Wright writes.....

[thegreenhowards]

On 14/05/2021 at 05:17, Woodcock29 said:

Yes the screw reverser should be mounted on the box so it's higher end is at the back and the handle is at the back.

From the Isinglass drawing it appears to be actually centered on the inner edge of the box. 

The regulator is horizontal and in line with bottom of spectacles. The end that is cranked out should be on the driving side, ie the righthand side.

Looking further into the brake handle - it should be centered on the back of the lefthand tank by the cab doorway.

Hope this helps.

Andrew

I’ve tried amending the cab details this morning. I found the bits on the isinglass drawing and I think it makes sense now although the drawing is about as ‘crystal clear’ as a government coronavirus briefing!  Does this now look OK?

Thanks again,

 

Andy

 

P.S. The regulator handle fitted perfectly - there was even a hole to locate it! Easy once I knew what it was!

[thegreenhowards]

40 minutes ago, Barry O said:

I do find some of the recent comments very , very negative.  Life has changed so has the hobby!  Kit manufacturers are run off their feet, component manufacturers ditto, and the RTR guys are doing well.. so come on.. think positive!

 

Baz

I couldn't agree more. While I can't argue with the logic of Sir's oft repeated theory that the train spotting generation is passing through, I believe that there has been a huge increase in the hobby during lockdown with people returning to the hobby with the extra time on their hands which lockdown provided.

 

While many club layouts may have stalled, I'm sure there are a number of home built exhibition layouts being built and waiting to emerge when shows are back on. I expect a really positive few years when Covid is under control. It may turn out to be an Indian Summer for the hobby but I, for one, am looking forward to it.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, StephenB said:

COVID-19 has changed everything and we have to ask whether things will ever be the same again.

People probably said that about the Spanish Flu! It will take time, but we will learn to live with this thanks to the wonders of modern science

[thegreenhowards]

3 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Perhaps one option would be for Model Railway Exhibitions to become strictly "advance ticket only" events, sold at a point where, if sufficient sales aren't forthcoming then the organisers can cancel the show with (hopefully) minimal losses.  Far from ideal I know, but better than no show at all.

That would be a disaster as far as I'm concerned. It might work for the biggest 'must see' shows, but there's no way I'd book in advance for a local show. I just make the decision on the day - if I'm free I'll go.

 

[thegreenhowards]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

The last few posts on the economic and financial aspects of shows have made interesting reading.

 

I have felt for a long while that many clubs use their annual show as a source of income to keep the club viable. Personally, I think this is wrong. I have (successfully in most cases) persuaded a few clubs with which I have been involved over the years that the basic costs of assuring a club's existence - rent, rates, utilities, insurance, etc. - should be covered by subscriptions. Any income from the annual show then provides the wherewithal to build layouts, go on club trips (do they still happen?) and all the other things we like to do but which if the club did not exist per se would not be possible.

 

Discuss..

That makes a lot of sense. Our club did hold a show years ago (before my time), but it's regarded as too much hassle now especially given the relatively aged members until recently. We're lucky that our rent is modest and costs can be covered by subs, so a show is not necessary from that point of view.

 

With the new young(er) blood we've recruited recently, I'd like to think that we could stage a show in the future...but that's a few years off.

 

Andy

[t-b-g]

47 minutes ago, Barry O said:

 

 

I do find some of the recent comments very , very negative.  Life has changed so has the hobby!  Kit manufacturers are run off their feet, component manufacturers ditto, and the RTR guys are doing well.. so come on.. think positive!

 

Baz

 

I would agree and while I have some concerns about exhibitions, I don't think that they are the life blood of the hobby.

 

To me, that is the people like me, or like us, who sit in our workshops, sheds or at our desks with our toolkits, or who are beavering away on layouts. We can carry on without exhibitions but I am not sure the reverse is true.

 

I have done a good deal of very enjoyable modelling over the lockdown and I if anything, it has been a very creative time. There have been a number of times when in that past, I would have thought "I will get one of those at the next show" where I have thought "I can make one of those from what I have here". So I have taught myself to make chimneys and domes on my little lathe rather than raid the components on sale at a show.

 

The people I have ordered things from by mail order have been excellent.

 

So it is not all doom and gloom, just perhaps a change in emphasis and direction.

 

Part of the "opening up" has been the prospect of the Missenden modelling courses starting up. As long as nothing happens to spoil things between now and August, the plan is for the summer week to go ahead and I have just heard that it is fully booked.

