Wright writes.....

[PMP]

27 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

My recollection of Bristol Models products were that they were best avoided if possible.

Crude, badly designed and in

 

Somebody once called them " the worst kits ever" but I think they were no worse than some from McGowan or MTK (cast)  Jidenco (etched).

That ties in with my anecdotal memories of them from working at Kings Cross. However there were a couple of Bristols which were popular. They did some small industrials, which were the only UK outline industrial kits at the time I believe. As such they were sought after and sold quickly new or second hand.

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, Clem said:

I understand your preference Tony, but I've found that if you build a High-Level gear box taking care to follow the tips and instructions that come with it and ensuring it is square etc. it invariably results in very sweet running. They don't take long to knock up and the advantage of being able to be hidden more easily than the DJH boxes. The folk I've spoken to that use them - me included - swear by them (not at them!). As I said, I do understand your preference but it's only fair to have the case made for the other side of the story heard.

Good afternoon Clem,

 

I'm more than happy to present the case for High-Level 'boxes (and Comet, Markits, Branchlines, Backwoods Miniatures, Porter's Cap, etc, etc). The point here is that (in all cases), they have to be made. Now, to you (and me, and countless others) that's not a problem, and a sweet-running prime mover is the result. I have two beautifully-running locos fitted with H-L 'boxes I've made.

 

Someone opined on here that if a guy/girl can't build a gearbox, why are they even attempting to build a loco kit? With respect, I find that opinion naive. Why? I've (literally) lost count of the number of locos I've had through my hands (many professionally-built/-painted) which have been erected (visually, in static-mode) very well, often with an excellent paint job. Then, I try to run them. They're stiff, jerky, noisy and the total opposite of what I'd accept. Often the noise and the stiffness can be traced to the motor/gearbox combination not having been put together properly (conversely, I've also handled locos which look rubbish, but run really sweetly!). 

 

Whenever I've been a loco-doctor/tutor/demonstrator, the most-difficult thing my 'pupils' seem to be able to do is to get a loco running perfectly. Granted, that's often not just because of the gearbox they might have made (outside valve gear seems to be anathema to most!), but their 'body-building' isn't too bad. 

 

What I showed yesterday (I accept, in a 'controlled' experiment) was how much sweeter a runner a loco fitted with a DJH 'box was compared with one fitted with a High-Level 'box. In fact, any of the 100-odd locos I have fitted with a DJH 'box would have been sweeter/quieter (as would the two fitted with H-L 'boxes which I've made). 

 

I suppose the fact is (and it is a fact) that every DJH made-up motor/gearbox combination I've used has worked perfectly at source - quiet, smooth and powerful, and just a drop-in into the frames (all within ten minutes). Interestingly, DJH no longer supplies its gearboxes as kits. Why? Because so many were returned having been erected poorly. 

 

As I've stated, the two H-L 'boxes I've put together work just as well as any DJH one, but I had to make them (certainly not in ten minutes - I'm nowhere near that competent/quick). In that making, there was always the risk of things not turning out as sweetly as hoped. 

 

I agree, DJH 'boxes are nowhere near as flexible and certainly are more difficult to hide than in other types (though they're not a problem in a B1, and certainly not in the 'barn' interior of an LNER Pacific, Mikado or V2). They're also far more expensive. However, in my experience, they give excellent running, immediately, at source. Not only that, in my days as a professional loco-builder, they actually saved constructional time, and, in many cases, resulted in a 'cheaper' option for the end-user. 

 

To conclude, I think High-Level 'boxes provide 'perfect' running; provided they're built 'perfectly'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Tony Wright
typo error

[t-b-g]

40 minutes ago, PupCam said:

 

 

Absolutely superb image - it could be real!

 

 

There isn't much that gives it away as being a model until you really start peering very closely indeed and even then, it isn't much at all. I like the composition. It is the sort of scene that, if you were there for real, you would point your camera at and take that photo.

 

So many model photos are scenes that, in real life, the photographer would not have bothered with. They would have tried to get a better view, or a better angle, or got a bit closer to the subject before pressing the shutter. A tiny number of photographers went for a more creative approach and pulled it off. Most photos taken, by a long way, had a loco as the main focal point and anything around or in the background was a bonus. 

