Wright writes.....

[t-b-g]

13 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Very nice models indeed.

 

The L&Y is an oft forgotten railway. The Highflyers ran through and around Wigan on the Pemberton loop line with non stop Liverpool - Manchester expresses in competition with the CLC & LNWR routes back at the turn of the 20th century

The loop line I saw from Mum & Dads bedroom window - alas just a goods line back in the 60's).

 

Highflers on Walkden station & water troughs on the 4 track Hindley to Manchester line - there is talk of converting this line to a tram line !! - How have the mighty fallen !!

 

 

 

 

In 1884 Hoy moved to the L&YR, becoming an outdoor assistant in the locomotive department under Barton Wright in Manchester; he was promoted to works manager a year later. In 1886 Hoy was made works manager at the L&YR's new works at Horwich. Hoy died in 1910

 

Nigel Gresley began his engineering apprenticeship in 1893 under Francis Webb at the Crewe locomotive works, London and North Western Railway. Subsequently he was a pupil of John Aspinall of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway at Horwich, near Bolton; he then became an assistant manager at their carriage workshops at Newton Heath, Manchester, in 1901, and works manager in the following year. In 1904 Gresley was appointed assistant carriage and wagon superintendent of the L&YR, and, in 1905, he transferred to the Great Northern Railway in Doncaster as carriage and wagon superintendent. 

 

I wonder what (if any) influence his time at Horwich had on Mr Gresley ?

 

Brit15

 

I once had, in my sticky little mitts, a handwritten letter from John Aspinall to his former "pupil" congratulating him on the announcement of his knighthood. There was clearly great affection between them. The letter suggested that Gresley should talk to the people organising the ceremony to make sure that he ended up as Sir Nigel rather than Sir Herbert, as Nigel was his middle name.

 

I recall the letter wasn't addressed to "Nigel" or to "Herbert" but to a name that was adopted by friends and family of Gresley. I can't recall what it was but it was a name like Henry or George. The letter ended up in the archives of, I think, the GNRS so may have been published in their magazine.

[gr.king]

Regarding the L & Y Hoy 2-6-2T, I'm sure I've read that they were originally built with flangeless (centre) driving wheels, but suffered with derailments in consequence. Were they then altered to have flanges all round?

 

Surely that kit built (glued?) C1 above cries out to at least have the joints between the cab roof and the side-sheets filled and blended? A smooth wrap-over look is absolutely fundamental to the Stirlings, Ivatt and earlier Gresley cabs, along with one or two others.

[APOLLO]

Many years ago my father found a book on a second hand book stall. It is "The principles of mechanics" by T M Goodeve, dated 1891

 

What is interesting is not really the book, but what was stuck on the fly leaf just inside. Here is a (poor quality unfortunately) scan.

 

 

Brit15

[Darryl Tooley]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

to a name that was adopted by friends and family of Gresley.

That would be 'Tim', but I'm not sure that Aspinall ever called him that.  Of the three letters of which I have copies on file, two open with 'Dear Mr Gresley'.  A  transcript of the third is below:

 

Dear Sir Herbert Gresley,

 

I was very pleased to read this morning of your creation as a Knight Bachelor and hope you may live long to enjoy the honour.

 

It is very appropriate recognition of a Railway Mechanical Engineer not only on account of mechanical successes but also for having maintained effectively the status of the Chief Mechanical Engineer of a Railway.

 

When you go to Buckingham Palace to receive the actual Knighthood you will be asked whether you wish to be called Sir Herbert or Sir Nigel and then you will be able to let me know how to address you in future.

 

With my very best wishes for your continued success in life.

 

I am your old master,

 

John Aspinall

 

 

D

 

[t-b-g]

1 minute ago, Darryl Tooley said:

That would be 'Tim', but I'm not sure that Aspinall ever called him that.  Of the three letters of which I have copies on file, two open with 'Dear Mr Gresley'.  A  transcript of the third is below:

 

Dear Sir Herbert Gresley,

 

I was very pleased to read this morning of your creation as a Knight Bachelor and hope you may live long to enjoy the honour.

