Wright writes.....

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks for the whistle photo.

 

I don’t understand your roof comments. It would be helpful if you could provide a bit more context when you issue dogmatic instructions! Are you saying the eaves should be black? If so, to and from what dates were they black? I can certainly find some prototype photos where they look green, although it’s difficult to tell under the layers of grime. 
 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Morning Greenie,

 

Re roof colour, it's something that Tony keeps pointing out to you and you keep ignoring, . I don't have a dogma in the fight, I just find it funny. I assumed that you know better and with a bit of prompting, you might provide some interesting evidence.

 

I almost forgot, I have a set of drawings from the Department of Railways, New South Wales, for the Whistle fitted to 60012 if you are interested? I think they are similar.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Headstock
add info

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, richard i said:

One of the best n gauge / 2mm layouts I saw was just down from you at the last show I visited before lock down ,  Stevenage? Milton Keynes? It was not that long, had a small station at one end and ran green diesels but it looked great and drew you in. I watched it for ages, but can’t remember its name. 
if you went round the show with your camera, maybe you have a shot of it which would illustrate to others what I mean.

richard 

Fence Houses?

[t-b-g]

6 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Fence Houses?

 

Unlikely if "not that long" was part of the description.

[robertcwp]

2 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Unlikely if "not that long" was part of the description.

Good point!

[chris p bacon]

1 hour ago, richard i said:

One of the best n gauge / 2mm layouts I saw was just down from you at the last show I visited before lock down ,  Stevenage? Milton Keynes? It was not that long, had a small station at one end and ran green diesels but it looked great and drew you in. I watched it for ages, but can’t remember its name. 
if you went round the show with your camera, maybe you have a shot of it which would illustrate to others what I mean.

richard 

Sounds like 'Little Salkeld' to me.   Built by @paulontheball he might be able to post a few pics to confirm. 

[dibateg]

Ah yes - Fencehouses, do you have any photos of that layout Tony?

[Sandpiper]

I remember spending ages looking at Chee Tor at an exhibition many years ago. Whilst I was there a man and small boy came and stood beside me. After watching two trains go past the man turned to the boy and said, "They're not going very fast are they?" With that they walked away. I guess not everyone appreciates such outstanding scenic modelling!

Edited January 31, 2021 by Sandpiper

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Barry O said:

Don't  see much point in doing that Tony..you are always right and don't answer questions.

 

Baz

What an odd comment...........

 

You're entirely wrong in both your points.

 

Probably best to say no more.

[Tony Wright]

27 minutes ago, dibateg said:

Ah yes - Fencehouses, do you have any photos of that layout Tony?

I'm afraid not, Tony.

 

There - I've just answered a question!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

I have a question now.

 

Does anyone know anything about this model, please?

 

 

It's N Gauge and I've labelled it 'Union Mills' in the folder it comes from. 

 

Where I photographed it, I can't remember, though it was when I was building 'Big Bertha'. 

 

I've also forgotten who plonked it in front of my camera. 

 

It has a look of a Q1, but none of those made it to BR times, and the tender looks like an LNER Group Standard type. It's numbered as a Q6 (I think), but it's definitely not one of those.

 

Other items I've photographed from Union Mills are much more-accurate, so why have I labelled it thus? 

 

As I say, any ideas, please?  

 

 

 

 

[Barry Ten]

It appears that Union Mills made a Q2, Tony. 

 

Not knowing much about LNER locos, I don't know how accurate it was.

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, 31A said:

 

I looked at lots of pictures of A4s in BR livery recently when I was weathering my 60013, and certainly found a few where it looked as though the roof eaves were painted green (although as you say, difficult to tell), so I left them green on mine.  I concluded that it was possible that they were painted green, but rarely cleaned.

 

Good afternoon Steve,

 

I've looked through my collection of potentially-helpful shots and found none which shows the area above the cab roof eaves to be green.

 

Granted, none of the following shows an ex-works loco, but most are clean....................

 

 

Though there (slight) evidence of green above the beading on the tender, the cab roof is all-over black. 