 

The thing I have missed most of all is seeing my friends. As long as we can gather in small groups and get back to having the laughter and banter that we thrive on, that will do for me.

[thegreenhowards]

Sorry for my overload of responses this morning - last couple of points from me for the moment.

 

Firstly on traders. For me, they are the main reason I visit many shows, particularly the likes of Railex and ExpoEM. The trade support for these shows is fantastic and it's so good to be able to talk to the proprietor and pick up small bits without paying postage. I have no knowledge of the charging structure for shows, but it strikes me that specialists should get a lower rate than the box shifters (if not free). I'll pay a lot more for entrance to a show with a couple of specialist retailers than one with just a lot of box shifters (who will probably be pricier than the big online boys anyway).

 

Postage is my other point. I really hate paying postage as it's just a dead cost. I don't think traders generally rip their punters off for postage, although the same can't necessarily be said for the Royal Mail, whose prices just seem to go up and up. I'd much rather that money is put into show admission than waste it on postage. I have a rule that I never pay more than 10% for postage. If it's going to cost me more than that, I wait until I've got a bigger order or can visit a show. I've even been known to buy lots of stuff that I don't really need just to get over the free postage threshold - don't tell my wife!

 

Andy

[richard i]

29 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Sorry for my overload of responses this morning - last couple of points from me for the moment.

 

Firstly on traders. For me, they are the main reason I visit many shows, particularly the likes of Railex and ExpoEM. The trade support for these shows is fantastic and it's so good to be able to talk to the proprietor and pick up small bits without paying postage. I have no knowledge of the charging structure for shows, but it strikes me that specialists should get a lower rate than the box shifters (if not free). I'll pay a lot more for entrance to a show with a couple of specialist retailers than one with just a lot of box shifters (who will probably be pricier than the big online boys anyway).

 

Postage is my other point. I really hate paying postage as it's just a dead cost. I don't think traders generally rip their punters off for postage, although the same can't necessarily be said for the Royal Mail, whose prices just seem to go up and up. I'd much rather that money is put into show admission than waste it on postage. I have a rule that I never pay more than 10% for postage. If it's going to cost me more than that, I wait until I've got a bigger order or can visit a show. I've even been known to buy lots of stuff that I don't really need just to get over the free postage threshold - don't tell my wife!

 

Andy

I agree with all of your points especially this one. I would also suggest looking back at Spanish flu. It took a couple of years of uncertainty after it and then there was the roaring twenties, which for many years has been attributed to coming out of Ww1 but because of COVID has been reassessed as more of a response to the enforced social distancing imposed. Therefore exhibitions could be few and quieter for 2021/2022 but by 2023 will be running again. For me the change will be in what is there. More diesel and electric layouts, less br steam as memories of those prepared to exhibit are from those era. 
richard 

[PupCam]

14 hours ago, PupCam said:

The number of punters who will actually walk through the door.     Of course,  after a number of exhibitions you might think you can make a reasonable guess but even with a well established show with a good reputation there is significant variability no doubt caused by a variety of obvious and not obvious factors.

 

13 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I wouldn't want to be organising one now, with all the uncertainty as to whether it may or may not bomb in terms of ticket sales. I don't know if I would want to attend one now either as an exhibitor or a visitor. Being behind a layout or a demo table for two days with many hundreds of people breathing over me often ended up with me feeling poorly for a few days after a show having had some germs passed onto me but the stakes are much higher now.

 

I would want the situation to be very much better than it is now, with pretty much full vaccination and next to no cases of Covid before I will mix with a big crowd again.

 

That "Covid Insecurity" will affect us all over the coming months and years although clearly to very different and personal degrees.   It is perhaps currently the key "Obvious Factor" affecting likely exhibition attendance either as "part of the show" or as a punter that I alluded to.

 

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I have felt for a long while that many clubs use their annual show as a source of income to keep the club viable. Personally, I think this is wrong. I have (successfully in most cases) persuaded a few clubs with which I have been involved over the years that the basic costs of assuring a club's existence - rent, rates, utilities, insurance, etc. - should be covered by subscriptions.

I couldn't agree more and used the same argument when, as a founder member and, in the positions of Membership Secretary and Chairman of a couple of R/C Model Flying clubs I was always amazed that members would be quite happy to spend hundreds and later thousands of pounds to acquire/build/operate a model aircraft (which had a very high probability of returning home in a bin bag) but would bleat about putting the subs up from £50/year to, say, £55/year in order to have somewhere to fly them!    Although in the case of a model railway club the principle is likely to become a double edged sword  as the club's success led to bigger, better and more comprehensive facilities being provided which would then effectively escalate the running overheads to be funded directly by the membership.  Again another very, very fine balance to be struck.

