Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

Many thanks for the detective work regarding the bridge MALLARD had just come through in the picture.

 

I've written a piece on the world record holder for the forthcoming Smoke & Steam bookazine from BRM. I can now confirm the location, as well as the date and the make-up of the Saturday 'Lizzie'. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Tony Wright
to add something

[westerner]

Thought I'd post a reverse view of Blackney from the previous one. Again in B&W

 

[gordon s]

I've been trying to catalogue my railway stock for my wife, just in case things don't go to plan in the next few months. Of course I'm upbeat about my forthcoming surgery, but the last thing I want to do is leave her a massive problem and not knowing where to start. Apologies if this is slightly depressing, but sadly it's something we all have to face up to sooner than later.....

 

All the RTR stock is fairly easy to catalogue, but I felt more was needed for kit built stock.

 

Way back in 2005/6, I had a good job and commissioned Graham Varley to build some kits for me. Trying to provide descriptions of these is a bit of a task, but I'm getting there.

 

This is one of what I thought were a pair of K3/2's which still run beautifully some 16 years later.

 

 

I've spent the last hour or so ploughing through receipts etc to find a bit more info and now know from the receipt it was two kits plus two motors, 2 gearboxes, sets of nickel silver wheels and buffer sets. The receipt didn't mention who's kits they were, but I found two boxes in the loft. They are South Eastern Finecast, but this note on one of the boxes surprised me.

 

 

Not seen this before, so was a little surprised. I'm now going to try and find the second loco and work out what class it is as I now doubt it will be a K3/2 if the box note is correct.

 

Anyone come across this principle before or was it just South Eastern Finecast?

[Bucoops]

13 minutes ago, gordon s said:

I've been trying to catalogue my railway stock for my wife, just in case things don't go to plan in the next few months. Of course I'm upbeat about my forthcoming surgery, but the last thing I want to do is leave her a massive problem and not knowing where to start. Apologies if this is slightly depressing, but sadly it's something we all have to face up to sooner than later.....

 

All the RTR stock is fairly easy to catalogue, but I felt more was needed for kit built stock.

 

Way back in 2005/6, I had a good job and commissioned Graham Varley to build some kits for me. Trying to provide descriptions of these is a bit of a task, but I'm getting there.

 

This is one of what I thought were a pair of K3/2's which still run beautifully some 16 years later.

 

 

I've spent the last hour or so ploughing through receipts etc to find a bit more info and now know from the receipt it was two kits plus two motors, 2 gearboxes, sets of nickel silver wheels and buffer sets. The receipt didn't mention who's kits they were, but I found two boxes in the loft. They are South Eastern Finecast, but this note on one of the boxes surprised me.

 

 

Not seen this before, so was a little surprised. I'm now going to try and find the second loco and work out what class it is as I now doubt it will be a K3/2 if the box note is correct.

 

Anyone come across this principle before or was it just South Eastern Finecast?

 

I'm only aware of this one kit from one manufacturer - in other words the SE Finecast K3 short kit is I believe unique. It doesn't surprise me though as there are an awful lot of parts in the K3 kit due to the sheer number of variations the class had over its lifetime.

[gordon s]

Thanks Bucoops. I've not put my hands on the other loco, but managed to find a pic from 2005.

 

 

According to my ABC, 61954 is another K3/2. I feel a spot the difference competition coming on as the short kit kit label may suggest you can build another K3, but not necessarily another K3/2. Perhaps it's just worded ambiguously.....

Edited April 3, 2021 by gordon s

[Bucoops]

It looks like the part 2 was quite a broad cover going by https://www.lner.info/locos/K/k3k5.php

 

Quote

Each batch would show minor refinements, so between 1923 and 1935 each batch was classified chronologically by its part number, e.g.. the 1920/1 batch was K3/1, and the 1934/5 batch was K3/6. Due to the differences being deemed minor in nature, classes K3/4, K3/5, and K3/6 were merged in with K3/2 in 1935. The original ten K3/1s were built to the larger GNR loading gauge, but were reclassified as K3/2 when they were cut down to the Composite LNER loading gauge. The last K3/1 was cut down and reclassified in 1940. Usage of the K3/2 and K3/3 class parts was discontinued with Nationalisation in 1948.