 

 

 

 

Note how the green (just) carries over the top curve on the tender, but there's no evidence of it on the cab roof.

 

 

 

 

 

And, just to prove I'm definitely not always right..............

 

 

Didn't I state that the cab roof above the eaves was green when the locos were in LNER apple green? 

 

Anyway, just what is LNER green? Is one in Darlington's interpretation and the other in Doncaster's? 

 

Is it safe to say that, whatever the painting spec might have stated, for a working model, it's best to paint the cab roofs all-over black?

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, richard i said:

One of the best n gauge / 2mm layouts I saw was just down from you at the last show I visited before lock down ,  Stevenage? Milton Keynes? It was not that long, had a small station at one end and ran green diesels but it looked great and drew you in. I watched it for ages, but can’t remember its name. 
if you went round the show with your camera, maybe you have a shot of it which would illustrate to others what I mean.

richard 

Stevenage, last year, I think Richard.

 

Little Salkeld......................

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[chris p bacon]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Stevenage, last year, I think Richard.

 

Little Salkeld......................

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Having helped Paul with a few minor parts of the build I can confirm that at least one of the layout builders has 'Pedigree'....more specifically 'Pedigree Chum' as I made a right dogs mess of working in 2mm 

[Tony Wright]

With the recent mention of 'railways in a landscape', I thought how does Little Bytham fit into that category?

 

Now, I'm not for one second putting it into the same class as Chee Tor, Copenhagen Fields or Pendon (or Barry Norman's Petherick) - they represent the pinnacles of 'landscape' modelling.

 

Anyway, LB doesn't have the magnificent hills and gorges of Chee Tor nor the wonderful urban sprawl of Copenhagen Fields. After all, it resides in the modest, shallow valley of the River Glen, where the horizon to the east is half a mile away, and to the west a quarter of a mile. There is no aerial nor atmospheric perspective; nothing grandiose at all.

 

However, attention has been paid to placing the railway in its surroundings, ensuring it has space to 'breath'. Great car was taken not to get things cramped up and there's probably as much outside the railway boundary as there is in it. 

 

I think it's 'worked'. 

 

 

 

 

 

It's probably more-effective as a 'watching the trains go by' layout, even though there's nothing pegged in any of these shots. 

[Michael Edge]

5 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

 

Phew! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that as it was (is?) otherwise a fantastic layout, fulling deserving of the accolades on here.

 

I think it's a bit harsh (John) to say that it spoiled the illusion totally. For me it 'jarred a bit', but it was easy enough to simply ignore the left hand end and concentrate on the amazing recreation of the gorge of the Wye valley. Absolutely the best use of 2mm scale and impractical to do in 4mm as you wouldn't be able to get at the centre to either model or view it.

 

I saw it at several shows and 'stayed to the death' at its final show (Manchester - obviously - can't remember the year) to see the 'last' train run.

That's what spoiled it for me as well - the Midland had the largest multi track mileage in the world at one time and never as far as I know had a single track main line.

[4630]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't I state that the cab roof above the eaves was green when the locos were in LNER apple green? 

 

Anyway, just what is LNER green? Is one in Darlington's interpretation and the other in Doncaster's? 

 

Is it safe to say that, whatever the painting spec might have stated, for a working model, it's best to paint the cab roofs all-over black?

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

That last image is interesting Tony in the context of RTR manufacturers attempting to get the colours consistent and ‘right’ on their offerings, and dare I say it, occasionally getting taken to task in magazine reviews.  
 

Regards

 

Russ

Edited January 31, 2021 by 4630

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

 

 

Tony,

 

Your pictures suggest that the roofs are either black or very dirty, however I think there is a hint of green on some - particularly 60107 above. These photos are colour and therefore presumably early '60s or very late '50s? I seems to me that it's quite possible that they were painted green in the early to mid '50s and that clean ones - like those on the Lizzie, would show some evidence of that green.

