Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

24 minutes ago, Steven B said:

 

Likewise soldering surface mount components in place (something I'm happier doing than attempting any valve gear!). There's skill to both, but it's still soldering part A to part B which some modellers never get the hang of and prefer to pay to let someone else have the enjoyment.

 

Steven B.

I understand everything you're saying, Steven,

 

However, I still come back to my original point; which is why do some folk adopt a system (DCC in this case) where they seem to be incapable of performing even the simplest of tasks? Surely, just soldering four wires (red and black to the track, orange and grey go the other way - even I know that!) is within the capability of any modeller.

 

Or, as you suggest, some never get the hang of soldering. That being the case, they're stuffed if anything electrical goes wrong. A 'hostage to fortune' I think is the phrase. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[60027Merlin]

22 hours ago, rowanj said:

I agree that a model of the Waverley route has merit. I thought, at one time, of modelling Hawick in the mid-50's which would give an excuse for having a rich mix of locos from ex-NBR veterans, through LNER classes, to BR Standards, Too late now, I suspect.

I'm not sure about the St Margarets reference as far as the A3's are concerned. While Haymarket was still a steam depot, I think this is where the express turns were normally serviced, and from where Edinburgh provided passenger motive power. 64A was the usual source for freight to the South and Carlisle. Certainly, most of my photos of 12C A3's are at 64B until that shed sent its' last locos to St Margarets. Eric/Merlin60027 will know better.

12C was an easy shed to "bunk" and as a young lad I often popped over from Newcastle to Carlisle to train spot. I was often on my own, unimaginable these days for a lad of 13 or 14. Canal seemed tiny after Upperby or Kingmoor, and I remember the shock and surprise to see big A3's there in what seemed a small rural environment,

 

During 1961 to September 1963 when Haymarket closed to steam their locos were either withdrawn or transferred to other Sheds including St. Margarets (64A). St Margarets did not have the facilities for doing much loco cleaning resulting in their generally run down appearance. They had most of The Waverley Route freight duties from Edinburgh using their V2s and K3s as well as a handful of passenger workings to Hawick normally using their B1s. It was a matter of great sadness to see Haymarket’s carefully looked after steeds with another shed plate on the smokebox door going about in beat up fashion for a year or two before withdrawal. Many of us would have preferred that they were withdrawn by 1963 rather than transferred away for a short period, A bit like seeing a champion boxer passed his peak being hammered by inferior boxers.

 

If modelling during the 50s decade then you require a fair number of A3s (the 15 from 64B plus the 4 from Carlisle Canal), V2s, B1s and K3s. The Haymarket A4s and A1s were extremely rare visitors as their link work did not include The Waverley Route. The Peppercorn A2s were not in as many workings as the other Pacific classes mentioned.

 

The Waverley Route passenger duties were worked by Haymarket and the Carlisle Canal quartet with a small number of freight turns using their V2s. As a generalization the 64B Pacifics mainly used were their A3s, the three A2/1s, their solitary A2/3 and their Peppercorn A2s. Their B1s also worked the line,

 

For the 60s,  then many other classes appeared plus the diesels and of course quite a few classes disappeared e.g. D11/2,  D49, D30, D34, etc.

 

[drmditch]

1 hour ago, 43129@stainmore said:

On Stainmore Summit we used to bank loose coupled freights in both directions. All using DC control with matched loco performance. Here is a J21 arriving with a BR 2MT on the rear. Banking up hill and subsequent piloting down hill was the essence of the whole layout. My new creation of Barnard Castle will also feature DC banking  of westbound freights using the same pool of DC locos. Here is  a glimpse of Barnard Castle station forecourt- my lockdown project!

 

Richard N

 

Thank you for showing us.

(Even if you do make my own modelling seem utterly inadequate!)

As I think others have already asked, is there any chance of you setting up a thread to show us more?

[westerner]

Thought I would show that my birthday present ( an O gauge Slaters LNER?BR brake van) which arrived a couple of weeks ago on the correct day  has turned into. The all the figures are by Modelu painted by moi.