 

It is very appropriate recognition of a Railway Mechanical Engineer not only on account of mechanical successes but also for having maintained effectively the status of the Chief Mechanical Engineer of a Railway.

 

When you go to Buckingham Palace to receive the actual Knighthood you will be asked whether you wish to be called Sir Herbert or Sir Nigel and then you will be able to let me know how to address you in future.

 

With my very best wishes for your continued success in life.

 

I am your old master,

 

John Aspinall

 

 

D

 

 

Thanks for that. I saw quite a few items of family correspondence and the Tim must have been on another letter. His Grandson was named Tim so the name remained in the family.

 

One of the other letters was from Mrs. Stanier, writing about the LMS speed record being beaten by a duck!

 

Another was wishing Gresley well after his shooting accident but I can't recall who that was from.

[St Enodoc]

18 minutes ago, Darryl Tooley said:

That would be 'Tim', but I'm not sure that Aspinall ever called him that.  Of the three letters of which I have copies on file, two open with 'Dear Mr Gresley'.  A  transcript of the third is below:

 

Dear Sir Herbert Gresley,

 

I was very pleased to read this morning of your creation as a Knight Bachelor and hope you may live long to enjoy the honour.

 

It is very appropriate recognition of a Railway Mechanical Engineer not only on account of mechanical successes but also for having maintained effectively the status of the Chief Mechanical Engineer of a Railway.

 

When you go to Buckingham Palace to receive the actual Knighthood you will be asked whether you wish to be called Sir Herbert or Sir Nigel and then you will be able to let me know how to address you in future.

 

With my very best wishes for your continued success in life.

 

I am your old master,

 

John Aspinall

 

 

D

 

It is perhaps worth mentioning that Sir Nigel Gresley was one of the select few to have been Presidents of both the Institution of Mechanical Engineers and the Institution of Locomotive Engineers (the others were Lt Col Edwin Kitson Clark, Sir Henry Fowler, Sir William Stanier, Oliver Bulleid and Roland Bond). Sir John Aspinall was himself IMechE President in 1910, the year before the ILocoE was formed.

[30368]

The dreaded ProScale V2 KIt....

 

Just to say a great thankyou to Tony for promising the A4 instructions and Andrew for the scanned V2 instructions. Lots of really helpful advice and tips also offered for which I am very grateful.

I will also look at earlier discussions regarding the V2.

 

Now that I have finished my Drummond S11 I am now painting the D15 4-4-0 that I built some time ago and when that is finished I plan to start the V2 kit.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[Mike 84C]

Those L&Y 0-8-0's always make me think of an elephant balancing on a drum, still like them though!

[MJI]

Just looking at a plastic loco body.

 

I need to move all washout plugs and inspection hatches.

 

Midland Railway.

 

How would I make new ones?

 

Anyone do etched panels?

 

Thanks

[Michael Edge]

6 hours ago, gr.king said:

Regarding the L & Y Hoy 2-6-2T, I'm sure I've read that they were originally built with flangeless (centre) driving wheels, but suffered with derailments in consequence. Were they then altered to have flanges all round?

 

 

The other way round, flanges were removed in an effort to improve these useless things. Only two of them even got LMS numbers and they didn't last long after that, I think the last one staggered on as Wigan L&Y's shed pilot, they were supposed to be an improvement on the very successful 2-4-2Ts but failed completely. The 0-8-0s were much better but let down by inadequate axleboxes, they were seen off by the influx of WD 2-8-0s after WW2 but a few did survive to get BR numbers.

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, gr.king said:

Regarding the L & Y Hoy 2-6-2T, I'm sure I've read that they were originally built with flangeless (centre) driving wheels, but suffered with derailments in consequence. Were they then altered to have flanges all round?

 

Surely that kit built (glued?) C1 above cries out to at least have the joints between the cab roof and the side-sheets filled and blended? A smooth wrap-over look is absolutely fundamental to the Stirlings, Ivatt and earlier Gresley cabs, along with one or two others.

