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Whilst I've not brought any part completed or kit built locos over a certain popular auction site, I'd suggest a couple of other motivations:

1) a cost effective way to buy certain parts, for example wheels or motors.  If you pay £100 and get a set of wheels that would otherwise cost £60-70 plus a motor costing £40+, you may be ahead.   This may be particularly true if those motors are no longer in production.  

2) If the kit is long since out of production, it may be the only way of obtaining that prototype absent scratch building.  Even if badly assembled, it may offer a good scope for cannibalisation.  Take the Raven A2.  Limited number of kits produced, go for high prices in unassembled form, if you want one, then why wouldn't you buy a partially assembled kit?

 

David

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31 minutes ago, Clearwater said:

Whilst I've not brought any part completed or kit built locos over a certain popular auction site, I'd suggest a couple of other motivations:

1) a cost effective way to buy certain parts, for example wheels or motors.  If you pay £100 and get a set of wheels that would otherwise cost £60-70 plus a motor costing £40+, you may be ahead.   This may be particularly true if those motors are no longer in production.  

2) If the kit is long since out of production, it may be the only way of obtaining that prototype absent scratch building.  Even if badly assembled, it may offer a good scope for cannibalisation.  Take the Raven A2.  Limited number of kits produced, go for high prices in unassembled form, if you want one, then why wouldn't you buy a partially assembled kit?

 

David

One area where having a glue-assembled loco is actually an advantage. In 24 hours, one can have an unbuilt kit. That's how I got a couple of mine.

 

I'd always assume, unless assured otherwise, that a kit-built loco on an auction site will have been made from whatever came in the box. Pro builders will only "improve" if so requested by the client, though the good ones do try to talk the client into it.

 

Really good/correctly detailed models will generally find new homes without recourse to on-line selling unless an entire collection has been acquired as a job lot. I have an acquaintance who buys dozens of kit-built locos and coaches via auction sites. He has a knack of finding nice items, but they are very much the exception rather than the rule.

 

P&P doesn't just mean Post & Packing. As you have found, it can equally stand for Parts & Projects.

 

John 

 

 

Edited by Dunsignalling
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If you have a view to a strip-down and re-build, a definite risk in buying an assembled kit, if judging the item purely from photographs and the seller's "honest" description, has to be the possibility that the original builder may have filed bits off inappropriately or roughly in order to make things fit (wrongly) and may have also bent or scarred parts beyond redemption, over-enlarged holes etc.

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On 28/01/2021 at 14:51, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Joseph,

 

I assume the question is asked of me?

 

I don't do building commissions any more, so I'm afraid I won't take it on.

 

I know Mike Edge reads this thread (as do other professional builders). Perhaps Mike or one of the others will PM you.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Could someone pass this on to Tony Wright please!

Hi, New to this and not sure how to reach you.

I bought a metal kit of an engine that ran at Round Oak Steel Works in the late 60s. I'm getting nowhere building it and after getting no reply from a local model club i'm stuck.

Seeing your Right Track dvds and then today seeing you show what you'd been doing during lockdown I wondered if you could help and at what cost.

The engine is a Judith Edge Kit of a Yorkshire Engine  DE2 040 diesel, please see pictures.

If i sent the kit to you could you build and paint it ready for a DCC chip, I have a motor, though you would probably know of a better item.

Yes I know what i'm asking you to do, but after paying £50 for a box of bits, It's just sitting there doing nothing.

Parts of the main body, chassis and cab have been soldered together, I just cant work out what part is what and don't have the skill to do anything else.

The pictures are of the kit built by Judith Edge, I only built part of the chassis sub frame, second picture is it finished and 3rd is real engine at R O Steel works 

Please give me some idea of the cost.

Kindest regards

Joseph Marsh56@gmail.com

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Thanks for your reply, If I can't get someone to build it then it will stay in the box, my hands wont keep still long enough to solder the parts if I could find out where they go.

