RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted September 25, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 25, 2021 36 minutes ago, Barry Ten said: I've been informed (very nicely) that Calstock needs the later type of ash pan, so back on the bench she comes. What a minefield these things are. I think I'm going for the full house of mistakes so far: wrong tender, scrolls too low, now the ash pan. And all because I ended up with two Blandfords and wanted to rename one of them to a loco that ran on the S&D! Your cut-down 4500 gallon tender as pictured is correct for 34103 from October 1958 onwards. Incidentally, you'll need another pair of late ash-pans for Blandford Forum.... John 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted September 25, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 25, 2021 (edited) 19 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: Your cut-down 4500 gallon tender as pictured is correct for 34103 from October 1958 onwards. Incidentally, you'll need another pair of late ash-pans for Blandford Forum.... John Yes, the tender's right now but only after I swapped it for the one running behind Westward Ho, which was then renumbered to 4028 Eddystone. And if that's not right I'm taking up toy soldiers. Edited September 26, 2021 by Barry Ten corrected Yes Tor to Westward Ho 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted September 26, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 26, 2021 4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: being greeted (more than once) by my pals with the news that it had gone up one or two trains before I arrived on parade. Well, they would say that, wouldn't they... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain_Mumbles Posted September 26, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 26, 2021 Gday All! At risk of this being covered before... (It was suggested by somebody that my query would best be answered here!) I love the Hornby A2/2 and A2/3 models however, I was at first disappointed that the A2/2 is not available in LNER livery. I do prefer the configuration of the locomotives in that livery and also without the large smoke deflectors. If I want to make a representation of an apple green LNER A2/2 is the Hornby model a good place to start? I have been told I need a cab that is more like an A4, but beyond that there may to too many differences? For a little bit of interest (I hope) I have attached an in progress picture of my A1/1, in a configuration that was short lived, made only from Hornby spares and a little bit of scratch building. Cheers, Ben 9 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post Iain.d Posted September 26, 2021 RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2021 On my last trip back to the UK in February 2020 I purchased an Airfix RAF Recovery Set model kit with the intention of civilianising the vehicles to resemble ones that might have been seen in 1950s Britain. I converted the kit's Bedford OX tractor unit to something more like a Bedford OY by extending the chassis and building a flat tray. It is finished as a vehicle belonging to the Radstock Co-operative Society; I have no idea if they had anything like this but its certainly something that could have been. And I completed the crane as belonging to a local engineering firm, Evans. They had a depot near the top of Frome Hill; I used to pass it on my paper round as a youngster in the mid 1980s. The site is now a small housing estate. The glazing is probably the weakest point, I had many goes at cutting clear plastic sheet (from Roxey Mouldings material). I didn’t manage the crane’s quarter lights. The transfers I made up using our home laser printer. The ones for the Bedford truck were meant to be yellow/gold on the brown but I couldn’t get a good enough density so changed them to a darker brown. Planning forward, and in the absence of having any fresh HMRS BR carriage numbers, I had hoped to be able to use the same process for numbering some carriages, but that might not now work. I’ll need to do some further playing around. These have been on the go for more than a year, I’m glad to have them done and look forward to building some more railway stock. Kind regards, Iain 23 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 (edited) For pale lettering on a background of stronger colour, could you match colours sufficiently well to allow a reversal of approach, i.e. paint the relevant area in the desired letter colour, then apply a home made transfer that is effectively a negative (like a permanently applied stencil if that makes more sense) to provide the surrounding colour so that just the required lettering shows through? Later added: Or for belt and braces include the intended colour of the letters on the transfer too, with the "undercoat" in the same (or same-ish) colour. Edited September 26, 2021 by gr.king Additional info 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted September 26, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 26, 2021 (edited) A blast from the past, mid 1980’s Beautifully etched, all you had to do was cut the ‘ing’ things out. And then repaint them as the paint came off whilst cutting and filing them to shape… Edited September 26, 2021 by PMP 7 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 5 hours ago, Iain.d said: On my last trip back to the UK in February 2020 I purchased an Airfix RAF Recovery Set model kit with the intention of civilianising the vehicles to resemble ones that might have been