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5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Dylan,

 

You (and Steve at 31A) seem to models with assembly problems. 

 

Though I have no way of advising you on how to fix them, I'd be inclined to return them if the problem cannot be sorted out (you run the risk of breakage).

 

As is known, I had a pre-production sample to assess just prior to Christmas.................

 

1311662233_HornbyA226050501.jpg.e98961030723251de497224383fbb15a.jpg

 

308913457_HornbyA226050502.jpg.d5e5abbea745fd86f87681faecd8a191.jpg

 

Now, Hornby wasn't going to send me a model with assembly problems, and the bits fit on this one. 

 

It's the first time I've become aware of any issues, but it seems you are not alone. 

 

As has been discussed, the BR green comes to life with weathering. 

 

I still think these are brilliant models (and, no, I haven't been given one)......................

 

As good as anything I could do............

 

 

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

As good as anything I could do............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tony

I am sure that you would fit the water scoop the right way round.

Bernard

 

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2 hours ago, Clearwater said:

 

My sons, particularly the 5 year old, are fans of Sam's Trains.  I strongly suspect my 5 year old is less discerning than you but my five year old can confidently identify different A4s just by their number.... I find, like you, that his knowledge isn't great but he is enthusiastic.  His IT skills are very good at editing/animating trains and he also does stuff on Train Simulator (you can find videos on that by him and a guy called "Lazerjet").  Some of what's put together in Train Simulator is remarkably good.  For example, there's a guy who posts on the Great Western Modelling group on facebook who's using the software to develop broad gauge models.  I get the sense the person has done railway modelling before. 

 

What surprises me about Sam is that he doesn't  seem to do much basic research about his model before making his video.   However, if he helps sell a few extra models, if of those who purchase a small percentage graduate from train set operators to more accomplished modellers, then great.  I think the shops, manufacturers recognise the potential value of this marketing channel and do provide samples to some of these people, in other spheres, eg fashion, you might call them "influencers."   However, the power and reach of youtube is quite telling when you consider how many people on this thread have used your rightrack video, available on youtube, as a guide to assembling models.

 

David

Good evening David,

 

I strongly suspect that many of Sam's followers are five year olds, and probably not as bright as your son. 

 

I've no doubt that Youtube is popular and there are many followers of it, but that doesn't necessarily make it a 'good' thing all round. I admit to watching all of Sam's piece on the Hornby A2/2 (though I squirmed throughout it), but if anyone he 'influences' starts to believe that it's good practice to lay track very badly, on the floor, then perish the thought for their future development. Which responsible reviewer would assess a scale model's performance by running it over track laid on the floor? Fine, if it's a kid's clockwork or push-along train set (that's what they're designed for), but not this. I was staggered! 

 

Thanks for mentioning the Right Track DVDs (I'd like to think they were better-made and far more responsible than Sam's efforts), but the irony is they should not be on Youtube. Whoever put them on, acted illegal by infringing Activity Media's copyright. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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2 hours ago, rowanj said:

I very rarely buy RTR locos these days , but couldn't resist the A2/2. 60501 is one of only a few locos I really recall seeing when I was a spotter, as it stood just behind us at Gateshead East Station for a good 20 minutes waiting to go on shed. It had come off at Central, presumably from York, and headed across the High Level bridge, where it was held waiting a path into 52A. I thought it was superb, as a 13 y.o knowing nothing about Gresley/Thompson wars.

My model had none of the faults others have described, though a tender door and cab roof had become dislodged. Running is excellent. the BRM Hornby thread on the loco has a plethora of observations,

 

Sam's Trains is targeted, it seems to me, at a completely different audience than Wright Writers, and more power to him for trying.  I watched his A2/2 review while I was waiting for mine to be delivered, and would like to think I was intelligent enough to pick out the useful stuff and ignore most of the "toy train" stuff and gripes about metal footplates, etc. The bits on how the loco runs were useful.

