Wright writes.....

[gordon s]

Had an entertaining day with my J50 chassis. I've had it running this morning and all was well other than it was a little clunky for my liking, probably because of the oversize holes, so I decided to start again. I found some new crankpins and crankpin bushes in my spares drawer and spent the afternoon removing the rods to solder in the bushes and  then gently opening the holes again until the chassis ran smoothly.

 

Big improvement and pleased with what I had done until I went to tighten the grub screw on the gear wheel and blow me, one side of the screwdriver slot, just sheared off. I certainly wasn't over tightening it as I could remove the remains of the screw. It appears to be 1.6mm diameter and around 1.5mm - 2mm long.

 

Sent a note to DJH this evening to see if I can get some spares, but now stuck until they respond.

 

No worries, it can go back in the box and I have a single slip to build. Thanks for all your tips and advice. They were invaluable.

 

Also thanks for all the pics of Wood Green. There really have been some beautiful locos on these pages over the past few days.

Edited March 6, 2021 by gordon s

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, gordon s said:

Had entertaining day with my J50 chassis. I've had it running this morning and all was well other than it was a little clunky for my liking, probably because of the oversize holes, so I decided to start again. I found some new crankpins and crankpin bushes in my spares drawer and spent the afternoon removing the rods to solder in the bushes and  then gently opening the holes again until the chassis ran smoothly.

 

Big improvement and pleased with what I had done until I went to tighten the grub screw on the gear wheel and blow me, one side of the screwdriver slot, just sheared off. I certainly wasn't over tightening it as I could remove the remains of the screw. It appears to be 1.6mm diameter and around 1.5mm - 2mm long.

 

Sent a note to DJH this evening to see if I can get some spares, but now stuck until they respond.

 

No worries, it can go back in the box and I have a single slip to build. Thanks for all your tips and advice. They were invaluable.

 

Also thanks for all the pics of Wood Green. There really are some beautiful locos on these pages over the past few days.

Good evening Gordon,

 

A broken grub screw is very common. 

 

One dodge is to file a flat on the driven axle (in line with a crankpin, so you can orientate it). Then, using a pair of snipe-nosed pliers, you can reinsert the grub screw, and it only needs tightening a little then, engaging with the flat. 

 

Or, put a drill through the hole in the gearwheel, into the axle. Find some brass wire that's a snug fit into the hole in the axle, and then solder it to the gearwheel, nipping off the excess, but leaving enough should you ever need to remove it. 

 

Or, get a 10BA screw with a small head, cut it to length and use that as a grub screw (it's the same pitch). 

 

Been there, seen it, done it!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Ian Rathbone said:

Of course I can’t remember, it has to be 30 years ago. They must have done some miles! 
 

I haven’t built anything in 4mm scale for some years, my last being a commission for ‘Titfield Thunderbolt’ from a K’s Milestone kit, no less. This is my latest in 7mm -

 

 

Working inside motion, compensated chassis and, whisper it quietly, DCC.

 

I’ll get my coat.

 

Ian R

Outstanding work Ian,

 

Why have you been absent from this thread for so long?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Chris Turnbull]

On 06/01/2021 at 08:40, Tony Wright said:

I regret chucking all those away.

 

If my memory serves, in conversation with Chris Leigh many years ago, the photographs were the work of Colin Gifford (or, if not him, another contemporary, famous railway photographer). They would set things up in the offices (in a kind of mini studio) and try all sorts of angles. The films then had to be developed and printed. If they didn't work, they had to be shot again (no digital image in the back of the camera in those days). 

 

I thought some were terrific.

 

I know Chris occasionally dips into here, so perhaps he might comment. 

Just picked up on this tread so apologies for the late reply.

 

When I had a chat with Alan Williams a few years ago he confirmed that Colin Gifford was the photographer.  He also said that he still had one of the dioramas in his loft - the roundhouse I think - but that could have been before his move from Effingham to Yorkshire so it may have gone now.

 

I still have all these issues on my bookcase and I still delve into them from time to time.

 

Chris Turnbull

[Coach bogie]

16 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It would seem that the Class 91s are history on the line now.

