Wright writes.....

[Staffordshire]

    How about one of the High Footplate Caprotti  Black 5's ??

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

 

 

Tony,

 

I am very fond of J50s. Some people think they're ugly, but I rather like the brutish looks and I've developed quite a collection so I couldn't resist an invitation like that. It's a bit delayed as I've been away for a couple of days, but here goes. 

 

 

This one is the old Lima model, detailed and converted to a J50/4 using a kit (maybe Jackson Evans?) and put on a Bachmann Pannier chassis. It was my first J50 and I'm still rather fond of it despite the Hornby ones being superior models.

 

 

This is my favourite. A J50/2 which I bought off eBay as a ready built white metal kit on a Hornby Dublo chassis for c.£30. It's now got a Bachmann Pannier chassis and Youchoos sound project and is a joy to run. It does the 'Gresley Jn' gas trip on my layout and sees a lot of use on our club exhibition layout, Oakbourne.

 

 

This is another eBay white metal kit purchase. This is still on its Hornby Dublo chassis although re-wheeled with Romford wheels. I was planning to repaint this to BR condition and then the Hornby one came along, so it's stayed like I bought it. It will probably go back on eBay at some point.

 

 

I also have three Hornby versions, bought as they became progressively cheaper and I couldn't resist! This is the only one I've weathered and it gets used from time to time. The other two are still waiting to be commissioned as I'm struggling to find a use for them all. They are lovely models. As was discussed recently, it doesn't seem that J50s went north of Hornsey very often so it's hard to justify them on my Hatfield area layout. If and when I ever build my Kings Cross layout, then they will definitely have a role, both for ECS and for inter-regional goods emerging from Hotel Curve.

 

Finally I have an O gauge version which I'm reliably informed is built from a CCW kit. This was bought as a rather tired BR liveried example but for O gauge I model the inter war years, so had to backdate this to LNER livery which I've recently finished. The weathering still needs a bit of blending in.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

Very nice Andy,

 

Thanks for showing us.

 

You'll have to alter the dart on the O Gauge J50's 'door. It's not 'locked' in that position.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[FarrMan]

2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Some people think they're ugly,

I know that I am!

 

Lloyd

[thegreenhowards]

46 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Very nice Andy,

 

Thanks for showing us.

 

You'll have to alter the dart on the O Gauge J50's 'door. It's not 'locked' in that position.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I believe that’s how you tell it’s a CCW kit. I’m aware if the correction needed, but I’m still working out O gauge component suppliers. I think it will have to wait until I can get to an 0 gauge show.

[Tony Wright]

With GWR 'Saints' and 'Stars' being mentioned, I've dipped into my photo library but could only find images of the latter.

 

Both are Hornby RTR.

 

This one seems to have lost its smokebox door dart.

 

 

Are these good models? 

 

 

[Denbridge]

4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

With GWR 'Saints' and 'Stars' being mentioned, I've dipped into my photo library but could only find images of the latter.

 

Both are Hornby RTR.

 

This one seems to have lost its smokebox door dart.

 

 

Are these good models? 

 

 

They are very nice models, though having had a look at one of mine over the weekend, I'm mindful of how much Hornby tooling has improved in just a few years. Some moulded on details that nowadays would be seperately fitted. Still, nothing that a knife and some work wont put right.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Tony/Iain 

 

the owner of Midsomer Norton and Welton, Tony Sullivan called me today to provide an answer to the layout's location and some information about SDJR No. 72 as featured in the photograph.

 

After retiring the layout from the exhibition circuit it was put into storage after Tony moved house. Unfortunately the garage in which it was stored suffered from a water leak which caused irreparable damage to the baseboards and so had to be scrapped. The buildings were recovered and are now on another, smaller layout.

 

S&DJR No. 72 can now be seen on Chris Challis's layout Cheddar. It was built from an Alan Gibson kit for a Midland Railway M Class loco. I can't add anything to that, the MR 0-6-0s convoluted story being a complete a complete mystery for someone used to the LNWR.

 

Jol

 

 

[TrevorP1]

For what it's worth, this is my Star. The weathering is by TMC to photos supplied. Only the crew, coal and coal pick are my contribution! It runs well and will happily pull 10 Bachmann Mk1s - although that is more than I can run it with. I noticed the other day that it too has lost it's smokebox door handles, I'll replace them with Wizard versions when I next order from them.

 

Princess Charlotte was Laira's last Star and I understand that one of it's regular turns was over the Southern route when Southern crews learned the western route and vice versa.

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by TrevorP1
typo

[bbishop]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But why were such long tanks necessary, with the obstruction of access to the motion? 

I've studied this from an LSWR point of view.  The LSWR had a number of tank locomotives spare after the 1915 electrification scheme, then sold 50 Adams goods locos to the War Department in 1917.  The tank locos picked up the slack in rural areas; but particularly around London, they borrowed tender locos from the GNR and MR and recommissioned some antique Beattie goods locos.  A possible reason could have been a paucity of water columns?  Bill

[Tony Wright]

Another 100 pages achieved......