I know some one that could paint if for me but they don't have the skill to put it together, "Thats how far they got" really just part of the chassis.

If anyone would like to contact me, I did include my email address in the last message, I usually can't find replys like this as I don't know where or when to look, Just luck I found this.

Thanks for your help.

Regards Joseph Marsh

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Hi Tony ,

Regarding  ‘ Professionally built ‘ how many real professionals are or were out there ? compared to people like myself who had a day job but made a few kits for friends etc.

A friend of mine who couldn’t build anything , started buying a lot of locos from a certain stall usually at York , every one of these locos ended up with either me or my brother having to put right various shorting problems, I came to the conclusion who ever made them obvious did not test run them round any track circuit.

 

I have bought three locos of eBay ready made , a nu-cast B1 £20 , and DJH  82xxx plus WD for £70 for the two ! I have just completed the 82xxx on which I’ve replaced a D13motor with a high level gearbox with a mashima motor, added all the pipe work that was missing , so I have now a good looking loco which has cost me £50 !

The WD is going to get the Doncaster boiler , next job !  however it is becoming rare  to find these bargain prices on eBay anymore.

Dennis

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Does anyone have stories from both 'extremes', please (especially pictures)? Delighted or disappointed, it's all of interest.

 

I have bought one or two part-built kits over the years, normally as part of a job lot but not appropriate to my areas of interest so didn't intend keeping them anyway.  I remember a white metal A2 which wasn't built straight in any direction, but could probably have been salvaged although you'd have had to take the paint off first.  I can understand building metal kits being a skill it takes time to acquire, but painting isn't difficult, it just takes patience (which is why my childhood efforts were so poor).  It's just sad to see complex kits, where the builder has done all the really difficult work, apply what looks like a rushed paintjob.  There is no substitute for taking your time, not seemingly using paint that hasn't been stirred properly and applied with a 1" brush.  You don't have to be able to spray or own an airbrush (I have one but have never used it), even Halfords rattle cans give a good base for the final colour.  A bit of practice on a cheap wagon and you don't risk the expensive loco.  

 

The most important technique that I learned with brush painting is to put on a thin coat, let it dry properly (at least 24 hours), then repeat with another thin coat.  This is after you have stirred, stirred and stirred the paint, maybe thinning it down a little.  You can always add another coat, but it's hard to take some away in my experience. 

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I have bought 3 locos in part built / built condition with varying success

 

Bad: was a Mitchell 43xx that had been built in P4 but was sold without wheels or motor (these were packaged in a separate lot.)  This should have been a red flag from the start, and after a while failing to get it to run in P4 it went in the stock box.  Eventually I tried rebuilding the chassis in OO, along with stripping various parts off the body to correct errors the builder had made).  I made a couple of errors in the chassis myself (it only runs upside down as a bind somewhere stops it working when the correct way up) so it still isn’t working.  It is at least nicely painted now, with various crooked bits removed and straightened out. I still need to build a new sub chassis for the tender (the original of which is still P4).  With this one I would say it is a loss, I paid about £20-30 less than a new kit would have been at the time and now I wish I had just bought the kit and started from scratch.  That said at the time I bought it having never rolled a boiler it would probably not have been finished until 2019 when I finally got on and learned how to roll one.

 

Good: My Bird, first off it was a bargain off Facebook Marketplace and had been sold with really poor photos.  I knew it had a brass chassis and thought it looked like a brass body, but couldn’t be certain it wasn’t a K’s white metal job.  At the price I figured worst case I get a set of Romfords and a cast Bulldog boiler that I could use on a Bachmann Dukedog conversion.  Once the awful paint had been stripped off it revealed  a very finely made brass model which I believe was scratch built based on the construction style and shape of the hidden side of some parts.  I went shopping for as many detailing bits as I could find to bring it up to current standards, and have a loco now that I am very happy with.

