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10 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Fully undertand your position Grahame and lighting effects are definitely not to everyone's taste. A bit like sound effects, which I don't like but many do.

I agree about operating in the dark; perhaps I should have explained that I attempt to simulate something like dusk - by the use of different lights and/or partial curtain-drawing - so that there's enough light to see what I'm doing, but at a sufficiently low level that the lighting on the layout is still effective.

I'd also agree about the need to provide lighting for other things, but I enjoy lighting buildings, platforms and other structures too, so I've always done that in tandem with the locos and rolling stock.

I haven't yet done so for road vehicles, but they are on my list...

 

Can I make a suggestion for someone to search regarding lighting on layouts please?

I'm away from home and only using my phone with a not brilliant 4G signal, but some of the best layout lights I have seen are on  Andy's (user name 298) American street running layout. There are pictures somewhere on the forum. It's not a big layout but it's certainly clever and highly effective in my opinion.

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I've been asking friends, but I'd like to ask a wider audience, if I may?

 

This is with regard to the price of second-hand (but un-built and complete) loco kits in 4mm. 

 

They're coming from at least three sources, and some are complete donations to CRUK (thanks Sandra).

 

They include Gibson kits for rebuilt 'Scots', and Brassmasters for the same. Also, various DJH kits (including Romford wheels) for 'Austerity' 2-10-0s and a couple of the limited-edition Highland/Caledonian 'River' 4-6-0s (rare?). There are various others from Pro-Scale (A1/A3/A4/V2!/K3/B1/etc), all complete and untouched.

 

I don't do eBay, but friends do, and some of the quoted prices are either incredibly cheap, realistic, or hugely over-priced (the last-mentioned, in my view). 

 

I'd just like a sort of ball-park figure to be able to price these sort of things fairly. At least 10% of all sales will go to CRUK.

 

Many thanks in anticipation

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I have never bothered with working lights on models until I was asked by a couple of people that I have built things for to put some in some semaphore signals and a few signalboxes.

 

Using LED types with plenty of resistors to bring the levels down was very effective and particularly with the signalboxes, was a nice way to show off the interior detail that is otherwise largely lost.

 

So I have added a low level light, which the camera has brightened in auto mode, to my new signalbox.20201028_170101.jpg.8e2f16fe41b5c7e445f01378eab89870.jpg

 

I have seen lights done well and I have seen them done badly. Done well, it adds a bit of a new dimension. At a show, a layout that goes into night mode can be a great hit with viewers. The 2mm St Ruth layout does it very well and it is a nice bit of showmanship and theatre.

 

It is one of those things that is like sound, or DCC. You either like it or you don't but there is no right or wrong, just personal preferences.

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I am guilty of having unnecessary lighting on my diesel depot layouts. After having made prototypical lights I had to illuminate them. One day the switch in my brain came on, like street lighting outside lighting at locations like depots is not needed, there is a big thing called the sun that does that. Plus like local councils the railways do not like spending money on electrickery when not required. So all layouts from now on do not have working lights.

 

As a 1960s modeller I do find the lights in RTR diesels annoying, and far too bright. Only one red light was displayed on the rear of a light engine, not two on every train. Even then it was rare for a light loco to use its red light more often than not the driver would wake the secondman up and get him to put an old fashioned oil lamp on the rear as that is what the signalman would be looking for. There were strict instructions as to when lamps were to be lit. Many diesel locos have far to bright headcode displays, look at period photos and do most look like they illuminated?

 

When I still had Hanging Hill I did try an operating session using the lights on the layout. I should have tidied the garage up first as I kept bashing into things or tripping over them.

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16 hours ago, richard i said:

Kit building, if not locos, these are as near as finished as I am going to be able to get them. Any more accuracy to prototype has either been stopped due to lack of prototype information or lack of skill on my part to replicate the prototype, mostly in the painting department.