 

So it's quite likely two /2s could be produced?

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, gordon s said:

Thanks Bucoops. I've not put my hands on the other loco, but managed to find a pic from 2005.

 

 

According to my ABC, 61954 is another K3/2. I feel a spot the difference competition coming on as the short kit kit label may suggest you can build another K3, but not necessarily another K3/2. Perhaps it's just worded ambiguously.....

Good afternoon Gordon,

 

The classification of the K3s is full of puzzles. 

 

What Graham has done is to produce two very accurate K3s (the sub-division is really irrelevant by BR days), using the SEF kit. 61826 represents one of the earlier-built locos, with RH drive and slightly shorter cab. 61954 is one of the most-numerous K3s (as modelled by Bachmann), with LH drive and larger cab with smaller side windows.

 

One gets four different cabs in the SEF kit, hence the idea of a 'short kit'. What it means is that one cannot build two identical K3s using a complete kit and a short kit. 

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

Kind regards and best wishes for your 'op'

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Carrying on with the DJH J50, which Gordon S so kindly donated................

 

 

The buffer beams are now in their rightful places (slightly inboard of the footplate, front and rear). 

 

I've also started fitting handrails and other details. Without being 'critical' of a first-time kit-builder's work, this illustrates a procedure which is best to follow; that is, do all soldering from the inside where one can, before the likes of the smokebox door and the tank tops go on. I've soldered the front, middle, smokebox and smokebox door handrails, as well as the smokebox lamp bracket from the outside out of necessity, and the tank-front steps. The cabside handrails have been soldered on from the inside - much easier. 

 

It's a shame you gave up with this Gordon; you were almost there.

 

It'll be finished before long...................

 

 

[Barry O]

6 hours ago, gordon s said:

Thanks Bucoops. I've not put my hands on the other loco, but managed to find a pic from 2005.

 

 

According to my ABC, 61954 is another K3/2. I feel a spot the difference competition coming on as the short kit kit label may suggest you can build another K3, but not necessarily another K3/2. Perhaps it's just worded ambiguously.....

Gordon

 

I have a full kit for sale on Ebay..it is one of the items not required for Carlisle. It does say in the kit you can buy the items required to turn the spare etched cab/ tender parts into another K3 but it doesn't give a sub class.. suppose it depends on what you build from the kit in the first place.

 

Graham did a lovely build and paint job on that loco (as he has done on other locos I have seen from him). Shame he only does 7mm stuff now due to his run in with a certain illness.

 

Could I suggest an excel spreadsheet with a link to a photo of what you are describing. If it is a kit included kit name, builder, motor, wheels, dcc fitted chip type and number and the painter's name.

 

Values could be anything at the moment as lockdown has seen a slight rebound in second hand auction prices. Mint, boxed RTR goes for daft prices if it is "special"

Never mind about a list for your good lady..it is one way of keeping insurance values correct, reminds you of the stuff which is hiďden away and also allows you to plan what else you need to cover the needs of the layout.

 

Baz

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Barry O
fingers and thumb on my phone key board

[Bernard Lamb]

Tip for the day.

For weathering to look realistic it needs to be kept subtle and not be overdone.

Bernard

 

[gordon s]

47 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Carrying on with the DJH J50, which Gordon S so kindly donated................

 

 

The buffer beams are now in their rightful places (slightly inboard of the footplate, front and rear). 

 

I've also started fitting handrails and other details. Without being 'critical' of a first-time kit-builder's work, this illustrates a procedure which is best to follow; that is, do all soldering from the inside where one can, before the likes of the smokebox door and the tank tops go on. I've soldered the front, middle, smokebox and smokebox door handrails, as well as the smokebox lamp bracket from the outside out of necessity, and the tank-front steps. The cabside handrails have been soldered on from the inside - much easier. 

 

It's a shame you gave up with this Gordon; you were almost there.

 

It'll be finished before long...................