seen in 1950s Britain. I converted the kit's Bedford OX tractor unit to something more like a Bedford OY by extending the chassis and building a flat tray. It is finished as a vehicle belonging to the Radstock Co-operative Society; I have no idea if they had anything like this but its certainly something that could have been. And I completed the crane as belonging to a local engineering firm, Evans. They had a depot near the top of Frome Hill; I used to pass it on my paper round as a youngster in the mid 1980s. The site is now a small housing estate. The glazing is probably the weakest point, I had many goes at cutting clear plastic sheet (from Roxey Mouldings material). I didn’t manage the crane’s quarter lights. The transfers I made up using our home laser printer. The ones for the Bedford truck were meant to be yellow/gold on the brown but I couldn’t get a good enough density so changed them to a darker brown. Planning forward, and in the absence of having any fresh HMRS BR carriage numbers, I had hoped to be able to use the same process for numbering some carriages, but that might not now work. I’ll need to do some further playing around. These have been on the go for more than a year, I’m glad to have them done and look forward to building some more railway stock. Kind regards, Iain For the quarter lights try Deluxe Glue N Glaze or Humbrol Clearfix. They're used for fixing glazing, but will cover small gaps. https://deluxematerials.co.uk/products/glue-n-glaze https://uk.humbrol.com/products/clearfix-28ml-bottle-ac5708 Jason 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted September 26, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 26, 2021 7 hours ago, Iain.d said: On my last trip back to the UK in February 2020 I purchased an Airfix RAF Recovery Set model kit with the intention of civilianising the vehicles to resemble ones that might have been seen in 1950s Britain. I converted the kit's Bedford OX tractor unit to something more like a Bedford OY by extending the chassis and building a flat tray. It is finished as a vehicle belonging to the Radstock Co-operative Society; I have no idea if they had anything like this but its certainly something that could have been. And I completed the crane as belonging to a local engineering firm, Evans. They had a depot near the top of Frome Hill; I used to pass it on my paper round as a youngster in the mid 1980s. The site is now a small housing estate. The glazing is probably the weakest point, I had many goes at cutting clear plastic sheet (from Roxey Mouldings material). I didn’t manage the crane’s quarter lights. The transfers I made up using our home laser printer. The ones for the Bedford truck were meant to be yellow/gold on the brown but I couldn’t get a good enough density so changed them to a darker brown. Planning forward, and in the absence of having any fresh HMRS BR carriage numbers, I had hoped to be able to use the same process for numbering some carriages, but that might not now work. I’ll need to do some further playing around. These have been on the go for more than a year, I’m glad to have them done and look forward to building some more railway stock. Kind regards, Iain Excellent work and informative, I hadn't realised the kits did not have glazing included. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 15 hours ago, Captain_Mumbles said: Gday All! At risk of this being covered before... (It was suggested by somebody that my query would best be answered here!) I love the Hornby A2/2 and A2/3 models however, I was at first disappointed that the A2/2 is not available in LNER livery. I do prefer the configuration of the locomotives in that livery and also without the large smoke deflectors. If I want to make a representation of an apple green LNER A2/2 is the Hornby model a good place to start? I have been told I need a cab that is more like an A4, but beyond that there may to too many differences? For a little bit of interest (I hope) I have attached an in progress picture of my A1/1, in a configuration that was short lived, made only from Hornby spares and a little bit of scratch building. Cheers, Ben Good evening Ben, My apologies for not responding sooner but I've just spent an enjoyable time at the Boston MRC's exhibition today. I hope the show was a success (though the organisers should ensure that whoever is serving at the canteen should be able to do simple arithmetic. That said, the home-made cakes were delicious!). Regarding the A2/2 manifestations, I'll take a comparative model picture tomorrow which (I hope) will make the differences clear. To make an LNER-liveried A2/2 from the Hornby RTR product you'll need a new smokebox/boiler/firebox, a new central footplate and a new cab. It'll require a lot of scratch-building. Why the first appearance of the A2/2s in rebuilt form was not considered was (at least in part) down to me. The original intention was to produce an A2/3, which Hornby has done. During my discussions with the model's design team, I was asked the question regarding the viability of an A2/2 as well. Since 60501/02/05/06 latterly received Peppercorn Dia. 118 boilers (at the end, 60505 received a Thompson Dia. 117 boiler), which in most dimensions were the same as the A2/3 Dia. 117 boiler (and all the A2/3s at one point received Dia. 118 boilers), then all that was needed was a different cab to make that quartet of A2/2s, plus the weeny smoke deflectors. Hornby already had the tenders (A3 new type and A4 streamlined non-corridor), so the tool-making was really