswade (in OO), was immensely powerful but rather slow. 

 

I assume it's just been re-wheeled/re-gauged and (if it's still a bit slow) its lack of pace is not a problem now. 

 

Either way, it's one of the finest models of an EE Type 4 I've ever seen.

 

 

Yes, it has been re-wheeled and is still very powerful if a little slow.  It also makes quite a racket, it certainly doesn't need a sound chip :)

 

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3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

So far as I can establish, and with reference to the amended diagrams that (if I recall correctly) Clive sent me, none of the Silver Jubilee ones were altered but all of the others were, except the two twins destroyed in the Huntingdon fire, which is what led to the alterations.

 

The Twin-FOs had the doors on one side of each vehicle such that the doors were on opposite sides of the train. Viewed from the outside, the additional door was visible on the right-hand vehicle. Each vehicle thereby lost two seats.


The BTO-TO twins and the RT-TO twins each had the extra door on one side of the TO (the side with the single seats, thereby losing two seats). The TO vehicles were laid out opposite ways round in terms of which side had the single seats so that on the BTO-TO twin with the brake to the left when viewed from the outside, there was no additional door visible, as shown in the photo of E1727/8E in LNER Carriages (Harris) page 70. Harris is incorrect in stating that this twin was not modified - he was looking at the wrong side.


On the RT-TO twin with the RT on the left viewed from the outside, there was an extra door visible on the TO.


On the BTO-RT twin, the extra door was on the BTO on the side with the single seats only, so with the RT to the left and BTO to the right when viewed from the outside, you could see the extra door on the BTO.
 

Hi Robert and all

 

The diagrams.

 

1296132544_TwinOpenfirst1.png.9d9cd099412a2fed0cdb7f381f1e7611.png

1749098284_TwinOpenfirst2.png.7baa1421b7c7cbfe7e59c084a04572fe.png

Twin open first.

 

1844616465_TwinOpenThirdBrake1.png.6d7823565fc4938b39c64797c9083104.png

625723640_Twinopenthirdbrake2.png.0af4b640ddf1450397a4c3b8bf7de587.png

 

Twin Open Brake Third

 

78934731_TwinRestaurantbrakethird1.png.f4efbc4547f792aeda4bec7b23bb3c10.png

1518910162_TwinRestaurantbrakethird2.png.6373b93d2fca2e37e2aa2591af9d365e.png

 

Twin Restaurant Brake Third

 

403591481_TwinRestaurantopenthird1.png.19d32c1c00af4452faeff46bc70ed1f9.png

973526152_TwinRestaurantopenthird2.png.ff1a22e3d6836f8df778997d28385d93.png

 

Twin Restaurant open Third.

 

I hope these are of some use. Well worth the couple of bob each from Collectors Corner back in the 80s.

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3 hours ago, Headstock said:

The Twin FO-FO is carriages number two and three behind the loco. The extra door can be seen at the far end of carriage number two above the articulated bogie.

 

Photo courtesy of Derek Shore, Digital sky shot and comped by me.

 

Photo 1 Leicester South The South Yorkshireman copy.jpg

A lovely image, Andrew,

 

Thanks for posting it.

 

Somewhere, I have the studio images I took of your complete 'South Yorkshireman' train. 

 

I'm sorting through lots of stuff at the moment. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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16 minutes ago, 31A said:

LNER Pacifics are never very far from this thread, and I thought readers might be interested to see how I've been improving a Hornby one recently.  I have addressed what to me is its biggest shortcoming appearance wise, the way the cylinder covers are moulded flat rather than following the radius of the cylinders.  I have written about how I did it on my layout thread:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83030-train-spotting-at-finsbury-square/page/29/&tab=comments#comment-4245372

 

IMG_3869.jpg.71966ccaccbda377a75f5459f84a7104.jpgP1030044.jpg.35b917e6c0cb9293ae43f60d60c0be2a.jpg

 

I've seen a number of A4s altered in an attempt to "fix" the cylinder turn under. That's one of the best.

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

A lovely image, Andrew,

 

Thanks for posting it.

 

Somewhere, I have the studio images I took of your complete 'South Yorkshireman' train. 

