Jump to content
 

Please use M,M&M only for topics that do not fit within other forum areas. All topics posted here await admin team approval to ensure they don't belong elsewhere.

Wright writes.....


Recommended Posts

24 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

There's a model of the Hush Hush in the NRM annexe which is (as I recall) roughly contemporary with the original.   You'd assume that that was painted to match, as the builder would have known and be able to look at the real one.   How are the buffer beams treated on that?

ISTR that there's one in Darlington, in the excellent "Head of Steam" museum, too?

 

Mark

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

The contemporary Wills cigarette card of Hush Hush shows the buffer beam as red although I appreciate that is hardly a definitive historical record!  Presumably the illustration was produced with some reference to the subject.  

 

https://br.pinterest.com/pin/664773594993748068/

 

Also, there is a large head on shot of the locomotive in (the rather excellent) LNER Reflections published by SLP all those years ago.   This clearly shows the front buffer beam and housings in a very light tone particularly compared with the tone of the buffer heads and smokebox.

 

Alan

Edited by PupCam
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Re Hush Hush,

 

This one has come around again. A couple of points please.

 

The Bufferbeam on the real loco was painted grey. The Loveless example that Tony photographed and often posts, is a pre production model. The completed model offered for sale, had the corrected grey bufferbeam and light grey shaded lettering.

 

There is only one truly contemporary model of the Hush Hush, this was built by the Darlington apprentices at the same time as the real locomotive. It used the identical paint as the real thing.

 

https://www.deviantart.com/stumm47/art/LNER-10000-115616879

 

Unfortunately, the locomotive was damaged in a fire at Darlington works. As part of the insurance claim, the loco model was repainted but in a scheme that did not match the original. The original paint specification and paint chips for Hush Hush does survive, so there is no excuse to get it wrong today.

 

The O gauge Ace kit example is to light and probably based on the repainted Darlington apprentice model. However, it does have a few features that were correct for a short time. Some of the black areas such as the roof were present when the loco made its first run when it was delivered by rail, it is possible the grey finish was incomplete at this time as it appears to be matt. Also missing on this first run was the large grab handle mounted on the front platform, as is correctly absent from the model. The black areas were quickly painted out grey before it began its proper mainline trials and operation. The only black areas to remain so painted, were the backhead, the inside of the coal space and the water filler space.

 

P.S. Hush Hush was not painted 'Battleship grey', there is no such thing as 'Battleship grey'. Battleships were painted so many shades of grey, you would soon run out of fingers and toes trying to count them all.

Edited by Headstock
add info
  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

image.png.e0c8e499aefb8eefa947c613d9575727.png

My (not brilliant) photo of the model Hush Hush in the Head Of Steam Museum, Darlington. The Model was apparently built by Apprentices at Darlington Works and would presumably show the correct livery, though I understand it may have been repainted at some time.  The buffer stocks appear to be the same shade of grey as the overall superstructure.

 

I originally posted this on the Hornby 'Hush Hush' thread where the precise shade of grey was under discussion.

           

Regards,

 

                John

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Not all that much!

 

I think it's fair (if not charitable) to say that diesels proved not to be North British's forte. 

 

John

 

Dapol have done the D61xx though the differences before/after rebuilding (or subsequent) are outside my range of knowledge. They had already made a pretty decent job of the D63xx hydraulics, so hopefully they are good too. Maybe Clive could comment? 

 

I've one of the Dapol D63xx/class 22s - I seem to recall I won it in a raffle. Here's what it looks like:

 

827662308_2019-12-04-16_35.00ZSPMaxrep.jpg.d403aa9589180773df94d910321adffa.jpg

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Re Hush Hush,

 

This one has come around again. A couple of points please.

 

The Bufferbeam on the real loco was painted grey. The Loveless example that Tony photographed and often posts, is a pre production model. The completed model offered for sale, had the corrected grey bufferbeam and light grey shaded lettering.

 

There is only one truly contemporary model of the Hush Hush, this was built by the Darlington apprentices at the same time as the real locomotive. It used the identical paint as the real thing.

 

https://www.deviantart.com/stumm47/art/LNER-10000-115616879

 

Unfortunately, the locomotive was damaged in a fire at Darlington works. As part of the insurance claim, the loco model was repainted but in a scheme that did not match the original. The original paint specification and paint chips for Hush Hush does survive, so there is no excuse to get it wrong today.

 

The O gauge Ace kit example is to light and probably based on the repainted Darlington apprentice model. However, it does have a few features that were correct for a short time. Some of the black areas such as the roof were present when the loco made its first run when it was delivered by rail, it is possible the grey finish was incomplete at this time as it appears to be matt. Also missing on this first run was the large grab handle mounted on the front platform, as is correctly absent from the model. The black areas were quickly painted out grey before it began its proper mainline trials and operation. The only black areas to remain so painted, were the backhead, the inside of the coal space and the water filler space.