 

There is nothing wrong with more distant shots of layouts to show the overall scene or setting but if you are looking to recreate the sort of photos that were common in the vast majority of books or magazines published, views such as this really "nail it".

[SJR]

I recall purchasing a Bristol Models motorising kit (complete with Bulldog motor and Romford wheels) for the Airfix 9F when I lived in the UK in 1985.

I tried to build it the following year when I returned to NZ. . A waste of time and money though I found an alternate use for motor and wheels.

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

Some B1s to wake up to on a Wednesday morning? What could be better!

Very-natural, Dylan,

 

Tom Foster's work?

 

Exactly as I remember seeing most B1s. 

 

Just one thing (there always is with me!), please junk those dreadful Hornby bogie wheels. When you come down here soon, I'll give you a replacement Markits set!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, landscapes said:

Hi Tony

 

Carrying on with the BI theme, this was Hornby B1 61039 Steinbok, which I weathered then  renamed and numbered to 61025 Pallah as I had photographic evidence of it on Haymarket MPD.

 

Regards

 

David

Beautiful work, David,

 

Thanks for showing us. 

 

I'm glad you changed it from 61039. She had a rebuilt tender, with no central valance between the steps and beneath the soleplate.

 

New bogie wheels? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

My recollection of Bristol Models products were that they were best avoided if possible.

 

Crude, badly designed and in some cases impossible to build without alteration.

 

Somebody once offered Roy Jackson an unbuilt kit. I can't remember if it was a B1 or a V2. His was response was to offer thanks and to say that he would melt it down to use as weight in a decent model.

 

Somebody once called them " the worst kits ever" but I think they were no worse than some from McGowan or MTK (cast)  Jidenco (etched).

Thanks Tony,

 

It looks like I've just forked-out 20 quid for some ballast.

 

How much lead would I get for £20.00?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

Hornby’s Stembok, 61032 (not 39) was an excellent source of B1s, especially as it was sold off cheap for a while and didn’t have the name attached making it easier to renumber. Here is my version, renumbered to Hitchin regular 61097.

 

[t-b-g]

4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

It looks like I've just forked-out 20 quid for some ballast.

 

How much lead would I get for £20.00?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

If you got a runner out of a Millholme 4MT, a McGowan D9 and  BEC D11 you should be fine with it!

 

I am not going to join in the gearbox discussion this time around. I said all I had to say last time. All I will say is that if High Level Gearboxes require perfect assembly, how come mine work? I have never achieved perfection yet and I am pretty sure that I never will.

 

 

[Clearwater]

Tony,

 

A question on the DJH/High level gearbox debate.  Are the DJH ones put together in a factory by a machine?  I'm wondering if the reason they run sweetly is that they don't have the inaccuracies that might creep in, particularly from the less skillful, in manual assembly?

 

David

[Northmoor]

34 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

It looks like I've just forked-out 20 quid for some ballast.

 

How much lead would I get for £20.00?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

About half a church roof in some parts of the country, I would guess.....

 

Rob

[Barry Ten]

There was some discussion recently about whether there's any value in old Lima, or who would bother with it now.

 

The Lima 08 was the only half-way decent looking model of its prototype, and my model is now well over 40 years old. It never ran well but since I wanted an 08, I spent a bit of time detailing it. You probably wouldn't bother now as the Bachmann and Hornby models are streets ahead, both with detail and cab proportions, but in the spirit of I'll started, so I'll finish ...

 

My 08 has been treated to a new ex-CD drive motor, which cost me less than ten pounds including postage and a motor mount. It's  simple swap-in for the Lima unit and retains the gearing and wheels of the original. It makes a huge difference to the running, being both quieter, and much more capable of slow stops and starts. I thinned down the coupling rods and lowered the body on the chassis by about 1mm, which is easily done just by trimming a little plastic here and there. Incidentally, even with the Lima wheels and flanges, it seems fine on C+L and Peco bullhead track.

 

 

 

 

[Norton961]

Re building Jidenco wagon kits, yes some can be built into a decent model, but the first hurdle to cross is that as supplied for vans and CCTs the sides are full length and the ends full width so the don’t fold up into a box! The solution is to break off the ends, trim, clean up and then solder to the folded up sides. The etches were drawn out by a person who had no concept of assembly. 
The under frames and castings can usually be consigned to the bin.