 

4 hours ago, Dragonboy said:

I dread to think how much tat I bought Mail order over the years dating back to the 70’s by post based on a printed WH catalogue

Ah!   I've still got a couple of W&H catalogues lurking somewhere   

I can remember poring over them in my youth, day dreaming over that magnificent layout to built in the future .....

 

4 hours ago, Dragonboy said:

I am fortunate that I enjoy good health, and have been fully jabbed, but I suspect I will be reluctant to get up close and personal with crowds for some time yet having assiduously been avoiding people for over a year now - some would say most of my life - and I think a lot of what’s been said already about show costs and organisers needs are very valid but for me it’s going to be safety so a very very cautious re-entry, despite the fact that I’m truly missing the overall show experience.

That "Covid Insecurity" will affect us all over the coming months and years although clearly to very different and personal degrees  .........  the recurring theme (and quite rightly so).

 

3 hours ago, D-A-T said:

There does seem to be two different “circuits”. The Southern and the Northern and never the twain shall cross. Costs I guess. But if the exhibition scene wants to revive itself then a few “expensive guest” layouts from the other “circuit” maybe a possible way forward. Whether the layout owners/operating team would want to make the trek is another matter entirely. 

Is it actually a North / South divide, I'm not so sure?    

 

For me the divide is more along the lines of Size of Exhibit versus Size of Show  (which very roughly correlates to is it a one or two day show?)  for a number of factors but primarily controlled by logistics and costs.     

 

The show I referred to earlier is clearly southern (being located not that far from the M25) but regularly had exhibits from the north, to a lesser extent the extreme south west and more recently from across the Channel.      In my experience, you are very unlikely to attract  or be able to attract a huge layout with a team of 10 operators to a  one day, village hall show irrespective of whether it is coming 5 miles or 500miles  (I have no doubt that there are of course exceptions to this rule!)

 

2 hours ago, Barry O said:

Currently there are no Government "Passports".. the passport only means you have had a jab or jabs.. it doesn't show that you have had a negative test. Test are (currently) free from the NHS. Should we ask everyone to prove they have had a negative test in the last two day?  In reality Clubs can only follow Government (and local) guidance on this area. It may mean you have to have your temperature checked on entry to the show, it may mean having a proof of negative test, we don't know but we will find out.

Am I correct in thinking that this is the current principle of the Government's experiments in opening  "mass attendance" events  (let's not get all political here discussing the rights and wrongs)?  I think the recent snooker final, a pop concert and some other similarly sized events have been run along these lines, as much as a scientific experiment as a means to let the people enjoy themselves.

 

Personally I'm not that bothered about attending a snooker final, pop concert or a football match at the moment (well, if I'm honest, or at all) but it does highlight once again that doing so is very much a personal thing and clearly everyone is different.

 

[St Enodoc]

10 minutes ago, PupCam said:

I've still got a couple of W&H catalogues lurking somewhere

Good old Wait & Hope!

[grahame]

4 hours ago, Barry O said:

   Currently there are no Government "Passports"..

 

Apparently coronavirus vaccination status passport/certificates are available from tomorrow (17th May). Electronic version on the NHS app for smartphones and paper ones posted to you by calling 119. You may still be required to show other proof like a polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test and may still be required to isolate when crossing international boarders. 

 

But what hope do we have when doctors and travel agents are already faking them:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/doctor-admits-fraud-faking-pcr-160811501.html

https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/bangalore/travel-agent-caught-selling-fake-covid-19-reports/article34552081.ece

Edited May 16, 2021 by grahame

[Woodcock29]

3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I’ve tried amending the cab details this morning. I found the bits on the isinglass drawing and I think it makes sense now although the drawing is about as ‘crystal clear’ as a government coronavirus briefing!  Does this now look OK?

Thanks again,

 

Andy

 

P.S. The regulator handle fitted perfectly - there was even a hole to locate it! Easy once I knew what it was!

Andy

The reverser looks good now. In one of my subsequent posts I revised my view on where the brake handle goes after studying the Isinglass drawing and photos. It should be about central on the back of the lefthand side tank. In some photos you can actually see the handle.

