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Wright writes.....


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4 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Tony, I think you mean the ex-Coronation Scot carriages.

 

The kitchen cars were standard so would have been used like any other kitchen cars, of which the LMR had lots.

 

The other stock seemed to be dispersed to general use and there are photos of individual carriages in various trains, some more prestigious than others. I don't recall seeing any photos of them in the Royal Scot sets but that train became Mark 1 very early on. The Caledonian was all Mark 1 from the outset except the kitchen car and brake first, which was a post-war porthole one until replaced by a Mark 1 BFK (type not introduced until 1959). 

 

There is one in this train: 

3846688526_68dc35f2ba_c.jpg46204_nrBerkhamstead_0950-Liverpool-Euston_22-7-61 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Thanks for that, Robert - since altered. As I wrote it it didn't look right!

 

And, thanks for the picture. Just as I remember PRINCESS LOUISE.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

I know manufacturers 'buy-into' a methodology - in this case mainly etched brass/nickel silver. Thus, the crossheads are supplied as a sandwich of four etched components, all to be soldered together, with a bit of wire to represent the piston rod. What a waste of time. I substituted Comet's lost wax double slidebar types, which were fettled in minutes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It isn't a waste of time if you want to build it accurately - these slidebars are far too close together for the County Tank, if they had been in the right position the Comet crossheads would have dropped between them. If it had been built with 30" stroke wheels it would have been apparent as the connecting rods would be hitting the ends of the slidebars.

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19 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

And, thanks for the picture. Just as I remember PRINCESS LOUISE.

46204 always seemed to have been a dirty princess, didn't she?(!)

 

27 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Graham,

 

May I ask; what did the whole rake cost please?

Best price is about £43 per coach. I'll leave you to do the rest of the maths ... they're already being advertised on Ebay

 

No doubt there's a point to be made there about the kit building alternative?

Edited by LNER4479
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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Though I'm not entirely sure, they might well be D&S ones, Robert.

 

The memory crumbles, but I seem to recall Roy telling me that Danny had supplied him with the sides, minus the 'Coronation' or 'West Riding' raised lettering. It was always tricky to remove for representing the cars in BR days.

 

 

My memory would agree with you Tony, I'm sure they were D&S, although I seem to recall Roy explaing once how he removed the raised lettering.

 

Pete

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5 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

It isn't a waste of time if you want to build it accurately - these slidebars are far too close together for the County Tank, if they had been in the right position the Comet crossheads would have dropped between them. If it had been built with 30" stroke wheels it would have been apparent as the connecting rods would be hitting the ends of the slidebars.

I agree Mike,

 

My point was poorly-made.

 

If the correct crossheads had been supplied as castings (lost-wax?), which would far better represent the real thing, it would have saved a great deal of time, providing they were cast well (I've had some which were as rough as a relief map of the Moon). 

 

The reason for not fitting driving wheels giving a 30" stroke was that those provided were friction-fit, and it's more important (indeed, most important) that this loco runs well.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, pete55 said:

 

My memory would agree with you Tony, I'm sure they were D&S, although I seem to recall Roy explaing once how he removed the raised lettering.

 

Pete

It could well be, Pete,

 

Though I'm still puzzled why Roy made a pair (or was making) of ex-'West Riding'/'Coronation' cars consisting of a brake end in conjunction with the restaurant/dining car. As far as I'm aware, these operated (virtually) exclusively in Scotland in BR days, one being part of the 'Aberdonian' consist between the Granite City and Edinburgh. None appears in any of my carriage working notices on the GN in the '50s.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
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5 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

46204 always seemed to have been a dirty princess, didn't she?(!)

 

Best price is about £43 per coach. I'll leave you to do the rest of the maths ... they're already being advertised on Ebay

 

No doubt there's a point to be made there about the kit building alternative?

Thanks Graham,

 

Though Comet, no doubt, does the (basic) kits for all the cars, are the roofs with the trunking available? 