 

Incidentally, when I read Tony's post, it touched a memory, which an admittedly only quick Google search  has confirmed., A ventilator is a  mechanical machine to assist breathing, A vent, which isn't shorthand for "ventilator" , is a small opening that allows air, smoke, or gas to enter or leave a closed space. So Sam, whether he knew it or not, was nearer the mark than Tony.

IMG_20210211_150556.jpg

 

 

Thanks John,

 

Though you're quite right about 'vent', my OED describes 'ventilator' (in part) as 'an appliance for ventilating a room'. Couldn't a steam loco's cab be called a room of sorts?

 

Nearer than 'air intakes', I think.....................

 

I'm glad you're pleased with your Hornby A2/2. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

 

 

Can be seen here, Tony ...

 

Only too well aware, Tony - thanks! Should be good fun when I get round to it though.

 

Re building things for others (for money), I think it's ideally suited to semi-retirement when the need to earn every last shekel is not as paramount as it once was.

 

My take on it is that someone is paying me to do what I enjoy doing - making things! So I don't worry too much about hour count and pound per hour; I don't tend to build very fast anyway - I prefer to take my time to get it as 'right' as I can. I charge what I perceive to be a reasonable going market rate for the finished item. I could probably charge more ... but with higher cost comes higher expectation.

 

Possibly (probably?) makes me 'busy fool'. I prefer to think of it as a 'happy fool'. I've been called worse ...

Good evening Graham,

 

How good to see Allan's lovely buildings put to good use. 

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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3 hours ago, john new said:

 

Although that looks exaggerated isn't a bit of cab droop prototypical for those?

 

[Update: having checked a recent set of images recently published in BackTrack probably a false memory]

 

I don't think you have a false memory, John,

 

Cab droop was common on ex-LNER locos. 

 

Out of interest, it might be amusing to draw in the lines from several horizontal handrails/cab roof edges/tender tops/horizontal lining to their vanishing points in these images..............

 

1883169132_A2260503hightender.jpg.4b4549df644b6165ab7545fddf0ca20a.jpg

 

881781793_A460015leaningcab.jpg.af037ea439dc5e105d2e858fdf34f6b0.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

178360285_leaningcab04.jpg.cf0bce1178e88bad24cc90032616dd81.jpg

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Having a think about some of my pictures, scanned a few years ago from negs taken many, many years ago, stored in envelopes without notes. A couple of questions

 

Was Bittern here in York or Neville Hill shed ? Negs dated 8 June 1968.

 

2013-01-09-20-35-21.jpg.e33fdd3684e7280f4a5cbe03fd38ae76.jpg

 

I ask because these shots were in the same envelope, Holbeck with locos in steam, can't be 1968, probably 1967, Hardy & Sturdee were in Holbeck also. Not the above BTEG coach trip as we visited Leeds by train for the pix below.

 

2013-01-09-20-44-17.jpg.c73304da852ad7873027e2d2de7fa844.jpg

 

2013-01-09-20-41-42.jpg.481ab532de9ae188e98b6bab8958788b.jpg

 

2013-01-09-20-43-34.jpg.4dda9f9666231ed453cd1cbb00c6c3be.jpg

 

On 26 October 1968 we visited Doncaster. Wigan - Man Vic, Piccadilly to Sheffield Vic over Woodhead (E26056 out, E26051 return) and a bug box (DMU) to Doncaster. We just visited Doncaster shed that day. Deltic hunting but we saw these wonderful locos on Doncaster Shed, where I think Blue Peter was undergoing repaint.

 

Am I correct or have I got my negs mixed up, our next trip was 1 December 1968 to Crewe works. Perhaps the last shot I took on the Doncaster trip was Flying Scotsman, and the first at Crewe was Blue peter being repainted ? (or was she repainted at York / Neville Hill) - Long time ago !!

 

2013-01-10-14-26-19.jpg.55168ce0d5a4686223128278d1008b8a.jpg

 

2013-01-10-14-27-37.jpg.cacb175a72df165c7d9d976e3410f635.jpg

 

2013-01-10-14-28-07.jpg.cae740c610570ea9922ce49b3e6c04ec.jpg

 

Anyway, a couple of shots at Doncaster may be of interest.