 

 

 

Thanks Tony, that all makes so much sense, but as we've commented before, instructions are often written by someone who may not be an experienced kit builder or could be set in their ways. I have my own way of building turnouts which seems to be out of line with recognised methods, but it works very well for me, which only goes to show there are many ways to achieve an end product and if it works for you, stick with it.

 

I shall really look forward to seeing the finished article as I know you will make a super job of it and hopefully it will raise a few bob for a good cause.

[andytrains]

1 hour ago, Barry O said:

Gordon

 

I have a full kit for sale on Ebay..it is one of thebitems not required for Carlisle. It does say in the kit you can buy the items required to turn the spare etched cab/ tender parts into another K3 but it doesn't give a sub class.. suppose it depends on what you build from thenkit in the first place.

 

Graham did a lovely build and paint job on that loco (as he has donebon other locos I have seen from him. Shame he only does 7mm stuff now due to his run in with a certain illness.

 

Could I suggest an excel spreadsheet with a link to anphoto of what you are describing. If it is a kit incled kit name, builder, motor, wheels, dcc fitted chip type and number and the painter's name.

 

Values could be anything at the moment as lockdown has seen a slight rebound in second han auction prices. Mint, boxed RTR goes for daft prices if it is "special"

Never mind about a list for your good lady..it is one way of keeping insurance values correct, reminds you of the stuff which is hiďden away and also alows you to plan what else you need to cover the needs of the layout.

 

Baz

 

Did not the LNER sub class some or perhaps all of their locos by tender types aswell as details differences?

I may be wrong.

It would be the first unpteenth time!

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, andytrains said:

Did not the LNER sub class some or perhaps all of their locos by tender types aswell as details differences?

I may be wrong.

It would be the first unpteenth time!

Though at first glance, the LNER classified its locos in the most logical way of the 'Big Four', the problem is the inconsistencies.

 

You're right; some classes were sub-divided by tenders (or even if tenders had water scoops!), yet, on other occasions different classes were listed by what appears to be a sub-division. For instance, the Thompson A2/2s, A2/1s and A2/3s were three different classes, yet, where a class really should have been sub-dived, the A4s, they're all listed as one, even though there were at least three different tender types and, up until 1957/1959, some had single chimneys. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Northmoor]

48 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Though at first glance, the LNER classified its locos in the most logical way of the 'Big Four', the problem is the inconsistencies.

 

You're right; some classes were sub-divided by tenders (or even if tenders had water scoops!), yet, on other occasions different classes were listed by what appears to be a sub-division. For instance, the Thompson A2/2s, A2/1s and A2/3s were three different classes, yet, where a class really should have been sub-dived, the A4s, they're all listed as one, even though there were at least three different tender types and, up until 1957/1959, some had single chimneys. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I can't think of too many classes (certainly outside the LNER) which are sub-divided because of varied tenders and single/double chimneys.  None of the Standards were but neither were GWR classes like the Castles.  The Standard 4 4-6-0s had, I think, three different tenders and either single, tall double or short double chimneys.  There would have been about six combinations in a class of 80 locos.

 

Then consider the Southern, where the Bullied Light Pacifics were all considered the same class, even when some but not all were completely rebuilt with different valve gear and removal of streamlined casing....

 

In the "modern" era, the opposite happened with the Class 90 electrics, originally to be classified 87/2.  This changed before entering traffic, perhaps because with completely different body shape (although very similar internally to the last (thyristor-controlled) Class 87, they were considered different.  Perhaps it is like UK military aircraft, where new variants are often given a new name; this is often thought to help justify the enormous expense to the Treasury - "But Minister, it is a completely new aircraft/train, so different it has been given a new name/number".

 

Rob

[Bucoops]

The stand out one with tenders for me is the J39. Part one had 3500 gallon, part 2 4200 gallon, and part 3 whatever they could find of a NER flavour.

[Tony Wright]

This morning saw my completion of the donated DJH J50......................

 

 

Other than the removal of any excess solder, no cleaning up has taken place. A good wash awaits, and after that it'll be painting (into BR condition). 

 

I'm holding on to this until lockdown restrictions are lifted, and, when visitors are next at Little Bytham, we'll see who's interested (I'll be making a donation to CRUK in the interim). 