 

I think I'll cover my options and paint No.13 black, but leave No.9 green and weather it lightly.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Andy

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

5 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Morning Greenie,

 

Re roof colour, it's something that Tony keeps pointing out to you and you keep ignoring, . I don't have a dogma in the fight, I just find it funny. I assumed that you know better and with a bit of prompting, you might provide some interesting evidence.

 

I almost forgot, I have a set of drawings from the Department of Railways, New South Wales, for the Whistle fitted to 60012 if you are interested? I think they are similar.

Afternoon 'Heady',

 

I vaguely remember an exchange on here in the past although I don't think it was about one of my models. I certainly couldn't remember the conclusion. Anyway, the debate it has unleashed has been informative and Tony has provided plenty of evidence although I still think the jury's out on whether all locos were black, particularly in the early '50s.

 

Your whistle drawings would be very useful - thanks for the offer.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Headstock]

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Steve,

 

I've looked through my collection of potentially-helpful shots and found none which shows the area above the cab roof eaves to be green.

 

Granted, none of the following shows an ex-works loco, but most are clean....................

 

 

Though there (slight) evidence of green above the beading on the tender, the cab roof is all-over black. 

 

 

 

 

Note how the green (just) carries over the top curve on the tender, but there's no evidence of it on the cab roof.

 

 

 

 

 

And, just to prove I'm definitely not always right..............

 

 

Didn't I state that the cab roof above the eaves was green when the locos were in LNER apple green? 

 

Anyway, just what is LNER green? Is one in Darlington's interpretation and the other in Doncaster's? 

 

Is it safe to say that, whatever the painting spec might have stated, for a working model, it's best to paint the cab roofs all-over black?

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

did BR paint the eaves on ex LNER Pacific's body colour? The answer is yes, at least on some locomotives. It was a bit of a pointless exercise, as the area was obliterated by dirt within days and nobody bothered to clean that area. The LNER had found the same thing before the war and seem to have discontinued the practice.

 

60129 

 

 

60103.

 

 

 

On the other hand, 60501 looks to be in plain black. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Headstock

[grahame]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm afraid not, Tony.

 

 

I've some (photos of Fencehouses, that is), although they're not very good. Here's a few of them:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard i]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Stevenage, last year, I think Richard.

 

Little Salkeld......................

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Yes thank you Tony, it really was worth the admission ticket price on its own, and that is from a pregrouping modeler.
Richard  

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Afternoon 'Heady',

 

I vaguely remember an exchange on here in the past although I don't think it was about one of my models. I certainly couldn't remember the conclusion. Anyway, the debate it has unleashed has been informative and Tony has provided plenty of evidence although I still think the jury's out on whether all locos were black, particularly in the early '50s.

 

Your whistle drawings would be very useful - thanks for the offer.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Evening Greenoid,

 

I'll PM you after diner with the Whistle drawings.

 

One colour black / dirty roofs on ex LNER Pacific's, would have been the norm out on the road. Only ex works running in turns show such a clean roof, if it had not been painted over all black The amount of weathering applied to your A4 loco, I don't see how the cab roof stayed so clean, it must have been wearing a nice greenie hat.

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Headstock

[chris p bacon]

3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Afternoon 'Heady',

 

 

I couldn't resist it.

 

 

[grob1234]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Steve,

 

I've looked through my collection of potentially-helpful shots and found none which shows the area above the cab roof eaves to be green.

 

Granted, none of the following shows an ex-works loco, but most are clean....................

 

 

Though there (slight) evidence of green above the beading on the tender, the cab roof is all-over black. 

 

 

 

 

Note how the green (just) carries over the top curve on the tender, but there's no evidence of it on the cab roof.

 

 

 

 

 

And, just to prove I'm definitely not always right..............

 

 

Didn't I state that the cab roof above the eaves was green when the locos were in LNER apple green? 

 

Anyway, just what is LNER green? Is one in Darlington's interpretation and the other in Doncaster's? 

 

Is it safe to say that, whatever the painting spec might have stated, for a working model, it's best to paint the cab roofs all-over black?

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Not on a C1 though?