 

2013-01-10-14-08-58.jpg.36c1af00a6c58ba2dc03fc7600cb1e78.jpg

 

2013-01-10-14-11-19.jpg.ee958b0f7734d2148370a36b507007c0.jpg

 

Flying Scotsman's spare boiler ?

 

2013-01-10-14-10-54.jpg.98ccaf283ed2455169670e7b6da9133e.jpg

 

The reason for our visit that day.

2013-01-10-14-12-59.jpg.8e1b438e0a9ffd9c88bd53297fff6cdd.jpg

 

2013-01-10-14-09-16.jpg.312cdfb64791e7864b6337143d782de3.jpg

 

Brit15

'Flying Scotsman's spare boiler ?'

 

And an A4 one at that..............................

 

Wonderful images!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've just come across something by accident on Youtube where someone called Sam assesses the latest Hornby A2/2.

 

He's young and enthusiastic, but he tests the products on badly-laid trackwork on the floor! I gave up running trains on the carpet when I was still in short pants. 

 

There are some assembly issues with his 60501, but I'm glad he found the performance 'exceptional'. 

 

Where I winced in disbelief was how he described the cab roof roof ventilators (which, as you know, slide) as (if I've heard correctly) 'air-intakes'! 

 

Does anyone know anything about this bloke? He admits his knowledge of the prototype is limited, but surely shouldn't someone presenting (potentially-damaging) assessments have done some homework?

 

He also compares the paint finish with a Bachmann A2 (which I think has much too-prominent lining in comparison), praising it as much better, but then zooms in on a section of the boiler where a handrail pillar is missing! 

 

Is this the way forward now with reviews? Where anyone who buys a model can tell the whole world (and expose their ignorance from time to time as well)? I know from personal experience, having reviewed hundreds of items down the years, that prior research is essential, and there's a huge responsibility to make as 'value' a judgment  as possible. 

 

He paid £171.00 (Hattons, I think) and considered that to be a lot of money. It's a good job he wasn't around when a Hornby-Dublo three-rail BARNSTAPLE cost £5 19s 6d! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Yes, sadly, this is the way now Tony. I’m afraid anyone who can use a computer can say anything they like about anything else irrespective of whether they have any knowledge of the subject matter or not. Very sad.

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15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I've just come across something by accident on Youtube where someone called Sam assesses the latest Hornby A2/2.

 

Does anyone know anything about this bloke?

 

If you are interested Tony, there is a thread here talking about Sam's Trains.  Unsurprisingly it got locked due to a number of rather disparaging and unnecessary comments about the lad...

 

 

Like him or not, he has far more subscribers than any of the more serious UK railway modellers that I've seen have.

 

John

 

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19 minutes ago, Roger Sunderland said:

Yes, sadly, this is the way now Tony. I’m afraid anyone who can use a computer can say anything they like about anything else irrespective of whether they have any knowledge of the subject matter or not. Very sad.


brings to mind an Abraham Lincoln quote: “better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.”  

 

As an aside, 9 year old Edward has commented to me that he doesn’t think laying track on carpet is a good idea so there is hope!

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I will paste my response in the aforementioned thread onto here as while I do have some issues with Sam's Trains I also watch his channel a fair bit:

 

I do have my reservations about Sam's Trains (he should at least put his railway on boards on the floor and not directly on the carpet, and I'm also not entirely sure his reviews of Hatton's products are unbiased as he apparently acknowledges that he has some sort of arrangement with them, plus the El Cheapo 'character' he sometimes plays is... erm... questionable at best), and yeah there's the perennial issue that people on YT do tend to go down the clickbait route chasing subscribers, but his reviews are pretty thorough and do go into a lot of detail, plus they're quite good to just put on for half an hour or so to unwind to.

 

I don't just use him for recommendations of particular models either, I tend to gather a wide range of reviews and opinions before purchasing, so his reviews are just a part of that.

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening David,

 

I strongly suspect that many of Sam's followers are five year olds, and probably not as bright as your son. 