 

Considering that most of what's in the picture is the work of a beginner to kit-building, I think it's turned out rather well. 

 

Which leaves me to ponder how 'beginners'' kits like these will get on in future. Gordon S decided that kit-building was not for him (though he'd done the most-difficult bit; getting it to run, beautifully). I have no idea what the kit itself cost, but I know the DJH motor/gearbox is over £70.00. Markits drivers are now in excess of £6.00 each, plus there are the axles and crankpins.

 

What does an RTR Hornby J50 cost? Fully-finished, considerably less than this. That said, it comes back again to a personal approach to this hobby (and there are many, many approaches). It's not taken me long to complete this little loco, and painting won't take too long, either. I've enjoyed the process, so what price on that? By all means buy and enjoy RTR items (the standard has never been higher) and if one likes commissioning work, then, please, carry on - highly-desirable possessions are the result. 

 

However, and this thread returns to this aspect time after time.......................  Despite the greater cost and the fact that something like this J50 has to be made, it has a certain 'something' which means, at least to me, that it's much more interesting.

 

Thanks again, Gordon..........................

 

 

[gordon s]

Thanks Tony, I’m pleased that you offered to complete this kit and very happy to see the nearly finished article. I did look at the current pricing when talking about J50’s a few weeks ago. From memory the kit plus wheels, motor and gearbox came out somewhere around £280. At the same time I could buy another J50 from Hattons for £69.....

 

Of course when I bought the kit, the Hornby model wasn’t available, so there really wasn’t an alternative other than a Lima body on a Bachmann pannier chassis.

 

Can’t wait to see the finished and painted article......

Edited April 4, 2021 by gordon s

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, gordon s said:

Thanks Tony, I’m pleased that you offered to complete this kit  and very happy to see the nearly finished article. I did look at the current pricing when talking about J50’s a few weeks ago. From memory the kit plus wheels, motor and gearbox came out somewhere around £230. At the same time I could buy another J50 from Hattons for £69.....

 

Of course when I bought the kit, the Hornby model wasn’t available, so there really wasn’t an alternative other than a Lima body on a Bachmann pannier chassis.

 

Can’t wait to see the finished and painted article......

£230.00?

 

That's a substantial amount, Gordon,

 

Which makes your donation of it even more altruistic.

 

It's now painted and, after fully-drying, I'll complete it by tomorrow. 

 

And, £69.00 for a Hornby J50! Thus, unless one likes building locos then the (great) saving between the RTR one or a kit means that the DJH offering is probably moribund. A shame in a way, but from a monetary point a view, there is no necessity for the 'personal' approach to obtain a J50. 

 

It's actually the third J50 I've 'built'. The first, many years ago, was a K's body-line kit mounted on top of a Hornby-Dublo R1 chassis. Where it is now is anyone's guess. The second, much more recent was as a result of my stripping an etched brass one in order to remove a really grotty paint finish. It came from the estate of a deceased modeller, and I thought I'd get more for it were painted better. I made an assumption (big mistake!). Etched brass; how is that best to assemble? Solder, of course. Wrong! I ended up with a kit, because it had been superglued together! I rebuilt it and painted it, or maybe the friend who bought it painted it. I can't recall now, but who superglues etched brass kits together? Not me. 

 

And, then there's yours.

 

Many thanks again.

 

The Hornby J50 is certainly a good model, and fantastic value for money.................

 

 

 

This is one of the later-built examples, with hopper bunker, group standard buffers and LH drive. 

 

 

About four years ago, a friend brought one which he'd weathered; rather well. 

 

 

I can't recall who brought this example, nor its origin. Could it be K's? It, too, has a hopper bunker, but it's not tall enough. 

 

Anyone else got examples of J50s? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[gordon s]

I did correct the £230 price once I had looked up the DJH website. At current pricing the kit is £143 plus £82 for the motor/gearbox and £54 for the Markits/Romford wheels, all of which takes it to £280. Of course I bought mine several years ago was it was considerably cheaper. As I said Hattons mailed me offering J50’s a few weeks back at £69 and it’s still at that price, albeit an early crest version. I was told you could buy different motors, gearboxes and wheels from other sources and save some cash, but I doubt it would have made a huge difference.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/164411/hornby_r3407_class_j50_0_6_0t_68959_in_br_black_with_early_emblem/stockdetail.aspx

 

I do have a late crest Hornby one and it runs smoothly and pulled nearly 50 wagons without a problem from a standing start.