 

Somewhere in between: finally there is my A4, another eBay buy at a pretty good price.  The kit included a full set of Markits wheels, an unstarted chassis and a part built chassis, and a body which was badly finished in BR Green.  Given what I paid for the kit was less than the price of the wheels and chassis so I thought I was starting from a good place (and again was under no expectation of quality in the build).  Unfortunately the body was very badly made, part solder and part glue with some parts in the wrong place.  While trying to remove the backhead (which was in the completely wrong position) I snapped a side (which I am still not happy with my repair).  The front end also has some damage which I have tried fixing but until its painted I am unsure if I am going to be happy with the result.   The chassis is missing the slidebar / crosshead parts, and I still haven’t gotten round to trying to source spares from SEF (the recent Squires purchase of the range hopefully wont prevent this).  The tender is also a complete car crash, having had a big portion of the side overhang filed off when building (thankfully the modifications to the loco exchange tender should hide this).   Net result, assuming that I can still source the missing parts for the chassis from Squires, I think the end game will be buying another Wills body only kit form eBay and starting again.  At least with the wheels amounting to most of the value I paid they are still good when I do eventually start again.

 

The final kit built purchase was a Bachmann / Comet Hall (again via ebay), however in this case I thought I recognised the photo from this thread as being from the Comet estate and had previously had a check up from Mr Wright.  Needless to say it runs exceptionally well, the body has been rebranded to G crest W from the Great Western original (and will eventually be getting resprayed to G crest W black having confirmed the livery is wrong for the identity I gave it.

 

Going forward I do end up watching quite a few kit built locos on ebay, but I havent followed through to purchase.  I am very much taking the view that a purchase of a part built / built kit needs to be close to the value of the motor / wheels / gearbox to be a viable purchase (or needs to either be sold or built by someone I know).

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40 minutes ago, D.Platt said:

Hi Tony ,

Regarding  ‘ Professionally built ‘ how many real professionals are or were out there ? compared to people like myself who had a day job but made a few kits for friends etc.

A friend of mine who couldn’t build anything , started buying a lot of locos from a certain stall usually at York , every one of these locos ended up with either me or my brother having to put right various shorting problems, I came to the conclusion who ever made them obvious did not test run them round any track circuit.

 

I have bought three locos of eBay ready made , a nu-cast B1 £20 , and DJH  82xxx plus WD for £70 for the two ! I have just completed the 82xxx on which I’ve replaced a D13motor with a high level gearbox with a mashima motor, added all the pipe work that was missing , so I have now a good looking loco which has cost me £50 !

The WD is going to get the Doncaster boiler , next job !  however it is becoming rare  to find these bargain prices on eBay anymore.

Dennis

Good afternoon Dennis,

 

Though open to debate, I'd say a 'professional' model-maker/painter is one where that is his/her principal source of income. They might have 'another job' (part-time, perhaps), but most of their 'work' time is spent in making/painting things. The best (not me) are proficient in both disciplines, though there are far more decent builders out there than there are decent painters. The best painters paint for the best builders. I've yet to find a guy/girl who can paint brilliantly, but who cannot build a model. The very best can do both! 

 

Relating my own case, my main job for over 20 years was as a teacher. However, personal illness cut that career short (though I did return part-time for a couple more years). Not wanting to be a 'parasite' (I've chosen that word carefully) on the state, on my recovery I looked for alternative means of employment; luckily finding it in model-making, writing and photography. Lucky enough to make these things my 'profession' when the top model railway photographer at the time (Brian Monaghan) retired, and at least two new model railway magazines emerged. Those, and a growing number of folk who wanted a loco built by me. 

 

To begin with, I still taught part-time (the equivalent of two days a week), but that soon interfered with my growing 'business', so I gave teaching up for good. At least I remained sane, which another 15 or more years in teaching would have produced the complete opposite! What cannot be denied is that I earned far more as a teacher (danger money?) than by any other later means. 