8DE97F3E-F5A4-458D-8A2C-AA590BDC73DC.jpeg.0cc0e939e62288f3e7879ee01153e5a2.jpeg

the are another 5 but most would have to play spot the difference to know that I was not just putting up more pictures of the same carriages. Just as I can not tell most Mk2 carriages apart. 
to keep it on topic, care was taken with their assembly, which is why it has taken about a month to build each carriage.
richard 

Very nice work Richard especially the painting. May I ask what kits you made these from, or perhaps they are your own etchings?

 

William

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Morning Tony

Ebay is like any auction house you need two or three people bidding for any item , it’s like watching certain tv programs the experts can give a valuation but on the wrong day /crowd and items can sell at bargain prices.

I think in the past you have listed kits and invited offers ? with the number of viewing you attract on here give it a month for offers , obviously only if this is allowed on this website.

Dennis

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2 hours ago, sandra said:

Tony,

 

Its very difficult to answer this question simply. Generally unbuilt kits are more desirable than kit built locomotives unless the locomotives have been very well built, particularly if the builder was a ‘name’ in the hobby. Also models of locomotives that do not have an RTR equivalent command a higher price than those for which an RTR model is available.

 

It also depends on the desirability of the model, for example any model of a Raven Pacific will command a high price whether it has been built or not but a not very desirable model, say a Tilbury Tank, will not. 
 

On eBay it is possible to find very cheap DJH kits of locos such as A1s or A2s because there are RTR equivalents and lots of these kits were made. Similarly it’s possible to buy cheap locomotives which have been very badly built but which will require lots of work.3A91D352-7865-4FFF-9200-275FC4B6F204.jpeg.52f3d65704f00efac276e5476e2e569c.jpegThis is an A1 I bought for £40, rather remarkably in spite of its appearance it did run and whilst it looks awful it is complete with motor and wheels so it is a very cheap way of acquiring a complete kit. However the amount of work required to turn this ugly duckling into a swan is enormous.49B35D8A-C5CB-4428-9294-EA8CD5801C16.jpeg.2f1c818ab8b1a448cfe3a16d692a6696.jpegThis is the same locomotive today as running on Retford. I’m not entirely happy with it but I think it does look better. It is actually a very old kit dating back to DJH’s days in Banbury. The amount of work involved to produce this locomotive in this condition was enormous. In fact I think it would have been much easier to start with an unbuilt kit. I did ditch the open frame motor in the loco and substituted a Mashima motor and High Level gearbox but apart from that no other parts were changed.

 

Sandra

I'm intrigued that you're 'not entirely happy with it' - I would be utterly amazed if I ended up with anything remotely as good as this especially considering what you started with!

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On 23/05/2021 at 09:39, LNER4479 said:

That's awful, isn't it? I know that the whole Chinese manufacturing thing makes our models more affordable than our European counterparts but ...

 

Might I suggest build quality has nothing to do with which country it was screwed together in.

 

In the 1970s British workers were building HSTs and British Leyland cars. I know which I'd rather use as a form of transport and which to use as a source of screws and nuts...

 

Steven B.

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33 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I'm intrigued that you're 'not entirely happy with it' - I would be utterly amazed if I ended up with anything remotely as good as this especially considering what you started with!

It’s still got a feeling of unsquareness (is that a word) about it. I did completely dismantle the loco and rebuild it but I think some of the casting have been permanently damaged possibly by the loco being dropped before I bought it. 
 

However I don’t think it looks too bad and as a layout loco passing through Retford at a scale 65 mph it’s fine. If it was subjected to close-up photography  its faults would be more apparent.

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4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

I'd just like a sort of ball-park figure to be able to price these sort of things fairly. At least 10% of all sales will go to CRUK.

 

Many thanks in anticipation

eBay as previously mentioned is just an online auction house. Prices achieved there vary considerably due to a variety of reasons, not least of which is accurate description, good images, and listing it in the right section. eBay will give you easy access to a wide market which is one of its benefits.

 

For the kits, if not using eBay or similar, why not start at Y% of retail (choose % of choice) or very near offer? That’d be as good a place to start as any. 

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1 hour ago, Steven B said:

 

Might I suggest build quality has nothing to do with which country it was screwed together in.

 

In the 1970s British workers were building HSTs and British Leyland cars. I know which I'd rather use as a form of transport and which to use as a source of screws and nuts...