 

I haven't seen one fizz by us for weeks now. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

LNER are keeping 12 sets. All are in warm storage at the moment due to reduced timetablk. For a full service, including the expanded and planned routes such as Sunderland, Lincoln, Harrogate, and soon Middlesbrough, and in addition, the Hitachi' fleet being required to be returned for modifications to the inter car connectors,  there are not enough Hitachi's units to meet the needs. The plan was to keep 10 in service, two spares until at least 2023.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[APOLLO]

I think some were to be used on a London Euston - Blackpool service. They were repainted, staff hired etc but due to Covid the whole lot is either binned or on hold. Probably binned as the staff were "let go".

 

Would have been nice to see proper electric loco hauled trains "fizzing" past my house !!

 

Brit15

[Tony Wright]

In between subbing/proof-reading yesterday (I couldn't watch the cricket; we were dismal!), I've got on with the Gibson 'County' tank...................

 

 

Lining up the footplate overlay for soldering required the skeletal body formers to be inserted at the same time. Most tabs fitted the slots easily, but not all (as usual). Needless to say, I fully-employed my third hand!

 

 

All the half-etched sections had bowed considerably. Is this typical? The tank sides have a pronounced curve; I hope they won't cockle under soldering.

 

The footsteps are incredibly vulnerable at this stage. 

 

It's the J3's turn today...........................

 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Tony Wright
typo error

[PenrithBeacon]

Interesting gearbox!

[Tony Wright]

11 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Interesting gearbox!

It's DJH's AM10, David (I assume you're referring to the unit in the 'County' tank?).

 

Super-smooth, quiet and powerful, and a doddle to fit, being already made-up.

 

Some have expressed disapproval of the price (around £75.00), but this loco is being built on commission; meaning my time has a price (assembling a gearbox properly takes time) and the customer insists (as he should) on 'perfect' running.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[gr.king]

On 05/03/2021 at 11:40, Tony Wright said:

P1s Graeme,

 

I know you've made a very nice one indeed.

 

 

Which sees service on Grantham.........

 

 

And, has run on Little Bytham, of course.

 

I'm sure you've told me how you built it, but my memory crumbles!

 

Tony. 

 

 

The origins of my P1 involve just about every one of Heinz's 57 varieties. The full 2008/9 construction saga was on an earlier incarnation of RMWeb, but the repeated mutation and grafting onto new roots of the site firstly saw the details moved to an "archive" and then after a period they vanished.

 

The main loco frames, motion parts, cylinder stretchers and leading truck were adapted from Tony's very "favourite" O2 kit whose name is shared with a playing card. The coupled wheels are Scalelink, which don't have the most authentic appearance but are self-quartering and at the time were certainly less expensive than Markits wheels. Between the frames, because there's a view under the boiler, I made the stretchers the right sort of profile, added cosmetic hornblocks and middle slidebar, and created a crank-web / counterweight rotating on the driving axle. That was done with the aid of the very "busy" small drawing on the back of the Yeadon volume, and some photographs of 4472 without boiler.

There's no middle con-rod; I reckoned that would be too tricky and barely visible if ever seen.

The rear frames are scratchbuilt from brass, the rear truck an adapted Bachmann part, and I think the neat brass Cartazzi units came from Branchlines. The cylinder facings are Comet parts. The in-gear valve spindles pass right through and have a rudimentary representation of the ends of the  conjugation levers on the front. Drive is by a Mashima with carefully meshed and therefore quiet open Markits gears.

 

 

The running plate started out as two lengths of small square brass bar very carefully formed to the shape of the angle irons, with a number of pre-curved pieces of thin brass sheet and some additional transverse pieces of brass bar subsequently soldered on. I didn't fancy trying to shape the whole lot in one and then solder it in place without any thermal distortion problems. The necessary smokebox saddle was built up from plasticard. Cab and boiler came from a Hornby Margate tender-drive A1 body moulding. The front buffers are probably sprung Maygib.

 

Although there was / is an etched brass kit for the 4700 gallon tender as eventually modified (shortened) for use with B2 locos, the maker assured me that I would have a tricky time backdating it to original condition, so I took another approach. Dismantling a Replica 4200 gallon tender, I cut and shut the underframe to get the correct wheel base, extending it at the front too. I then removed the side coal plates from the body, filed off all of the external details and ridges sides and rear, then added new overlays of plasticard cut to the correct shapes, giving the right body width in the process. The front plate of the 4200 gal tank looked nothing like the parts that I could see in photographs of the P2 tenders, which seemed to be very much like the GN 8 wheeled tender in that respect, so I cut out the rogue area and grafted in a substitute cut from a spare Margate version of the GN tender body.

