Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

I'm signing off for the day now............ Phew!

 

I believe it's one nil to England! 

 

Thanks again for all the sales today. 

[Dunsignalling]

The problem with kit built locos built by others is that, if by an amateur, the long term success of ones purchase is uncertain, even if someone with Tony's ability can get it going satisfactorily for now.

 

Whoever the builder was, it was made to someone else's specification, which may or may not tally with what anybody else wants.

 

The best way to find out is the notorious on-line auction, where it will reach the widest audience. As with all auctions, though, high prices will be obtained only if more than one person wants it badly enough to outbid others, even perhaps going beyond what we who aren't interested consider it to be "worth".

 

My own experiences with other people's kit builds have been mixed to put it politely and I have broken up a couple that proved beyond redemption and re-used what I can, if anything. I therefore fully understand offers being made of less than the (apparent) value of the sum of the parts. 

 

John

[LNER4479]

45 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I believe it's one nil to England! 

 

Not any more it isn't ...

[Chuffer Davies]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

There's no imperative to 'come clean', John, though thanks all the same. 

 

Despite my initial 'depressed' comments of earlier today, I'm happy to report that now I've made over £2,000.00 for the widow, with more promised. My most grateful thanks to those kind folk who've committed to buying them. 

 

There are still some more, of course...................

 

 

A scratch-built J50 and scratch-built N1. 

 

 

From the construction, I'm sure these are the work of the late John Edgson (Isinglass). 

 

Massive KTM motors were the order of the day back then. 

 

A J50 is available RTR now, of course.............. However, that's just made of plastic. 

 

 

But not an N1, so it's scratch or a kit, like this Little Engines example. 

 

The Ivatt 4 (Millholme) is definitely available RTR, and the Bachmann example is certainly superior. But, this one has 'character'. 

 

Next, a couple from your part of the world...........

 

 

The K1 is built from a Nu-Cast kit, and is an absolute beauty. It runs as well as it looks. Interestingly, I have some of the provenance for this. It was a commission for Nu-cast to build, and the price quoted for the work (building/painting) was around £250.00 (nearly 40 years ago, and not including parts). I'll be lucky to get than now! 

 

The class is also now available RTR from Hornby, at far less than the all-those-years-ago build cost of this.

 

As for the T1? What chance of that coming out RTR? A cold day in Hell?

 

This is built from a Little Engines kit, by Ron Goult himself.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Hi Tony,  Can I go dibs on the scratch built J50 please?

Cheers,

Frank

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I know Tim Watson of CF drops in on here from time to time.

 

Would you mind sending me a PM, please, Tim? Looking through my sources, I don't have your contact details, other than at Guy's. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

You could send him a PM yourself, to @CF MRC.

[Iain.d]

I don’t ordinarily contribute to this sort of discussion and don’t wish to cause any offence with my clumsy words. I have read the comments on the buying / selling of stock from deceased estates with some interest. I think its difficult all around, there’s no easy answer.

 

I have no issues spending a bit more through a forum thread like this than I might through ebay or a similar route. The main reasons being that I believe where my money is going is to worthwhile causes (both the estate and charity), the stock has been tested and serviced and has been through the hands of someone with credibility – if they say it works, it works. While I like to build my own stuff, I’m not averse to seeing someone else’s dream or creation live on a little longer; I know I would appreciate what I had bought.

 

In terms of the money though, I struggle to know what someone else thinks is a fair price.  I was very interested in either of the DJH Austerities and had an offer in mind of about 200GBP plus postage to Australia (the last loco cost 27GBP to send). Then later knowing that there was an expectation of offering the cost of components plus 50 or so pounds for building, would push either of these to over 450GBP made me glad I didn’t offer. I’m not in a position to afford this and would have felt personally embarrassed had I suggested 200GBP. That said, I’m fully aware that my offer would have remained private.

 

I think what Tony is doing is really honourable and I appreciate the lengths he is going to and frustration of the process. I don’t think anyone will see my modelling after I’m gone, no one in my family is the slightest bit interested so it’ll be in the op shop or in landfill.