 

P.S. Hush Hush was not painted 'Battleship grey', there is no such thing as 'Battleship grey'. Battleships were painted so many shades of grey, you would soon run out of fingers and toes trying to count them all.

Good morning Andrew,

 

I think you've provided the 'definitive' answer; thank you.

 

The reason I use my images from time to time is because the question keeps cropping up (I, obviously, have no prototype pictures). 

 

My mention of 'battleship grey' is because that is the colour described in so many publications. What was its official description? 

 

Another question? What is the origin of the loco's nickname? In the early '70s, I taught with a guy whose father had worked on 10000, and he said the name came from the 'secrecy' surrounding its building. However, a (late) professional railwayman I spoke to decades ago, who'd actually fired it, said it was because of the sound it made when running.

 

Interesting.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more locos for sale on behalf of a good cause................

 

All the builders of these are unknown (one of the chaps who might have known is no longer with us). 

 

938100920_DJHU.jpg.6a2e36f2123980e08512b29e308ace91.jpg

 

A DJH U. A beautiful runner.

 

1655139450_GEMGeorgetheFifth.jpg.84a3fa5c52c3fcd73fc1a2ae782f83ba.jpg

 

A GEM George the Fifth. Mounted on a Tri-ang L1 mechanism, it's a remarkably good runner. 

 

42698329_LY2-4-2T.jpg.3d72c36dcea9f038d55e04ff9726a1ee.jpg

 

An ex-L&Y 2-4-2T (anyone know whose kit this might be?). Despite its K's wheels, it runs fine. 

 

441664834_StephenPooleY5.jpg.d5e0228fbd9621d94bf4706d866636ac.jpg

 

A Stephen Poole Y5. It has a K's HP2M motor, which means it's not that quiet. That said, it's visually very smooth. 

 

425595440_WatfordTank.jpg.a8ced8957da6b2c7500fcdf7919c96b5.jpg

 

And a Watford Tank (again, anyone know what this kit might be, please?). Another beautiful runner.

 

I've checked all these out, cleaned and oiled them as necessary. Would anyone interested in buying any, please PM me. 

 

 

  • Like 3
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
14 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

In the early '70s, I taught with a guy whose father had worked on 10000, and he said the name came from the 'secrecy' surrounding its building.

 

That was the reason given in an encyclopedia my Grandfather had that I used to read avidly (well, the railway and aircraft related bits) in the early 60's as a young boy.  

 

Of course, encyclopedias by their very nature  are not specialist publications and presumably are (were?) produced by jobbing researchers/authors, are not definitive references and were always out of date.    Or is that an appalling generalisation!

 

Alan

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Andrew,

 

I think you've provided the 'definitive' answer; thank you.

 

The reason I use my images from time to time is because the question keeps cropping up (I, obviously, have no prototype pictures). 

 

My mention of 'battleship grey' is because that is the colour described in so many publications. What was its official description? 

 

Another question? What is the origin of the loco's nickname? In the early '70s, I taught with a guy whose father had worked on 10000, and he said the name came from the 'secrecy' surrounding its building. However, a (late) professional railwayman I spoke to decades ago, who'd actually fired it, said it was because of the sound it made when running.

 

Interesting.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good afternoon Tony,

 

I'm not sure if there was an official description. I would have to go trawling through tons of stuff to check. I recall it was a mix of two colours, one was a 'named grey' and I think the other was charcoal. I know that Laurie Loveless examined the Darlington apprentice model and found evidence of the original paint work, the repaint is well documented in the insurance claim. There was talk raising money to restore the Darlington model to its original condition but nothing seems to have come of it.

 

I think that the term 'Hush Hush' predates the completion of the locomotive, this would fit as there was a great deal of secrecy surrounding its design and construction. However, there is no doubt the locomotive had a very distinctive 'whispering'  exhaust, one that would fit with the onomatopoeia nature of 'Hush Hush'.

 

There is a clip of colour film of the locomotive, traveling with the dynamometer car at perhaps thirty or forty miles per hour and prior to the fitting of the double chimney. The exhaust is unlike any other LNER locomotive, having eight beats (more like pulses) to the turn of the wheel. Those on a thread in another place, wishing to equip their high pressure 4 cylinder compound, with DCC sound from A4, seem to have little understanding of either locomotive.

  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
1 hour ago, Headstock said:

There is a clip of colour film of the locomotive, traveling with the dynamometer car at perhaps thirty or forty miles per hour and prior to the fitting of the double chimney.

 

Is it available online, do you have a link please?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PupCam said:

 

Is it available online, do you have a link please?

 

Good afternoon PupCam,

 

I think the film is on one of the steam on 35 mm video / DVD / Whatever. I haven't looked at it in years. However, I did an online search and came up with this rather poor copy, that looks like it has been filmed off the TV screen.