 

I've no doubt that Youtube is popular and there are many followers of it, but that doesn't necessarily make it a 'good' thing all round. I admit to watching all of Sam's piece on the Hornby A2/2 (though I squirmed throughout it), but if anyone he 'influences' starts to believe that it's good practice to lay track very badly, on the floor, then perish the thought for their future development. Which responsible reviewer would assess a scale model's performance by running it over track laid on the floor? Fine, if it's a kid's clockwork or push-along train set (that's what they're designed for), but not this. I was staggered! 

 

Thanks for mentioning the Right Track DVDs (I'd like to think they were better-made and far more responsible than Sam's efforts), but the irony is they should not be on Youtube. Whoever put them on, acted illegal by infringing Activity Media's copyright. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

They could be reported for copyright infringement and then YT would review with a view to taking them down. I know the process exists but don't know more than that. I suspect Activity Media would have to do it.

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Hi Folks,

 

I believe Sam gets too hard a time.  There is no doubting his enthusiasm and he seems to be reasonably capable when it comes to mechanics of model locomotives.  What does surprise me, is that given this he does not have a proper test layout.  Even if it was just a board with the most common track components on it, this would add credibility to his reviews.  Sam has obviously chosen to lay his track on the carpet for a reason - I do not think it is something done from ignorance.

 

Having watched some of Sam’s reviews, one cannot dismiss the poor assembly/finish issues his close up photos highlight.  There is definitely improvements to be made by various manufacturers.

 

Finally, I would say do not underestimate Sam’s influence.  With close to 100K followers and high viewing figures he has the ability to impact the wider market.

 

Kind regards 

 

Paddy

 

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53 minutes ago, Paddy said:

Hi Folks,

 

I believe Sam gets too hard a time.  There is no doubting his enthusiasm and he seems to be reasonably capable when it comes to mechanics of model locomotives.  What does surprise me, is that given this he does not have a proper test layout.  Even if it was just a board with the most common track components on it, this would add credibility to his reviews.  Sam has obviously chosen to lay his track on the carpet for a reason - I do not think it is something done from ignorance.

 

Having watched some of Sam’s reviews, one cannot dismiss the poor assembly/finish issues his close up photos highlight.  There is definitely improvements to be made by various manufacturers.

 

Finally, I would say do not underestimate Sam’s influence.  With close to 100K followers and high viewing figures he has the ability to impact the wider market.

 

Kind regards 

 

Paddy

 

This is all very true but that shows the common problem of popularity being confused with credibility.  It is like when the same people are always wheeled out on TV and labelled as an "Expert"; there are likely to be people who know considerably more and are less opinionated but who are too busy working in their area of expertise to want to appear on television.

 

I would question the validity of any "review" of a model, where the reviewer doesn't have (a) any significant knowledge of the prototype and/or (b) a properly-built, permanent track to test performance on.

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It’s not just Sam’s video’s, the ‘unboxing’ theme is used by several you-tubers and I usually find them very tedious.  When it takes up to 15 minutes of inane waffle before the product even emerges out of the box... it just detracts from any real value in the opinions of the reviewer when they finally get there.

 

I understand that the economic aspects of you-tubing encourage extending the content to a certain length, but it strikes me that there is a real opportunity for someone to undertake short and relevant reviews of model railway products that place the viewer’s needs for succinctness above the economic and marketing pressures inherent in the delivery format.

 

That said, there is clearly a good deal of support for what Sam does from a certain demographic.  It reminds me of the polarising views that some of Tony’s content has generated in the Modelling press, but perhaps from an opposite viewpoint?

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9 hours ago, john new said:

They could be reported for copyright infringement and then YT would review with a view to taking them down. I know the process exists but don't know more than that. I suspect Activity Media would have to do it.

Thanks John,

 

Activity Media as a company has ceased to exist since Chris and Wendy Walsh retired. Having spoken to them, they'll not pursue a course of action because they see no point.

 

I think my main concern with the whole process is that one can still see (or could before covid) Right Track DVDs for sale at shows. Another concern is that invariably the 'copies' on line are inferior in quality.