 

Years and years ago, I photographed several models of the pre-War prestige LMS trains for BRM, including the blue 'Coronation Scot' (they were photographed on Stoke Summit!). They belonged to Aidan Crowley and were all made/painted for him by Graham Varley. I can't remember how the roofs were made, but the set looked magnificent (the motive power was a K's streamlined 'Princess Coronation'; later replaced by the DJH version, of which I built the first production kit). 

 

I believe they've since been sold-on after Aidan switched to O Gauge. Does anyone know what happened to these rakes? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

It could well be, Pete,

 

Though I'm still puzzled why Roy made a pair (or was making) of ex-'West Riding'/'Coronation' cars consisting of a brake end in conjunction with the restaurant/dining car. As far as I'm aware, these operated (virtually) exclusively in Scotland in BR days, one being part of the 'Aberdonian' consist between the Granite City and Edinburgh. None appears in any of my carriage working notices on the GN in the '50s.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I did wonder if it might have been to make use of the remaining pair of etches if Roy had to obtain the full set. If it had been another second/kitchen second twin, it would have made it easier to do the King's Cross-Glasgow set.

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3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

I did wonder if it might have been to make use of the remaining pair of etches if Roy had to obtain the full set. If it had been another second/kitchen second twin, it would have made it easier to do the King's Cross-Glasgow set.

Is there any evidence that the ex-streamlined brake/catering twins worked on the southern section of the ECML in BR days? There must have been occasions, surely?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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39 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Is there any evidence that the ex-streamlined brake/catering twins worked on the southern section of the ECML in BR days? There must have been occasions, surely?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I have not found any evidence of such workings.

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Tony (and other expert kit builders),

 

I have a couple of questions about the latest kit I am building. It is a NMRS (ex Meteor) kit for an O gauge C12. So far it has largely gone together quite easily. I have got this far over the weekend in about 6 hours work which is good going for me.

 

2154C2D4-BD16-4673-9918-C6401010502D.jpeg.808e58a6b77cdd4c5d572c51a2088e00.jpegThe chassis runs nicely. This was my first experience of using a Poppy wood tech loco box and it certainly seems to have helped get a smooth running chassis.

 

However, I am stuck on two issues. The first is how I get the motor to to fit through the footplate. As you can see from the photo below there is a lot of metal in the way where the motor should fit through. There are a few half etched lines but not enough to take the metal out. I am inclined to start cutting away to few up enough space but is there anything I should be aware of before I do so?

 

0A1F4096-EEAB-41ED-9C0C-800D494EEB95.jpeg.8244155729221cdfffe9e4d84a97f40e.jpeg
 

The second issue is with the cab roof. It came as a flat sheet including the sides and the instructions said to roll it round a 3/16” rod which I did. But I got the curve in slightly the wrong place and it was hard to get it to curve above the cab door recess. So after mucking around restraightening and persuading with pliers I have a cab which is (nearly) the right shape but with some horrid crease lines and plier marks in it as seen below.

 

4747B804-1EE2-4489-A627-3255572120B5.jpeg.fedde1ae8bfe880c7cdb7e846e5ccf8c.jpeg

 

I’m sure many people would say, bin it and start again. But that isn’t really an option as Graham Jones of NMRS was sadly a victim of Covid, so this kit is currently discontinued.

 

My inclination is to tin it with 145 solder and then use white metal solder to skim over the cab corners and file to shape. Does that sound like a reasonable idea and/or does anyone have a better suggestion?

 

Many thanks

 

Andy

 

 

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2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony (and other expert kit builders),

 

I have a couple of questions about the latest kit I am building. It is a NMRS (ex Meteor) kit for an O gauge C12. So far it has largely gone together quite easily. I have got this far over the weekend in about 6 hours work which is good going for me.

 

2154C2D4-BD16-4673-9918-C6401010502D.jpeg.808e58a6b77cdd4c5d572c51a2088e00.jpegThe chassis runs nicely. This was my first experience of using a Poppy wood tech loco box and it certainly seems to have helped get a smooth running chassis.

 

However, I am stuck on two issues. The first is how I get the motor to to fit through the footplate. As you can see from the photo below there is a lot of metal in the way where the motor should fit through. There are a few half etched lines but not enough to take the metal out. I am inclined to start cutting away to few up enough space but is there anything I should be aware of before I do so?