 

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, 43129@stainmore said:

On Stainmore Summit we used to bank loose coupled freights in both directions. All using DC control with matched loco performance. Here is a J21 arriving with a BR 2MT on the rear. Banking up hill and subsequent piloting down hill was the essence of the whole layout. My new creation of Barnard Castle will also feature DC banking  of westbound freights using the same pool of DC locos. Here is  a glimpse of Barnard Castle station forecourt- my lockdown project!

 

Richard N

 

Stainmore Summit was awesome.

[Steven B]

39 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

However, I still come back to my original point; which is why do some folk adopt a system (DCC in this case) where they seem to be incapable of performing even the simplest of tasks? Surely, just soldering four wires (red and black to the track, orange and grey go the other way - even I know that!) is within the capability of any modeller.

 

You'd have to find such a person and ask them! My guess is that they're comfortable with, and enjoy playing with the functionality DCC offers - turning the lights on and off, sounding the horn/ whistle etc. Should someone be forced to miss out on the enjoyment just because they can't perform step 1 in the instruction? It's be like telling someone that they'll have to run a standard 4 tank because they can't build the kit for the A8 the actually want.

 

Having seen some peoples efforts at soldering I can see why they pay for someone else to do the work.

 

 

Steven B.

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

56 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

Can anyone explain the difference between Carr's Green and Red flux?

 

I've got on well with the green one for general purpose brass, nickle silver and white metal soldering but the last time I looked, the only one I could get through the post at present was the red one. I suppose I'll probably end up having to give it a go as I'm down to my last few drops of flux, after tipping over most of a bottle right at the start of lockdown.

Barr,

 

the Red, IIRC, is intended for white metal although it will work with brass, etc. When Hubert Carr developed his range of modelling fluxes, etc. he created a certain mystique about them which probably helped sell the various products..

 

Like Tony I use 12% phosphoric acid flux for everything (I build very few white metal kits, only wagons), from LRM in my case. LRM sell a 6% Phosphoric acid for w/m, 12% for brass and n/s. A benefit of the less powerful flux is that it apparently doesn't leach out and blacken any impurities or the other constituent metals in the w/m alloy. Eileens Emporium sell a 9% version, which I expect some people prefer as it is meant to cover both uses.

 

Jol

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, 60027Merlin said:

 

During 1961 to September 1963 when Haymarket closed to steam their locos were either withdrawn or transferred to other Sheds including St. Margarets (64A). St Margarets did not have the facilities for doing much loco cleaning resulting in their generally run down appearance. They had most of The Waverley Route freight duties from Edinburgh using their V2s and K3s as well as a handful of passenger workings to Hawick normally using their B1s. It was a matter of great sadness to see Haymarket’s carefully looked after steeds with another shed plate on the smokebox door going about in beat up fashion for a year or two before withdrawal. Many of us would have preferred that they were withdrawn by 1963 rather than transferred away for a short period, A bit like seeing a champion boxer passed his peak being hammered by inferior boxers.

 

If modelling during the 50s decade then you require a fair number of A3s (the 15 from 64B plus the 4 from Carlisle Canal), V2s, B1s and K3s. The Haymarket A4s and A1s were extremely rare visitors as their link work did not include The Waverley Route. The Peppercorn A2s were not in as many workings as the other Pacific classes mentioned.

 

The Waverley Route passenger duties were worked by Haymarket and the Carlisle Canal quartet with a small number of freight turns using their V2s. As a generalization the 64B Pacifics mainly used were their A3s, the three A2/1s, their solitary A2/3 and their Peppercorn A2s. Their B1s also worked the line,

 

For the 60s,  then many other classes appeared plus the diesels and of course quite a few classes disappeared e.g. D11/2,  D49, D30, D34, etc.

 

Good evening Eric,

 

A similar situation occurred when Top Shed closed and any residual A4s were transferred to New England in 1963 (I wonder whether it was a competition among New England, York and Gateshead to see which had the dirtiest locos?) Fortunately, their residence didn't last long, and the best headed north for a further three years to see out their final days in a glorious swansong on the Glasgow-Aberdeen expresses along with their always-Scottish-allocated siblings. Some even seemed to be kept clean, though I have an image of MERLIN, still working but in the most deplorable condition.