 

I'm delighted that they've proved popular and useful for modellers, but they were also made in order to earn a living. A percentage from the sales of those I was involved with paid part of my salary when I was full-time at BRM.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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The point I was trying to make about Sam’s Trains is that , although he may be a lovely chap he has set himself up as one of these, so called, “influencers “ by just simply starting a You Tube channel. Little knowledge, poor research of the prototype, amongst others seem to be his credentials.  I just think this should be questioned more. It seems anybody can do this and people “ follow” like sheep. Not least they are making money from somewhere for doing it. Unbiased opinion? I think not.

it’s a dangerous precedent when anybody can spout nonsense because they’ve tagged themselves an “expert”. No doubt there are plenty of You Tube influencers trying to tell people why they shouldn’t have the Covid-19 vaccine as well.

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20 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

This is all very true but that shows the common problem of popularity being confused with credibility.  It is like when the same people are always wheeled out on TV and labelled as an "Expert"; there are likely to be people who know considerably more and are less opinionated but who are too busy working in their area of expertise to want to appear on television.

 

I would question the validity of any "review" of a model, where the reviewer doesn't have (a) any significant knowledge of the prototype and/or (b) a properly-built, permanent track to test performance on.


Very true @Northmoor.  Unfortunately, that is not the world we seem to inhabit anymore.  People like Sam have the ability to materially affect the market, companies for the good and not so good.  Think about it, as many people watch Sam’s videos as buy the most popular model railway magazines...

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

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One last point for me on this debate, Sam is comparatively young.  Like most people on this thread, my teens and twenties were before the days of universal camera phones, status updates and live tweets.  How many of us would cringe if views, which we sincerely held and thought were groundbreaking insights, we'd expressed in our teens and twenties to our mates were preserved for all eternity on the internet?


David

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23 minutes ago, Chamby said:

It’s not just Sam’s video’s, the ‘unboxing’ theme is used by several you-tubers and I usually find them very tedious.  When it takes up to 15 minutes of inane waffle before the product even emerges out of the box... it just detracts from any real value in the opinions of the reviewer when they finally get there.

 

I understand that the economic aspects of you-tubing encourage extending the content to a certain length, but it strikes me that there is a real opportunity for someone to undertake short and relevant reviews of model railway products that place the viewer’s needs for succinctness above the economic and marketing pressures inherent in the delivery format.

 

That said, there is clearly a good deal of support for what Sam does from a certain demographic.  It reminds me of the polarising views that some of Tony’s content has generated in the Modelling press, but perhaps from an opposite viewpoint?


Ah, great thing about YT is that you can just skip past the boring bits. :D

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

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9 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks John,

 

Activity Media as a company has ceased to exist since Chris and Wendy Walsh retired. Having spoken to them, they'll not pursue a course of action because they see no point.

 

I think my main concern with the whole process is that one can still see (or could before covid) Right Track DVDs for sale at shows. Another concern is that invariably the 'copies' on line are inferior in quality.

 

I'm delighted that they've proved popular and useful for modellers, but they were also made in order to earn a living. A percentage from the sales of those I was involved with paid part of my salary when I was full-time at BRM.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 


Hi Tony,

 

These were/are (?) a great series of videos and I purchased most of them on DVD at the time.  I will never forget you trying to spray a loco (black if memory serves) as the can squirted paint all over you.  Every time I think of that bit I have a chuckle.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

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9 minutes ago, Roger Sunderland said:

The point I was trying to make about Sam’s Trains is that , although he may be a lovely chap he has set himself up as one of these, so called, “influencers “ by just simply starting a You Tube channel. Little knowledge, poor research of the prototype, amongst others seem to be his credentials.  I just think this should be questioned more. It seems anybody can do this and people “ follow” like sheep. Not least they are making money from somewhere for doing it. Unbiased opinion? I think not.

it’s a dangerous precedent when anybody can spout nonsense because they’ve tagged themselves an “expert”. No doubt there are plenty of You Tube influencers trying to tell people why they shouldn’t have the Covid-19 vaccine as well.