 

Steven B.

 

 

Also often comes down to beancounters putting their oars in.

 

Cost me a couple of hundred quid on my last car to fix an issue which saved them 24p (cheap rubbish valve seals)

Edited by MJI
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4 hours ago, sandra said:

Tony,

 

Its very difficult to answer this question simply. Generally unbuilt kits are more desirable than kit built locomotives unless the locomotives have been very well built, particularly if the builder was a ‘name’ in the hobby. Also models of locomotives that do not have an RTR equivalent command a higher price than those for which an RTR model is available.

 

It also depends on the desirability of the model, for example any model of a Raven Pacific will command a high price whether it has been built or not but a not very desirable model, say a Tilbury Tank, will not. 
 

On eBay it is possible to find very cheap DJH kits of locos such as A1s or A2s because there are RTR equivalents and lots of these kits were made. Similarly it’s possible to buy cheap locomotives which have been very badly built but which will require lots of work.3A91D352-7865-4FFF-9200-275FC4B6F204.jpeg.52f3d65704f00efac276e5476e2e569c.jpegThis is an A1 I bought for £40, rather remarkably in spite of its appearance it did run and whilst it looks awful it is complete with motor and wheels so it is a very cheap way of acquiring a complete kit. However the amount of work required to turn this ugly duckling into a swan is enormous.49B35D8A-C5CB-4428-9294-EA8CD5801C16.jpeg.2f1c818ab8b1a448cfe3a16d692a6696.jpegThis is the same locomotive today as running on Retford. I’m not entirely happy with it but I think it does look better. It is actually a very old kit dating back to DJH’s days in Banbury. The amount of work involved to produce this locomotive in this condition was enormous. In fact I think it would have been much easier to start with an unbuilt kit. I did ditch the open frame motor in the loco and substituted a Mashima motor and High Level gearbox but apart from that no other parts were changed.

 

Sandra

A remarkable transformation!

 

I take my hat off to you, Sandra. 

 

Speaking with another friend yesterday, he told me he's acquired un-built DJH kits for A1s/A2s for between £80.00 and £90.00, which seems very reasonable. These are complete with wheels (though the wheels are the generic Romfords), and, in one case, a motor/gearbox! 

 

You're right there are lots of them, and lots of them were made - many, in my experience, similar to the blue one above. I don't know whether I'd take anything like that on; in fact, I know I wouldn't! 

 

I'd say £100.00 was fair for an un-built DJH LNER Pacific, more, perhaps, for the likes of the A3 which, apparently, is no longer made. Whether my assessment is 'realistic' will remain to be seen. 

 

Thanks for your input (and, once more, your donations).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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3 hours ago, D.Platt said:

Morning Tony

Ebay is like any auction house you need two or three people bidding for any item , it’s like watching certain tv programs the experts can give a valuation but on the wrong day /crowd and items can sell at bargain prices.

I think in the past you have listed kits and invited offers ? with the number of viewing you attract on here give it a month for offers , obviously only if this is allowed on this website.

Dennis

Good afternoon Dennis,

 

Though selling stuff on general threads is not encouraged, because what I try to find new homes for is on behalf of bereaved families and/or for CRUK (and other charities), it's allowed on here.

 

My 'donation' is to check if things work if they're built (and repair them if necessary) or to check that all parts are present in kits.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

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Tony

I see you are building a DJH A3 ,will you be going though it’s build ? I have two to build in the near future so any tips on things to avoid would be welcome.

Dennis

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1 hour ago, D.Platt said:

Tony

I see you are building a DJH A3 ,will you be going though it’s build ? I have two to build in the near future so any tips on things to avoid would be welcome.

Dennis

Will do Dennis...................

 

Though I've built DJH A3s for customers in the past, the two which run currently on Little Bytham were made by others.......................

 

122043747_A360104DJH.jpg.696337c8a4459316e07d1c1d5634ec02.jpg

 

312236533_08A360104DJH.jpg.860bf59697a4a9a2a8c7e6437076d519.jpg

 

60104 was built by Allen Hammet and used to belong to Tony Geary. It was a stalwart on Charwelton.