 

I think that the original was probably BW not colour, just my memory cheating.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf2k7xVxcYo

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
7 minutes ago, Headstock said:

I think the film is on one of the steam on 35 mm video / DVD / Whatever.

 Thanks.  Sounds like one of John Huntley's offerings.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, PupCam said:

 Thanks.  Sounds like one of John Huntley's offerings.

 

 

I think so, I can't remember which one, I will have a look later. The unique nature of the exhaust is quite apparent, even in the poor quality copy seen in the link.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Another question? What is the origin of the loco's nickname? In the early '70s, I taught with a guy whose father had worked on 10000, and he said the name came from the 'secrecy' surrounding its building. However, a (late) professional railwayman I spoke to decades ago, who'd actually fired it, said it was because of the sound it made when running.

 

Interesting.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

What noise does a galloping sausage actually make? 

  • Funny 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

I think so, I can't remember which one, I will have a look later. The unique nature of the exhaust is quite apparent, even in the poor quality copy seen in the link.

https://www.huntleyarchives.com/results.asp?txtkeys1=Hush Hush&category=RR

 

This looks like the clip (towards the end) in the Huntley Archive.    Whilst I don't doubt the loco had a sound all of its own, the source states that the film is silent.  

 

Are you sure the sound on the clip is not just a bit of generic dubbing (please tell me it's not a Castle or a King!)?

 

Alan

Edited by PupCam
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, PupCam said:

https://www.huntleyarchives.com/results.asp?txtkeys1=Hush Hush&category=RR

 

This looks like the clip (towards the end) in the Huntley Archive.    Whilst I don't doubt the loco had a sound all of its own, the source states that the film is silent.  

 

Are you sure the sound on the clip is not just a bit of generic dubbing (please tell me it's not a Castle or a King!)?

 

Alan

 

My apologies Alan, 

 

I don't quite understand your post. There is no sound recording of the locomotive, all we can go on is the ear witness reports that describe the uniqueness of that sound. I was referring to the way the smoke visually exited the chimney in the clip. At eight beats per rev and at speed, it must have sounded like a whispering machine gun.
 

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
5 minutes ago, Headstock said:

There is no sound recording of the locomotive, all we can go on is the ear witness reports that describe the uniqueness of that sound. I was referring to the way the smoke visually exited the chimney in the clip. At eight beats per rev and at speed, it must have sounded like a whispering machine gun.

 

Ah, sorry !    We're at cross-purposes but that's sorted now.     What we need is a clever fluid dynamicist with a very big computer to model the steam paths, valve events and other factors in order to actually re-create the sound.     That'll rule me out then!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

My apologies Alan, 

 

I don't quite understand your post. There is no sound recording of the locomotive, all we can go on is the ear witness reports that describe the uniqueness of that sound. I was referring to the way the smoke visually exited the chimney in the clip. At eight beats per rev and at speed, it must have sounded like a whispering machine gun.
 

Or, with 8 beats per revolution, Maunsell Lord Nelson :scratchhead:

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium

I'm not sure at all that 10000 would have 8 beats per revolution - as it was a compound, only the low pressure cylinders would exhaust to atmosphere, making 4 beats from the two low pressure cylinders.  The only explanation would be that when working simple engine to start, the high pressure cylinders exhausted to atmosphere - I find that hard to believe as it would really complicate matters.

 

Castle and Kings etc didn't have 8 beats either - the cylinders exhausted together .  The Nelsons did have 8 though!

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Something new (and unusual?) on Little Bytham today. 

 

1849795591_HornbyNBType2.jpg.a4e90c31b9077950199b0ac2f114a24f.jpg

 

This is a conversion from a Hornby NB diesel-hydraulic Type 2 into one of the (ill-fated) diesel-electric ones, completed by a friend.

 

He's done a lot of work on the original, and I think it looks quite presentable. No doubt Clive will tell us (I hope) what's wrong (or, with luck, what's right) with it.

 

With its original wheels opened out to the correct b-t-b and its flanges turned down, it actually works (astonishingly) well through all types of pointwork, even with its pancake-type motor.  Yes, I know the wheels should be spoked. 

For what it's worth - I saw that loco, on delivery from Doncaster along with D6112, approaching Chesterton Junction on the St.Ives loop (now the infamous misguided busway).

 

Stewart

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

I'm not sure at all that 10000 would have 8 beats per revolution - as it was a compound, only the low pressure cylinders would exhaust to atmosphere, making 4 beats from the two low pressure cylinders.  The only explanation would be that when working simple engine to start, the high pressure cylinders exhausted to atmosphere - I find that hard to believe as it would really complicate matters.

 

Castle and Kings etc didn't have 8 beats either - the cylinders exhausted together .  The Nelsons did have 8 though!

Of course. I forgot it was a compound. You are right

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...