 

David

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

If you got a runner out of a Millholme 4MT, a McGowan D9 and  BEC D11 you should be fine with it!

 

I am not going to join in the gearbox discussion this time around. I said all I had to say last time. All I will say is that if High Level Gearboxes require perfect assembly, how come mine work? I have never achieved perfection yet and I am pretty sure that I never will.

 

 

I did qualify 'perfectly' by putting it into inverted commas, Tony.

 

Meaning, nothing is perfect. 

 

Yours work because of your skill-level, expertise and experience. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Clearwater said:

Tony,

 

A question on the DJH/High level gearbox debate.  Are the DJH ones put together in a factory by a machine?  I'm wondering if the reason they run sweetly is that they don't have the inaccuracies that might creep in, particularly from the less skillful, in manual assembly?

 

David

David,

 

Though I'm not entirely sure, I believe the DJH 'boxes are assembled at the factory by one highly-skilled person (I think, female; not that that should make any difference). They're probably put together using some form of jig; resulting in the inherent accuracy, but, at a price. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Dylan Sanderson]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Very-natural, Dylan,

 

Tom Foster's work?

 

Exactly as I remember seeing most B1s. 

 

Just one thing (there always is with me!), please junk those dreadful Hornby bogie wheels. When you come down here soon, I'll give you a replacement Markits set!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

That's very kind of you Tony! I'll make sure to bring her.

 

Of course! Superb work as always.

[Jeepy]

Hello everyone, 

 

I wonder, may i ask a question with reference to soldering technique please? 

I consider myself fairly proficient at soldering although I'm certainly not an expert, i can successfully solder layout wiring, brass etch, nickel silver and whitemetal but as seperate entities, for example, whitemetal bus kits, brass etch and nickel silver for experimenting with signals, and layout wiring, all of which i enjoy doing, i have a cheap seperate temperature controlled soldering station for whitemetal and only use it for that purpose as i have set the knob exactly where i need it for 70 degree solder! 

I have a more powerful soldering station for brass and nickel silver and a portable 25w Antex for electrical work, however, i have never tried soldering whitemetal to brass etch before, i have a couple of Roxey Mouldings coach kits that i would like to build which consist of both materials. 

Will 70 degree solder suffice or will that not enable the whitemetal to 'stick' to the brass please? 

 

Thank you, in anticipation, 

 

Jim. 

[Jeepy]

3 minutes ago, Jeepy said:

Hello everyone, 

 

I wonder, may i ask a question with reference to soldering technique please? 

I consider myself fairly proficient at soldering although I'm certainly not an expert, i can successfully solder layout wiring, brass etch, nickel silver and whitemetal but as seperate entities, for example, whitemetal bus kits, brass etch and nickel silver for experimenting with signals, and layout wiring, all of which i enjoy doing, i have a cheap seperate temperature controlled soldering station for whitemetal and only use it for that purpose as i have set the knob exactly where i need it for 70 degree solder! 

I have a more powerful soldering station for brass and nickel silver and a portable 25w Antex for electrical work, however, i have never tried soldering whitemetal to brass etch before, i have a couple of Roxey Mouldings coach kits that i would like to build which consist of both materials. 

Will 70 degree solder suffice or will that not enable the whitemetal to 'stick' to the brass please? 

 

Thank you, in anticipation, 

 

Jim. 

I hasten to add that use Rosin flux mostly or Hobby Holidays 'no clean' flux for electrical work, i also possess some 9% phosphorus acid flux but have never used it! 

 

Thank you, 

 

Best wishes, 

 

Jim. 

[Clem]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The point here is that (in all cases), they have to be made.

Fair point, Tony.

[Northmoor]

2 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

There was some discussion recently about whether there's any value in old Lima, or who would bother with it now.

 

The Lima 08 was the only half-way decent looking model of its prototype, and my model is now well over 40 years old. It never ran well but since I wanted an 08, I spent a bit of time detailing it. You probably wouldn't bother now as the Bachmann and Hornby models are streets ahead, both with detail and cab proportions, but in the spirit of I'll started, so I'll finish ...