 

Thanks to all contributors for keeping this thread so active and interesting. 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I can't add anything to that, the MR 0-6-0s convoluted story being a complete a complete mystery for someone used to the LNWR.

 

Pretty straightforward to most folk. He's just been lulled into complacency by 500 coal engines, 300 coal tanks, 310 cauliflowers, and 943 DXs - such tedious uniformity! Though to liven things up, 500 of those DXs became SDXs. They don't deal in small change, these Crewe types.

 

It has to be said that Webb's very best engines were a class of only ten.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Compound2632
Too many "though"s.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, TrevorP1 said:

For what it's worth, this is my Star. The weathering is by TMC to photos supplied. Only the crew, coal and coal pick are my contribution! It runs well and will happily pull 10 Bachmann Mk1s - although that is more than I can run it with. I noticed the other day that it too has lost it's smokebox door handles, I'll replace them with Wizard versions when I next order from them.

 

Princess Charlotte was Laira's last Star and I understand that one of it's regular turns was over the Southern route when Southern crews learned the western route and vice versa.

 

 

 

It looks a lovely model.

 

One thing which continues to intrigue me is the position of the outside cylinders on GW four-cylinder locos; really far back, their rears adjacent to the leading drivers (the same as on the 'Princess Royals'). Exactly the same positioning as on the Thompson LNER Pacifics.

 

As far as I'm aware, nobody is critical of the aesthetics of this arrangement on the Swindon products, but the Thompson big locos are frequently criticised because of this, with frequent comments such as ungainly, unbalanced and awkward. Could it be it's because the bogie on the latter type is pushed much further forward, it having 'only' three big cylinders? Meaning that they're too wide a diameter for the rear bogie wheels to sit inside them. It's not the positioning of the outside cylinders which is 'wrong', just the positioning of the bogie. Also, the resulting short connecting rods have been a cause of criticism, but they certainly didn't seem to hamper the 'Castles' and 'Kings'. 

 

Speaking of Edward Thompson, I'm just reviewing the latest book on his life and work by Tim Hillier-Graves, published by Pen and Sword. It's very comprehensive and very interesting, and sheds a more-kindly light on the man than many other works.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robmcg]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

With GWR 'Saints' and 'Stars' being mentioned, I've dipped into my photo library but could only find images of the latter.

 

Both are Hornby RTR.

 

This one seems to have lost its smokebox door dart.

 

 

Are these good models? 

 

 

 

I think they are lovely models, but much criticism since release for poor assembly of some, solid cab side handrail , a left over from the design clever debacle, and most were fitted with 12-spoke front wheels, should be 10. 

 

As with some other Hornby RTR engines, lovely if you have a good one, and even better if you weather, or add and embellish.

 

Or in my case photo-edit.

 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

One thing which continues to intrigue me is the position of the outside cylinders on GW four-cylinder locos; really far back, their rears adjacent to the leading drivers (the same as on the 'Princess Royals'). Exactly the same positioning as on the Thompson LNER Pacifics.

 

Divided drive with a desire to have the connecting rods the same length inside and out, to balance the reciprocating masses? So the centres of the cylinders have to be set the same distance apart as the two driven axles. In Thompson's case, that wouldn't quite work out with only one connecting rod on the inside but with three sets of Walschaerts valve gear, the same dimensions would be needed to get the same valve events in all three cylinders.

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, robmcg said:

 

I think they are lovely models, but much criticism since release for poor assembly of some, solid cab side handrail , a left over from the design clever debacle, and most were fitted with 12-spoke front wheels, should be 10. 

 

As with some other Hornby RTR engines, lovely if you have a good one, and even better if you weather, or add and embellish.

 

Or in my case photo-edit.

 

Very impressive Rob,

 

I'd forgotten about the incorrect 12-spoked bogie wheels (on the lower model).

 

It's usually the other way round, with many NER types being given ten-spoked bogie wheels.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robmcg]

Thanks Tony,  I might add that my enjoyment of photo editing, for those who don't know, arises from serious crash multiple injuries and being paralysed and only one good hand, 47 years since the crash now... in 1974 I was 23 and indestructible on my British bikes!.   I'm proud to have survived these 47 years paralysed and mostly independent, still, and creating pictures of superb models even if not modelling as such. 

[Tony Wright]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Divided drive with a desire to have the connecting rods the same length inside and out, to balance the reciprocating masses? So the centres of the cylinders have to be set the same distance apart as the two driven axles. In Thompson's case, that wouldn't quite work out with only one connecting rod on the inside but with three sets of Walschaerts valve gear, the same dimensions would be needed to get the same valve events in all three cylinders.

Other than for standardisation, is there a real benefit with equal length connecting rods all round? 

 

As soon as Thompson retired (in fact before), any new designs for LNER Pacific types reverted to longer outside connecting rods. The story goes that during his last months in office, those responsible for the drawings used to cover up the revised front end from his sight. 