I think it was the other way round, Graeme,

 

For any passenger work they might have done, they were meant to supersede the smaller (though far more-efficient) 2-4-2Ts, but failed dismally, and ended their days on shunting duties, in some cases in yards with sharp curves (hence the removal of the centre drivers' flanges). I stand to be corrected, of course. (Just noticed Mike Edge's post above - thanks Mike).

 

I don't know how the C1 was put together. Having now seen the photos (the builder doesn't 'do' RMweb), Bob might well do what you suggest. Photographs always highlight any anomalies in construction. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Tony Wright
to add something

[gr.king]

I bet you didn't let him get away, without comment, with 8 spoke wagon wheels (apparently on pin-point axles) in the bogie.

[Tony Wright]

The recent L&Y items seemed to have generated a fair bit of interest. Thanks for all the comments.

 

Of possible further interest......................

 

 

Bachmann's release of one of the attractive 2-4-2Ts RTR must have brought attention to the L&Y.

 

 

Apart from this Craftsman 0-6-0, I don't remember ever having built an L&Y loco.

 

 

Geoff Haynes made it go (in EM Gauge) and then painted it for a customer. 

 

Lancs & Yorks locos could be seen on Calderwood................

 

 

Such as this similar (identical?) 0-6-0 to the one I built.

 

 

Or this rather lumpen 0-8-0.

 

 

A more-attractive 0-8-0?

 

 

Certainly, two rather nice tanks. 

 

Ogden Fold's L&Y depiction was (is) in P4..................

 

 

Another rather pretty tank.

 

 

And another.

 

 

The 'Highfiers' (or is it 'Highflyers') had a certain style, spoiled (in my opinion) by the puny tender. 

 

And finally.................

 

 

A kit-built 2-4-2T in OO from where or whence I cannot remember........................... 

[geoff west]

12 hours ago, jrg1 said:

What glues are you using?

Don't tell Sir.

[jamie92208]

58 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The recent L&Y items seemed to have generated a fair bit of interest. Thanks for all the comments.

 

 

..........

 

 

A kit-built 2-4-2T in OO from where or whence I cannot remember........................... 

I know that GEM made a WM kit of that prototype. I almost got it to run but that was over 40 years ago.

 

Jamie

[thegreenhowards]

I have a soldering problem and where better to ask than on this thread!

 

By way of context, we are trying to construct working point rodding for our club 0 gauge layout using the DCC concepts products. These are designed for 00, but are rather overscale and, to my eyes, look quite good for 0 gauge. The sales pitch suggests using them with a point motor to give an impression of point rodding moving as the point changes but also suggests that it may be possible to actually control the point using the kit and I can’t resist a challenge! So we are using the DCC Concepts cranks with gem levers, 0.7mm wire and home 3D printed stools (by @woko) and it seems to work as we have three points working smoothly so far.

 

My problem is that I’ve managed to solder some of the cranks solid and I’m trying to rescue them. I’ve tried using desoldering braid with plenty of flux but I can’t get them to move. I’ve tried adding oil as I do the braid ‘sucking’ but to no avail. I attach a picture of the crank which is soldered solid on the right hand side with my finger for scale. I would ideally like to get rid of all the solder and get it rotating freely again. If that’s not possible then I may drill it out and use a brass dressmakers pin as a pivot. Any suggestions on how to approach it would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

[micknich2003]

Chemically blacken the bits you don't want solder to stick to, Birchwood Casey gun blue is perfect , you now have a perfect solder resist and as a bonus a natural coulurant. A fag paper between all woking surfaces also helps.

[Davey]

Might I suggest, (it is only a suggestion), that you need more heat at the joint you're trying to unsolder. In this instance a soldering iron might not produce sufficient heat, so try using something like a Proxxon mini flame heating torch to heat the joint whilst a second person uses pliers to try and rotate and pull the the crank away from the mating part. If this is successful before attempting re-assembly follow the advice given by Micknich2003 in the previous post.

 

Davey

[Chuffer Davies]

2 hours ago, micknich2003 said:

Chemically blacken the bits you don't want solder to stick to, Birchwood Casey gun blue is perfect , you now have a perfect solder resist and as a bonus a natural coulurant. A fag paper between all woking surfaces also helps.