 

My 08 has been treated to a new ex-CD drive motor, which cost me less than ten pounds including postage and a motor mount. It's  simple swap-in for the Lima unit and retains the gearing and wheels of the original. It makes a huge difference to the running, being both quieter, and much more capable of slow stops and starts. I thinned down the coupling rods and lowered the body on the chassis by about 1mm, which is easily done just by trimming a little plastic here and there. Incidentally, even with the Lima wheels and flanges, it seems fine on C+L and Peco bullhead track.

 

 

 

 

Lima locos may be crude but they have a robust-ness that a lot of newer models lack.  Obviously they lack some details now considered a normal basic level, but it's easier to forgive yourself making a mistake adding the details to a sub-£20 Lima diesel than the latest £120 equivalent.  

Running-wise, I've certainly heard of many more stories of 21st Century locos whose running has deteriorated below an acceptable level, than 1980s/90s Lima.  The older models aren't smooth (and if the gear mesh is poor, ear-splitting!) but they run for ever.

Lima's steam loco models were pretty good (dimensionally) above the running plate, somewhere between poor and abysmal below it, but like my Lima 08s, I have a couple that I cherish as the locos of my youth.  Some of them were my earliest repainting attempts; not sure I want to share images of those on this thread.....

[Chuffer Davies]

29 minutes ago, Jeepy said:

Hello everyone, 

 

I wonder, may i ask a question with reference to soldering technique please? 

I consider myself fairly proficient at soldering although I'm certainly not an expert, i can successfully solder layout wiring, brass etch, nickel silver and whitemetal but as seperate entities, for example, whitemetal bus kits, brass etch and nickel silver for experimenting with signals, and layout wiring, all of which i enjoy doing, i have a cheap seperate temperature controlled soldering station for whitemetal and only use it for that purpose as i have set the knob exactly where i need it for 70 degree solder! 

I have a more powerful soldering station for brass and nickel silver and a portable 25w Antex for electrical work, however, i have never tried soldering whitemetal to brass etch before, i have a couple of Roxey Mouldings coach kits that i would like to build which consist of both materials. 

Will 70 degree solder suffice or will that not enable the whitemetal to 'stick' to the brass please? 

 

Thank you, in anticipation, 

 

Jim. 

Hi Jim,

the trick is to tin the brass with your usual solder (145 deg?) first and then use low melt to solder the white metal to the tinned brass (or n/silver)…

Good luck!

Frank

[ScRSG]

Or you can also use 100 degree solder which "sticks" to both brass and whitemetal, tend to keep the iron on the brass side and let it flow to the whitemetal with the flux.

 

[Jeepy]

8 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Jim,

the trick is to tin the brass with your usual solder (145 deg?) first and then use low melt to solder the white metal to the tinned brass (or n/silver)…

Good luck!

Frank

Ahh! That makes sense! Thanks ever so much Frank, when i next get a chance i will experiment with some scraps of brass and whitemetal using the method you mention, i use flux cored 60/40 for electrical but i do possess a packet of 145 degree solder and a packet of 188 degree solder, i shall try with the 145 to start with and see how i get on, I just didn't want to perhaps ruin the kits experimenting and end up with a blob of whitemetal that used to be a suspension component or something! I do really enjoy 'playing' with soldering though, thanks again! 

 

Best wishes, 

 

Jim. 

[polybear]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

It looks like I've just forked-out 20 quid for some ballast.

 

How much lead would I get for £20.00?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Perhaps regard it as a challenge - a sponsored TW build to raise funds for CRUK?  If so then you can count me in.....

[t-b-g]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I did qualify 'perfectly' by putting it into inverted commas, Tony.

 

Meaning, nothing is perfect. 

 

Yours work because of your skill-level, expertise and experience. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

The thing I don't understand is why somebody with your skill and ability and your preference for making things yourself, spends twice as much on a ready made gearbox that sticks out like a sore thumb under the boiler of some of your smaller locos.

 

They really are not difficult to make. I have had complete novices put one together at Missenden with a "Come and see me if you get stuck" and half an hour later they come to show me a finished, smooth running box, done with no help at all.

 

I don't understand why you regard then as requiring skill. Which bit do you mean? The two folds in the metal frame? Putting in the bearings? Or putting the gears on the shafts?

 

That is really all there is to them.