Wright writes.....

[St Enodoc]

56 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Do telegraph wires add something to a layout, if done quite well?

Possibly - but (with all due respect) the examples that followed this question are not done well. The wires have no dip, which for me is the defining characteristic. Overscale wires all dipping correctly (and equally) would look better than true-scale wires stretched taut.

 

Just my personal opinion of course.

[grahame]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

The wires have no dip, which for me is the defining characteristic. Overscale wires all dipping correctly (and equally) would look better than true-scale wires stretched taut.

 

 

Yep, they need to droop, like swags of baggy festoons.

;-)

 

 

 

[Chas Levin]

4 hours ago, Iain.d said:

Thanks Chas.

 

Your glazing looks good. For mine, I have cut the windscreens and side windows from clear plastic glazing material and will secure them with 'glue 'n' glaze (I think that's what its called) but I don't think it will be as neat as yours. Thinking I'll mess up the glass work is causing me not to want to progress it - the build I showed above has been pretty much like that for weeks.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

Thanks Iain; the glazing was cut from the thick stuff Wizard sells, with each one shaped to fit one of the four windows (paint residue means they each had their tiny differences). The glazing is very good stuff, quite thick but easily worked, it sits flat, doesn't mark easily and has a realistic looking type of shine. The combination of the thickness (0.6mm) and the flexibility of the material means you can sit it inside a plastic frame like this and manoueuvre it to be flush.

It was then secured with G-S Hypo Cement. First time I'd tried it and it does what it says on the tube, dries clear, easy to work with etc. (Usual disclaimers, no connection to G-S or Wizard!).

The cab interior is actually painted grey - I realise from the photo it might look like I'd simply forgotten to paint inside the window frames!

[Dunsignalling]

The problem with telegraph wires is finding a material that sags in model form the way full sized ones do.

 

Thread isn't heavy enough or stiff enough to smoothly take up such a shape, whilst the oft-use EZ-line only works if pulled taut so is good for fences but not this. For telegraph wires, tight simply ain't right!

 

Plastic rod ought to work, but in the thinnest gauges, required for this purpose, behaves more like thread.

 

That leaves springy nickel silver wire as pretty much the only viable option, and it can be chemically blackened to disguise its origins. However, getting a balance between being thin enough to look right and thick/heavy enough to behave the way we require may be a problem. 

 

I've always left well alone and omitted the wires, but has anyone out there managed this?

 

John

Edited August 30, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[jrg1]

I think that modelling telegraph wires is a waste of time, and detracts from the overall effect.  The one layout I did see with full wiring, the owner complained that the wires were a dust magnet.

[Jesse Sim]

But why spend that time adding wire to fences and telegraph poles to not add lamps to locos? ….

[great central]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

The problem with telegraph wires is finding a material that sags in model form the way full sized ones do.

 

Thread isn't heavy enough or stiff enough to smoothly take up such a shape, whilst the oft-use EZ-line only works if pulled taut so is good for fences but not this. For telegraph wires, tight simply ain't right!

 

 

 

John

 

As anyone who's had to pull up the real things will tell you. Years ago as a telephone engineer, not BT by the way, we weren't provided with much equipment so trying to get a cable as taut as possible while standing on a ladder isn't easy. It's a trade off between the weight of the cable and it's tendency to pull you off the ladder, so you learn how far to go!

[uax6]

The bare  cad-copper of the GPO and railway would have been put up using 'ratchet and tongs' these hooked over the insulator spindle and the other end gripped the wire, by turning the ratchet you could bind in the wire to the correct sag (all issued in tabular form). Somewhere I've got a set of ratchet and tongs, and in the loft I have a coil of cad-copper. I've got some of the copper sleeves for doing the joints as well...

 

Andy G

[PMP]

On 28/08/2021 at 23:18, Headstock said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Andrew , lovely tonal variety, may I ask if you use a specific color/s for the main bodies ?