 

0A1F4096-EEAB-41ED-9C0C-800D494EEB95.jpeg.8244155729221cdfffe9e4d84a97f40e.jpeg
 

The second issue is with the cab roof. It came as a flat sheet including the sides and the instructions said to roll it round a 3/16” rod which I did. But I got the curve in slightly the wrong place and it was hard to get it to curve above the cab door recess. So after mucking around restraightening and persuading with pliers I have a cab which is (nearly) the right shape but with some horrid crease lines and plier marks in it as seen below.

 

4747B804-1EE2-4489-A627-3255572120B5.jpeg.fedde1ae8bfe880c7cdb7e846e5ccf8c.jpeg

 

I’m sure many people would say, bin it and start again. But that isn’t really an option as Graham Jones of NMRS was sadly a victim of Covid, so this kit is currently discontinued.

 

My inclination is to tin it with 145 solder and then use white metal solder to skim over the cab corners and file to shape. Does that sound like a reasonable idea and/or does anyone have a better suggestion?

 

Many thanks

 

Andy

 

 

Good afternoon Andy,

 

Take the maximum measurement of the motor and then cut out what's needed from the footplate with a piercing saw, adding a mil' each side for good measure.

 

To prevent the saw from binding, in the past I've glued a piece of hardboard to the brass (with Evo-Stik), which can be removed with solvent later. It means you won't go through near as many blades.

 

As for the cab roof, did you use pliers with 'blind' jaws? It looks like you've used some with serrated jaws - better for gripping, but dreadful for leaving marks.

 

I take it you don't have rolling bars? It makes jobs such as this much easier. 

 

Your idea of using solder as a filler is probably best. In fact, you might have to deepen some of the marks to give a good 'key' for the solder.

 

The best of luck!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
typo error
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53 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Take the maximum measurement of the motor and then cut out what's needed from the footplate with a piercing saw, adding a mil' each side for goof measure.

Tony

 

Is goof measure the ki8nd of measuring that I would do?

 

Lloyd

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Andy,

 

Take the maximum measurement of the motor and then cut out what's needed from the footplate with a piercing saw, adding a mil' each side for good measure.

 

To prevent the saw from binding, in the past I've glued a piece of hardboard to the brass (with Evo-Stik), which can be removed with solvent later. It means you won't go through near as many blades.

 

As for the cab roof, did you use pliers with 'blind' jaws? It looks like you've used some with serrated jaws - better for gripping, but dreadful for leaving marks.

 

I take it you don't have rolling bars? It makes jobs such as this much easier. 

 

Your idea of using solder as a filler is probably best. In fact, you might have to deepen some of the marks to give a good 'key' for the solder.

 

The best of luck!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks Tony,

 

That makes sense on the motor. 
 

I don’t have bending bars. They seem very expensive for something I would only use occasionally. But if I write too many kits off then they may look like a better investment! The other bends have gone fine (tanks fronts/ bunker rear etc). I just got this one in the wrong place. I probably should invest in some blind pliers though!

 

Regards 

 

Andy

 

 

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1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks Tony,

 

That makes sense on the motor. 
 

I don’t have bending bars. They seem very expensive for something I would only use occasionally. But if I write too many kits off then they may look like a better investment! The other bends have gone fine (tanks fronts/ bunker rear etc). I just got this one in the wrong place. I probably should invest in some blind pliers though!

 

Regards 

 

Andy

 

 

My wife slightly dented her baby (MGTF) gentleman who came to look at the damage just got behind the dent and massaged it out. Use something solid but softer than the brass and take your time. You can still finish off with a filer of some type, but remember you will/may need to solder within the proximity  of the damaged area.

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2 hours ago, Pebbles said:

My wife slightly dented her baby (MGTF) gentleman who came to look at the damage just got behind the dent and massaged it out. Use something solid but softer than the brass and take your time. You can still finish off with a filer of some type, but remember you will/may need to solder within the proximity  of the damaged area.

