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I saw Airborne many times on Tyneside. Fortunately not in the state of the last sighting, abandoned and awaiting the end on the scrap line at Blaydon.

1952160823_Book63_5A.jpg.3f2bee1b8a346979193b8e5bfd4d50f6.jpg

 

Surprisingly It still had its nameplate intact.  

 

ArthurK

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

£280.00! That's a bit of a stiff amount, especially compared with the Hatton's price. Yes, four RTR J50s for the price of one kit-built one. 

 

However, as you say, just 'opening the box' can never give the same satisfaction as having made/modified something oneself. I don't mean just locos. No, all the practical disciplines making this hobby so fascinating. 

 

It's enough to make you start scratch building!      Even though the price of raw material has gone up you could get a lot of J50 bodies out of a modest amount of material.    Now where did I put my Guy Williams books .....

 

Being completely out of touch with the price of most things in the hobby these days but those gearboxes that were mentioned sound particularly expensive.  Are they really good value for money? :unknw_mini:

 

Alan

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I made a pair of K's  J50 bodies on scratch built chassis. 1973 I think. They ran really well until the motors became unreliable. Since replaced by two Hornby examples which will have three bunker handrails added shortly (68984 and 68988). The Hornby models run beautifully.

 

Edited by copleyhill007
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4 hours ago, Jack P said:

 

I also think that where there is a new-ish tooling of a RTR loco available, I would rather invest my time in kit-building something that isn't available RTR. Lots of the new tooling locos out there are starting to be not only better than what the average kit-builder could achieve, but fundamentally better than the kits that are available, and in some instances, the only option (as there is no kit available).

 

Most of my RTR locos are pretty heavily modified anyway, which still gives me a degree of 'I did that' satisfaction.

Exactly my approach too, Jack - not just locos of course.

 

Time is the scarce resource for most of us. I buy RTR when I can to leave time to make the things I can't buy (not least the layout itself!). Having said that, money is also a scarce resource so I can't afford to get others to build things for me either.

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10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The J50 is all but finished!

 

1922913006_J5007.jpg.7179e55b38467fcbfa744e9a8e79bd5e.jpg

 

I'm awaiting the front numberplate, and, in my rush to take its picture, the Glue 'n' Glaze hasn't quite set in the spectacles.

 

1438602448_J5008.jpg.b8c67ad4ef1e90879b1821113da7fad8.jpg

 

Just visible are the rear spectacle guards. They're not supplied in the kit, but came from a fret, ex-Dave Cleal, I think. 

 

I thinks it's turned out OK, though if I were to attempt to build one on commission, I doubt if I'd have any takers. £280.00, plus my time. Over £580.00 for an 0-6-0T? I think not!

 

Anyway, that's not the issue here. It's been donated and I'm donating my time, all proceeds going to CRUK. I'll not weather this; whoever buys it can then please him/herself.

 

 


Many thanks for donating your time on this model, Tony. As expected, you have done an excellent job in finishing a half built kit, particularly from a total kit beginner who no doubt made many mistakes along the way. I’m pleased to hear the chassis ran well as I can relate to the mechanical bits and soldering brass in alignment is something I can cope with. 
 

I totally agree with the sentiment that kits are for those loco’s and stock not available from the RTR manufacturers, but at the time I bought the kit a J50 was not available. As always it’s Sod’s law that you buy a kit and then someone announces a new model.......:D

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Building kit locos was one of my fears years ago, until I bought two DVD’s they were the right tracks number 1&2 with Tony Wright building 3 kits. 
My uncle wanted a model of Bacup shed in the L&Y era “brilliant I thought” until i realised that I had to build most of the locos to go with it. Craftsman kits and London road models was sourced and built but not without dramas. then one day I wanted a Duke of Gloucester loco to run on my layout, so I found one on an Auction site and won the Kit, bought the DJH motor and gearbox to suit. 


now because of building the locos for my uncle and the books, dvds and advise from the likes of Tony Wright, Mike Edge, Dave Franks and A few more I enjoy building locomotive kits. 


better still was winning the best kit built locomotive and the best modified rtr Loco  at Bristol show in 2018. 

 

I also think that they have helped me to understand that time and patience pays off. 
Since building kits I have took my time, not just in building kits but in my job and also in life, so thank you everyone who has helped me to take my time and not to jump in. 
 