[Roger Sunderland]

On 29/08/2021 at 13:06, Iain.d said:

Hi Roger,

 

They are the pots and yes some can be a little gritty - the crimson more so than the cream. I've not known them to be sludgy. I've had a stock of pots for years (late 1990s) and still have 6 crimsons and 3 creams (all unopened). Because of the grittiness, which I've mentioned on here before, I will more often use Vallejo Carmine Red 70.908 - hence the mismatch in the number of Humbrol pots per colour. But this carriage will sit in rake of Humbrol painted ones, and I wanted them to all be the same colour - very shallow of me and often un-prototypical, I know!

 

For the Humbrol paints, they get stirred within an inch of their lives (often doing it two or three times in the evenings leading up to a spraying session) and then thinned with Vallejo airbrush thinner when I'm all set up to go. I couldn't really tell you the consistency - I do it by eye, knowing how much paint to pour in the airbrush cup and where it comes up to on the side and then adding the thinner and knowing where that level needs to come to, and then mixing it.

 

Kind regards,

 

Iain

Thanks so much for that info Iain. I tend to use Vallejo theses days for most painting jobs - I didn’t know that Vallejo thinners worked ok with Humbrol acrylics.

There is a thread on here that gives reasonable colour matches to railway colours for Halfords rattle cans (they are very good paints) but I wonder if anyone could do a similar job matching to railway colours with Vallejo acrylics, which are also very good, in my opinion.

[Headstock]

4 hours ago, PMP said:

Andrew , lovely tonal variety, may I ask if you use a specific color/s for the main bodies ?

 

Many thanks,

 

there was no need to re invent the  wheel on this one. Railmatch 322 Early freight grey and 309 Later freight grey were quite expectable representations of the real thing. As mentioned above, I did lightly patch overspray the Early freight grey with the Later freight grey on some of the flat panel areas, to aid in the faded weathering effect I wanted.

[Tony Wright]

Friend Jeff Symons came around today. 

 

I attempted to operate LB for him. If one leaves a throttle wide open, then throws a switch, don't be surprised if the loco starts off like a racing car, scattering all in its path! Not the most auspicious of starts. My apologies, Jeff.

 

Never mind, with Jeff doing the driving, we settled down to over three hours carefree running of all the trains.

 

He brought some goodies with him............ Locomotives he's built.

 

 

A Mitchell Castle (the nameplates were loose, so they were removed for safe-keeping).

 

 

A scratch-built T9.

 

 

And a scratch-built 'Jubilee'. This was the one which whirled the 'Queen of Scots' round with ease.

 

Thanks for bringing these round, Jeff. And thanks for your contributions to CRUK; most-generous. 

 

I'll let you tell the 'histories' of your models if I may. 

 

 

 

 

[Denbridge]

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Friend Jeff Symons came around today. 

 

I attempted to operate LB for him. If one leaves a throttle wide open, then throws a switch, don't be surprised if the loco starts off like a racing car, scattering all in its path! Not the most auspicious of starts. My apologies, Jeff.

 

Never mind, with Jeff doing the driving, we settled down to over three hours carefree running of all the trains.

 

He brought some goodies with him............ Locomotives he's built.

 

 

A Mitchell Castle (the nameplates were loose, so they were removed for safe-keeping).

 

 

A scratch-built T9.

 

 

And a scratch-built 'Jubilee'. This was the one which whirled the 'Queen of Scots' round with ease.

 

Thanks for bringing these round, Jeff. And thanks for your contributions to CRUK; most-generous. 

 

I'll let you tell the 'histories' of your models if I may. 

 

 

 

 

I had a wonderful day yesterday. I' I've admired Little Bytham through Tony's excellent photos and the various videos for a long time. It is even better in reality a true work of art by Tony and the team who created it, both the layout and its trains performed impeccably throughout. Thank you so much Tony & Mo for making me so welcome.

As requested some further details of the models I took along.