 

Eventually, I ended up as assistant editor/photographer for BRM, which I did (with great enjoyment) from 2003 until my retirement in 2011, aged 65. I still write, of course, still take pictures and still make models; the last mentioned, now only for myself and for mates. 

 

It would seem that many (most?) who make/made model-making/painting their career, started off doing something else.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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I tend not to buy completed locos over the internet, but I'm happy to buy part-built kits as a stating point, especially if they come with useful stuff like wheels.

 

Now and then I'll chance a finished model, such as this DJH Duchess:

 

duchess.jpg

 

I bought it on the basis of photos, which I thought suggested a high quality of build, but I collected it in person as it turned out the seller only lived a few miles down the road. I was very happy with it. I made a few small tweaks to the bogie and rear truck to help with curves, but other than that it needed no work at all. The lining is a bit heavy but I could see that in the photos so it wasn't a problem for me.

 

Duchesses dont exactly fit in with my GWR/SR/S&D interests but they're my favorite class of big loco so I'm afraid temptation won the day. I've still got another DJH one to build for myself!

 

Al

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Re the discussions about "Blue Peter" & "Bittern" I hope these photos may be of interest .

  The shots at the side of the diesel depot were taken on7th Sept. 1968 . The engines had been moved there to allow passengers on a "Flying Scotsman" hauled railtour to Newcastle to see them as they passed .

  The shot in the shed was taken later in the month occupying their usual stalls .

                      Cheers ,

                              Ray .

P1010501a.jpg

P1010502b.jpg

P1010503a.jpg

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1 hour ago, josephmarsh said:

Thanks for your reply, If I can't get someone to build it then it will stay in the box, my hands wont keep still long enough to solder the parts if I could find out where they go.

I know some one that could paint if for me but they don't have the skill to put it together, "Thats how far they got" really just part of the chassis.

If anyone would like to contact me, I did include my email address in the last message, I usually can't find replys like this as I don't know where or when to look, Just luck I found this.

Thanks for your help.

Regards Joseph Marsh

 

Joseph,

You'll find any replies in the same thread where you placed your question. It's really is no more complex or mysterious than that.

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7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Does anyone have stories from both 'extremes', please (especially pictures)? Delighted or disappointed, it's all of interest.

 

 

A cautionary tale!

 

Loco building has never been my forte, although more recently, and following some expert tuition from Tony, I have managed to put together a small number - and they work well, but it remains one of my least favourite activities across the whole spectrum of railway modelling.

So it was that back in days when there were very few RTR Southern Railway locos available, and I was 'time poor and (relatively) cash rich' I started to look for a kit builder or builders to help assemble a growing collection of SR kits.

I tried three different builders, all of whom advertised in RM and appeared to me therefore to be 'professional', they all had reasonably long waiting lists but I went ahead and offered them each a different kit to build; they gave me their prices and I sent them the kits.

 

The first thing to say is that none of the three resulting models was perfect, and in particular my inexperience meant that I didn't ask any of the builders to go beyond what was in the kit - and none did. At the time, 20 years ago, my own inexperience also meant that I didn't know what else I might need to specify - lamp irons for example - nor was my own knowledge sufficient to specify detailed changes required for a specific loco in a specific class, and so I largely got whatever was in the kit (at best!).

 

And so to the outcomes....

One loco looked good, including a detailed lined livery, and it ran well; the builder has since built a large number of locos for me.

The second loco ran well but despite having a plain black livery I don't feel it ever quite looked right because it lacked so many detailed fittings - but I probably just about got what I paid for. However, I have never gone back, and when a RTR model of the same loco appeared subsequently it just served to re-enforce how poor the kit built specimen was.

 

The third loco was dreadful:

 

SJPP716002002180716.jpg.8460728f80a9fe10aa1a155a8ff71436.jpg

 

It is an SR ex-LSWR Adams T6 from a Jidenco kit and what you can immediately see is just how bad the lining is.