Building models what run and look nice have kept my interest going especially after the past 12 months. 
 

Mark T
 

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11 hours ago, PupCam said:

 

It's enough to make you start scratch building!      Even though the price of raw material has gone up you could get a lot of J50 bodies out of a modest amount of material.    Now where did I put my Guy Williams books .....

 

Being completely out of touch with the price of most things in the hobby these days but those gearboxes that were mentioned sound particularly expensive.  Are they really good value for money? :unknw_mini:

 

Alan

Good morning Alan,

 

Regarding how expensive the DJH motor/gearbox combos are and whether they're good value for money could be open to debate. However, what cannot be disputed is how quiet, smooth and powerful they are, allied to their ease of installation. Granted, the 'boxes are quite large and difficult to disguise in smaller prototypes. 

 

Some time ago, DJH used to sell the motor/gearboxes as kits. They were less expensive. Unfortunately, it would appear that too many folk messed up the making of them, resulting in complaints. Complainants invariably blamed the product, never ever considering their own incompetence. Now, without being too pompous, I've built scores of them with no trouble at all; just care in assembly at every stage - common sense, really. 

 

In the end, DJH gave up and now only sell them as complete units (or if they do sell them as kits, they're more expensive than made-up!). Selling them complete means they have to be assembled in Consett by a skilled practitioner; that has a cost imperative. 

 

I know many will throw their hands up in horror at the notion of shelling out some £80.00 for a prime drive. That said, that's less than second-hand Portescaps cost, and the DJH ones are quieter and, in my experience, no less able for powering great big locos, hauling heavy trains at speed. 

 

Of course, the cynics will say I have a vested interest. After all, I test-build for DJH and test-installed the two latest AM9 and AM10 motor/gearbox combinations. I put the former in an A1 and the latter in a K1. For those who remain cynical, both those locos have appeared of late in moving footage of Little Bytham, so they can form their own opinions. Both run superbly.

 

I might add that I have over 120 of these DJH units in the locos I've built, both for myself and for customers, all working to complete satisfaction. As, I hope, the recent footage of Little Bytham illustrates.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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Good morning Tony,

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

In the end, DJH gave up and now only sell them as complete units (or if they do sell them as kits, they're more expensive than made-up!). Selling them complete means they have to be assembled in Consett by a skilled practitioner; that has a cost imperative. 

Indeed it does, which is why I suppose their are relatively few people who can actually make a living as professional model builders as even at quite modest hourly rates the total cost of a model soon exceeds the majorities available budget and that's before that essential of any business, profit is taken into consideration.   Indeed in another context (and without going into any details here)  I used to have to continuously remind people at my former place of work that we could not possibly achieve the same results as "shed engineers" who invested hundreds of hours of in projects for fun at an hourly rate of £0/hr because our engineering rate was not £0/hr (even though it may have seemed like it when I checked my salary note).

 

13 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I know many will throw their hands up in horror at the notion of shelling out some £80.00 for a prime drive. That said, that's less than second-hand Portescaps cost, and the DJH ones are quieter and, in my experience, no less able for powering great big locos, hauling heavy trains at speed. 

Yes, put like that if I remember back to when David and I were rather more active as (novice) S4 modellers (that'll be 25+ years ago then) a new Portescap was perhaps £25-£30 and you just bought them because that seemed to be the thing to do.

 

Anyway, in the true spirit of your thread you may be pleased to hear that I have actually built a railway related model for the first time in decades albeit as befits my increasing years and failing eyesight a 7mm 16T mineral wagon.    I thought I'd have a go at the "heavily weathered look and followed one of methods Martin Welch described in his book the Art of Weathering.    I don't know whether (sorry) I've pulled it off or not but, I have to say I enjoyed getting my railway modelling hands dirty once more which I think is one of your underlying themes.

 

Hopefully when your initial surge of post-lockdown visitors has passed the Mimram Modellers might be able to make a return visit to LB?

 

Alan

 

16T Mineral.jpg

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Much depends on  individual perceptions of the value and availability of time. I find that it is perfectly possible, with care, (skill?) and time to assemble even a multi-stage gear and motor system from scratch so that it runs smoothly and quietly without absorbing lots of power, but others might think that they either have far more valuable uses for the time that it can take, or that they simply don't have the time to mess around and that an £80 ready made unit is a better option.