Both the T9 and A12 'Jubilee were scratchbuilt in my late teens. I acquired a bag of old mainframes from a secondhand stall at a local exhibition for the princely sum of 4 or 5 pounds, and hacked them about to fit locos I fancied building. The chassis under the T9 was originally a 4.6.0 whilst the jubilee was a originally an Atlantic. I fitted both with Airfix slimline motors & homemade gear frames and as such they have run intensively for many years the motors recently giving up the ghost. 

The upper works are mainly Nickel Silver and brass, with fittings sourced mainly from the much missed Eames of Reading .

I was very fortunate to be taught how to solder and use a soldering iron at an early years by a lovely chap who was a Hatton Garden jeweller. He taught me so much and any skills I developed, I owe entirely to his skills and patience.

I recently decided to bring these more up to current standards. I am in two minds whether to renew the chassis as I had intended. They both ran so well yesterday ( now with portescap 1219's) I'm tempted to retain these battleship frames and add overlays. An order is on its way to Brassmasters for lots of Finney fittings and in the meantime I'll be adding lots of wiggly wires and other detail.

Oh, the T9 is currently hauling a BEC tender from another of my T9's. When I built the water cart tender for this one, I somehow managed to build it a scale foot or so too high. It's bothered me all this time so I've taken the excess height off the bottom of its tank.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Denbridge

[Denbridge]

The castle is a Mitchell kit built much more recently. It is pretty much built as per Malcolms instructions with a big portescap and incorporates working outside valves and the linkage from the inside cylinders. The paintwork and lining has been applied by a very good friend in exchange for my building some chassis for him.

Sadly, Windsor Castle rather let the Swindon side down yesterday. Despite being full of lead, she refused to haul Tony's heavy Pullmans. I think I've found the problem and hope to restore Swindons pride on a future visit.

[MJI]

7 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

The castle is a Mitchell kit built much more recently. It is pretty much built as per Malcolms instructions with a big portescap and incorporates working outside valves and the linkage from the inside cylinders. The paintwork and lining has been applied by a very good friend in exchange for my building some chassis for him.

Sadly, Windsor Castle rather let the Swindon side down yesterday. Despite being full of lead, she refused to haul Tony's heavy Pullmans. I think I've found the problem and hope to restore Swindons pride on a future visit.

 

Knowing the haulage ability of Swindon 4-6-0s I hope we do see it romp away one day.

[Headstock]

I've recently completed a refurbishment the 4.50 pm Marylebone Manchester, ''The South Yorkshireman'', circa 1955. The set was originally built over twenty odd years ago, It had some features that I was never completely happy with at the time and more importantly, it was falling apart. 

The original build was roughly contempory with "The Elizabethan'' set built by TW for Stoke Bank.  Both of the real trains were formed around a core of Thompson carriages. I followed Tony's example of using the old Bachmann carriages as donor vehicles. I had quite a number of them stashed away from my youth. My only real modelling 'innovation', that expanded on what was done with ''The Elizabethan'' set, was the cutting away of the moulded on battery boxes from the the angle iron. Replacement MJT battery boxes were substituted,  mounted 4mm inboard of the angle iron and on one side only. The rest of the rather dodgy underframe mouldings remained as was. They were close to the top of the list for replacement with more accurate parts in the refurb.

Fig 1 The underframe striped of moulded details. The cut-out was to accommodate the true bogie ride height.

 

 

The image below of TTO E 1990 E shows the other main areas I wished to address.

 

Fig 2 TTO E 1990 E

 

1 Torpedoed vents
I had replaced the moulded torpedoed vents that were wrongly placed down the centreline of the roof by Bachmann. My choice of replacements vents were way overscale, they had to go. 