Andrew

[gr.king]

Delving into the nitty-gritty of the revival of mass-attendance events, and given the problem of viral spread by close proximity, by aerosol and by hand, doesn't something radical need to be done about the toilets in lots of places, including the most prestigious venues? With swarms of people using them, sometimes at high density, it doesn't seem to take very long before the floors are wet, the "vital facilities" unpleasant, the hand basins grimy, and any trough-type air-blast hand driers have an accumulation of foul drippings and fluff in the bottom of the trough. The air in those places must be laden with micro-droplets carrying all sorts of potential sources of infection. Unless much larger or more numerous toilets are provided, kept clean, dry, and thoroughly ventilated, then there's likely to be a problem. Large numbers crowding in all at once, or a relentless unbroken cycle of use of limited facilities must carry a great risk, and if large numbers are admitted to the general venue then can you seriously expect them all to tolerate a very long wait in a socially-distanced queue, to answer the call of nature? Additionally, if the hand drying arrangements appear foul, how many are likely to conclude that it might be better not to wash their hands at all?

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, PupCam said:

I couldn't agree more and used the same argument when, as a founder member and, in the positions of Membership Secretary and Chairman of a couple of R/C Model Flying clubs I was always amazed that members would be quite happy to spend hundreds and later thousands of pounds to acquire/build/operate a model aircraft (which had a very high probability of returning home in a bin bag) but would bleat about putting the subs up from £50/year to, say, £55/year in order to have somewhere to fly them!    Although in the case of a model railway club the principle is likely to become a double edged sword  as the club's success led to bigger, better and more comprehensive facilities being provided which would then effectively escalate the running overheads to be funded directly by the membership.  Again another very, very fine balance to be struck.

There is where so many of us enthusiasts are our own worst enemies. 

 

Many years ago I was a member of the Ffestiniog Railway Society; if I remember correctly, members were entitled to free travel 12 times p.a.  It was often pointed out that members travelling at the busiest times of the summer were short-changing their railway about £15 per person, but the FRS absolutely could not get members to accept even a 75% discount.  Since the majority of members lived outside Wales, they were quite prepared to spend money on a 200 miles round trip to visit "their" railway, but expected to pay nothing once there, beacuse they had paid their membership subscription of maybe £12 p.a., of which probably more than half went on producing and posting the magazine four times a year.  I think some/many members made a voluntary donation when visiting, if only to make a point that they weren't one of the stubborn ones; I know I did when I visited in 1995, mid-way through a 500-mile motorcycle journey.  

 

Likewise when I chaired a loco preservation group, there were occasions when we had to raise the memberships subs to cover the rising costs of printing the mag.  We concluded that if it went up from £10 to £12, 5% of the membership wouldn't renew; however, if it went up from £10 to £20, 5% of the membership wouldn't renew.  It was ANY increase they objected to, not the amount and these members were no great loss to the group.

[westerner]

AC Railcar being tried out on the Blackney branch after being axed from the Kemble branches.

 

[Tony Wright]

I don't think many of the recent comments have been 'negative'; rather just 'realistic'. 

 

Staging a show at this time is really fraught with difficulty. Could it be cancelled at the last minute? If so, how much might already have been expended? I don't think these are negative questions.

 

If the worst came to the worst, it could see a club fold (with debts?). Long before Covid, WMRC decided it couldn't risk putting on a show any more because, at the last one, the exhibition only just about broke even. 

 

There are shows I know of which are no more because the organising club's membership is too old (and infirm) to carry on. 

 

It might well be that the hobby is entering an Indian summer, but such a 'summer' is merely the prelude to harder times. Speaking personally, I haven't been so prolific at making things in the last 15 months since I stopped building locos professionally, 18 years ago. Over 20 locos built, and counting! Granted, most of the kits for these were already in stock, but I've ordered far more motor/gearboxes, wheels and even complete chassis kits since the first lockdown than in many years before. All ordered without visiting shows and all delivered by post or courier. May I please thank all the firms concerned for their fantastic service during these difficult times? Particular thanks go to Comet, DJH, SE Finecast, Nu-Cast Partners, 247 Developments, Hobby Holidays, LRM, Markits, LMS and several others (if I've missed any off, then my apologies). 

 

Would it matter to me if I never attended another show? I'd miss the friendship, banter and enjoyable atmosphere, but I have that already with Little Bytham. The first 'guest' as restrictions are lifted is coming tomorrow and more old friends are due to visit later in the week. LB is a kind of fixed one-layout exhibition in itself, and already the diary is filling up with dates for visitors. I accept that not all are this lucky, but if it's the future way, then so be it.