 

Tony had two, the other being 60106 (another Charwelton A3, and also built by Allen).

 

60106.jpg.9543e5c3e9e3e742a494143350fe8c85.jpg

 

When Tony graduated to 7mm, his OO Gauge locos and stock were sold-on - in the case of FLYING FOX to Gilbert Barnatt for use on his Peterborough North layout.

 

The other DJH A3 I have is slightly out of time.................

 

60080.jpg.39b61f6cd5c44e5c5f1a3b32474cf1be.jpg

 

This one was built by Steve Naylor, and I acquired it by some barter. Steve painted it and I renumbered/renamed/weathered it.

 

When I complete the latest DJH A3, it'll mean I have one which I've made myself. It'll become 60046, complete with streamlined non-corridor tender.

 

I'll post pictures of my progress.........................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Will do Dennis...................

 

Though I've built DJH A3s for customers in the past, the two which run currently on Little Bytham were made by others.......................

 

122043747_A360104DJH.jpg.696337c8a4459316e07d1c1d5634ec02.jpg

 

312236533_08A360104DJH.jpg.860bf59697a4a9a2a8c7e6437076d519.jpg

 

60104 was built by Allen Hammet and used to belong to Tony Geary. It was a stalwart on Charwelton.

 

Tony had two, the other being 60106 (another Charwelton A3, and also built by Allen).

 

60106.jpg.9543e5c3e9e3e742a494143350fe8c85.jpg

 

When Tony graduated to 7mm, his OO Gauge locos and stock were sold-on - in the case of FLYING FOX to Gilbert Barnatt for use on his Peterborough North layout.

 

The other DJH A3 I have is slightly out of time.................

 

60080.jpg.39b61f6cd5c44e5c5f1a3b32474cf1be.jpg

 

This one was built by Steve Naylor, and I acquired it by some barter. Steve painted it and I renumbered/renamed/weathered it.

 

When I complete the latest DJH A3, it'll mean I have one which I've made myself. It'll become 60046, complete with streamlined non-corridor tender.

 

I'll post pictures of my progress.........................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good evening  Tony,

 

what a shame that the DJH A3 has gone, I really liked it. It was far superior to it's Hornby replacement, The latter contributed many exciting new features, such as standing on tip toe tender, cow catcher bogie, ski jump running board and drunken valve gear.

 

The only thing that required improvement on the kit, was the top of the firebox, it being two straight between the rear tube plate and the spectacle plate. A big flat file, with careful attention to the boiler band, was all that was required to give it a nice slope. More could be added to suit the taste of the individual but that would be just gilding the lily.

 

Mushy Peas has now received it's 5 amp replacement pipe runs.

 

1578449049_5amppiperuns.jpg.8c74861fa455196a1a81b71923222862.jpg

Edited by Headstock
forgot my Mushy Pea update.
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9 hours ago, ecgtheow said:

Very nice work Richard especially the painting. May I ask what kits you made these from, or perhaps they are your own etchings?

 

William

They are worsley works etches for the floor, sides and ends. The rest you make yourself. Luckily I was offered some d&s etches for most of the bogies. I hade to use one as a master to make an extra one. 
they were enjoyable to build.

richard 

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Signalbox lighting is something that I can actually comment on.... On late and night turns it is very rare to have any light on other than the light over the booking desk, I've asked around an this seems to be the case with every bobby I work with, and with the old lags that have retired. Our booking desk is on the back wall and so the frame and block shelf are in semi-darkness with only the indicator lights illuminating them.

Its interesting but the bits of a penguin block instrument I have, actually have the 'Train on line, Line Blocked and Line Clear' labels printed in a sort of reflective manner, which presumably accounts for the semi-darkness they were operated in (We're a bit more modern in our box, no block instruments required).

 

As for the HR Rivers Tony, I believe that they were originally released as a limited edition (indeed I have one of those in the red box), but became part of the normal range, and were available up until they last cull they had, when I bought at least one. The price then was £90 for the bare kit. That should hopefully give you a ball park figure.