2.The brass sides 
They were in a perilous state. The Evo stick adhesive  had failed by literally turning to dust. I took the opportunity to strip and repaint paint the carriages from the rather lacklustre RTR look , to a more of a sheen in keeping with the real carriages. This allowed me to dispense with the method of brass siding which I didn't care for. The sides could now be attached with solder to a false brass endplate that the roof and ends sit over it. This also allowed for the forming of a proper Thompson tumblehome.

3. Replacement bogies
The Bachmann bogies were retained in the original conversion, not such a good idea. They took a lot of work to get them to run well on the new wheel sets. I was also unaware at the time that they were terribly inaccurate models, being rather clunky and too short in the wheelbase. 

4.Body attachment
The body could now be screwed on to the floor, rather than utilising the Bachmann 'force it on force it off' method of attachment. 

5 Gangways
The gangways were removed, refolded and sprung and new end plate fitted

Fig 3 Destination board brackets

The original conversion they allowed for the removal of the boards for no logical reason, they were constantly snagging on things and were poorly positioned, they had to go. The destination boards themselves were in poor condition. New more accurate artwork was produced for them to be replaced throughout the train.

 

 

I also had to contend with Inaccuracies in the brass sides of the corridor thirds. They had the wrong arrangement of window ventilators on the corridor sides. This is something that Comet have corrected on their art work but my sides predated this. Fortunately, I had a spare set of sides in stock and to my surprise, they had the correct arrangement of ventilators. This allowed for the first of the two faulty thirds to get new sides.

 

Fig 4 The ventilator problem

The side removed from the first Thompson TK is at the top of the image, it has the incorrect arrangement of the ventilators on the corridor side. The replacement brass side is in the middle, it has the correct arrangement of ventilators for the corridor windows. The side at the bottom of the image, is the compartment side that was removed from the first Thompson TK. It was modified by removing the the second, fourth and sixth window ventilators. It could then be used to replace the faulty corridor side on the second Thompson TK. Bobs your uncle, two corrected carriages.

 

Fig 5 The corrected corridor side now mounted on the refurbed carriage. The original bogies are still present at this stage.

 

 

Some images of the completed refurbished carriages are featured below.

 

 

If I was starting from scratch, no doubt I would employ different methods, The Bachmann Thompson refubs are still very much in what TW lingo, would call  'layout coaches''. However, I think that it has been a worthwhile project, as the outcome has produced a better looking train and a more robust train, that sits more comfortably with my other stock. If no action had been taken, there is no doubt that the set would have cease to exist within a couple of years.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Headstock

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

 

Knowing the haulage ability of Swindon 4-6-0s I hope we do see it romp away one day.

When Jeff returns, you will. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Denbridge said:

I had a wonderful day yesterday. I' I've admired Little Bytham through Tony's excellent photos and the various videos for a long time. It is even better in reality a true work of art by Tony and the team who created it, both the layout and its trains performed impeccably throughout. Thank you so much Tony & Mo for making me so welcome.

As requested some further details of the models I took along.

Both the T9 and A12 'Jubilee were scratchbuilt in my late teens. I acquired a bag of old mainframes from a secondhand stall at a local exhibition for the princely sum of 4 or 5 pounds, and hacked them about to fit locos I fancied building. The chassis under the T9 was originally a 4.6.0 whilst the jubilee was a originally an Atlantic. I fitted both with Airfix slimline motors & homemade gear frames and as such they have run intensively for many years the motors recently giving up the ghost. 

The upper works are mainly Nickel Silver and brass, with fittings sourced mainly from the much missed Eames of Reading .

I was very fortunate to be taught how to solder and use a soldering iron at an early years by a lovely chap who was a Hatton Garden jeweller. He taught me so much and any skills I developed, I owe entirely to his skills and patience.

I recently decided to bring these more up to current standards. I am in two minds whether to renew the chassis as I had intended. They both ran so well yesterday ( now with portescap 1219's) I'm tempted to retain these battleship frames and add overlays. An order is on its way to Brassmasters for lots of Finney fittings and in the meantime I'll be adding lots of wiggly wires and other detail.

