RMweb Premium Popular Post thegreenhowards Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2021 24 minutes ago, LNER4479 said: That's very kind but ... shh! Keep it to yourself - it's actually lining transfers. Like you, I'm not so confident with painting and lining. This one's OK as it's mine (although it will appear at exhibitions I suppose) but the work of the likes of Ian is artistry I could never aspire to. And it's not like I haven't tried! I find transfer lining works pretty well and is certainly neater than I could manage with a lining pen. This 0 Gauge N1 is my latest lining project. I bought it as a rather tired BR example, added the condensing pipes and repainted into LNER livery. The lining is with Fox transfers on Halfords’ gloss black with a matt automotive lacquer over the top. I did try bow pen lining once but with a rather old borrowed bow pen. I couldn’t get it too work at all. However I have a number of teak coaches to line fairly soon and I’m not sure that could be done by transfers - has anyone tried transfers on the beading? I’m thinking I may have to take myself off to a lining course at Missenden as and when that’s allowed. The N1 has now been posted off to TRS trains for fitting with synchronised smoke and sound. I have a sneaky suspicion that ‘sir’ won’t approve! Andy 20 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said: I have a number of teak coaches to line fairly soon and I’m not sure that could be done by transfers - has anyone tried transfers on the beading? Andy I tried lining Midland coaches with transfers and it did not work well. I eventually got the verticals in place in straight lines but as soon as I tried to get the horizontals in place the verticals moved. I suppose I could have varnished the verticals in before starting on the horizontals but I was already losing the will to live by this stage. Of course this is different to a teak where the lining is on the top of the beading rather than the side. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said: I find transfer lining works pretty well and is certainly neater than I could manage with a lining pen. This 0 Gauge N1 is my latest lining project. I bought it as a rather tired BR example, added the condensing pipes and repainted into LNER livery. The lining is with Fox transfers on Halfords’ gloss black with a matt automotive lacquer over the top. I did try bow pen lining once but with a rather old borrowed bow pen. I couldn’t get it too work at all. However I have a number of teak coaches to line fairly soon and I’m not sure that could be done by transfers - has anyone tried transfers on the beading? I’m thinking I may have to take myself off to a lining course at Missenden as and when that’s allowed. The N1 has now been posted off to TRS trains for fitting with synchronised smoke and sound. I have a sneaky suspicion that ‘sir’ won’t approve! Andy That's lovely, Andy. But I'm going to jump in before 'Sir' does - black buffer shanks? (easily 'sorted') Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said: I find transfer lining works pretty well and is certainly neater than I could manage with a lining pen. This 0 Gauge N1 is my latest lining project. I bought it as a rather tired BR example, added the condensing pipes and repainted into LNER livery. The lining is with Fox transfers on Halfords’ gloss black with a matt automotive lacquer over the top. I did try bow pen lining once but with a rather old borrowed bow pen. I couldn’t get it too work at all. However I have a number of teak coaches to line fairly soon and I’m not sure that could be done by transfers - has anyone tried transfers on the beading? I’m thinking I may have to take myself off to a lining course at Missenden as and when that’s allowed. The N1 has now been posted off to TRS trains for fitting with synchronised smoke and sound. I have a sneaky suspicion that ‘sir’ won’t approve! Andy I don't disapprove at all Andy, It's your money. The N1 is beautifully-finished, though is the smokebox/boiler up at the front? It could be the camera angle but the top of the boiler appears not to be parallel with the top of the tanks. I've looked at the spray lacquers at Halfords. Looking at what you've achieved, I'll give them a try. Transfer lining on top of beading? Though I haven't tried it on teak, I've failed dismally with BR orange/black/orange (or gold/black/gold). It just won't 'wrap' around, because there isn't enough 'land' for it to adhere to. It just curls off! Thus, I fix it below the horizontal beading lines, which seems to work, even though it's incorrect. Regards, Tony. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, LNER4479 said: That's lovely, Andy. But I'm going to jump in before 'Sir' does - black buffer shanks? (easily 'sorted') Ahh, I’m still getting used to LNER as opposed to BR colour schemes, not helped by predominantly black and white photos. This is a relic of the BR colour scheme I inherited and I didn’t think to check. Anyway, as you say easily sorted so thanks for the tip off. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: I don't disapprove at all Andy, It's your money. The N1 is beautifully-finished, though is the smokebox/boiler up at the front? It could be the camera angle but the top of the boiler appears not to be parallel with the top of the tanks. I've looked at the spray lacquers at Halfords. Looking at what you've achieved, I'll give them a try. Transfer lining on top of beading? Though I haven't tried it on teak, I've failed dismally with BR orange/black/orange (or gold/black/gold). It just won't 'wrap' around, because there isn't enough 'land' for it to adhere to. It just curls off! Thus, I fix it below the horizontal beading lines, which seems to work, even though it's incorrect. Regards, Tony. Thanks Tony, I can’t check the boiler now as it’s gone off for smoke fitting as I said. I suspect it will be on and off several times during that process fitting the steam reservoir so I’ll probably never know! I’ve used the gloss lacquers for a while now on coaches but hadn’t tried the matt until this loco when my Testors Dullcote ran out and I couldn’t source any more online. I used this version. I sealed the transfers first with micro sol (don’t know whether that was necessary or not) and then sprayed with this. I’m pleased with the results and it’s a similar price to Dullcote for a much bigger can. Andy 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said: I tried lining Midland coaches with transfers and it did not work well. I eventually got the verticals in place in straight lines but as soon as I tried to get the horizontals in place the verticals moved. I suppose I could have varnished the verticals in before starting on the horizontals but I was already losing the will to live by this stage. Of course this is different to a teak where the lining is on the top of the beading rather than the side. Yes, it’s the top of the beading which I think will be really difficult with transfers. Conversely I suppose it should make it easier to line with paint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said: Thanks Tony, I can’t check the boiler now as it’s gone off for smoke fitting as I said. I suspect it will be on and off several times during that process fitting the steam reservoir so I’ll probably never know! I’ve used the gloss lacquers for a while now on coaches but hadn’t tried the matt until this loco when my Testors Dullcote ran out and I couldn’t source any more online. I used this version. I sealed the transfers first with micro sol (don’t know whether that was necessary or not) and then sprayed with this. I’m pleased with the results and it’s a similar price to Dullcote for a much bigger can. Andy Hi Andy, I have used Halfords matt and satin lacquers over automotive paints and I always seal the transfers with B&Q water based satin varnish or the transfers curl up and dissolve. I found out the hard way that transfers and spray lacquers don't get along. Gibbo. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) Just now, thegreenhowards said: Ahh, I’m still getting used to LNER as opposed to BR colour schemes, not helped by predominantly black and white photos. This is a relic of the BR colour scheme I inherited and I didn’t think to check. Anyway, as you say easily sorted so thanks for the tip off. Andy I feel your pain! The first time I showed Tony my first LNER paint job he very kindly, immediately pointed out the buffers thing. (apologies for poor quality photo but you can at least see my original error in this regard) By the time I visited Little Bytham with said loco, it had been put right! (Tony's photo, c.2013) Edited March 28, 2021 by LNER4479 8 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2021 57 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said: Ahh, I’m still getting used to LNER as opposed to BR colour schemes, not helped by predominantly black and white photos. This is a relic of the BR colour scheme I inherited and I didn’t think to check. Anyway, as you say easily sorted so thanks for the tip off. Andy LNER normally painted buffer housings black, on most other railways and in BR days they were red. The buffer shanks though should always be black, in steam days these were mostly castings with no machined surfaces (Spencer-Moulton buffers on A4s an exception) , the whole thing was painted black. Shiny buffer heads were only for special occasions, some sheds which often had royal train workings kept a special set of polished buffers and couplings for them. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 13 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said: At long last I have been able to undertake final assembly of one of my Covid lockdown projects. Design started in January 2021 and was for me my most difficult project to date because of its curved footplate. Main features are EM gauge, Ultrascale wheels, American pickup, motor-in-tender drive system, and CSB suspension. The tender is the LRM Horseshoe tender. My thanks must go to Ian Rathbone for the superb painting and lining. And yes I have glazed the spectacle plates Tony. Lamps will have to wait until we know what train it will be rostered to haul on Clayton. Four other loco's were returned along with the J1 and so there will be further updates in due course. Hi Frank The J1 looks very nice. I'm curious about it being painted in lined black with post 1928 number position on the