 

Wasn't it a Mr. Ness who got the A4s on to the ex-Caley route? A brilliant move, especially considering what they replaced, at least in part; the dismal NB Type 2s.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[D.Platt]

All the talk of different fluxes, I’ve been using the FRY powerflow flux sold in the yellow plastic tubes, Eileen’s emporium sell it as do the likes of B&Q.  I have used it for all my soldering brass, white metal, copper, spring steel pick ups.

 

[Tony Teague]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I find this a real puzzle regarding 'Pressfix' transfers..............

 

I wonder whether there are different batches produced? 

 

My recent experiences are that the newer sheets I've bought aren't anywhere near as good as those from years ago, yet others report the opposite. 

 

Hmmnnn.

 

Tony

 

My understanding was that, as others have said, there was a problem with supplies plus a need to change printers and that this produced sub-quality Pressfix sheets for a while, however, HMRS were aware of the problem and having, I believe, solved it, the very latest sheets are back to their former standard.

 

This may account for the mixed stories you are hearing, but it certainly mirrors my experience with SR Maunsell sheets where we seemed to go through a bad patch but 'normal service has now been resumed'.

 

I have no idea how you tell whether your particular sheets have been reprinted using the latest process or whether you are beeing sold old stock from the defective period; I guess that only HMRS could tell you and it may vary by sheet.

 

Tony

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Steven B said:

 

You'd have to find such a person and ask them! My guess is that they're comfortable with, and enjoy playing with the functionality DCC offers - turning the lights on and off, sounding the horn/ whistle etc. Should someone be forced to miss out on the enjoyment just because they can't perform step 1 in the instruction? It's be like telling someone that they'll have to run a standard 4 tank because they can't build the kit for the A8 the actually want.

 

Having seen some peoples efforts at soldering I can see why they pay for someone else to do the work.

 

 

Steven B.

 

 

Good evening Steven,

 

'It's be like telling someone that they'll have to run a standard 4 tank because they can't build the kit for the A8 the actually want.'

 

Then so be it. If 'they' can't build an A8 (and can't afford anyone to build one for them), I doubt if they'll need telling. 

 

I'm certainly not trying to suggest anyone should miss out on enjoying their model railways, whatever their capabilities (or lack of them). I hope I've increased some folk's enjoyment by my building locomotives for them; locomotives they couldn't build themselves. 

 

It's just that I see learning how to solder (both electrical and constructional) as surely one of the key skills to acquire (or at least attempt to) when making a model railway. Mastering the 'dark art', or at least becoming proficient at it to a degree will almost certainly increase the enjoyment of the hobby. 

 

I wonder, is it possible to build a model railway by oneself without soldering anything? I remember as a kid playing with my Tri-ang train set (which was fed by a power-connecting clip) and being frustrated by the power drop caused by the fishplates not making full electrical contact. Originally, I just laid the track on the floor, taking it up and rearranging it time after time. As a result, the fishplates suffered. It eventually was laid on a board - yes, the standard 6 x 4, but the dodgy fishplates still frustrated. Until my dad showed me how to solder flexible wires between them, attached to the outside of each adjacent rail (this was on steel track). I recall a big soldering iron, Baker's fluid (which promoted rust, though the solder certainly flowed, and at least the rust was on the outside of the rails) and a stick of solder. A solution! I even went as far as looping the wires through holes in the board to make them more-discreet - the forerunner of my soldering thousands of droppers on many layouts.

 

It was a case of needs must. I certainly could not afford to have someone do the job for me on my paper-round money.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

[Tony Wright]

13 minutes ago, D.Platt said:

All the talk of different fluxes, I’ve been using the FRY powerflow flux sold in the yellow plastic tubes, Eileen’s emporium sell it as do the likes of B&Q.  I have used it for all my soldering brass, white metal, copper, spring steel pick ups.

 

Thanks Dennis,

 

But doesn't everything turn green afterwards?