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9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Exactly my approach too, Jack - not just locos of course.

 

Time is the scarce resource for most of us. I buy RTR when I can to leave time to make the things I can't buy (not least the layout itself!). Having said that, money is also a scarce resource so I can't afford to get others to build things for me either.

 

That's my approach as well but I do feel a little 'underwhelmed' - if thats the right word - when the Royal Duchy or CRE goes by and it's all RTR. One day I will get round to weathering them. My favourite train on my own railway is the 'perishables' which is a 25 - 30 odd rake of kit built or modified RTR cattle wagons and vent vans. 

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15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Eric,

 

Very effective! Thanks for showing us. 

 

You seem to have 'brought out' the green very well. Much more convincing than the rather flat original finish. 

 

I don't have AIRBORNE (which I never saw), but I do have HYCILLA (which I did). 

 

It's representative of the same time period; still with rimmed chimney, original-style boiler, AWS and later BR crest on the tender......................

 

1902594853_60516HYCILLA.jpg.9abca2a2e3cde36d381786083331d459.jpg

 

689662274_DJHA2360516HYCILLA01.jpg.20fdc3e60a59afbe79b7c3b9d2bb8011.jpg

 

16112195_DJHA2360516HYCILLA02.jpg.696e9b3081f45ff3fccba183628eff7e.jpg

 

903075330_RM011HYCILLA.jpg.6bb1b10e6978c7cb0c29c567f8a170b1.jpg

 

My creation is rather less 'noble' than yours. I built it from a DJH kit, but the superlative painting is the work of Ian Rathbone. 

 

I wonder how the advent of RTR Thompson Pacifics has impacted on sales of DJH kits for the same. Substantially?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thanks Tony.

 

Your Hycilla really looks the part and the finish is swish, looking like it is just back from Doncaster Works. I note in Yeadons that it was there for a General Repair in 1958 which suits your time frame for the layout.

 

I would imagine that the sales of these DJH kits will decrease as has happened with so many other kits which were the “victims” of new r-t-r equivalents. There are still a lot of classes not available in r-t-r or in kit form but it can be to be too much of a risk for a kit manufacturer to undertake a new tooling only to have an r-t-r model released later on which then eats into future sales of the kit and the projected financial return.

 

Eric

 

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13 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

the Royal Duchy or CRE goes by and it's all RTR

Mine too, but at least I've added the nameboards!

 

I don't feel underwhelmed at all, because it really is the CRE, the Royal Duchy, the Cornishman, the TPO, or whatever - it says so in the sequence so it must be true.

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2 hours ago, PupCam said:

Good morning Tony,

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Indeed it does, which is why I suppose their are relatively few people who can actually make a living as professional model builders as even at quite modest hourly rates the total cost of a model soon exceeds the majorities available budget and that's before that essential of any business, profit is taken into consideration.   Indeed in another context (and without going into any details here)  I used to have to continuously remind people at my former place of work that we could not possibly achieve the same results as "shed engineers" who invested hundreds of hours of in projects for fun at an hourly rate of £0/hr because our engineering rate was not £0/hr (even though it may have seemed like it when I checked my salary note).

 

Yes, put like that if I remember back to when David and I were rather more active as (novice) S4 modellers (that'll be 25+ years ago then) a new Portescap was perhaps £25-£30 and you just bought them because that seemed to be the thing to do.

 

Anyway, in the true spirit of your thread you may be pleased to hear that I have actually built a railway related model for the first time in decades albeit as befits my increasing years and failing eyesight a 7mm 16T mineral wagon.    I thought I'd have a go at the "heavily weathered look and followed one of methods Martin Welch described in his book the Art of Weathering.    I don't know whether (sorry) I've pulled it off or not but, I have to say I enjoyed getting my railway modelling hands dirty once more which I think is one of your underlying themes.

 

Hopefully when your initial surge of post-lockdown visitors has passed the Mimram Modellers might be able to make a return visit to LB?