cab. Do you have a photo of 3009 in lined black with the number on the cab rather than on the tender as it was in pre-1928 paint scheme? An easy way to tell is evidence of the black white lining around the edge of the front buffer beam which was a characteristic of lined black engines. Yeadon's Register indicates 3009's first shopping after beginning of 1928 was a general at Doncaster early in 1930 so I imagine at that time it would have been painted plain black and prior to that would have had the number on the tender. There is actually a photo of 3009 in Yeadon Vol 37A on page 18 and it appears to be plain black. Although the caption in Yeadon actually states that red lining was discontinued from about 1930 as an economy measure. In the photo it is plain black. I see you have used the LRM Horseshoe tender. GN tenders are a minefield as has been explored previously on Wright Writes. I would think the tender should have the front coal plate forward of the tool boxes as described previously in Graham Nicholas' description of the building of his D2 seen on the previous page. I'm shortly to build one of these tenders for a D3. I'm also curious about the red lining on the driving wheels - I've only seen this on certain J72s painted at Darlington. Does anybody know if this was a practice undertaken on black engines painted at Doncaster? I hope this J1 becomes an LRM kit? Andrew 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Michael Edge said: LNER normally painted buffer housings black, on most other railways and in BR days they were red. The buffer shanks though should always be black, in steam days these were mostly castings with no machined surfaces (Spencer-Moulton buffers on A4s an exception) , the whole thing was painted black. Shiny buffer heads were only for special occasions, some sheds which often had royal train workings kept a special set of polished buffers and couplings for them. Mea culpa in terms of careless terminology. I'm not so sure about real buffer shanks / head being painted black, however. My first hand experience - albeit in more modern times - are that those hefty castings comprising the shank and head are simply left unpainted. What they do have however, is regular application of grease (buffer head) and oil (shank) as part of planned maintenance. That attracts dirt like nobody's business and thus very quickly becomes extremely dark and as good as black in appearance. If they were genuinely painted in previous eras, then fair enough - I bow to your greater knowledge! I'm also slightly influenced by playing with preserved locos! The following sequence of pictures from 2009 illustrates the point re grease on buffers. Thornton Junction. Awaiting to go off shed with Tornado. Front buffer heads wiped clean. Note however contrast with No.9's tender buffers on the left hand side. We were then called upon to shunt No.9 back into the shed ... Result? See how quickly the dirt-ingrained grease transfers! Fortunately, there was time in Millerhill yard to clean them up again. I then went one stage further and used the emery cloth to apply the distinctive 'quartering' effect in time-honoured Top shed and Haymarket style! Loco then stayed like that for the rest of the day whilst on public view but no doubt got greased up again the first time something else (less well cared for!) got coupled on the front end! Edited March 28, 2021 by LNER4479 15 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post 31A Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2021 38 minutes ago, LNER4479 said: I then went one stage further and used the emery cloth to apply the distinctive 'quartering' effect in time-honoured Top shed and Haymarket style! Ah quartered buffers! 21 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2021 I don't know whether buffers were painted black but that's what colour they were so the difference is immaterial - we should paint them black unless they were specially cleaned for some occasion. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 2 hours ago, 31A said: Ah quartered buffers! How did you manage that? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, davidw said: How did you manage that? Thank you for asking, David! I cut little squares of Sellotape, and stuck two on each buffer head so that the corners met in the middle and alternate quarters were masked by the Sellotape. Then scrubbed the buffer heads with a fibreglass scratch brush. Then removing the tape revealed that quarters had been scoured and the other quarters had been protected by the Sellotape. I think the buffers are plated brass, so don't scrub too hard otherwise the quarters will be brass coloured! 1 5 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, 31A said: Thank you for asking, David! I cut little squares of Sellotape, and stuck two on each buffer head so that the corners met in the middle and alternate quarters were masked by the Sellotape. Then scrubbed the buffer heads with a fibreglass scratch brush. Then removing the tape revealed that quarters had been scoured and the other quarters had been protected by the Sellotape. I think the buffers are plated brass, so don't scrub too hard otherwise the quarters will be brass coloured! Very clever. I'd never have thought of it. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 hours ago, 31A said: Ah quartered buffers! Looks like a decent turn under the cylinders too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, LNER4479 said: I'm also slightly influenced by playing with preserved locos! The following sequence of pictures from 2009 illustrates the point re grease on buffers. Thornton Junction. Awaiting to go off shed with Tornado. Front buffer heads wiped clean. Note however contrast with No.9's tender buffers on the left hand side. We were then called upon to shunt No.9 back into the shed ... Result? See how quickly the dirt-ingrained grease transfers! Fortunately, there was time in Millerhill yard to clean them up again. I then went one stage further and used the emery cloth to apply the distinctive 'quartering' effect in time-honoured Top shed and Haymarket style! Loco then stayed like that for the rest of the day whilst on public view but no doubt got greased up again the first time something else (less well cared for!) got coupled on the front end! Fabulous Edited March 28, 2021 by Chas Levin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2021 20 minutes ago, davidw said: Looks like a decent turn under the cylinders too. Thanks David; its a thing about the Hornby A4 that's always bugged me; I did put a bit on my layout thread a little while ago about how I did it: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83030-train-spotting-at-finsbury-square/page/29/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 hours ago, 313201 said: Hi Everyone Can I ask please what train loads the LNER B1 & B12 4-6-0s would have hauled. Currently I have models of B1 number 61250 A Harold Bibby aswell as 2 B12s both triang Hornby locos, 1 carrying the original number 8509 and the other I numbered as 8524. I generally have them hauling 5 Gresley bogie coaches as used on the flying scotsman train but rarely hauling freight as I have added weight inside some of the vehicles 16 of which are 4 wheel box wagons as the derailed if no extra weight was added.. Any information anybody has will be very useful and highly welcome and thankyou in advance for any replies. I don't know off hand what the maximum loads the prototype B1s (5MT) and B12s (4P3F) would have been limited to, but at times they could be substantial. Up to the advent of the B17s, the (original) B12s took up to and beyond 400 ton loads on the Liverpool Street-Norwich main line, but by BR days, and in their dotage (even as B12/3s), loads would have been lighter. In the latest book on the LNER 4-6-0s, published by Pen and Sword, there's a shot of 61574 on eight bogies, on the ECML near Retford. B1s could also haul heavy loads, on occasions principal services on the ex-GE and ex-GC main lines; named principal services. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theakerr Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 hours ago, 313201 said: Hi Everyone Can I ask please what train loads the LNER B1 & B12 4-6-0s would have hauled. Currently I have models of B1 number 61250 A Harold Bibby aswell as 2 B12s both triang Hornby locos, 1 carrying the original number 8509 and the other I numbered as 8524. I generally have them hauling 5 Gresley bogie coaches as used on the flying scotsman train but rarely hauling freight as I have added weight inside some of the vehicles 16 of which are 4 wheel box wagons as the derailed if no extra weight was added.. Any information anybody has will be very useful and highly welcome and thankyou in advance for any replies. Cannot comment on the B12s but it was nothing to see 13/14 coaches (mixture of Thompson, Gresly and early MK1s) behind the Cleethorpes, Grimsby, London trains 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuffer Davies Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 5 hours ago, Woodcock29 said: Hi Frank The J1 looks very nice. I'm curious about it being painted in lined black with post 1928 number position on the cab. Do you have a photo of 3009 in lined black with the number on the cab rather than on the tender as it was in pre-1928 paint scheme? An easy way to tell is evidence of the black white lining around the edge of the front buffer beam which was a characteristic of lined black engines. Yeadon's Register indicates 3009's first shopping after beginning of 1928 was a general at Doncaster early in 1930 so I imagine at that time it would have been painted plain black and prior to that would have had the number on the tender. There is actually a photo of 3009 in Yeadon Vol 37A on page 18 and it appears to be plain black. Although the caption in Yeadon actually states that red lining was discontinued from about 1930 as an economy measure. In the photo it is plain black. I see you have used the LRM Horseshoe tender. GN tenders are a minefield as has been explored previously on Wright Writes. I would think the tender should have the front coal plate forward of the tool boxes as described previously in Graham Nicholas' description of the building of his D2 seen on the previous page. I'm shortly to build one of these tenders for a D3. I'm also curious about the red lining on the driving wheels - I've only seen