 

It did after I used it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[60027Merlin]

16 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Eric,

 

A similar situation occurred when Top Shed closed and any residual A4s were transferred to New England in 1963 (I wonder whether it was a competition among New England, York and Gateshead to see which had the dirtiest locos?) Fortunately, their residence didn't last long, and the best headed north for a further three years to see out their final days in a glorious swansong on the Glasgow-Aberdeen expresses along with their always-Scottish-allocated siblings. Some even seemed to be kept clean, though I have an image of MERLIN, still working but in the most deplorable condition.

 

Wasn't it a Mr. Ness who got the A4s on to the ex-Caley route? A brilliant move, especially considering what they replaced, at least in part; the dismal NB Type 2s.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Tony,

 

Yes,

it was James Ness, the B.R. Scottish Region General Manager at that time. He was also instrumental in getting the four preserved locos, now in the Museum of Transport, spruced up and running on the many special workings then.

 

Eric

 

[D.Platt]

Yes it does Tony , but I always wash and clean the surfaces before painting, or on valve gear a brush over with a little bleach then oiled.

Dennis

[The Fatadder]

Thanks for the flux advice, so far I have only managed to find sources of Phosphoric acid which is 80% strength, so as I don’t fancy messing around trying to dilute it I will place an order with either Eilieens or Hobby Holidays this evening 

 

fortunately there will be enough left of my current bottle to finish off the K18.   My soldering as ever is a complete mess where you can’t see it!  I definitely go for the “apply lots of heat and lots of solder” approach 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, The Fatadder said:

Thanks for the flux advice, so far I have only managed to find sources of Phosphoric acid which is 80% strength, so as I don’t fancy messing around trying to dilute it I will place an order with either Eilieens or Hobby Holidays this evening 

 

fortunately there will be enough left of my current bottle to finish off the K18.   My soldering as ever is a complete mess where you can’t see it!  I definitely go for the “apply lots of heat and lots of solder” approach 

It looks OK to me, Rich,

 

I'm reminded of what one of my mentors told me, the late Brian van Meeteren. 

 

He claimed to be the worst solderer in Rugby (if not the realm), yet this was a guy who scratch-built Thompson Pacifics. 

 

His counter claim was that he was the best cleaner-up and remover of excess solder in Rugby (if not the realm). He got so much practice!

 

Either way, I learned much from him. As I did from Mike Edge at much the same time, some 45 years ago. Both showed me how to scratch-build locos. The rest, as they say, is history. 

 

Talking to Jesse Sim the other day (of Brighton Junction fame), he opined that I was full of good ideas/methods/techniques about railway modelling. I was flattered, but I instantly came back to tell him that whatever ideas/methods/techniques I used/mentioned, none of them was mine. All have been gleaned from someone else, often, as in the case with Brian, the most modest and self-effacing of friends. 

 

It's probably my luck in being in the right place at the right time and asking the right questions of the right people.

 

Returning to soldering, if someone doesn't know how to, there is loads of help on here.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Tony

 

My understanding was that, as others have said, there was a problem with supplies plus a need to change printers and that this produced sub-quality Pressfix sheets for a while, however, HMRS were aware of the problem and having, I believe, solved it, the very latest sheets are back to their former standard.

 

This may account for the mixed stories you are hearing, but it certainly mirrors my experience with SR Maunsell sheets where we seemed to go through a bad patch but 'normal service has now been resumed'.

 

I have no idea how you tell whether your particular sheets have been reprinted using the latest process or whether you are beeing sold old stock from the defective period; I guess that only HMRS could tell you and it may vary by sheet.

 

Tony

Thanks Tony,

 

I can't remember where (or exactly when) I bought the dud 'Pressfix' sheets, but it must be over two years ago (I like to keep a stock).

 

It could well be that whoever sold them to me had had the sheets for some time, and they were the dodgy ones.

 

Just to make sure, I've gone back through my stock and found one sheet I'd forgotten about. It must date from at least ten years ago, and I wondered why I'd put it to one side, having forgotten. I soon reminded myself why: though the backing paper came off with ease and the digits stuck down well, the numbers were really thick and ill-defined. Not only that, things like '6's (which I use a lot), '4s' and the tops of '8s' had almost completely filled-in where there should be apertures. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Woodcock29]

Like others I've had problems with HMRS transfers in recent years. In my case both Methfix and Pressfix. I've always preferred Methfix and have used them since the PC days. I also understood it was a problem with the paper.