More to the point, however, is that various parts were not straight, the loco had no weight in it, the central driving wheels were the only ones with pick-ups and they didn't touch the track because the front bogie was set too high, and so on.... Needless to say it would not pull anything, in fact it struggled to move itself along the track!

I appreciate that Jidenco kits are not the easiest, but as a 'professional' the builder accepted the commission and at no time did he say that he would build it badly!

We had some acerbic exchanges after delivery, but I had foolishly paid my money when told the model was ready and I eventually gave up any hope of getting it fixed or getting my money back.

 

The loco stayed in the drawer as a reminder of my own inexperience, until about two years ago when I mentioned it on my own RMWeb thread, and said that I was thinking of flattening it with a sledge hammer; to my surprise, excellent & experienced loco builder @DLT kindly offered to see what he could do with it - and he has posted what he then had to do on his thread, which went way beyond the short list of faults that I showed above.

 

So after 20 years, I now have a working T6 ! :o

 

My feeling is that I learned a number of valuable lessons from the original experience, not least that 'professional' may not mean very much! I'd go along with Tony's list completely, but I might also add that if you are not an experienced and informed buyer, then tread very carefully; a builder who can tell you what they might do to enhance the kit and / or how they might adjust it to deliver an accurate model of your specific requirement would also be highly desirable - and if you can find one, they will not be cheap!

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

A cautionary tale!

 

Loco building has never been my forte, although more recently, and following some expert tuition from Tony, I have managed to put together a small number - and they work well, but it remains one of my least favourite activities across the whole spectrum of railway modelling.

So it was that back in days when there were very few RTR Southern Railway locos available, and I was 'time poor and (relatively) cash rich' I started to look for a kit builder or builders to help assemble a growing collection of SR kits.

I tried three different builders, all of whom advertised in RM and appeared to me therefore to be 'professional', they all had reasonably long waiting lists but I went ahead and offered them each a different kit to build; they gave me their prices and I sent them the kits.

 

The first thing to say is that none of the three resulting models was perfect, and in particular my inexperience meant that I didn't ask any of the builders to go beyond what was in the kit - and none did. At the time, 20 years ago, my own inexperience also meant that I didn't know what else I might need to specify - lamp irons for example - nor was my own knowledge sufficient to specify detailed changes required for a specific loco in a specific class, and so I largely got whatever was in the kit (at best!).

 

And so to the outcomes....

One loco looked good, including a detailed lined livery, and it ran well; the builder has since built a large number of locos for me.

The second loco ran well but despite having a plain black livery I don't feel it ever quite looked right because it lacked so many detailed fittings - but I probably just about got what I paid for. However, I have never gone back, and when a RTR model of the same loco appeared subsequently it just served to re-enforce how poor the kit built specimen was.

 

The third loco was dreadful:

 

SJPP716002002180716.jpg.8460728f80a9fe10aa1a155a8ff71436.jpg

 

It is an SR ex-LSWR Adams T6 from a Jidenco kit and what you can immediately see is just how bad the lining is.

More to the point, however, is that various parts were not straight, the loco had no weight in it, the central driving wheels were the only ones with pick-ups and they didn't touch the track because the front bogie was set too high, and so on.... Needless to say it would not pull anything, in fact it struggled to move itself along the track!

I appreciate that Jidenco kits are not the easiest, but as a 'professional' the builder accepted the commission and at no time did he say that he would build it badly!

We had some acerbic exchanges after delivery, but I had foolishly paid my money when told the model was ready and I eventually gave up any hope of getting it fixed or getting my money back.

 

The loco stayed in the drawer as a reminder of my own inexperience, until about two years ago when I mentioned it on my own RMWeb thread, and said that I was thinking of flattening it with a sledge hammer; to my surprise, excellent & experienced loco builder @DLT kindly offered to see what he could do with it - and he has posted what he then had to do on his thread, which went way beyond the short list of faults that I showed above.