Hi @Roger Sunderland

 

And there you have one of the major problems with social media.  The same issue now affects all facets of modern life and does not seem to show any signs of changing.  I did read the other day that Apple has concerns about this and is considering doubling down on how these platforms operate if they want to exist on the Apple ecosystem.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

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Thanks for all the replies about the A2/2! Seems like a popular topic!

 

I'll have a look at putting mine right, but from what others have said it sounds like it won't really be possible. The model shop I ordered her from have ran out of 505s, so I've emailed Hornby asking if they can help with a replacement. If not then oh well, you can't notice it from a 'prototypical' viewing distance.

 

I've also just noticed on mine that the water scoop on the tender is on back to front! That should be easy to correct though.


As for Sam's Trains, I stopped watching his video on the A2/2 when he picked the model up by the tender with one hand and dangled the loco by the drawbar!

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16 minutes ago, Chamby said:

It’s not just Sam’s video’s, the ‘unboxing’ theme is used by several you-tubers and I usually find them very tedious.  When it takes up to 15 minutes of inane waffle before the product even emerges out of the box... it just detracts from any real value in the opinions of the reviewer when they finally get there.

 

I understand that the economic aspects of you-tubing encourage extending the content to a certain length, but it strikes me that there is a real opportunity for someone to undertake short and relevant reviews of model railway products that place the viewer’s needs for succinctness above the economic and marketing pressures inherent in the delivery format.

 

That said, there is clearly a good deal of support for what Sam does from a certain demographic.  It reminds me of the polarising views that some of Tony’s content has generated in the Modelling press, but perhaps from an opposite viewpoint?

Good morning Phil,

 

I'm pleased that someone has noticed how my 'content' has caused 'polarising views'. 

 

I've lost count of the number of reviews/product assessments I've produced down the years. It must be hundreds and hundreds. These can be broken down into two distinct categories; reviewing an RTR product or reviewing a kit. The latter, obviously, takes more time and 'model-making ability'. 

 

In all of these, I'm aware of the responsibility which comes with 'the territory'. In the case of the former, a responsibility to find out as much about the prototype in question as I can (In Sam's squirm-inducing presentation he comments about the fin smoke deflectors fitted adjacent to the chimney on 60501. He clearly has no idea about them; the fact that they were useless, and also that the type was originally fitted to HUMORIST before the War, the other A2/2s, then the four A2/1s and eventually fitted to four further A3s in BR days). He admits his 'ignorance' to be fair, but, if you're giving an assessment of a model, ignorance is no defence. 

 

In the case of the latter, not only is a working knowledge of the prototype required but also the 'skill' to build a model. What the manufacturer does not want is a review of the builder's skill-level, or lack of it. As to whether Sam actually builds locos, I have no idea, but, given his 'carpet for ballast' technique, I'd be surprised if he did. 

 

Another area of 'responsibility' concerns what happens between after I've written a review and before it's published. Though not always possible (I admit because of deadlines), the manufacturer is shown my review. Though he/she has no right to have it altered, they have a right to reply. This is essential courtesy.

 

Did Sam show his presentation to Hornby beforehand? Unlikely? 

 

I'm not trying to deride the guy, but I wonder if he is fully aware of the responsibilities which come with his 'popularity'? It seems he has far more 'followers' than 'serious' railway modellers, and, I assume, he has influence. Influence enough to have the potential to damage sales of a product? 

 

If things are wrong with a model, especially manufacturing issues, then they should be pointed out. Granted, he was pleased with how his Hornby A2/2 performed, but what kind of an assessment of its capabilities is it by sticking it on eight, very mixed, plastic carriages and running it over track laid on the floor? He did mention something scientific about its pulling power, but that lost me. When I tested 60505, I put it on over 40 wagons and a dozen carriages respectively, some metal kit-builds; then filmed it! Simon Kohler at Hornby saw my comments and saw my film before anything about it was published or shown. As I say, responsibility. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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