this on certain J72s painted at Darlington. Does anybody know if this was a practice undertaken on black engines painted at Doncaster? I hope this J1 becomes an LRM kit? Andrew Hi Andrew I think you are probably correct in that the model should have the number on the tender (damn it). I provided Ian with a picture of 3009 as it was in the mid 1930's as I wanted him to paint it but also stipulated I wanted it lined. It is obvious looking again at the picture that the loco was not lined by the time the picture was taken. I'm still getting my head around many things LNER and I think I got tripped up by some narrative saying that after 1930 the LNER stopped lining out the J1's, so as Clayton is set around 1930 I took the opportunity to have a lined model. As to the position of the coal plate, as you said GN tenders are a real mine field. The following part image is what I used for reference for the tool boxes and coal plate on 3009's tender. The photo was one I picked up at a model railway exhibition so I don't have permission to share it, but hopefully this small section will be okay. I'll remove if the copyright holder objects. . The toolbox looks to be narrower than I've seen previously and cannot be seen to the right of the driver's head. Keep your eyes pealed in the press for announcements from LRM about new kits. You may get what you've hoped for. Frank 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted March 28, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) Mention of B12s leads me on to something I haven't done for a long, long time..................... That is buy an RTR locomotive. That's not to say I steal them. And, in the case of the likes of Hornby''s latest Thompson Pacifics, those I received were in payment for my assisting Hornby in the development of the models. I similar arrangement existed in the case of Heljan's O2s. I'll usually use them as projects for 'improvement' (not that that suggests anything wrong with the product at source, more things like renumbering/renaming/detailing/weathering/etc). They'll often then be sold, with my making donations to CRUK from the proceeds. I rarely keep any RTR locos, then. So, why buy one, and why a Hornby B12/3? Well, firstly the incredibly good value offered by Kernow Models - £109.00, plus modest postage. I saw the advert in the latest BRM, phoned up on Friday, and received the model yesterday. I call that fantastic service. Thank you Kernow! Secondly, it's such a beautiful model. Now, it could be argued, with justification, that three B12/3s for Little Bytham are enough (two for the MR/M&GNR and one for the GN). I've built them from three different kits, but the lovely Hornby model proved too tempting (am I changing my spots?). Anyway, the new acquisition didn't remain as it was received for long, and this morning's work changed its identity. I foolishly pushed the loco in position for this shot, resulting in the odd rod position (it isn't derailed, either). Just few extra details added as well - front coupling, real coal, lamps, a crew................ Weathering awaits. I think this is an incredible model (the whistle has been straightened after I processed these pictures). It runs superbly, and I'm delighted. Out of (possible) interest, I've taken shots of the other Bytham B12/3s.................... Normally seen on the GN (but lifted 'up top' for these purposes), this is a Coopercraft B12/3 (one of only three known to have been built successfully - the other two have been on LB as well!). It's all my work. At the Warley Show in 2019, I bought this superannuated MacGowan B12/3 kit and built it shortly after. It really is a lumpen old thing. Despite not paying a great deal for the kit, by the time I'd factored in the cost of wheels and motor/gearbox, this old thing came out considerably more than my latest Hornby one! What's the term? A no-brainer? The only thing that can be said of this is 'it's all my work', but, seriously, it's far inferior to an RTR product costing much less. The 'dustbin of history' awaits! This is the only one which matches the Hornby B12/3. I built it from a PDK kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it (I think the subtle finish achieved by Ian is actually superior). What's staggering is that one could buy at least seven Hornby B12/3s for the price of this (the painting alone would be the same price as at least two!). So, does any of this waffle lead to a conclusion? Certainly not that I'm giving up kit-building (the Hornby B12/3 will probably be the last RTR loco I ever buy, 60 years after I bought my first Hornby B12/3). It's just a fair bit of food for thought.................................. Edited March 29, 2021 by Tony Wright typo error 30 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, 31A said: Thanks David; its a thing about the Hornby A4 that's always bugged me; I did put a bit on my layout thread a little while ago about how I did it: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83030-train-spotting-at-finsbury-square/page/29/ Ah I remember commenting on it on a previous occasion. Edited March 28, 2021 by davidw 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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