Oh, the T9 is currently hauling a BEC tender from another of my T9's. When I built the water cart tender for this one, I somehow managed to build it a scale foot or so too high. It's bothered me all this time so I've taken the excess height off the bottom of its tank.

Thanks Jeff,

 

Good to see you yesterday. I had a great time. Little Bytham, as you said, worked perfectly (as it always does). It's a pity I don't work quite so well!

 

I've removed the Portescap from your donated O1 (it's here for you when you visit again), and I've fitted a different drive (Mashima,etc). When I've tidied up what I've done (re-weathering the motion and so on), I'll put it up for sale for CRUK. Did you know it has a smoke unit in it?

 

Best regards,

 

Tony. 

[Atso]

Hello Tony and friends!

 

A bit of excitement at my end as I've just received the etches from some artwork I designed!

 

 

Now comes the fun of finding out how many mistakes I've made in the designs!

[Denbridge]

2 hours ago, MJI said:

 

Knowing the haulage ability of Swindon 4-6-0s I hope we do see it romp away one day.

With only a short test track, I was unable to fettle her properly. Having been given the opportunity to finally test her on LB we identified the problem and this morning I've made a new tender drawbar and slightly modified the front bogie mount. I'm confident she will redeem herself in the future, though on the plus side I was very happy with how well she ran. The big surprise was the little A12. It romped away with most of that lovely pullman train with the T9 also putting in a fair performance.

[Denbridge]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Jeff,

 

Good to see you yesterday. I had a great time. Little Bytham, as you said, worked perfectly (as it always does). It's a pity I don't work quite so well!

 

I've removed the Portescap from your donated O1 (it's here for you when you visit again), and I've fitted a different drive (Mashima,etc). When I've tidied up what I've done (re-weathering the motion and so on), I'll put it up for sale for CRUK. Did you know it has a smoke unit in it?

 

Best regards,

 

Tony. 

Aside from testing it to make sure the RG4 was OK, I hadn't looked any deeper. I'm pleased you can make good use of it, it was too nice to simply serve as a doner engine. I bought if off Ebay purely for the portescap. The little H class I tried on LB is back on the bench. Hopefully I'll finish it before I next visit assuming my health issues permit.

[davidw]

2 hours ago, Headstock said:

I've recently completed a refurbishment the 4.50 pm Marylebone Manchester, ''The South Yorkshireman'', circa 1955. The set was originally built over twenty odd years ago, It had some features that I was never completely happy with at the time and more importantly, it was falling apart. 

The original build was roughly contempory with "The Elizabethan'' set built by TW for Stoke Bank.  Both of the real trains were formed around a core of Thompson carriages. I followed Tony's example of using the old Bachmann carriages as donor vehicles. I had quite a number of them stashed away from my youth. My only real modelling 'innovation', that expanded on what was done with ''The Elizabethan'' set, was the cutting away of the moulded on battery boxes from the the angle iron. Replacement MJT battery boxes were substituted,  mounted 4mm inboard of the angle iron and on one side only. The rest of the rather dodgy underframe mouldings remained as was. They were close to the top of the list for replacement with more accurate parts in the refurb.

Fig 1 The underframe striped of moulded details. The cut-out was to accommodate the true bogie ride height.

 

 

The image below of TTO E 1990 E shows the other main areas I wished to address.

 

Fig 2 TTO E 1990 E

 

1 Torpedoed vents
I had replaced the moulded torpedoed vents that were wrongly placed down the centreline of the roof by Bachmann. My choice of replacements vents were way overscale, they had to go. 

2.The brass sides 
They were in a perilous state. The Evo stick adhesive  had failed by literally turning to dust. I took the opportunity to strip and repaint paint the carriages from the rather lacklustre RTR look , to a more of a sheen in keeping with the real carriages. This allowed me to dispense with the method of brass siding which I didn't care for. The sides could now be attached with solder to a false brass endplate that the roof and ends sit over it. This also allowed for the forming of a proper Thompson tumblehome.