 

I would really like to ‘do my bit’ to find homes for some of this stock, so I would encourage, if possible the production of a list of stock and an expected price.  This might help manage expectations all around but I also understand that this would be an additional thing to do.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The problem with kit built locos built by others is that, if by an amateur, the long term success of ones purchase is uncertain, even if someone with Tony's ability can get it going satisfactorily for now.

 

Whoever the builder was, it was made to someone else's specification, which may or may not tally with what anybody else wants.

 

The best way to find out is the notorious on-line auction, where it will reach the widest audience. As with all auctions, though, high prices will be obtained only if more than one person wants it badly enough to outbid others, even perhaps going beyond what we who aren't interested consider it to be "worth".

 

My own experiences with other people's kit builds have been mixed to put it politely and I have broken up a couple that proved beyond redemption and re-used what I can, if anything. I therefore fully understand offers being made of less than the (apparent) value of the sum of the parts. 

 

John

Thanks John,

 

None of the locos in question was built by an 'amateur' (though 'professionally-built' can mean anything). In some cases, they've got provenance - DJH, Little Engines, Nu-Cast, Crownline as builders. Some of the prices asked were quite high; 30-40 years ago! 

 

Having checked every one now, I've priced them accordingly. The 'poorer' ones ('poor' is a relative term, I know, but it's down to their running in the main. In my experience, this is usually the Achilles' heel of kit-built locos. That dear old A2/2 went for £75.00 (even though it ran well) and the really good ones (in terms of both looks and performance), so far have gone for around £500.00. Despite my being 'out of touch', I'm extremely gratified that my prices are now being realised (over £500.00 more this morning!). 

 

I know I cannot give a guarantee, though I can say with some confidence that they 'work' That has to be qualified, of course. Someone asked about the NER locos with outside cylinders and bogies, but they have tight curves (by 'tight', I mean less than 3'). Not really viable, I'm afraid. 

 

I know all of these were built to someone else's specification, though 'really good-running' was not on the spec' of a small number. But, who defines 'good-running'? Many locos I've examined described thus have been ghastly. Does 'good-runner' mean it'll negotiate a dead-straight yard of Peco, backwards and forwards - just? It would seem so, and (thankfully) none of these locos fits into that dubious category. 

 

Certainly, if someone commissioned some of these locos now, the prices would be way above what I'm asking, but then the commissioner would specify exactly what he/she wanted. At a price, of course. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, Iain.d said:

I don’t ordinarily contribute to this sort of discussion and don’t wish to cause any offence with my clumsy words. I have read the comments on the buying / selling of stock from deceased estates with some interest. I think its difficult all around, there’s no easy answer.

 

I have no issues spending a bit more through a forum thread like this than I might through ebay or a similar route. The main reasons being that I believe where my money is going is to worthwhile causes (both the estate and charity), the stock has been tested and serviced and has been through the hands of someone with credibility – if they say it works, it works. While I like to build my own stuff, I’m not averse to seeing someone else’s dream or creation live on a little longer; I know I would appreciate what I had bought.

 

In terms of the money though, I struggle to know what someone else thinks is a fair price.  I was very interested in either of the DJH Austerities and had an offer in mind of about 200GBP plus postage to Australia (the last loco cost 27GBP to send). Then later knowing that there was an expectation of offering the cost of components plus 50 or so pounds for building, would push either of these to over 450GBP made me glad I didn’t offer. I’m not in a position to afford this and would have felt personally embarrassed had I suggested 200GBP. That said, I’m fully aware that my offer would have remained private.

 

I think what Tony is doing is really honourable and I appreciate the lengths he is going to and frustration of the process. I don’t think anyone will see my modelling after I’m gone, no one in my family is the slightest bit interested so it’ll be in the op shop or in landfill.

 

I would really like to ‘do my bit’ to find homes for some of this stock, so I would encourage, if possible the production of a list of stock and an expected price.  This might help manage expectations all around but I also understand that this would be an additional thing to do.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

Thanks Iain,

 

Your comments are much-appreciated.