If solder is used as a filler where adjacent constructional soldering will subsequently take place, it's wise (in my experience) to use a higher melting point solder for the former task - say electrical solder. Then, turn the wick down for the latter. It does work and doesn't melt the filler solder.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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A good two part epoxy (J. B. Weld here in Canada) to fill in  the dents after roughing up and degreasing the surface.  Then before it sets use a cotton bud soaked in varsol to smooth and rough shape the surface, this can safe a lot of sanding. Repeat if necessary and finish off with a quality automobile glazing/spot putty or Milliput,  sand to shape and finish using wet and dry.  For a non expert it is a lot safer that trying to fill with solder and you will have to use spot putty anyway. 

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The best thing to do when faced with making a bend is to anneal the brass in the vicinity. I use a hob on the gas cooker and heat until the brass turns red. If you don’t have a gas cooker or blow lamp find a friend who has one or the other. Let the brass cool naturally then using a dowel or pencil or whatever (slightly smaller in diameter than the bend to be formed) gently form the bend, checking continually that it is at right angles to the edge and in the right place. Do not use pliers as, on annealed brass, your fingers, or a flat piece of wood on the outside of the bend, are sufficient. If the bend is in slightly the wrong place roll your former towards the true centre and continue bending, then gently straighten out the bit that is wrong. The annealed brass will harden off over time.

 

Is this kit not part of the Ace range?

 

Ian R

 

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1 hour ago, Ian Rathbone said:

The best thing to do when faced with making a bend is to anneal the brass in the vicinity. I use a hob on the gas cooker and heat until the brass turns red. If you don’t have a gas cooker or blow lamp find a friend who has one or the other. Let the brass cool naturally then using a dowel or pencil or whatever (slightly smaller in diameter than the bend to be formed) gently form the bend, checking continually that it is at right angles to the edge and in the right place. Do not use pliers as, on annealed brass, your fingers, or a flat piece of wood on the outside of the bend, are sufficient. If the bend is in slightly the wrong place roll your former towards the true centre and continue bending, then gently straighten out the bit that is wrong. The annealed brass will harden off over time.

 

Is this kit not part of the Ace range?

 

Ian R

 

Thanks Ian,

 

I’ve never tried annealing but I’ll give it a go next time.

 

My understanding is that the Ace C12 is a different kit. When Meteor Models was split up, the LNER locos went to NMRS and the Southern locos to Ace. I was recommended the Meteor C12 kit and followed it up with the guy who used to run Meteor. He explained what happened to his kits. He also told me that his C12 was originally drawn up by Jim Mcgeown of Connoisseur Models.

 

Thanks also to all the people who’ve offered me advice on the roof filling. I’m happiest with solder (I think it must be a result of my training with ‘Sir’ ) so I’ll try that first and then resort to epoxy, filler or filler primer as necessary in the painting stage.

 

Andy

 

 

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Morning Tony

You must have come across these people many times when you have been attending exhibitions , never happy till they find a fault with something ! 

A  “friend “ of mine and my brothers would look at one of our finished kit built locos till he found something to pass a negative comment on , never a complement ,  and yes he couldn’t two pieces of anything together.

So I guess it’s human nature that some people aren’t happy unless they are moaning , and the rest of us ! carry on doing what makes us happy.

 Dennis 

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Hi Tony,

 

It’s a lovely morning in God’s Own Country too. The sun is shining and the sea gently sloshing about as befits the day.

 

I think we have to accept that people who consider themselves to be an authority on a subject, commonly demonstrate a disconnect with the level of modelling skill and/or expertise also on display.

 

It is all too easy to spot issues like mis-aligned parts and the quality of running, or make a subjective observation on sound quality.... any muppet can do that.  But assessing the accuracy of a model requires familiarity with the prototype and perhaps unsurprisingly, very few of the ‘unboxing’ presenters venture make comment on this.

 

There is clearly a gap in the market for a you-tube un-boxer who actually knows their stuff.  But then again, would any serious modeller want to be associated with the unboxing scene?  The modelling press generally does product reviews much more to my liking... and is a lot more succinct too!

 

 

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