3. Replacement bogies
The Bachmann bogies were retained in the original conversion, not such a good idea. They took a lot of work to get them to run well on the new wheel sets. I was also unaware at the time that they were terribly inaccurate models, being rather clunky and too short in the wheelbase. 

4.Body attachment
The body could now be screwed on to the floor, rather than utilising the Bachmann 'force it on force it off' method of attachment. 

5 Gangways
The gangways were removed, refolded and sprung and new end plate fitted

Fig 3 Destination board brackets

The original conversion they allowed for the removal of the boards for no logical reason, they were constantly snagging on things and were poorly positioned, they had to go. The destination boards themselves were in poor condition. New more accurate artwork was produced for them to be replaced throughout the train.

 

 

I also had to contend with Inaccuracies in the brass sides of the corridor thirds. They had the wrong arrangement of window ventilators on the corridor sides. This is something that Comet have corrected on their art work but my sides predated this. Fortunately, I had a spare set of sides in stock and to my surprise, they had the correct arrangement of ventilators. This allowed for the first of the two faulty thirds to get new sides.

 

Fig 4 The ventilator problem

The side removed from the first Thompson TK is at the top of the image, it has the incorrect arrangement of the ventilators on the corridor side. The replacement brass side is in the middle, it has the correct arrangement of ventilators for the corridor windows. The side at the bottom of the image, is the compartment side that was removed from the first Thompson TK. It was modified by removing the the second, fourth and sixth window ventilators. It could then be used to replace the faulty corridor side on the second Thompson TK. Bobs your uncle, two corrected carriages.

 

Fig 5 The corrected corridor side now mounted on the refurbed carriage. The original bogies are still present at this stage.

 

 

Some images of the completed refurbished carriages are featured below.

 

 

If I was starting from scratch, no doubt I would employ different methods, The Bachmann Thompson refubs are still very much in what TW lingo, would call  'layout coaches''. However, I think that it has been a worthwhile project, as the outcome has produced a better looking train and a more robust train, that sits more comfortably with my other stock. If no action had been taken, there is no doubt that the set would have cease to exist within a couple of years.

Good use of an old coach. How did you. Remove the moulded battery boxes?

[Doncaster Green]

2 hours ago, Atso said:

Hello Tony and friends!

 

A bit of excitement at my end as I've just received the etches from some artwork I designed!

 

 

Now comes the fun of finding out how many mistakes I've made in the designs!

Hi Steve

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the lower left a GNR Dia99 Twin First?

Regards

John

[westernviscount]

On 29/08/2021 at 09:42, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Tony,

 

the kits come with Gibson wheels. All Parkside kits come with them now, I think there was a terminal supply problem with the old Markits wheels. I've personally never had a problem with using Gibson or Markits wheels in the past. That has not been the case with these, or even Markits wheels in more recent times. To be fair to Gibson, all of the replacement wheels were fine and I did need to replace some with split spoke wheels, as was prototypical for some of the hoppers. The LNER loved to save up their split spoked wheels from scraped wagons and fit them to new builds. However, the removed Gibson wheels are very hard to correct and are effectively written off as spares. Very poor.

I am glad it isn't just me who has been disappointed by the wheels in the new parkside range. I raised the matter on my kitbuilding thread and was slightly worried I had commited blasphemy!! 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, Denbridge said:

Aside from testing it to make sure the RG4 was OK, I hadn't looked any deeper. I'm pleased you can make good use of it, it was too nice to simply serve as a doner engine. I bought if off Ebay purely for the portescap. The little H class I tried on LB is back on the bench. Hopefully I'll finish it before I next visit assuming my health issues permit.

Thanks again for the O1, Jeff,

 

It's now got its new motor/gearbox in and runs very well. It'll be up for sale soon. It might generate some interest, especially as it's a Tyne Dock example, complete with the pumps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.