minimised. It's pointless folk moaning (as some have) that Hornby didn't make an 'original' A2/2, because there's no way that an A2/3 could have been produced easily from it; not without enormous investment in new tooling. Had Hornby made the original A2/2s, it would have restricted the number of models to just six, with only two lasting to withdrawal in that form. What the firm did (which, in my opinion, was very sensible) was to be able to offer 15 potential manifestations of A2/3s (actually more if one considers the different domes and positions, and 500's and 511's different arrangement of cladding bands), plus at least four A2/2s. Simple economics, really. Regards, Tony. 7 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted September 26, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, PMP said: A blast from the past, mid 1980’s Beautifully etched, all you had to do was cut the ‘ing’ things out. And then repaint them as the paint came off whilst cutting and filing them to shape… A splendid memory Paul, I was responsible (inasmuch as I ordered the names as new plates, at quite a high cost) for DONCASTER, THE WHITE KNIGHT, DUKE OF ROTHESAY, CLUMBER and HUNTINGDONSHIRE. After I'd paid for the artwork and first etchings/engravings, they went into the standard lists. Despite my asking for black backgrounds, the nameplates were all produced in red. When they really should have been black. No matter, I lived with the red background when I received it over 40 years ago. My DONCASTER is still going strong after all this time after service on Fordley Park, Leighford and Stoke Summit. And now Little Bytham. She has a Wills body, a scratch-built chassis, Jamieson valve gear and a Jamieson tender. The front numberplates were also produced in the wrong font. DUKE OF ROTHESAY dates from even earlier; 45 years ago in fact..................... Still with wrong font numberplate and wrong colour background to her nameplate. Not only were the 'plates for her made by Kings Cross, EAMES also produced the Jamieson hand-cut kit from which I built her. It cost me £27.00 (what's that in today's money?) and, despite my asking for an eight-wheeled tender, I was given a six-wheeled one. She tows a part-scratch-built one. My original THE WHITE KNIGHT (Wills), CLUMBER (Cornard) and HUNTINGDONSHIRE (another Jamieson hand-cut kit) have long gone. Regards, Tony. Edited September 27, 2021 by Tony Wright typo error 20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 1985 £27.00 is approx £69.00 now 1 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Iain.d Posted September 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 27, 2021 14 hours ago, gr.king said: For pale lettering on a background of stronger colour, could you match colours sufficiently well to allow a reversal of approach, i.e. paint the relevant area in the desired letter colour, then apply a home made transfer that is effectively a negative (like a permanently applied stencil if that makes more sense) to provide the surrounding colour so that just the required lettering shows through? Later added: Or for belt and braces include the intended colour of the letters on the transfer too, with the "undercoat" in the same (or same-ish) colour. Thanks for your idea, it makes sense. It was something I considered but I couldn’t match the brown of the base paint colour to a brown the printer could reproduce. I have done that type of thing previously when I have got a paint’s RGB colours and set the printer to that, but even then, while the colour is close, it’s far enough different to be noticeable. Given we only have an average quality laser printer, I understand its limitations. Another option I thought of was to paint the whole of the door a different (lighter) colour and then apply the transfer; it would probably look okay as a two-tone coloured vehicle. Kind regards, Iain 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 15 hours ago, PMP said: A blast from the past, mid 1980’s Beautifully etched, all you had to do was cut the ‘ing’ things out. And then repaint them as the paint came off whilst cutting and filing them to shape… Despite the fact you had to cut them out - they are the best etched plates in my view and they are still available I understand. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 They are still available from here. http://www.gcrsociety.co.uk/kingscrossplates.html There was a seller on eBay who was doing job lots of 5 for something like £3, seemed to be old shop stock. He had a lot and you could choose what you wanted as long as they were on the list. This was about five years ago. I know I've definitely got The White Knight and Blink Bonny. But I was more interested in the LMS/GWR ones. Jason 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain_Mumbles Posted September 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 27, 2021 10 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good evening Ben, My apologies for not responding sooner but I've just spent an enjoyable time at the Boston MRC's exhibition today. I hope the show was a success (though the organisers should ensure that whoever is serving at the canteen should be able to do simple arithmetic. That said, the home-made cakes were delicious!). Regarding the A2/2 manifestations, I'll take a comparative model picture tomorrow which (I hope) will make the differences clear. To make an LNER-liveried A2/2 from the Hornby RTR product you'll need a new smokebox/boiler/firebox, a new central footplate and a new cab. It'll require a lot of