 

Alan

 

16T Mineral.jpg

Good afternoon Alan,

 

Please arrange a visit for after lockdown restrictions are eased. It'll be delightful to see you again. Best get dates arranged ASAP. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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2 hours ago, gr.king said:

Much depends on  individual perceptions of the value and availability of time. I find that it is perfectly possible, with care, (skill?) and time to assemble even a multi-stage gear and motor system from scratch so that it runs smoothly and quietly without absorbing lots of power, but others might think that they either have far more valuable uses for the time that it can take, or that they simply don't have the time to mess around and that an £80 ready made unit is a better option.

I think 'skill' is the principal factor here, Graeme. 

 

Many don't have such an essential prerequisite for creating things for themselves and either rely entirely on RTR or get others to do their modelling for them. I suppose it's dependent on resources to a great extent.

 

In my own case, 'time' is a principal factor. By the time I'd made-up a motor/gearbox combination successfully (which does require care and skill), accounting for the time taken, it might well end up being more expensive to the customer than if I bought a ready-made one at £80.00. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, 60027Merlin said:

 

Thanks Tony.

 

Your Hycilla really looks the part and the finish is swish, looking like it is just back from Doncaster Works. I note in Yeadons that it was there for a General Repair in 1958 which suits your time frame for the layout.

 

I would imagine that the sales of these DJH kits will decrease as has happened with so many other kits which were the “victims” of new r-t-r equivalents. There are still a lot of classes not available in r-t-r or in kit form but it can be to be too much of a risk for a kit manufacturer to undertake a new tooling only to have an r-t-r model released later on which then eats into future sales of the kit and the projected financial return.

 

Eric

 

Thanks Eric,

 

Though there are still a lot of classes not available RTR, that number is shrinking with every latest piece of RTR wonderment (I'm talking OO here). Just think of our favourite types, particularly the RA9 stuff; only the A1/1 and the A2/1 to go. The other 'Big Four' big types are even more-represented by RTR than those of the ex-LNER. Other than PRINCESS ANNE for the LMR, is there anything left to do RTR? Anything ex-SR or ex-GWR? 

 

What's left are the rather more esoteric types, which might not have the same appeal or popularity as to make them feasible for kit manufacturers. 

 

I don't know, and this has been discussed at length before. Perhaps what's really going is that 'uniqueness', which only something which has been made possesses. Just think, if Stoke Summit were still out on the road, the questions asked might well be along the lines of..............'Is that Hornby?'. 'Is that Bachmann?'. 'Is that Heljan?'. And so on; previously questions which would never have been asked.........................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

is there anything left to do RTR? Anything ex-SR or ex-GWR? 

 

There's a vast range of prototypes not done in RTR which are really essential if you want a realistic range of locomotives - above all for the LNER. Where are all those ex-NER, ex-GER, ex-GNR, ex-GCR classes that are essential if you're modelling any line set in the relevant areas of the Eastern or North Eastern region in the 50s? Looking through my Summer 1958 ABC: Q6 - 120 engines; J6 - 98; J11 - 82; J28 - 50; J27 - 115; J67/J69 - 89; N5 - 46 to mention just the most numerous non-Scottish classes.

Edited by Compound2632
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8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The J50 made its debut on Little Bytham this morning..............

 

2078952141_J5011.jpg.02534da54263f7bbceebba7d02e70292.jpg

 

Trying to be dispassionate and not be critical of a beginner's work, there's no way that this is 'superior' to the Hornby RTR J50. In fact, it's probably 'inferior', but that's not really the point. This has been made, it's unique and represents more than just 'purchasing power', even though, all in, it'll be more expensive than the RTR equivalent. Much more! 

 

 

 

Please excuse a slightly cheeky question.

What is the provenance of the Cattle Wagon behind the J50's smokebox?

 

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55 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

There's a vast range of prototypes not done in RTR which are really essential if you want a realistic range of locomotives - above all for the LNER. Where are all those ex-NER, ex-GER, ex-GNR, ex-GCR classes that are essential if you're modelling any line set in the relevant areas of the Eastern or North Eastern region in the 50s? Looking through my Summer 1958 ABC: Q6 - 120 engines; J6 - 98; J11 - 82; J28 - 50; J72 - 115; J67/J69 - 89; N5 - 46 to mention just the most numerous non-Scottish classes.

Err, Bachmann make an extremely good J72 and if they still work (many don't), S/H Mainline ones are available since they were introduced in 1981.

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