 

Andy G

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2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening  Tony,

 

what a shame that the DJH A3 has gone, I really liked it. It was far superior to it's Hornby replacement, The latter contributed many exciting new features, such as standing on tip toe tender, cow catcher bogie, ski jump running board and drunken valve gear.

 

The only thing that required improvement on the kit, was the top of the firebox, it being two straight between the rear tube plate and the spectacle plate. A big flat file, with careful attention to the boiler band, was all that was required to give it a nice slope. More could be added to suit the taste of the individual but that would be just gilding the lily.

 

Mushy Peas has now received it's 5 amp replacement pipe runs.

 

1578449049_5amppiperuns.jpg.8c74861fa455196a1a81b71923222862.jpg

Good evening Andrew,

 

Yes, I'm sorry the DJH A3 seems to have disappeared from the range.

 

On the ones I built, I altered the firebox top so that it sloped down towards the cab. Otherwise, it's too straight at the top.

 

Lovely wiggly pipes!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Andrew,

 

Yes, I'm sorry the DJH A3 seems to have disappeared from the range.

 

On the ones I built, I altered the firebox top so that it sloped down towards the cab. Otherwise, it's too straight at the top.

 

Lovely wiggly pipes!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

it's well worth altering the firebox top on the A3, it's a little bit like the lack of cab side sheet slope on the DJH A1. I like to think that it's a little test set by DJH, to make sure the modeler is paying attention. I hope that the A1 kit remains in the catalogue, as it is also miles ahead of the RTR equivalent.

 

Despite its faults, the Hornby A 2/3, is probably the best RTR non streamlined LNER pacific available to buy. Perhaps it is also superior to the Hornby A4, having better cylinders and valve gear, the correct tender ride height, half decent bogie wheels and no horrible front coupling. The superbly effective Rathbone Hornby A4 repaint, featured up thread, pretty much edges out any other RTR competitor. It makes the standard Hornby models, that are featured in the same post, look like plastic toys.

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I've just been sent a list of kits which I'll attempt to sell on behalf of a bereaved family.

 

I'll be collecting them at the weekend, and I'm told they're complete (some with wheels). 

 

I'm putting the list on here to give folk a chance to express an initial interest, though they'll not go up for sale until I've personally checked them.

 

Alan Gibson

4M153A

LMS Crab rivetted tender

Alan Gibson

4M34A

LMS Black 5 short firebox

Brassmasters

-

LMS Rebuilt Royal Scot

Brassmasters

-

LMS Rebuilt Royal Scot

Brassmasters

-

LMS Black 5 long firebox

Brassmasters

-

LMS Black 5 short firebox

Brassmasters

-

LMS Jubilee long firebox

Brassmasters

-

LMS Rebuilt Royal Scot

Brassmasters

-

LMS Unrebuilt Patriot

Brassmasters

-

LMS 3,500 gal snap rivet tender beaded

Brassmasters

-

LNWR G1/G2 0-8-0

Caley Coaches

CC17

Caledonian D87A/D101 6-wheel CCT

Caley Coaches

CC7

Caledonian D115A 57' lavatory brake comp

Caley Coaches

CC2

Caledonian D112B 57' corridor composite

Caley Coaches

CL5

Caledonian Cl900 Dunalastair III

Caley Coaches

CL2a

Caledonian Class 812

Chivers

RC127

LNER Diag 7 bogie CCT

Comet

LK14

LMS Caprotti Black 5

Comet

LK14

LMS Caprotti Black 5

Dave Bradwell

-

WD Austerity 2-8-0

Dave Bradwell

-

WD Austerity 2-8-0

Dave Bradwell

-

9F chassis

DJH

K37

HR/LMS Castle

DJH

K66

HR/CR/LMS River

DJH

K66

HR/CR/LMS River

DJH

K39

WD Austerity 2-10-0

DJH

K39

WD Austerity 2-10-0

MAJ

-

LMS D1899 corridor third

PDK

-

LNER/BR Scottish Director D11/2

PDK

-

NB/LNER Holmes J36

Perseverance

LC404

LMS Fowler 4P 2-6-4 tank chassis

Perseverance

LC404

LMS Fowler 4P 2-6-4 tank chassis

Perseverance

LC004

LNER A3 chassis

Perseverance

LC004

LNER A3 chassis

 

Many thanks to Robert Carroll for sorting these out.