 

 

A lot of detailing with reference to drawings and photographs completed the job.

 

None of it cost frightening amounts, as it was still the time when ex-Margate factory spares were reasonably cheap and certainly plentiful, and when other second-hand items sold for perfectly reasonable "used" prices. Many of the more specialised individual builder's components weren't all that pricey either, whether from major or from small manufacturers. Now that limited-run batch manufacture, greed, foolishness and things such as "single officially appointed spares dealer only" and eBay algorithm "suggested pricing" result in much being priced almost like Cartier, the use of RTR components in projects has considerably less appeal...

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by gr.king
Clarification

[Michael Edge]

14 hours ago, gordon s said:

Had an entertaining day with my J50 chassis. I've had it running this morning and all was well other than it was a little clunky for my liking, probably because of the oversize holes, so I decided to start again. I found some new crankpins and crankpin bushes in my spares drawer and spent the afternoon removing the rods to solder in the bushes and  then gently opening the holes again until the chassis ran smoothly.

 

Big improvement and pleased with what I had done until I went to tighten the grub screw on the gear wheel and blow me, one side of the screwdriver slot, just sheared off. I certainly wasn't over tightening it as I could remove the remains of the screw. It appears to be 1.6mm diameter and around 1.5mm - 2mm long.

 

Sent a note to DJH this evening to see if I can get some spares, but now stuck until they respond.

 

No worries, it can go back in the box and I have a single slip to build. Thanks for all your tips and advice. They were invaluable.

 

Also thanks for all the pics of Wood Green. There really have been some beautiful locos on these pages over the past few days.

A properly made grubscrew shouldn't protrude from the hole (there's a clue in the name...), they break off like this because they stick out too far. If you have a piecing saw you can easily cut another slot in the end, or deepen what's left without removing the gearbox from the frames.

[Michael Edge]

54 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

In between subbing/proof-reading yesterday (I couldn't watch the cricket; we were dismal!), I've got on with the Gibson 'County' tank.................

 

All the half-etched sections had bowed considerably. Is this typical? The tank sides have a pronounced curve; I hope they won't cockle under soldering.

 

The footsteps are incredibly vulnerable at this stage. 

 

It's the J3's turn today...........................

 

 

The curve in extensively half etched sheets is due to relief of the stress rolled into the sheet which is an unavoidable part of the production of sheet metal. It's usually worse with nickel silver though and it can be corrected by annealing before the etching process - equally though this can be overdone and the result is a sheet which isn't hard enough. You will see the same effect if you cut a narrow strip off the side of a rolled sheet, it will curve sideways and there's nothing you can do about it. I always cut a narrow sacrificial strip off the sheet to avoid this. For the same reason sheet metal always cracks more easily in one plane than the other - sometimes referred to as with or against the "grain".

Going back to the etched overlays you have to be very careful with heat management as you solder them up, keep the solder round the outer edges and resist the temptation to solder round any holes in the backing structure. Some kits are deliberately designed with large holes all over them and the outer skin inevitably distorts around the edges of all the holes. You might begin to understand why I avoid etched overlays as far as possible in my kit designs.

 

[t-b-g]

32 minutes ago, gr.king said:

 

The origins of my P1 involve just about every one of Heinz's 57 varieties. The full 2008/9 construction saga was on an earlier incarnation of RMWeb, but the repeated mutation and grafting onto new roots of the site firstly saw the details moved to an "archive" and then after a period they vanished.

 

The main loco frames, motion parts, cylinder stretchers and leading truck were adapted from Tony's very "favourite" O2 kit whose name is shared with a playing card. The coupled wheels are Scalelink, which don't have the most authentic appearance but are self-quartering and at the time were certainly less expensive than Markits wheels. Between the frames, because there's a view under the boiler, I made the stretchers the right sort of profile, added cosmetic hornblocks and middle slidebar, and created a crank-web / counterweight rotating on the driving axle. That was done with the aid of the very "busy" small drawing on the back of the Yeadon volume, and some photographs of 4472 without boiler.

There's no middle con-rod; I reckoned that would be too tricky and barely visible if ever seen.