 

I'm sorting through lots of stuff at the moment. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

I still have the digital poof print of your photographs, in the back end leaf of 'Great Central from the Footplate. The follow on article never happened though, typically of me. It was the first proper train that I ever built and very much inspired by and a follow up to the Elizabethan set. The South Yorkshireman was a similar train, in the sense that it was predominantly formed of Thompson carriages.

 

The construction was similar to the Elizabethan, the major innovation being, the cutting away of the moulded battery boxes from the angle iron. They were replaced with MJT castings and strapping mounted inboard. The train looks somewhat dated nowadays and I have often considered revisiting and revamping it. It would be worth updating  the Bachmann Gresley bogies (they were re- wheeled) for example, as they are too short in the wheelbase for 8' 6'' 'standards', bad Bachmann. I converted some later Thompsons in a more advanced way and later ones still were virtually all brass with MJT fittings. One of the noticeable things about the carriages in your photographs, is the knuckle couplings. These were later replaced with the T W hook and bar system. This is has become standard on fixed rakes with working gangways.

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1 hour ago, 31A said:

LNER Pacifics are never very far from this thread, and I thought readers might be interested to see how I've been improving a Hornby one recently.  I have addressed what to me is its biggest shortcoming appearance wise, the way the cylinder covers are moulded flat rather than following the radius of the cylinders.  I have written about how I did it on my layout thread:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83030-train-spotting-at-finsbury-square/page/29/&tab=comments#comment-4245372

 

IMG_3869.jpg.71966ccaccbda377a75f5459f84a7104.jpgP1030044.jpg.35b917e6c0cb9293ae43f60d60c0be2a.jpg

 

It certainly is a big improvement, Steve.

 

You've made an excellent job.

 

A couple of points, if I may? 

 

Having recently built 60013 from a South Eastern Finecast kit, after she was fitted with a double chimney I could find no picture of her with anything on her cabside below the number; no Dominion coat of arms, nor worksplate. Which photo references did you use, please? I've instructed Geoff Haynes to not fix anything on the cabs, but they do look nicer with worksplates.

 

Secondly, did you consider putting the strip on the bottom of the soleplate on her 1935-style streamlined corridor tender? It used to carry a stainless steel embellishment. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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55 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Tony,

 

I still have the digital poof print of your photographs, in the back end leaf of 'Great Central from the Footplate. The follow on article never happened though, typically of me. It was the first proper train that I ever built and very much inspired by and a follow up to the Elizabethan set. The South Yorkshireman was a similar train, in the sense that it was predominantly formed of Thompson carriages.

 

The construction was similar to the Elizabethan, the major innovation being, the cutting away of the moulded battery boxes from the angle iron. They were replaced with MJT castings and strapping mounted inboard. The train looks somewhat dated nowadays and I have often considered revisiting and revamping it. It would be worth updating  the Bachmann Gresley bogies (they were re- wheeled) for example, as they are too short in the wheelbase for 8' 6'' 'standards', bad Bachmann. I converted some later Thompsons in a more advanced way and later ones still were virtually all brass with MJT fittings. One of the noticeable things about the carriages in your photographs, is the knuckle couplings. These were later replaced with the T W hook and bar system. This is has become standard on fixed rakes with working gangways.

Good evening Andrew,

 

I also have the proof prints, but it'll take time to find the disc of images. 

 

I'm not sure the train looks 'dated' at all (though your current standards are exceptional). 

 

Can you remember when (and where?) I took the pictures? It would be nice to think they might be published at some future time.

 

If I can find the disc, I'll put a couple of images on here. I'm sure they'll prove of interest. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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51 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

It certainly is a big improvement, Steve.

 

You've made an excellent job.

 

A couple of points, if I may? 

 

Having recently built 60013 from a South Eastern Finecast kit, after she was fitted with a double chimney I could find no picture of her with anything on her cabside below the number; no Dominion coat of arms, nor worksplate. Which photo references did you use, please? I've instructed Geoff Haynes to not fix anything on the cabs, but they do look nicer with worksplates.

 

Secondly, did you consider putting the strip on the bottom of the soleplate on her 1935-style streamlined corridor tender? It used to carry a stainless steel embellishment. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Good evening Tony,

 

On a similar theme, I'm about to start a #9 conversion (for my Lizzie). I can’t find anything definitive about when she carried the coat of arms on the cab side. I’ve found photos with and without and it looks like she lost the coat of arms in the late fifties and regained it later. Does that sound right? Can anyone help with dates?