 

I always write on the pack when I got it now and from where. Most recent purchased sheets have been from Wizard. I was recently given a stock of mostly Methfix LNER gold loco/coach lettering and goods lettering sheets  by a friend who was cleaning out and as they are reasonably old I expect they'll work quite well, but haven't had cause to try them yet.

 

Andrew

[Iain.d]

For flux, I make my own. There are only two model shops left in Perth that have a broad range of modelling products; neither of which sell flux (or didn’t when I last asked). And I can’t get it posted.

 

One of  Iain Rice’s books makes mention of diluting rust remover (Jenolite was, I think, the brand he stated) with distilled water and isopropyl alcohol . So I have bottle of 34.5% solution rust remover, bought from the local DIY store, that I dilute down with distilled water, in a ratio of about 1 part rust remover to 3 parts water, putting in the water first and then adding the acid. My diluted solution goes in an old Carrs bottle. The pipette is kept for this activity alone. It seems to work without issue. If I need to reapply flux to something part soldered, the ‘in place solder’ goes black but is easily washed off with Jif.

 

 

And it seems to work fine, occasionally I can smell the fumes which I think is related to how much I slosh on rather than the concentration.

 

 

Going back to the Pressfix transfers, I’ve not experienced the numbers not sticking or the backing paper issue mentioned by some, only the lining. I have about a dozen part packets, all bought from Wizard Models, kept in the nice card box their stuff gets sent in, which in itself is kept out of the way in a drawer. These have all been purchased in the last four years, which is when I returned to modelling. That being said I do have one old GWR lining sheet I would have bought in the early 90s; I did a check on a bit last night, and it seems to adhere well and be correctly aligned.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

Edited February 5, 2021 by Iain.d
clarity

[sdmjsmith]

Tony et al,

 

I’ve just finished my third loco build!  An LRM J6 representing 64219, the last example withdrawn from Colwick, in 1962.  The only image I found of this loco was at New England in 58 fresh from the paintshop, so my weathering is based on various early 60s images of other J6s. 

 

I managed this one with only one extra set of coupling rods (John Redrup from LRM couldn’t have been more helpful with this), although the ‘sticking’ problem turned out to be a slightly out-of-whack frame alignment.  Once I’d figured out the problem a bit of judicious hand twisting and checking against an engineer’s square seemed to sort it!

 

With a Mashima 1420 motor and a High Level gearbox she starts to slip with 32 mineral wagons on my tight ‘test’ curves  (~550mm radius).  My assumption is that this is close to prototype, and it is certainly as good as anything my heavily weighted eight-coupled RTR engines can manage! 

 

With a curve tighter than 550mm the loco derails (hence, I have set myself a 600mm minimum as ‘acceptable’!) .  Interestingly it is happier going forwards than backwards.  I assume that this is something to do with the assymetrical wheelbase.  Not that I intend to do so with this model, but what modifications would be needed to get around tighter curves?  File back the axle bearings?  Build a new model railway?

 

One (other) thing I really struggle with is getting the smokebox wrappers to lie flush against the boiler tube.  Despite my best efforts to bend the wrapper gently, I keep getting a kink in the wrapper at the point where there is a hole for the chimney.  Does anyone have any tips to help prevent this?

 

Next steps on my engine building journey are a new Comet chassis for a DJM J94 and an SEF J39 (if I can get hold of one!), then I’m going to take the plunge and try something with bogies, pony trucks and, gulp, outside valve gear!