 

So after 20 years, I now have a working T6 ! :o

 

My feeling is that I learned a number of valuable lessons from the original experience, not least that 'professional' may not mean very much! I'd go along with Tony's list completely, but I might also add that if you are not an experienced and informed buyer, then tread very carefully; a builder who can tell you what they might do to enhance the kit and / or how they might adjust it to deliver an accurate model of your specific requirement would also be highly desirable - and if you can find one, they will not be cheap!

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

A cautionary tale indeed, at least in part. I'm delighted you've got the loco (eventually) you wanted.

 

And, you wanted an H16, which I was delighted to build for you....................

 

679515899_H1617.jpg.4b705fd14bb712e7b69f2ccca3b768c3.jpg

 

2130812627_H1618.jpg.f5f64c5674f2cd557deef8b2eaa5381a.jpg

 

 

 

1230487926_H1620.jpg.276de563f7fe332fdff60f64f49e4e63.jpg

 

Which Geoff Haynes painted/weathered for you. 

 

But, here we have another 'cautionary' tale. How 'accurate' should (or could) models be?

 

A distinctive feature of many Southern locos are the huge front steps. Without them, the locos look naked at the front. However, as you have found, put them on and locos won't go around sharper curves without shorting or fouling as the bogie or pony wheels catch on them. 

 

When I built this loco, I tested it fully on Little Bytham and it ran round with no problems (minimum radius 3'). 

 

I'm still puzzled as to how to solve his problem for you (you've been very kind and not pestered me). Quite honestly, I don't know what to do, save taking the steps off. As it is, I've angled them slightly and shaved them as thin as I dare (for white metal). Their inner faces are also smeared with Araldite. 

 

Could brass steps be the answer? It might be, and, when allowed, bring it with you when you next visit and I'll make and fit some.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Bittern at York shed 27 July 1968, BTEG (British Transport Enthusiasts Guild) West Riding Shed bash.

 

Am I right in stating that all these steam locos are preserved ?

 

Brit15

Great pix! (modern history)

 

Yep - all preserved. Black 5 5428 at NYMR; K1 62005 a regular at Fort William for the Jacobite; K4 3442 (61994) no longer a runner, destined for John Cameron's Scottish museum with No.9. N7 out of service at North Norfolk (I think)

 

1968 was of course the 'dark time' for mainline steam, pending the 'return to steam' in 1971 so many locos were stored around the country like this, not many preserved lines running, one or two steam centres. Many of today's steam fleet still in Barry Scrapyard ...

 

All very different nowadays! (Covid notwithstanding)

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56 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

A distinctive feature of many Southern locos are the huge front steps. Without them, the locos look naked at the front. However, as you have found, put them on and locos won't go around sharper curves without shorting or fouling as the bogie or pony wheels catch on them. 

 

 

 

 

Saint Olaves (below) is restricted to my outer curves because of the steps (and even then, they're not modelled as they should be, with the characteristic tuck-in). But to omit the front steps spoils the look of the engine, I feel, so I accept the compromise.

 

schools.jpg

 

I've managed to fit front steps to Lord Nelsons, King Arthurs and S15s and get them to squeak around the inner curve as well, but Schools seem to be a particularly challenging case.

 

Al

Edited by Barry Ten
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Tony and other experienced builders,

 

A couple of quick questions if I may about a Comet coach kit that I’m torturing my fingers with.  Firstly, having fixed the drop lights, solder has leaked through to the visible side.  Should I remove this before painting?  If so, what’s the best method.  Secondly, the Comet guide to coach building describes removing the “rebate”on the roof at each corner.  What do they mean by that?  Is it the bottom bit of the rail that will ultimately sit on the top of the sides?  

The sides and ends seem straight enough to me and it’s solid enough.  Nothing has fallen off when I’ve washed it although I’m sure my soldering can improve.