 

Regards

 

Andy 

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57 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

It certainly is a big improvement, Steve.

 

You've made an excellent job.

 

A couple of points, if I may? 

 

Having recently built 60013 from a South Eastern Finecast kit, after she was fitted with a double chimney I could find no picture of her with anything on her cabside below the number; no Dominion coat of arms, nor worksplate. Which photo references did you use, please? I've instructed Geoff Haynes to not fix anything on the cabs, but they do look nicer with worksplates.

 

Secondly, did you consider putting the strip on the bottom of the soleplate on her 1935-style streamlined corridor tender? It used to carry a stainless steel embellishment. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thank you , Tony.  There's always something, isn't there.

 

When I got it, my friend John Shaw had already renumbered the model from the 60031 "Golden Plover" produced by Hornby, to 60013.  I think he said he used Fox transfers for the numbers, but I think it was just the numbers and not a complete cab side transfer including lining etc.  So it looks as though the works plate on the cabside is part of the Hornby printing for 60031.  I took it at face value and didn't look closely at the cab side of 60013 in the pictures I consulted.  John did point out that he'd moved the electrification warning flash at the front from the green, onto the black part of the casing, as per pictures of 60013!  And he had made a nice new whistle for it.

 

I must admit, now I look again (for example in Keith Pirt's "Gresley's A4s - The BR Era in colour") as you say, there doesn't appear to be anything below the numbers.  If not on the cab side, where else were the works plates carried on A4s?

 

Yes, I now realise and see from looking at pictures of that tender that it did have the strip at the bottom of the side which had carried the stainless steel trim.  It hadn't dawned on me previously.

 

I only tend to put pictures of my projects up on my layout thread once they're finished, in case they never do get finished, but perhaps I should put them up as 'works in progress' then people could point out errors before I've gone too far to rectify them!
 

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I've not seen the Derby 2 pictures before Tony, thanks for posting them. The WD 90674 is mine too, on Gifford Street I think. It was built over 25 years ago! My first venture into O gauge.

 

Best Regards

Tony

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1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Good evening Tony,

 

On a similar theme, I'm about to start a #9 conversion (for my Lizzie). I can’t find anything definitive about when she carried the coat of arms on the cab side. I’ve found photos with and without and it looks like she lost the coat of arms in the late fifties and regained it later. Does that sound right? Can anyone help with dates?

 

Regards

 

Andy 

Good evening Andy,

 

Geoff Haynes has my 'definitive' book on the A4s (Irwell) at the moment. 

 

I'll look through what else I've got.

 

I know it's hackneyed advice, but, if you can, find an authenticated photograph (date-wise) and make the model from that. 

 

Regarding the coats of arms; these were hand-painted on steel plates and screwed (or bolted) to the lower cabsides after the loco was painted. They'd be removed first and, presumably, touched-up as necessary. Certainly, 60013 lost hers, but where? And why? Could it be that the guy who painted the coats of arms (a highly-skilled man) retired or wasn't available, and it was considered they were too tatty to re-fix?  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

Thank you , Tony.  There's always something, isn't there.

 

When I got it, my friend John Shaw had already renumbered the model from the 60031 "Golden Plover" produced by Hornby, to 60013.  I think he said he used Fox transfers for the numbers, but I think it was just the numbers and not a complete cab side transfer including lining etc.  So it looks as though the works plate on the cabside is part of the Hornby printing for 60031.  I took it at face value and didn't look closely at the cab side of 60013 in the pictures I consulted.  John did point out that he'd moved the electrification warning flash at the front from the green, onto the black part of the casing, as per pictures of 60013!  And he had made a nice new whistle for it.

 

I must admit, now I look again (for example in Keith Pirt's "Gresley's A4s - The BR Era in colour") as you say, there doesn't appear to be anything below the numbers.  If not on the cab side, where else were the works plates carried on A4s?

 

Yes, I now realise and see from looking at pictures of that tender that it did have the strip at the bottom of the side which had carried the stainless steel trim.  It hadn't dawned on me previously.

 

I only tend to put pictures of my projects up on my layout thread once they're finished, in case they never do get finished, but perhaps I should put them up as 'works in progress' then people could point out errors before I've gone too far to rectify them!
 

