Tony Wright Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 10 hours ago, Tony Teague said: Even on the Southern, and after two rebuilds the T14's were considered sluggish, and relegated to secondary passenger duties, so despite being an SR loco enthusiast I think one might have to suspend belief more than a little, to see a Paddlebox heading The Talisman! Interesting, though, Tony. I saw 'The Talisman'(s) on many occasions, and it was always a Gresley A3, A4 or Peppercorn A1 on it (latterly a diesel flop in the form of an EE Type 4, but, eventually, and terrifically, a 'Deltic'). Being born just over a year before Nationalisation, I doubt if I'd have ever seen a T14, anywhere. Requiring an average speed of around a mile a minute between the two capitals, any smaller 4-6-0 would have struggled, but the Bulleids would have romped away with the eight/nine car Talisman sets. Regards, Tony. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 10 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Even on the Southern, and after two rebuilds the T14's were considered sluggish I've been looking for a picture of the one we run at Ormesby Hall, which is in original form and can't find one. The Hall is still closed so I can't get in to take one of it. I can confirm that the model performs just like the real thing - it's very heavy and has relatively little room for a motor so it's a battle to get anything beefy enough to move the loco into it, let alone pull any kind of decent train. I think there have been three attempts at rebuilding the chassis, the last by Peter Simmerson which has been the most successful. However any more than 4 or 5 carriages and it's down to walking pace all round the layout. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted April 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2021 45 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Interesting, though, Tony. I saw 'The Talisman'(s) on many occasions, and it was always a Gresley A3, A4 or Peppercorn A1 on it (latterly a diesel flop in the form of an EE Type 4, but, eventually, and terrifically, a 'Deltic'). Being born just over a year before Nationalisation, I doubt if I'd have ever seen a T14, anywhere. Requiring an average speed of around a mile a minute between the two capitals, any smaller 4-6-0 would have struggled, but the Bulleids would have romped away with the eight/nine car Talisman sets. Regards, Tony. Even the smaller sort, I'd think, which regularly worked 10+ on their home turf, though I always suspected that the "regular" MN substitutes came from an elite group. However, their lack of water scoops would have necessitated at least one water stop. The load/speed should also have been within the abilities of a V2, if the coal capacity of the 6-wheel tender was considered adequate. John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted April 22, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Tony Teague said: Indeed; few of us are competent at everything that the hobby calls for. Indeed, indeed, Tony. I'd say very, very few are competent at everything the hobby calls for. Perhaps I should say 'consistently' competent. That's why I always have the greatest admiration for the guys/girls who do everything for themselves - the Dennys, the Dyers, the others; all their work is of a consistent (high) standard and they're always self-reliant. Though I'd like to think I can do just about everything required in this hobby to build a model railway, the various disciplines would be inconsistent. I've built baseboards, track, signals, buildings, locos, wagons, carriages and structures. I've made loads of scenery, including tress. I've also wired up layouts and installed control panels. In case anyone thinks this is an example of self-satisfaction and smugness, I'll reiterate that word 'inconsistent'. I'll explain, if I may? Bytham's baseboards were all built by Norman Turner, a retired carpentry lecturer. There is no model railway anywhere running on better-built baseboards than Bytham's. Here they are, moments after they were all bolted together for the first time. Apart from the legs, everything was made from 9mm, top-quality birch ply, joined together by mortice and tenon joints. Could I built these? A rhetorical question if ever there was one! Fortunately, and by his own admission, Norman cannot build locos. So, how did I 'pay' for these wonderful baseboards? Well, I bought the wood (not even Norman fells his own trees and puts them through his own sawmill), and built the following for him, among others, in exchange..................................... Built/painted/weathered by me from a DJH kit. It's hauling Norman's own train (he's great at building wagons). And this V2 - a mixture of Crownline, DJH and scratch-building. Ian Rathbone painted it. And this DJH A2/3, which Ian also painted. Since Norman's main interest is in the LMR, I've now got this, in exchange for some ex-LMS locos. What does all the above show? The benefits of working in a team I suppose, members of which can all contribute something (other than just money) to a project. I'll post some further examples of bartering......................... Regards, Tony. 26 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted April 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Fortunately, and by his own admission, Norman cannot build locos. So, how did I 'pay' for these wonderful baseboards? Well, I bought the wood (not even Norman fells his own trees and puts them through his own sawmill), and built the following for him, among others, in exchange..................................... What does all the above show? The benefits of working in a team I suppose, members of which can all contribute something (other than just money) to a project. We are in total agreement; I could probably do all of those things if I tried, but undoubtedly, in a number of areas it would not be to the standard of others. On the money vs. bartering issue, I take perhaps a slightly different perspective, in that if one is time poor, because of working or other commitments, then excachanging one's (non-modelling) skills for money and using that to acquire help where one's own skills are lacking - or perhaps 'sub standard' - does not seem wrong or less good to me; indeed, that approach must keep a whole army of professional or semi-professional model builders in business! So there are areas where I will remain unashamedly a 'cheque book modeller'. 