 

I also seem to recall a debate about how to fix roofs.  Comet suggest glueing.  Is there a better plan for aluminium?

 

Many thanks

 

David


ADA0A11E-9F74-482E-A605-F2DF276FC2A6.jpeg.ccded44af646f09392387e0d234cf6cc.jpeg

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

1230487926_H1620.jpg.276de563f7fe332fdff60f64f49e4e63.jpg

 

Could brass steps be the answer? It might be, and, when allowed, bring it with you when you next visit and I'll make and fit some.

 

 

I had no intention of bringing that one up Tony, at least in part because I think it relates to what was probably my worst decision in setting up my layout - which was to make the curves too tight! Whilst they are all hidden and so they don't upset the eye, the H16 is not the only loco that I have that struggles with them, and several have had their steps removed or omitted.

 

I know that you remain keen to solve the issue and once we are allowed to meet, I'll be very happy to accept your kind offer.

 

Tony

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I built professionally for 5 years after being made redundant from a job I'd been in 20 years. I soon found that I had a waiting list of at least a year. I was charging £20 per hour at the time. I didn't take a deposit, but asked for stage payments, which worked well for me and my clients. My philosophy was that I would build for my clients as if I were building for myself, that is I didn't build kits straight from the box, they would be improved as much as possible. So they were not cheap. If there are any problems ( rarely ! ) they come back to me for repair, I don't like other people fiddling with them!

I was lucky- I had lovely clients - all of which became friends, there were just a couple I didn't get on with - they were ditched.... I enjoyed the work, but I'm happy now to have the opportunity to work on my own projects.

I was challenged once over the price of an O gauge Crostie 9F build, my response was to say ' how much would you expect for five weeks work?' "Ah... yes..."

 

Completing part builds..... best avoided in my experience, although a couple of my mates seems to thrive on them!

 

Regards

Tony

 

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening David,

 

I certainly agree that (if the price is right) buying a 'finished' model for its wheels/motor/gearbox is a very good idea. Even if the bodywork is rubbish, as long as the mechanical parts are working and undamaged. then the body can be chucked or broken up for spares. 

 

The problem with buying 'partially assembled or 'badly-assembled' locos is if the parts have been damaged or broken in the process (as Graeme King has alluded to). As long as this is not the case, a night's soaking in Nitromores and you'll end up with a kit again (all the worst kit-built locos are glued together!). However, if there are gross file marks causing surface damage and the ill-fitting of parts, then only regard such a purchase for its mechanical parts. I've even seen sheet metal locos glued together, and the worst problem usually faced with their like is bruised brass/nickel silver parts - impossible to eradicate in many cases. 

 

As Andy (The Green Howards) has suggested, if one is capable of rebuilding a poorly-made kit, then there are some real opportunities out there (though I have no idea how eBay works; nor really want to). I have, however, picked up some real bargains at shows............

 

Though some of these have been seen before, it was in a different context.

 

749966190_60103elevated.jpg.b984649c75d6f8e2026740f422fb351a.jpg

 

Years ago, friends and I used to attend the Gloucester swapmeet (at the time, the largest in the land). One dealt in second-hand items (but always took more things home with him than he brought, filling my car's boot!), another just liked the company and I sold second-hand items, usually donated by parents/grandparents for the school fund at the establishment where I was teaching.

 

On one occasion, we were alongside a guy who had a Wills A3 for sale. It was part-built (not very well glued together), but no damage had been done to the castings. I'd brought a Hornby-Dublo box (just a cardboard, red, striped thing) which had once contained a cement wagon. The box was in perfect condition. I had no idea what to price this piece of old card at, but I asked the bloke how much he wanted for the Wills A3. 'Not my thing' he said (the rest of his stand was full of die-cast or tinplate tat). 'How much for the box?' he asked me. 'Not my thing. Do you fancy a swap?' I replied. He almost bit my hand off! To this day I'm convinced both of us thought the other a complete fool.