Rather than using cigarette paper, once you have completely removed all the original solder then isolate the joint with aluminium foil.  I always use this when soldering up the hinge on articulated coupling rods and it works every time for me.  
Frank

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks for your suggestions. I can see that the chemical blackening would help before I attempt any soldering. Although I find that if I remember to oil the joint well beforehand this works well as well. The issues I had are mainly when I forgot to oil the joint before soldering. 
 

If I understand correctly, the advice is to completely disassemble the joint by applying lots of heat, then chemically blacken the pivot points, then reassemble. However the joint is made with a rivet, so I would need to force that apart and then replace it - perhaps with a brass pin soldered underneath?

 

Andy

[Jesse Sim]

On 03/08/2021 at 03:25, LNER4479 said:

 

Tell me about it ...

 

 

I would recommend a DJH motor, plenty of room in the cab for it.

 

 

I’ll see myself out 

[DougN]

Interesting in the photo above the splashers above the wheels are not fitted as well as a Finney kit. 

 

Seriously though the photo shows just how much stuff is installed between the frames of a steam loco and that is only part way through. Then the real thing needs working room so that the equipment can be maintained over time. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I have a soldering problem and where better to ask than on this thread!

 

By way of context, we are trying to construct working point rodding for our club 0 gauge layout using the DCC concepts products. These are designed for 00, but are rather overscale and, to my eyes, look quite good for 0 gauge. The sales pitch suggests using them with a point motor to give an impression of point rodding moving as the point changes but also suggests that it may be possible to actually control the point using the kit and I can’t resist a challenge! So we are using the DCC Concepts cranks with gem levers, 0.7mm wire and home 3D printed stools (by @woko) and it seems to work as we have three points working smoothly so far.

 

My problem is that I’ve managed to solder some of the cranks solid and I’m trying to rescue them. I’ve tried using desoldering braid with plenty of flux but I can’t get them to move. I’ve tried adding oil as I do the braid ‘sucking’ but to no avail. I attach a picture of the crank which is soldered solid on the right hand side with my finger for scale. I would ideally like to get rid of all the solder and get it rotating freely again. If that’s not possible then I may drill it out and use a brass dressmakers pin as a pivot. Any suggestions on how to approach it would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

Good morning Andy,

 

I assume you used 145 solder (or even a higher melting point)? If so, flood the joints with flux and then apply low-melt solder, with the iron cranked right up. Everything will (or should) then come apart with ease. Afterwards, thoroughly clean-up, removing all traces of solder, then start again.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks for your suggestions. I can see that the chemical blackening would help before I attempt any soldering. Although I find that if I remember to oil the joint well beforehand this works well as well. The issues I had are mainly when I forgot to oil the joint before soldering. 
 

If I understand correctly, the advice is to completely disassemble the joint by applying lots of heat, then chemically blacken the pivot points, then reassemble. However the joint is made with a rivet, so I would need to force that apart and then replace it - perhaps with a brass pin soldered underneath?

 

Andy

Me again,

 

I didn't know that it was a riveted joint (why a rivet and solder?). 

 

If you can, snip off the head of the rivet and file it flush. Then apply low-melt, dismantle the parts, then start again.....................

 

Why do you need working point rodding, anyway? It can look just as good whether it works or not.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Me again,

 

I didn't know that it was a riveted joint (why a rivet and solder?). 

 

If you can, snip off the head of the rivet and file it flush. Then apply low-melt, dismantle the parts, then start again.....................

 

Why do you need working point rodding, anyway? It can look just as good whether it works or not.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks Tony,

 

I probably didn’t explain myself properly. The crank comes preassembled from DCC concepts. I was soldering on the rodding to the crank ends. 

 

I used 145 I think although some were done with electrical solder because I forgot my 145 when I went to the club. By low melt, I assume you mean 70C or similar? Will this destroy the bond on the 145?

 

As for why use working point rodding. I think the movement of the rodding will look good at an exhibition and the tactile feel for operating the points will give the operators another dimension. Or the alternative answer may be similar to the Everest answer - ‘because it’s there’.

 

Andy