Good evening Steve,

 

I think the worksplates on the 'Coronation' A4s were attached to the inside of the cab roof.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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30 minutes ago, dibateg said:

I've not seen the Derby 2 pictures before Tony, thanks for posting them. The WD 90674 is mine too, on Gifford Street I think. It was built over 25 years ago! My first venture into O gauge.

 

Best Regards

Tony

Thanks Tony,

 

I hadn't realised that the WD was your work; very nice, too. 

 

Is that the same loco I took pictures of on Woden Road all those years ago in Wolverhampton? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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14 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Andy,

 

Geoff Haynes has my 'definitive' book on the A4s (Irwell) at the moment. 

 

I'll look through what else I've got.

 

I know it's hackneyed advice, but, if you can, find an authenticated photograph (date-wise) and make the model from that. 

 

Regarding the coats of arms; these were hand-painted on steel plates and screwed (or bolted) to the lower cabsides after the loco was painted. They'd be removed first and, presumably, touched-up as necessary. Certainly, 60013 lost hers, but where? And why? Could it be that the guy who painted the coats of arms (a highly-skilled man) retired or wasn't available, and it was considered they were too tatty to re-fix?  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks Tony,

 

Don’t go to any special trouble on my behalf - I thought with your encyclopaedic knowledge you’d know the answer straight off. I have checked my main A4 books ( ‘Power of’, Pirt’s ‘Gresleys A4s’ and Tuffrey) but don’t have the Irwell book. Does that have dates for detail changes? If so, I’ll have to invest. 
 

Looking  for a picture of the loco in Summer 1957 is quite hard. Especially difficult having chosen a preserved one, as putting 60009 Elizabethan into google throws up a multitude of railtours - even if I add the date it seems to ignore me!
 

All the best

 

Andy

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Andrew,

 

I also have the proof prints, but it'll take time to find the disc of images. 

 

I'm not sure the train looks 'dated' at all (though your current standards are exceptional). 

 

Can you remember when (and where?) I took the pictures? It would be nice to think they might be published at some future time.

 

If I can find the disc, I'll put a couple of images on here. I'm sure they'll prove of interest. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Evening Tony,

 

There are a number of features that are present on the South Yorkshireman that are not an issue on the Elizabethan. You will have replaced the aforementioned under scale bogies, as the PV stock had H D bogies throughout. The torpedoed vents that I used are horrible great chunky affairs, future builds standardised on a much neater scale version.  The Elizabethan of course didn't require torpedo vents.  The TK's suffer from the corridor windows having the windows transposed, a fault on the Comet artwork. I believe tis was corrected after the sale of the company. The paint finish is neatly applied but looks disappointingly RTR. Nowadays it would have more of a sheen, rather than just going with a semi gloss varnish supplied by a manufacturer. The Elizabethan has a much more realistic looking finish, even after all these years.

 

The roof boards brackets didn't work very well and still work lose, they need replacing. In addition to the battery boxes, the dynamo, vac cylinders and reservoir were replace on later builds, the original dynamo in particular looks quite comical. There are other more dated aspects to the build, for example retaining the original clip and fit attachment method between the bodies and the floor. What I learned from all this was, it was worth going that extra mile, as once something is finished it should be finished for life. In comparison a full set of Comet carriage kits was constructed for Tebay are still satisfactory all these years later.

 

I'm not sure of the date that the images were taken, I think after 1999 but before Tebay went of the circuit, I think in 2004. The images were shot in the club rooms at Shipley.

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35 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Steve,

 

I think the worksplates on the 'Coronation' A4s were attached to the inside of the cab roof.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thank you Tony - I wouldn't have thought of looking there!  I was wondering where I should put them, if I took them off the cab sides.  I'm not sure how I'd attach the extra strip to the bottom of the Hornby tender as it should be flush with the sides, so I'm afraid I'll probably have to leave it, unfortunately.

 

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4 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

Thank you Tony - I wouldn't have thought of looking there!  I was wondering where I should put them, if I took them off the cab sides.  I'm not sure how I'd attach the extra strip to the bottom of the Hornby tender as it should be flush with the sides, so I'm afraid I'll probably have to leave it, unfortunately.

 

 

Dominion of Canada when it was over for it's holiday

 

DSCF7624.JPG.a3219fa5f8256eb0604b3c9710d9a8fb.JPG

 

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