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted April 22, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2021 2 hours ago, Tony Teague said: We are in total agreement; I could probably do all of those things if I tried, but undoubtedly, in a number of areas it would not be to the standard of others. On the money vs. bartering issue, I take perhaps a slightly different perspective, in that if one is time poor, because of working or other commitments, then excachanging one's (non-modelling) skills for money and using that to acquire help where one's own skills are lacking - or perhaps 'sub standard' - does not seem wrong or less good to me; indeed, that approach must keep a whole army of professional or semi-professional model builders in business! So there are areas where I will remain unashamedly a 'cheque book modeller'. And, even more agreement, Tony. Though at times used in a disparaging sense (on occasions by me), I don't have the slightest problem with 'chequebook modelling'. After all, I've earned part of my living down the years by building locos for those who write cheques. Where I take issue is with those who get others to do their modelling for them, and then appear to gain the status of an 'accomplished' modeller. Some years ago, I had a 'dispute' with one regarding this and that, and one commentator thought it 'a great pity when two most-accomplished modellers disagree', or words to that effect. Whist I was flattered by being described as 'accomplished', I was puzzled at the epithet being given to the second party. 'Accomplished' in what? Research? Possibly, and certainly in being accomplished enough down the years to have earned enough dosh to have paid for a layout (and everything on it) be built by professionals (to a high standard). But, 'modeller' (accomplished or otherwise) implies (at least to me) a maker of things - much more than a commissioner. I think it's analogous with the situation of an owner of an art gallery which contains some fine paintings. That doesn't make the proprietor a 'painter'. More of a patron, really, and maybe 'accomplished' at that. At least some wonderful layouts have been built by the power of the chequebook, but if nothing on them is the work of the owner, then that owner doesn't deserve to be called an 'accomplished modeller'. His/her accomplishments lie elsewhere in my view. Anyway, as promised, some more examples of the opposite of chequbook modelling......................... Bytham's fiddle yard control panel was built for me by Rob Kinsey. Paid for by my building this Redcraft kit for him in EM. And, no, I didn't put the smokebox door on the wrong way round! Bytham's cement block train was also built by Rob. And, in return, I built this Brassmasters kit for him, also in EM. Geoff Haynes painted it. One loco which I'm still bartering about is this Crownline A2. It was (is?) Rob's property and was mainly built by me (painted by Ian Rathbone). In return, Rob will have a pair of Agenoria industrial tanks. Bytham has some wonderful signals, including this one built by Graham Nicholas. In return for his building the signal (the others were built by Mick Nicholson and Tony Gee, not, to be fair, as part of barter - though Tony, most graciously, only asked for the cost of the components and his petrol), I built this pair for him to run on Grantham (the J69's roof isn't pressed right down). I think the main delight for me is that I know that I've got my work on friends' layouts, and they've got their work on mine. Regards, Tony. 21 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jesse Sim Posted April 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2021 Another eBay restoration complete, the B5 is ready for some weathering, bit of a bitsa this thing is. Whoever built it couldn’t put a kit together to save his life, I’m very certain he’s mixed two versions of the locomotive together, either from not studying photos or he just didn’t care. She really needs a complete rebuild, which I will eventually do at one point later in life, but due to my limited number of suitable pre-grouping locos she will have to do. For now. However, I think I have succeeded in showing a B5 on the eve of her rebuild, which 5185 received in 1935, warts and all. 29 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andytrains Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Jesse Sim said: Another eBay restoration complete, the B5 is ready for some weathering, bit of a bitsa this thing is. Whoever built it couldn’t put a kit together to save his life, I’m very certain he’s mixed two versions of the locomotive together, either from not studying photos or he just didn’t care. She really needs a complete rebuild, which I will eventually do at one point later in life, but due to my limited number of suitable pre-grouping locos she will have to do. For now. However, I think I have succeeded in showing a B5 on the eve of her rebuild, which 5185 received in 1935, warts and all. Don't have too much of the 'Striding Chap' whilst modelling! Looks good to me, but I know very little of NE stuff. Edited April 22, 2021 by andytrains 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 7 hours ago, Jesse Sim said: Another eBay restoration complete, the B5 is ready for some weathering, bit of a bitsa this thing is. Whoever built it couldn’t put a kit together to save his life, I’m very certain he’s mixed two versions of the locomotive together, either from not studying photos or he just didn’t care. She really needs a complete rebuild, which I will eventually do at one point later in life, but due to my limited number of suitable pre-grouping locos she will have to do. For now. However, I think I have succeeded in showing a B5 on the eve of her rebuild, which 5185 received in 1935, warts and all. Jesse You are right, it looks to have the higher pitched 4'9" superheated boiler but with its original boiler fittings. The main thing you would need to do is replace the chimney (two options flowerpot or later short Robinson style), dome and safety valves to make it more correct. If I recall correctly (?) in order to build the original version the builder should have removed material from the base of the smokebox and firebox to get the correct pitch for the boiler, as that's how Millholme designed the kit. I've still got an unbuilt version but can't check as I'm in Qld for 10 days at the moment. I built my first one in 1987 as 5187 with superheated boiler. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 34 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said: Jesse You are right, it looks to have the higher pitched 4'9" superheated boiler but with its original boiler fittings. The main thing you would need to do is replace the chimney (two options flowerpot or later short Robinson style), dome and safety valves to make it more correct. If I recall correctly (?) in order to build the original version the builder should have removed material from the base of the smokebox and firebox to get the correct pitch for the boiler, as that's how Millholme designed the kit. I've still got an unbuilt version but can't check as I'm in Qld for 10 days at the moment. I built my first one in 1987 as 5187 with superheated boiler. Andrew I agree, as I said she’ll need a rebuild, but I’ll source the boiler and parts needed. One day she’ll get done at the moment shell do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 3 hours ago, andytrains said: Don't have too much of the 'Striding Chap' whilst modelling! Looks good to me, but I know very little of NE stuff. It’ll be for when I rebuild it that I’ll need it! also it’s a ex GCR loco not NE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andytrains Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said: It’ll be for when I rebuild it that I’ll need it! also it’s a ex GCR loco not NE Sorry, GC, not quite as bad as I have a D11/2 and a part built Q1, (0-8-0T), although technically they are LNER. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post thegreenhowards Posted April 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) An interesting debate about competence and commissioning/ bartering. I’d like to think that I am (just about) competent at all the skills required to build a model railway. Gresley Jn is entirely built by me including baseboards, track laying (and relaying!), wiring and scenery (some help from my daughter on this). The stock is the normal mixture of RTR and kits with quite a bit of both bought from eBay. While I have bought kits off eBay I very rarely pay more than the cost of the parts and they do take some work to get running and looks up to standard. I take the view that I don’t want to pay someone else to have the fun of building it...or maybe I’m just too tight! While the resulting layout is clearly not built to top quality standards, I’d like to think it’s at the good amateur end of the spectrum and certainly gives me a lot of pleasure which is what its all about at the end of the day. When it comes to club layouts, I tend to fall back to my favoured areas of track laying, wiring and stock. Others build the baseboards and do most of the scenery which suits us all. Our most recent layout has been built in relay over lockdown 3 starting in December. A fellow club member built the baseboards from 9mm and 4mm ply with 3x1 blocks. He delivered them to me as they were built. I then laid the track and wired it. We had out first club running session on it last week in my garden and started planning the scenic work. I hope this will become a good example of sticking to one’s ‘higher’ competencies. A link to the layout thread is here if anyone is interested. Regards Andy Edited April 23, 2021 by thegreenhowards Typo 19 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jesse Sim Posted April 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2021 (edited) Following on from my post about the B5 here she is after a bit of weathering. I also took the opportunity to finish of the GN milk brake and re number a C1 appropriate for the milk train, as well as giving her a nice hard working look through weathering. Sorry for hi jacking your thread Tony. Can I ask a question also? What’s a good colour or mix of colours to weather the rods and wheels? Edited April 23, 2021 by Jesse Sim 18 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted April 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2021 On 21/04/2021 at 14:14, 96701 said: Shouldn't the trap on the siding be reverse? Being pedantic, Phil, it is reversed but should be normal. On 21/04/2021 at 16:45, Tony Wright said: It should Phil, When Norman Solomon was making all the Bytham scenic-side trackwork (using the prototype trackplan), both of us forgot to note the trap point protecting the Down slow/Down north lay-by. Thus, at the initial stage, it wasn't made. Norman made it retrospectively, but only as a dummy; only really noticed from angles such as the picture in question was taken from. I live with it! Regards, Tony. A wise decision. All my trap points are dummies. I get enough derailments without encouraging more. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted April 23, 2021 Author Share Posted April 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Jesse Sim said: Following on from my post about the B5 here she is after a bit of weathering. I also took the opportunity to finish of the GN milk brake and re number a C1 appropriate for the milk train, as well as giving her a nice hard working look through weathering. Sorry for hi jacking your thread Tony. Can I ask a question also? What’s a good colour or mix of colours to weather the rods and wheels? All look good! Colours for weathering motion? Matt black/brown enamel. Regards, Tony. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted April 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: All look good! Colours for weathering motion? Matt black/brown enamel. Regards, Tony. I use Humbrol 29 Matt Dark Earth but I don't stir it up (as if...). Putting a pigment-poor coat on lets it accumulate round joints and pivots, and gives a nice oily-looking sheen. 1 1 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, St Enodoc said: I use Humbrol 29 Matt Dark Earth but I don't stir it up (as if...). Putting a pigment-poor coat on lets it accumulate round joints and pivots, and gives a nice oily-looking sheen. I generally use a thin mix of Humbrol 85 satin black and 186 brown and sometimes finish off with a bit of gloss varnish to make it gleam. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 30 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: All look good! Colours for weathering motion? Matt black/brown enamel. Regards, Tony. Cheers Tony, although I’ve just noticed some of the numbers have broken off during the weathering process. I’ll fix them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 2 hours ago, St Enodoc said: I use Humbrol 29 Matt Dark Earth but I don't stir it up (as if...). Putting a pigment-poor coat on lets it accumulate round joints and pivots, and gives a nice oily-looking sheen. I do something similar but add various amounts of 53 gunmetal metalilc. Ironically I find that Hornby motion needs a wash to take away the metal look and than some dirt mixed with metallic to bring it back. Freight locos tend to get something darker, so I add lots of 401 dirty black. Bernard 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted April 23, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 23, 2021 Not done any for a while but I have used copper in with the matt black and a bit of brown in the past, the copper catches the light giving the effect of light on wet oil on the prototype. 2 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GH in EM and O Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 9 hours ago, Jesse Sim said: Following on from my post about the B5 here she is after a bit of weathering. I also took the opportunity to finish of the GN milk brake and re number a C1 appropriate for the milk train, as well as giving her a nice hard working look through weathering. Sorry for hi jacking your thread Tony. Can I ask a question also? What’s a good colour or mix of colours to weather the rods and wheels? For the rods, try a mix of Humbrol Metalcote Polished Steel, and no 9 Gloss Tan. Brush it on, then at least 24 hours later, polish it up with a cotton bud. It really brings it to life. For wheels, I tend to give a light spray over with a similar mix of what I have used on the body, specifically a mid brown and matt black, mixed 1:2, and plenty of thinners. 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted April 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2021 Loco and tender frames, bogies and bogie and tender wheels I use a mix of Humbrol Matt Black (33), Gunmetal (53) and Leather (62), about 3 parts black, 2 parts leather and 1 part of gunmetal. Driving wheels I often paint differently especially on locos with outside valve gear as they often look shiny in pictures, presumably due to the oil thrown around (sometimes more so the leading and middle wheels than the rear driving wheels on a 4-6-0 for example). To show this, I paint driving wheels with a 50:50 mix of Satin Black (85) and Metalcote Gunmetal (27004) with a little Leather (62); this can then be buffed when dry to produce an oily sheen. I use the same mixture to show oily deposits around axle boxes and on buffer heads etc. Rods and valve gear, I tend to use a 50:50 mix of Gloss Dark Brown (10) and Satin Black (85) applied quite thinly. If doing the rods of a 'clean' loco I do exactly what @GH in EM and O has just said above. 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted April 23, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 23, 2021 One of the locos Retford needs is a B17 which will pull the heavy boat train.................. One of the locos I built for my Crowood book was this Crownline B17 (which Geoff Haynes painted). I built it in OO, but B17s through Little Bytham were exceptionally rare - if at all. My choice was CLUMBER, because that's the March B17 I saw the most on the 'North Country Continental'. So, I've now made a Comet set of EM frames for it, and friend, Ray Chessum, made the 6' - 6' sub frame for the tender (Comet doesn't make one). Just the motion to erect now. Packed with lead in every nook and cranny, it took 14 metal, kit-built bogies on Bytham as a sufficient test. I made the new chassis yesterday and normally I'd put together the motion within 24 hours. However............................... The postman delivered this today! I'll build this new Nu-Cast K2 as a matter of some urgency, and report my findings to Dave Ellis, prior to the kit going on sale. As a matter of expediency, the picture of the (original) Nu-Cast K2 I built has been used on the box. I'll report accordingly. The contents of the box are very, very tempting.......................... 31 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 7 hours ago, GH in EM and O said: For the rods, try a mix of Humbrol Metalcote Polished Steel, and no 9 Gloss Tan. Brush it on, then at least 24 hours later, polish it up with a cotton bud. It really brings it to life. For wheels, I tend to give a light spray over with a similar mix of what I have used on the body, specifically a mid brown and matt black, mixed 1:2, and plenty of thinners. I thought of using the same mix I did on the body but thought it might have a bit more brown in it. Thanks Geoff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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