 

What did I subsequently do?  A dunk in Nitromores, scratch-build a chassis, purchase wheels/motor and rebuild it; into what you see above. I even painted it myself! 

 

1069999499_09A160119.jpg.21ee0f6b5e97cf76290b4826286d42fa.jpg

 

A few years ago, acting on behalf of a widow, I found new homes for the kit-built locos her late husband had built. He'd started the A1 seen above, but it didn't run very well. What he'd made was generally very good (soldered construction), but, like many kit-built items, the running was jerky and stiff. 

 

I'd inspected all the other locos which had been completed, made sure they ran well and got very good prices for them. But, what to do with this? In the end, I offered what I thought was a fair price (which she was overjoyed at), stripped down the frames, installed a new motor/gearbox and completed it. Geoff Haynes then painted it. I think I've ended up with a good-looking model which now runs exceptionally well, though I think I'll replace the bogie wheels, if not the drivers. 

 

613437395_ModelLocoBlackFive05.jpg.97ab7229ed0318000d23af4a7eabae04.jpg

 

163745343_ModelLocoBlackFive07.jpg.ba232818d05b2073cf3696e847f8a3bf.jpg

 

In 2019, I bought this Model Loco Stanier Five from a trader at a show. The building of it was atrocious, and, although it had a Portescap motor, the running was dismal. Fortunately, despite the dreadful building, none of the parts was damaged (though some bits of the tender were missing).

 

So, the price offered was accepted (around £60.00 if I recall) with relish.

 

A few months later, dunk the body in Nitromores, strip down the frames (inserting the Portescap into something bigger), replace the driving and bogie wheels (though perfectly all right, the originals were generic) and pick-up a Bachmann tender at the same show, second-hand for £12.00. Then, a complete rebuild (with a DJH motor/gearbox). Geoff Haynes is currently painting it. 

 

The loco was of little use to the trader (he had heaps of RTR items in many states of repair - or lack of it), so he was glad to get shut of it. But, it could have really only gone to someone who could rebuild it, make it work and 'exploit' its potential. 

 

For those who can't do this, avoid such items like the plague!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

  


Tony,

 

Buying a kit built locomotive built by someone else is always risky and can involve more work than starting a new kit from scratch. However it can be a much cheaper way of buying all the parts that make up a locomotive kit.

8C93E5E5-B2E6-4B08-9E2B-0047CAE49533.jpeg.34bae28de79cc8fa77c98bf87ad71687.jpegAs you know I’ve been building locos for Retford and as an example here’s a locomotive I’ve just bought. This is an A3 built by an unknown builder from a DJH kit. It cost less than £100 on eBay. It is of course built in OO so at the very least I’ll have to convert it to EM.


It does, unusually, run very well as it has a Portescape motor and is very free running.  However it has a double chimney which it would not have had in 1957 so that will be changed but the biggest problem is that whilst it doesn’t look too bad the lining is not good enough and so it will have to have a complete repaint. I don’t know if it’s glued or soldered together so if I do strip the paint and it’s been glued together it might all fall apart and I end up with kit.

 

I think I’ll do the EM conversion first, 

get it to run properly, test it on Retford and then address the issue of the lining.


Sandra

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1 hour ago, Clearwater said:

removing the “rebate”on the roof at each corner.  What do they mean by that?  Is it the bottom bit of the rail that will ultimately sit on the top of the sides?  

On the roof there is a rib running along the length on the underside which sits against the coach side (both keeping the sides the right distance apart and giving a surface to glue on.

 

This needs filing off at the ends as it will foul the etched end and prevent you getting the roof on properly.

 

let me know if you would like a photo showing exactly what I mean as I have a roof  suitably modified sat on my workbench at the moment and can take a photo in the morning 

 

as for fixing, I use Evostick which seems to have done the job nicely so far.

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