The rear frames are scratchbuilt from brass, the rear truck an adapted Bachmann part, and I think the neat brass Cartazzi units came from Branchlines. The cylinder facings are Comet parts. The in-gear valve spindles pass right through and have a rudimentary representation of the ends of the  conjugation levers on the front. Drive is by a Mashima with carefully meshed and therefore quiet open Markits gears.

 

 

The running plate started out as two lengths of small square brass bar very carefully formed to the shape of the angle irons, with a number of pre-curved pieces of thin brass sheet and some additional transverse pieces of brass bar subsequently solder on. I didn't fancy trying to shape the whole lot in one and solder it in place without any thermal distortion problems. The necessary smokebox saddle was built up from plasticard. Cab and boiler came from a Hornby Margate tender-drive A1 body moulding. The front buffers are probably sprung Maygib.

 

Although there was / is an etched brass kit for the 4700 gallon tender as eventually modified (shortened) for use with B2 locos, the maker assured me that I would have a tricky time backdating it to original condition, so I took another approach. Dismantling a Replica 4200 gallon tender, I cut and shut the underframe to get the correct wheel base, extending it at the front too. I then removed the side coal plates from the body, filed off all of the external details and ridges sides and rear, then added new overlays of plasticard cut to the correct shapes, giving the right body width in the process. The front plate of the 4200 gal tank looked nothing like the parts that I could see in photographs of the P2 tenders, which seemed to be very much like the GN 8 wheeled tender in that respect, so I cut out the rogue area and grafted in a substitute cut from a spare Margate version of the GN tender body.

 

 

A lot of detailing with reference to drawings and photographs completed the job.

 

None of it cost frightening amounts, as it was still the time when ex-Margate factory spares were reasonably cheap and certainly plentiful, and when other second-hand items sold for perfectly reasonable "used" prices. Many components weren't all that pricey either, whether from major or from small manufacturers. Now that limited-run batch manufacture, greed, foolishness and things such as "single officially appointed spares dealer only" and eBay algorithm "suggested pricing" result in everything being priced almost like Cartier, the use of RTR components in projects has considerably less appeal...

 

 

A lovely model of what I always thought was one of the best looking heavy goods locos to run in this country.

 

I bought a spare A1 body from a stand at a show many years ago when I was modelling the LNER in the 1930s, with a view to doing something similar. Since my interests have gone back in time, it will probably never get done now. My enthusiasm for doing it pretty much vanished when Malcolm Crawley scratchbuilt his. It was one of his very best models. He did put in a crank axle and a working inside connecting rod. Somehow a converted Hornby body didn't seem adequate after that but your example shows that it with some careful work, it could have made a really good model. 

 

 

[gordon s]

Apologies, Tony for yet another question, but have just seen you have DJH motor gearbox in your chassis. Yours is an AM10 whereas the J50 is an AM9, but hopefully they are of similar construction. I noticed yesterday that this gear appeared to be loose in the frame, but now believe the section highlighted in yellow may simply be a sleeve. With the motor running that part of the gear seems to be floating and free to move. Is that correct or is there an issue with this motor gearbox?

 

I would have thought the whole gear would be in one piece, but that appears to not be the case. I can see the end of a spindle in the frame, so it appears not to be loose, but just looks strange moving about when the motor is running.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

A lovely model of what I always thought was one of the best looking heavy goods locos to run in this country.

 

I bought a spare A1 body from a stand at a show many years ago when I was modelling the LNER in the 1930s, with a view to doing something similar. Since my interests have gone back in time, it will probably never get done now. My enthusiasm for doing it pretty much vanished when Malcolm Crawley scratchbuilt his. It was one of his very best models. He did put in a crank axle and a working inside connecting rod. Somehow a converted Hornby body didn't seem adequate after that but your example shows that it with some careful work, it could have made a really good model. 

 

 

Good afternoon Tony,

 

Do you know what happened to Malcolm's wonderful P1?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

16 minutes ago, gordon s said:

Apologies, Tony for yet another question, but have just seen you have DJH motor gearbox in your chassis. Yours is an AM10 whereas the J50 is an AM9, but hopefully they are of similar construction. I noticed yesterday that this gear appeared to be loose in the frame, but now believe the section highlighted in yellow may simply be a sleeve. With the motor running that part of the gear seems to be floating and free to move. Is that correct or is there an issue with this motor gearbox?