 

As a result, the Peppercorn Pacifics resorted to a much more 'balanced' front end, and the previous proposal to build 15 more (or even more) A2/3s and 50 A1/1s was changed to 15 A2s and 49 A1s. 

 

I suppose, in the end, that's history's verdict on the Thompson Pacifics. Designed to be 'superior' to what had gone before, they themselves were superseded within two years! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 minute ago, robmcg said:

Thanks Tony,  I might add that my enjoyment of photo editing, for those who don't know, arises from serious crash multiple injuries and being paralysed and only one good hand, 47 years since the crash now... in 1974 I was 23 and indestructible on my British bikes!.   I'm proud to have survived these 47 years paralysed and mostly independent, still, and creating pictures of superb models even if not modelling as such. 

What's 'not modelling as such', Rob? 

 

You do what you're able to do; very well!

 

It's a good deal more than those who never make/create anything.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Jack P]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Were I to assemble a gearbox for a customer, all in (including the components) the price would be about that of the DJH motor/gearbox. Professional rates, though it would be extortion if I could assemble a gearbox in ten minutes! No, over an hour to ensure 'perfect' performance

 

I can see it from both sides, If it was more cost effective for me to use the DJH box when commissioning a build - then it would be a no brainer.

 

Conversely, I value my own time at nothing (well, not nothing, because that's a bit self deprecating) but I can recognize I'm still learning and if it takes me 1-2 hours to assemble and fettle a (say) Highlevel box to work nicely, then I'm willing to take that time. It's beneficial that a HLK box/motor is about half the price of the DJH unit, but the priority is still a good quality item that works well - you wouldn't use a whitemetal chassis with an integrated motor mount just because it was cheap.  

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Other than for standardisation, is there a real benefit with equal length connecting rods all round? 

 

For a four cylinder engine yes, because the masses and angles are equal, so all cylinders have the same valve timings and are doing the same amount of work (so far as the valve setting tolerances etc. permit). 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Tony/Iain 

 

the owner of Midsomer Norton and Welton, Tony Sullivan called me today to provide an answer to the layout's location and some information about SDJR No. 72 as featured in the photograph.

 

After retiring the layout from the exhibition circuit it was put into storage after Tony moved house. Unfortunately the garage in which it was stored suffered from a water leak which caused irreparable damage to the baseboards and so had to be scrapped. The buildings were recovered and are now on another, smaller layout.

 

S&DJR No. 72 can now be seen on Chris Challis's layout Cheddar. It was built from an Alan Gibson kit for a Midland Railway M Class loco. I can't add anything to that, the MR 0-6-0s convoluted story being a complete a complete mystery for someone used to the LNWR.

 

Jol

 

 

Thanks Jol,

 

I'll have to dig out my pictures of Cheddar and see if No. 72 is featured.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[PupCam]

22 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

In Thompson's case, that wouldn't quite work out with only one connecting rod on the inside but with three sets of Walschaerts valve gear

Ah, if only there was clever and cunning way in which that third set of Walchaerts gear could be done away with* completely .......

 

* Of course, it might necessitate changing the relative position and design of some key components but, in the words of the management consultants; "No idea is a bad idea"**

 

** Time has of course proven that this statement is in fact false but not in this particular case

Edited April 6, 2021 by PupCam

[robmcg]

It certainly feels like I am creating when I take a beautiful RTR model and photograph it, and then make an evocative scene.   I do understand proper modelling too, and am astounded by the quality shown here and elsewhere, I loved rebuilding car engines and made a living at it, before the accident, same with photography.

 

Incidentally just bought a couple of new camaras.  Not quite your Nikon Df but will be pretty good, a 24MP Canon M200 and a  33MP Canon M6 Mk II.   One fifth the cost of a state-of-the-art full frame 50MP body only ...  I think if younger I might have gone the whole way with Canon or Nikon.

 

 

[TrevorP1]

22 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Divided drive with a desire to have the connecting rods the same length inside and out, to balance the reciprocating masses? So the centres of the cylinders have to be set the same distance apart as the two driven axles. In Thompson's case, that wouldn't quite work out with only one connecting rod on the inside but with three sets of Walschaerts valve gear, the same dimensions would be needed to get the same valve events in all three cylinders.

I’m far from knowledgeable on this but that’s  as I understand it. 
 

Fortunately my model has the 10 spoke bogie wheels but that would have been easily sorted if not. I happily accept it’s other shortcomings as there are many other, more pressing, model matters to consider. On the move, from 2 feet away it looks the part!  
 

 

[Northmoor]

2 minutes ago, PupCam said:

Ah, if only there was clever and cunning way in which that third set of Walchaerts gear could be done away* with completely .......

 

* Of course, it might necessitate changing the relative position and design of some key components but, in the words of the management consultants; "No idea is a bad idea"**

 

** Time has of course proven that this statement is in fact false but not in this particular case

I say this as someone who worked as one for nine years, but one consistently bad idea is, "Let's employ a management consultant".