 

Happy modeling,

 

Matthew

[richard i]

To get round tighter curves you could file back the front faces of the front and back wheels to give the wheels more sideways movement. Even tighter you could juggle the frames behind the front and back wheels or fit narrower spacers all along the chassis to give more side play. You would also want to think about crank pin retaining nuts as there will need to be more slop here too. Ultimately you could have a centre driver which is flangeless. Triang did and the 9f on the real railway. 
however a lot of my answer is: why would you. 600mm is 2ft radius which is what even the rtr folks build their models to go around. Even at 2ft radius on locos with bogies and pony wheels some compromise is normally needed with front steps or drain cocks. Which is why there is a lot of talk of 2’6” or 3’ radius curves on here. 
richard 

[dibateg]

' you could file back the front faces of the front and back wheels'

 

I'm sure you intended to say bearings Richard!

 

The J6 has a surprisingly long wheelbase and I had similar problems with my O gauge model...

 

Regards

Tony

 

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, sdmjsmith said:

Tony et al,

 

I’ve just finished my third loco build!  An LRM J6 representing 64219, the last example withdrawn from Colwick, in 1962.  The only image I found of this loco was at New England in 58 fresh from the paintshop, so my weathering is based on various early 60s images of other J6s. 

 

I managed this one with only one extra set of coupling rods (John Redrup from LRM couldn’t have been more helpful with this), although the ‘sticking’ problem turned out to be a slightly out-of-whack frame alignment.  Once I’d figured out the problem a bit of judicious hand twisting and checking against an engineer’s square seemed to sort it!

 

With a Mashima 1420 motor and a High Level gearbox she starts to slip with 32 mineral wagons on my tight ‘test’ curves  (~550mm radius).  My assumption is that this is close to prototype, and it is certainly as good as anything my heavily weighted eight-coupled RTR engines can manage! 

 

With a curve tighter than 550mm the loco derails (hence, I have set myself a 600mm minimum as ‘acceptable’!) .  Interestingly it is happier going forwards than backwards.  I assume that this is something to do with the assymetrical wheelbase.  Not that I intend to do so with this model, but what modifications would be needed to get around tighter curves?  File back the axle bearings?  Build a new model railway?

 

One (other) thing I really struggle with is getting the smokebox wrappers to lie flush against the boiler tube.  Despite my best efforts to bend the wrapper gently, I keep getting a kink in the wrapper at the point where there is a hole for the chimney.  Does anyone have any tips to help prevent this?

 

Next steps on my engine building journey are a new Comet chassis for a DJM J94 and an SEF J39 (if I can get hold of one!), then I’m going to take the plunge and try something with bogies, pony trucks and, gulp, outside valve gear!

 

Happy modeling,

 

Matthew

What a beautifully-natural loco Matthew,

 

Thanks for showing us. 

 

On the four LRM ex-GN six-coupled locos I've built in OO, I've filed down the outside faces of the bearings almost until they're flush with the frames (otherwise there's no sideplay). 

 

The minimum radius on the GN for Little Bytham is 3' on the main lines and 2' 6" in some of the sidings. On the MR/M&GNR bit it's down to 2', though none of the LRM six-coupled locos operate on there (as yet; I have a J3 to build). 

 

Regarding a crease in the smokebox wrapper around the chimney aperture, how are you rolling it? Without rolling bars, a crease is probably inevitable, because it's the weakest point. 

 

All is not lost, however. Once it's securely soldered in place to the smokebox itself, you'll end up with a slight 'peak', right at the top. Just carefully file this down to the same round profile as the rest. Once the chimney's on, you won't notice. As I can't notice on your model.................

 

Here's my LRM J6, built to represent one of the earlier Ivatt 521 Series......

 

 

 

 

 

Can one have too many J6s for a latter day ER steam depiction? 

 

I have this one, four Nu-Cast/SEF ones and an ancient WSM example. 

 

It's been mentioned on here before, but wouldn't an RTR J6 be feasible? It's certainly a popular loco type, if the number I've built for others is anything to go by. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[dibateg]

Interestingly my J6 will also be 64219! I chose that one also as it was one of the last ones at Colwick.

 

Regards

Tony

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, dibateg said:

Interestingly my J6 will also be 64219! I chose that one also as it was one of the last ones at Colwick.

 

Regards

Tony

Lovely work Tony,

 

What's the kit, please?

 

Or, is it scratch-built?

 

Regards,

 

Tony.