 

As you say, all offers 'remain private', other than my mentioning an amount, but not the identity of he/she who made the offer. In fairness, many are 'ignorant' of what something might be worth, and are 'afraid' of causing embarrassment. I understand this, though £70.00 offered for one of the really good locos did show rather a lack of understanding. 

 

At the moment, I'm carrying on as before, and I'm delighted things are going well. As you observe, I try to cover the cost of the components and then get some more (a DJH Austerity ordered today complete would be in excess of £200.00). In some cases, I'm only trying to get what the models cost 40 years ago!

 

I'll see how things progress, then present a list of what's left, priced accordingly.

 

Thanks for your support.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

May I apologise now if anyone feels they've been 'left out' in offering monies for these models?

 

I've just received a rather irate PM from someone who obviously feels I've been disingenuous. My apologies to him if that's what he feels.

 

I'll mention an item and/or provide a picture, and someone will immediately make an offer (even before I've really considered what something might be worth). During that process, someone else might have come in, and, without my getting into a 'bidding war', also expresses an interest. 

 

It's not a question of my 'not telling anyone', it's just the way it is. I'll accept an offer, then someone feels miffed that I've 'not told them'. 

 

I can't win. As I say, when this lot's gone - no more! 

[Tony Wright]

Ah well,

 

At least there's plenty of interest on WW. Another 100 pages clocked up!

[gwr517]

Congratulations on reaching  page 2400. You don't know me but I read this blog daily and have done for years. After watching you DVD on loco constuction I thought I would try to build a kit and following a couple of emails with the late Mr. Brewin I was away. I now model the GWR preWW1 in EM just to make it hard for myself on the other side of the world! 

Thank you for guiding me through the process of becoming a bulder of chasiss that work,

Doug.

Western Australia.

Edited July 12, 2021 by gwr517
spelling

[Tony Wright]

9 minutes ago, gwr517 said:

Congratulations on reaching  page 2400. You don't know me but I read this blog daily and have done for years. After watching you DVD on loco constuction I thought I would try to build a kit and following a couple of emails with the late Mr. Brewin I was away. I now model the GWR preWW1 in EM just to make it hard for myself on the other side of the world! 

Thank you for guiding me through the process of becoming a bulder of chasiss that work,

Doug.

Western Australia.

What a wonderfully-uplifting post.

 

Thank you so much, Doug. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Chamby]

10 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Ah well,

 

At least there's plenty of interest on WW. Another 100 pages clocked up!

 

2400 - The Raven A2 City of Newcastle.  As a non-RTR mainline locomotive, only available kit-built, that’s rather fitting for this thread!

[Bernard Lamb]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

May I apologise now if anyone feels they've been 'left out' in offering monies for these models?

 

I've just received a rather irate PM from someone who obviously feels I've been disingenuous. My apologies to him if that's what he feels.

 

I'll mention an item and/or provide a picture, and someone will immediately make an offer (even before I've really considered what something might be worth). During that process, someone else might have come in, and, without my getting into a 'bidding war', also expresses an interest. 

 

It's not a question of my 'not telling anyone', it's just the way it is. I'll accept an offer, then someone feels miffed that I've 'not told them'. 

 

I can't win. As I say, when this lot's gone - no more! 

I do not see any thing to apologies about Tony.

You are not running a commercial business and have no need to show any openness to any body.

You are just passing on models, very specific models in many cases. to any one who has an interest and raising money for a good cause.

I have a similar arrangement where I buy picture frames at a very cheap price from a local charity shop and reuse them. Given the time involved it is hardly worth the bother but I get a certain amount of satisfaction in keeping items in use.

There must be a limited number of these quality collections and my feeling is that in a few years time they will fetch very much less than they currently do. Without the work that you have been doing this day will arrive sooner rather than later.

I looked at the D20 but then thought that for a realistic price  given the faults and limitations it was not worth making an offer. That I fear will be the limiting factor in several cases.

Bernard

[Mallard60022]

17 hours ago, Barry O said:

I sold a lot items for a former Early Riser who had died. I sent a set of six Hornby A4s to Vectis.