 

It also has a 'trade stand as well'. I have masses of donated stuff to sell. All I do is to put it out on the table for 'punters' to browse - either all the proceeds going to CRUK or 10% if I'm selling stuff on on behalf of the bereaved.  

 

To end on a positive note, the Bingham Show is scheduled for the 4th and 5th of September. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Tony Wright
to add something

[60027Merlin]

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

Delving into the nitty-gritty of the revival of mass-attendance events, and given the problem of viral spread by close proximity, by aerosol and by hand, doesn't something radical need to be done about the toilets in lots of places, including the most prestigious venues? With swarms of people using them, sometimes at high density, it doesn't seem to take very long before the floors are wet, the "vital facilities" unpleasant, the hand basins grimy, and any trough-type air-blast hand driers have an accumulation of foul drippings and fluff in the bottom of the trough. The air in those places must be laden with micro-droplets carrying all sorts of potential sources of infection. Unless much larger or more numerous toilets are provided, kept clean, dry, and thoroughly ventilated, then there's likely to be a problem. Large numbers crowding in all at once, or a relentless unbroken cycle of use of limited facilities must carry a great risk, and if large numbers are admitted to the general venue then can you seriously expect them all to tolerate a very long wait in a socially-distanced queue, to answer the call of nature? Additionally, if the hand drying arrangements appear foul, how many are likely to conclude that it might be better not to wash their hands at all?

 

Re your last sentence. 

 

There is already a great number who refrain from this basic action of cleanliness. Into the bargain it is always a concern when shaking hands with some questionable  types! Goodness only knows what their houses are like.

 

 

 

 

[jollysmart]

4 minutes ago, 60027Merlin said:

 

Re your last sentence. 

 

 Goodness only knows what their houses are like.

 

 

 

 

 

Having a job in my youth which entailed home visits, you really don't want to know.

[gr.king]

Economics aside (and the service was always grossly uneconomic in its own right) , that's one of the main reasons I refused to continue home visits shortly after I became my own master, regardless of suggestions from our professional association that it might be considered "unethical" to deny service in this way

[Leander]

22 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

As I now live in Cornwall, all such opportunities involve much travelling; (too much)

Have a look at the 'Virtual expoEM Spring' next Saturday.

[Chas Levin]

7 hours ago, gr.king said:

Delving into the nitty-gritty of the revival of mass-attendance events, and given the problem of viral spread by close proximity, by aerosol and by hand, doesn't something radical need to be done about the toilets in lots of places, including the most prestigious venues? With swarms of people using them, sometimes at high density, it doesn't seem to take very long before the floors are wet, the "vital facilities" unpleasant, the hand basins grimy, and any trough-type air-blast hand driers have an accumulation of foul drippings and fluff in the bottom of the trough. The air in those places must be laden with micro-droplets carrying all sorts of potential sources of infection. Unless much larger or more numerous toilets are provided, kept clean, dry, and thoroughly ventilated, then there's likely to be a problem. Large numbers crowding in all at once, or a relentless unbroken cycle of use of limited facilities must carry a great risk, and if large numbers are admitted to the general venue then can you seriously expect them all to tolerate a very long wait in a socially-distanced queue, to answer the call of nature? Additionally, if the hand drying arrangements appear foul, how many are likely to conclude that it might be better not to wash their hands at all?

Very well put; so well, in fact, that I'm off to wash my hands!

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Very well put; so well, in fact, that I'm off to wash my hands!

 

Nobody expects the Spanish Clayton track cleaning gang. 

 

Coming to an exhibition (two meters) nearer to you in 2131.

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Headstock
space

[Dunsignalling]

13 hours ago, 60027Merlin said:

 

Re your last sentence. 

 

There is already a great number who refrain from this basic action of cleanliness. Into the bargain it is always a concern when shaking hands with some questionable  types! Goodness only knows what their houses are like.

 

 

 

 

Trouble is, having washed ones hands, the benefit will be lost from one of them by having to touch the door handle on the way out.....

 

I think the small bottle of sanitiser gel in my pocket is going to be part of the New Normal.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

13 hours ago, jollysmart said:

 

Having a job in my youth which entailed home visits, you really don't want to know.

And some that appear fastidious when out and about give you a bit of a surprise when out of public sight.

 

John  

[Tony Wright]

Speaking of visiting homes, I don't know how many I entered to photograph model railways - hundreds and hundreds.

 

Most (as one would, hopefully, expect) were delightful and welcoming. One, however, was so 'welcoming', I found it difficult to leave. My shoes had become stuck to the carpet!