 

And, thanks to Andy York and the moderators for allowing me to do this. 

 

If anyone is initially-interested, please PM me. 

 

I've not set prices yet. What I won't be doing is setting up an auction, so, please, no 'bidding wars'. That said, if anyone immediately offers what I consider to be a 'fair' price then he/she gets it first. 

 

10% of all sales will go to CRUK. Postage costs will have to be met by the purchasers (though visitors might like to collect them). 

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7 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening Tony,

 

it's well worth altering the firebox top on the A3, it's a little bit like the lack of cab side sheet slope on the DJH A1. I like to think that it's a little test set by DJH, to make sure the modeler is paying attention. I hope that the A1 kit remains in the catalogue, as it is also miles ahead of the RTR equivalent.

 

Despite its faults, the Hornby A 2/3, is probably the best RTR non streamlined LNER pacific available to buy. Perhaps it is also superior to the Hornby A4, having better cylinders and valve gear, the correct tender ride height, half decent bogie wheels and no horrible front coupling. The superbly effective Rathbone Hornby A4 repaint, featured up thread, pretty much edges out any other RTR competitor. It makes the standard Hornby models, that are featured in the same post, look like plastic toys.

Good morning Andrew,

 

I think the 'superbly effective Rathbone Hornby A4 repaint, featured up thread, pretty much edges out any other RTR competitor. It makes the standard Hornby models, that are featured in the same post, look like plastic toys' edges out many (if not most) kit-built competitors as well...............

 

Here it is again.............

 

69790923_60008panning01.jpg.99b4edf3e9ef3c7c88bff83ea6ae2c8c.jpg

 

In comparison with two Pro-Scale A4s, both painted by Ian Rathbone.

 

2135597554_MALLARDpanning.jpg.591d6a5e33ef645dd8dd9099e373204c.jpg

 

Does an all-metal one just have the edge?

 

2143233991_KINGFISHERpanning.jpg.63be3bdd37fb32c94d3343d649c4a0bf.jpg

 

Even if the image of it is slightly blurred?

 

Mick Peabody started making 60022 and 60024, but handed them over to me, saying the complex curves were too tricky - he's more of a narrow gauge modeller!

 

I have another Pro-Scale A4 to build.............................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Andrew,

 

I think the 'superbly effective Rathbone Hornby A4 repaint, featured up thread, pretty much edges out any other RTR competitor. It makes the standard Hornby models, that are featured in the same post, look like plastic toys' edges out many (if not most) kit-built competitors as well...............

 

Here it is again.............

 

69790923_60008panning01.jpg.99b4edf3e9ef3c7c88bff83ea6ae2c8c.jpg

 

In comparison with two Pro-Scale A4s, both painted by Ian Rathbone.

 

2135597554_MALLARDpanning.jpg.591d6a5e33ef645dd8dd9099e373204c.jpg

 

Does an all-metal one just have the edge?

 

2143233991_KINGFISHERpanning.jpg.63be3bdd37fb32c94d3343d649c4a0bf.jpg

 

Even if the image of it is slightly blurred?

 

Mick Peabody started making 60022 and 60024, but handed them over to me, saying the complex curves were too tricky - he's more of a narrow gauge modeller!

 

I have another Pro-Scale A4 to build.............................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Good morning Tony,

 

Too close to call for me on that one, as you end up judging photographs rather locomotives, photo one being the best IMO. I prefer the Hornby body to the SEF version, Proscale is harder to evaluate and then there is the mighty Finney. Having picked up a Hornby body for peanuts, ostensibly for the V cab, I might favour a modified Hornby body, with a Comet or Perseverance chassis and suitable Finney or PDK brass tender. That method has worked successfully for me in the past, by combining the best of both worlds for class A3. Be it RTR or kit, you still need a decent paint/livery finish, that is not necessarily guaranteed these days by just buying RTR.

Edited by Headstock
Missing letter.
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