 

A)  they realised a lot more than on ebay

B) Vectis charged less than EBay and Paypal  would have done

C) it was a lot less hassle than selling on Ebay especially with the new wave of timewasters who have arrived on EBAY since lockdown began.

 

Baz

My apologies then Barry. I have only bought through Vectis and found them wanting. I withdraw my previous comments as I respect your view on stuff. When the day comes, Vectis for my stuff then?

Phil 

[Mallard60022]

25 minutes ago, gwr517 said:

Congratulations on reaching  page 2400. You don't know me but I read this blog daily and have done for years. After watching you DVD on loco constuction I thought I would try to build a kit and following a couple of emails with the late Mr. Brewin I was away. I now model the GWR preWW1 in EM just to make it hard for myself on the other side of the world! 

Thank you for guiding me through the process of becoming a bulder of chasiss that work,

Doug.

Western Australia.

Doug, it may interest you that the late Geoff B (RIP) told me about your situation back then. It was memorable as you were very far away. He and TW are responsible for many a now great modeller.

Oh yes, can't resist a misquote; "They thought it was all over. It is now!"

Phil

[Anglian]

21 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Just a couple of points.

Re the Make up Brushes; I once saw a layout where there was a beautifully soft brush or maybe a couple, over the tracks 'off stage' where every train would run eventually. I think it was after the FY Throat at one end IIRC? The bristles were so soft and did not catch anything (steam and diesel era) and such a soft touch from the bristles.

Also, Vectis charge large amounts of commission and 30% to buyers + postage. I would seriously consider other outlets. There are a couple of other Auction houses that do Toys and Models at less commission.

 

Sadly there are none of these engines that I would be able to use. Not even the SR ones. Sorry about that.

Sincerely,

Phil

 

I have such a brush. It's over 60 years old. The brush was sold as a watercolour wash brush. I imagine they are still made.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Anglian

[MikeParkin65]

37 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Ah well,

 

At least there's plenty of interest on WW. Another 100 pages clocked up!

Dare I ask what ‘WW’ is please?

[Headstock]

On 11/07/2021 at 10:19, Clem said:

You're very welcome. Think of it as a small pay back for all the inspirational posts of yours (and others). I had considered doing exactly as your suggestion at first but I couldn't see how you could get the detail off without writing it off. In the end the filing was the only option other that scratch building all the detail. One short cut I now use - but it is a bit risky is to use a mini drill with a mini milling attachment . By going down to about 0.5mm depth every couple of millimetres you get a ploughed field effect which can then be filed as normal until the areas are flat. In doing this, the file seems to make far quicker progress. But you have to be careful not to go too deep with the milling attachment.

 

Good morning Clem,

 

I'm not to keen on using electrical spinney things for such tasks. My solution if I was batch building, make a jig. Something a bit like a cofferdam with the wagon sitting upside down. It would then be a case of filing back to the top level of the jig with a big file.

 

If you have a copy of Robothams 'Great Central Railway's London Extension', there is possibly the best photograph of one of the Gypsum trains on page 42. There is an extensive 15 line caption that waffles on about all sorts but completely misidentifies the train as a general goods! I have this low quality scan that was sent to me of a J39 shunting hoppers and minerals at Rushcliffe Halt. We are looking north with the train snaking around into the sidings at Hotchley Hill, notice the Charles Roberts hopper under the bridge. The station still exists in, there wasn't enough room to add in an island platform in the original build. The Gypsum works is also still in existence, located off to the right.

 

[LNER4479]

10 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Dare I ask what ‘WW’ is please?

Abbreviation of the title of this 2400-page long (and counting) thread?

[St Enodoc]

5 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Abbreviation of the title of this 2400-page long (and counting) thread?

Or, thinking of the last few pages, Won't Work?

[Clem]

21 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Clem,

 

I'm not to keen on using electrical spinney things for such tasks. My solution if I was batch building, make a jig. Something a bit like a cofferdam with the wagon sitting upside down. It would then be a case of filing back to the top level of the jig with a big file.