 

Based on that pricing differential I did ask the question re kits, but of course everyone who enjoys building them said it’s much more than just opening a box and you always have the pleasure of knowing ‘I built that’.

 

 

[60027Merlin]

With two Thompson Pacific kits awaiting painting but unable to be started until the weather is better for outside spraying here are a couple of the Hornby models now done up and running in today. No sign of the Arctic winds disappearing so patience continues to the fore.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, gordon s said:

I did correct the £230 price once I had looked up the DJH website. At current pricing the kit is £143 plus £82 for the motor/gearbox and £54 for the Markits/Romford wheels, all of which takes it to £280. Of course I bought mine several years ago was it was considerably cheaper. As I said Hattons mailed me offering J50’s a few weeks back at £69 and it’s still at that price, albeit an early crest version. I was told you could buy different motors, gearboxes and wheels from other sources and save some cash, but I doubt it would have made a huge difference.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/164411/hornby_r3407_class_j50_0_6_0t_68959_in_br_black_with_early_emblem/stockdetail.aspx

 

I do have a late crest Hornby one and it runs smoothly and pulled nearly 50 wagons without a problem from a standing start.

 

Based on that pricing differential I did ask the question re kits, but of course everyone who enjoys building them said it’s much more than just opening a box and you always have the pleasure of knowing ‘I built that’.

 

 

Thanks for the update, Gordon,

 

£280.00! That's a bit of a stiff amount, especially compared with the Hatton's price. Yes, four RTR J50s for the price of one kit-built one. 

 

However, as you say, just 'opening the box' can never give the same satisfaction as having made/modified something oneself. I don't mean just locos. No, all the practical disciplines making this hobby so fascinating. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Tony Wright]

14 minutes ago, 60027Merlin said:

With two Thompson Pacific kits awaiting painting but unable to be started until the weather is better for outside spraying here are a couple of the Hornby models now done up and running in today. No sign of the Arctic winds disappearing so patience continues to the fore.

 

 

Good evening Eric,

 

Very effective! Thanks for showing us. 

 

You seem to have 'brought out' the green very well. Much more convincing than the rather flat original finish. 

 

I don't have AIRBORNE (which I never saw), but I do have HYCILLA (which I did). 

 

It's representative of the same time period; still with rimmed chimney, original-style boiler, AWS and later BR crest on the tender......................

 

 

 

 

 

My creation is rather less 'noble' than yours. I built it from a DJH kit, but the superlative painting is the work of Ian Rathbone. 

 

I wonder how the advent of RTR Thompson Pacifics has impacted on sales of DJH kits for the same. Substantially?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Theakerr]

I have just acquired a sort of built DJH J50  at a price well below the Hornby version.  It is complete with wheels and the biggest DJH motor and gearbox i have ever seen.  Whilst the body will probably require a complete tear down the chassis seems to be very well put together although some solder strengthening will be done.  Next winters project along with a C12

[Theakerr]

Re the whistle information request for my J6, I was in the process of placing an order with British Model Trains here in the GWN and it turned out he had a Markits NE whistle in stock- except that he probably doesn't now as it is on its way to me.  Thanks

[Jack P]

3 hours ago, gordon s said:

Based on that pricing differential I did ask the question re kits, but of course everyone who enjoys building them said it’s much more than just opening a box and you always have the pleasure of knowing ‘I built that’.

 

I also think that where there is a new-ish tooling of a RTR loco available, I would rather invest my time in kit-building something that isn't available RTR. Lots of the new tooling locos out there are starting to be not only better than what the average kit-builder could achieve, but fundamentally better than the kits that are available, and in some instances, the only option (as there is no kit available).

 

Most of my RTR locos are pretty heavily modified anyway, which still gives me a degree of 'I did that' satisfaction.