 

I would have thought the whole gear would be in one piece, but that appears to not be the case. I can see the end of a spindle in the frame, so it appears not to be loose, but just looks strange moving about when the motor is running.

 

 

Don't be alarmed Gordon,

 

What you've shown is exactly as you describe; it's just a spacing sleeve.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[zr2498]

Recommended viewing.

I bet Tony is even faster!

Dave

 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Tony,

 

Do you know what happened to Malcolm's wonderful P1?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Hello Tony. I still keep in touch with Malcolm's widow and I do know what has happened to a lot of his models.

 

Marian still has the vast majority of his locos in a display cabinet. He left a few of the GCR ones to me in his will, around a dozen ex NER types went with Thompson's End to a new home with one of Malcolm's Godsons and the rest are still in the display cabinet, including the P1.

 

I

[LNER4479]

17 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

Recommended viewing.

I bet Tony is even faster!

Dave

 

 

Blimey - E's got asbestos fingers, that's for sure. Thanks for highlighting.

[LNER4479]

Hello Tony,

 

You may (or may not?) recall me posting on here a little while back about my efforts to resuscitate an old scratchbuilt Royal Scot, using one of the new DJH motor / gearbox combos. Well, knowing how you like to see folks doing it for themselves, I'm pleased to report a modicum of success.

 

I grafted new pieces of brass into the chassis sides to hide the old V slot for the previous X04 motor, prior to painting.

 

      

New motion bracket parts were cut and the detail added with fuse, plus the cover plate.

 

Now with full valve gear reinstated to look a little bit more like what Royal Scot valve gear should look like. New Gibson front bogie wheels.

 

Loco is now 'released to traffic' for running trials, pending final completion (including installation of brake gear, which was absent from the original model).

 

Full story on the 'Hills of the North' layout thread; apologies for any who have already seen this story over there.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

Hello Tony,

 

You may (or may not?) recall me posting on here a little while back about my efforts to resuscitate an old scratchbuilt Royal Scot, using one of the new DJH motor / gearbox combos. Well, knowing how you like to see folks doing it for themselves, I'm pleased to report a modicum of success.

 

I grafted new pieces of brass into the chassis sides to hide the old V slot for the previous X04 motor, prior to painting.

 

      

New motion bracket parts were cut and the detail added with fuse, plus the cover plate.

 

Now with full valve gear reinstated to look a little bit more like what Royal Scot valve gear should look like. New Gibson front bogie wheels.

 

Loco is now 'released to traffic' for running trials, pending final completion (including installation of brake gear, which was absent from the original model).

 

Full story on the 'Hills of the North' layout thread; apologies for any who have already seen this story over there.

 

 

Great stuff Graham,

 

Though, as with many others, never feel the need to apologise for putting your work on here.

 

It's great when older models are resurrected and given a new lease of life. It'll certainly go as well, with that new DJH motor/gearbox.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Recommended viewing.

I bet Tony is even faster!

Dave

 

Fascinating,

 

Thanks for posting.

 

It's good to see the builder employs all the same 'elf 'n safety' protocols I do!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Not as much modelling today as I'd hoped, but a bit of gardening was required!

 

 

Still, much of the basic work on the LRM J3's tender is completed. 

 

I made the mistake once of building all the bodywork on one of these tenders before I fitted the axleboxes, only to discover that the holes in the frames to accommodate the lips on the castings are far, far too small. Opening them out resulted in the fine coal rails being bent. Never again! 

 

Plenty of metal-forming needed.......................

 

GN tenders are a real minefield. I believe this sort rejoices in the name of 'horseshoe'. 

[chris p bacon]

12 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

GN tenders are a real minefield.

 

This will help those sleepless nights figuring them out....

https://www.gnrsociety.com/home-page/shop/loco01-great-northern-railway-locomotive-tenders-by-malcolm-crawley/

 

Malcolms publication for the GNRS with drawings by Paul Craig.

[LNER4479]

... and they got rebuilt during their lives. So what started out as a horseshoe could easily, certainly by BR days, could look somewhat different.

 

I 'cottoned on' to this during my more recent D2 build and duly reconfigured it with the higher front coal plate. I'll see if I can find a picture ...