 

If you have a copy of Robothams 'Great Central Railway's London Extension', there is possibly the best photograph of one of the Gypsum trains on page 42. There is an extensive 15 line caption that waffles on about all sorts but completely misidentifies the train as a general goods! I have this low quality scan that was sent to me of a J39 shunting hoppers and minerals at Rushcliffe Halt. We are looking north with the train snaking around into the sidings at Hotchley Hill, notice the Charles Roberts hopper under the bridge. The station still exists in, there wasn't enough room to add in an island platform in the original build. The Gypsum works is also still in existence, located off to the right.

 

Morning Andrew.

Yes I know Hotchley Hill very well. It's now part of the GCR (heritage) northern section and still, I believe, used by BR or whatever it is now (or was until recently) for gypsum traffic via the main line spur connection with the ex-MR at Loughborough. Yes I do know this photo and have the book. Hmm ... a Charles Roberts for the second vehicle and at least some of the 13 tonners as modelled by Parkside.

The approach you suggest for filing down the underside is a good idea but I'm not sure how easy making up a jig would be as it would have to accomodate the detail which sits above the plate. Let me know if you do one so I can see how you've done it. It also shows why you are a first rate modeller and I'm just a bodger .

 

While I'm posting, do you have any idea what is the origin of this type of hopper (see below). This is at Rutland Railway Museum. I've noticed one or two of these in the ore trains on the Derby line. Obviously private owner. I wondered if they are an earlier version of the 22T/24T ones.

 

 

 

[MJI]

14 minutes ago, Clem said:

Morning Andrew.

Yes I know Hotchley Hill very well. It's now part of the GCR (heritage) northern section and still, I believe, used by BR or whatever it is now (or was until recently) for gypsum traffic via the main line spur connection with the ex-MR at Loughborough. Yes I do know this photo and have the book. Hmm ... a Charles Roberts for the second vehicle and at least some of the 13 tonners as modelled by Parkside.

The approach you suggest for filing down the underside is a good idea but I'm not sure how easy making up a jig would be as it would have to accomodate the detail which sits above the plate. Let me know if you do one so I can see how you've done it. It also shows why you are a first rate modeller and I'm just a bodger .

 

While I'm posting, do you have any idea what is the origin of this type of hopper (see below). This is at Rutland Railway Museum. I've noticed one or two of these in the ore trains on the Derby line. Obviously private owner. I wondered if they are an earlier version of the 22T/24T ones.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

P101011 – Built by Charles Roberts in 1926 for the Sheepbridge Iron & Steel Co. and subsequently nationalised but retained for ore traffic.

 

 

https://www.rocks-by-rail.org/exhibit/hopper-wagons/

Edited July 12, 2021 by MJI

[MikeParkin65]

57 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Abbreviation of the title of this 2400-page long (and counting) thread?

Ah - obvious now, thanks  

[Headstock]

20 minutes ago, Clem said:

Morning Andrew.

Yes I know Hotchley Hill very well. It's now part of the GCR (heritage) northern section and still, I believe, used by BR or whatever it is now (or was until recently) for gypsum traffic via the main line spur connection with the ex-MR at Loughborough. Yes I do know this photo and have the book. Hmm ... a Charles Roberts for the second vehicle and at least some of the 13 tonners as modelled by Parkside.

The approach you suggest for filing down the underside is a good idea but I'm not sure how easy making up a jig would be as it would have to accomodate the detail which sits above the plate. Let me know if you do one so I can see how you've done it. It also shows why you are a first rate modeller and I'm just a bodger .

 

While I'm posting, do you have any idea what is the origin of this type of hopper (see below). This is at Rutland Railway Museum. I've noticed one or two of these in the ore trains on the Derby line. Obviously private owner. I wondered if they are an earlier version of the 22T/24T ones.

 

 

 

 

As has been noted, they were an earlier Charles Roberts design, they were used by other Iron works in addition to Sheepbridge. The RTR stretched hoppers are often sold in liveries that would be more appropriate to these and other earlier hopper designs.