scratch-building. Why the first appearance of the A2/2s in rebuilt form was not considered was (at least in part) down to me. The original intention was to produce an A2/3, which Hornby has done. During my discussions with the model's design team, I was asked the question regarding the viability of an A2/2 as well. Since 60501/02/05/06 latterly received Peppercorn Dia. 118 boilers (at the end, 60505 received a Thompson Dia. 117 boiler), which in most dimensions were the same as the A2/3 Dia. 117 boiler (and all the A2/3s at one point received Dia. 118 boilers), then all that was needed was a different cab to make that quartet of A2/2s, plus the weeny smoke deflectors. Hornby already had the tenders (A3 new type and A4 streamlined non-corridor), so the tool-making was really minimised. It's pointless folk moaning (as some have) that Hornby didn't make an 'original' A2/2, because there's no way that an A2/3 could have been produced easily from it; not without enormous investment in new tooling. Had Hornby made the original A2/2s, it would have restricted the number of models to just six, with only two lasting to withdrawal in that form. What the firm did (which, in my opinion, was very sensible) was to be able to offer 15 potential manifestations of A2/3s (actually more if one considers the different domes and positions, and 500's and 511's different arrangement of cladding bands), plus at least four A2/2s. Simple economics, really. Regards, Tony. Gday Tony. I probably should have stressed that my disappointment was purely due to my own negligence in not knowing enough about the type and in no way am I disappointed with how the models have turned out as I absolutely love them. I have 60505 and I cannot decide which one to choose from between 500 and 514 with my next paycheck. I want to learn what the differences are and if it is a project I could complete. I do enjoy scratch building. I find the variations between these locomotives and their story fascinating. Cheers! Ben 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted September 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 27, 2021 21 hours ago, gr.king said: For pale lettering on a background of stronger colour, could you match colours sufficiently well to allow a reversal of approach, i.e. paint the relevant area in the desired letter colour, then apply a home made transfer that is effectively a negative I've used this method for wagons where white lettering is required. A small area of white paint with the transfer of the overall body colour printed on clear film with the lettering uncoloured. Very useful when you only want one set of transfers or a particular local 'Return to ...' branding. I am about to try a rake of Midland Tar Distillers private owner tanks which is a bit more ambitious! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 10 hours ago, micklner said: 1985 £27.00 is approx £69.00 now Thanks Mick, But I ordered/built 60508 in 1976. Presumably it was more than the equivalent 1985 £69.00? Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Mick, But I ordered/built 60508 in 1976. Presumably it was more than the equivalent 1985 £69.00? Regards, Tony. I read the date on the original post by PMP. You must have won the Pools that week = £135.88 OUCH !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, micklner said: I read the date on the original post by PMP. You must have won the Pools that week = £135.88 OUCH !!! Thanks again, Mick, That does seem a bit pricey. However, at the time I was earning a reasonable salary as a head of department in a comprehensive school, Mo was teaching as well and we had no children, then. EAMES/Kings Cross used to offer the 'hand-cut' kit service. In the case of my A2/1, I went to Reading (we had some friends living in the Thames Valley at the time) and ordered it. I suppose, in a way, it was very expensive, because (in a similar manner to the prototype) much would have come from the Jamieson V2 kit; things like the whole cab, firebox, boiler, rear footplate and so on. Despite my ordering an eight-wheeled tender, the standard V2 six-wheeled Jamieson tender was supplied. When I questioned this, I was told it would cost more! So, really, I paid a hell of a lot for a set of frames, coupling rods, a smokebox, a front end, a double chimney and some large smoke deflectors. All the other bits - Cartazzi frames, bogie, pony, dome, smokebox door, superheater covers, buffers, vacuum standpipes, steps, cylinders, valve gear and so forth came from the Jamieson range. I had to source the sandbox fillers and the eight-wheeled tender from elsewhere, at more expense! All the above said, it did enable me to have an A2/1 in 1976, though I would have been a lot better off (financially) modifying a Jamieson V2 kit, especially as, at the same time, I was scratch-building the A1/1. I bought all the parts I needed for the latter (raw materials and Jamieson bits) from Kings Cross Models (we were on our way to a holiday in Paris, so they travelled there). When the proprietor asked me about them, he was slightly incredulous. 'Who wants to build models of Thompson's Pacifics?' I seem to recall was his question. I'd been already guided on this path by Mike Edge, who, at the time, had scratch-built an A2/2 and A2/3 for me (I saw what he'd done, 'mentally' dismantled them and said 'I can do this!'. And did). I wonder if my personal 'modelling journey' has parallels with others? Apart from the A1/1 and A2/1, we now have RTR Thompson Pacifics. I know your 'journey' has similarities to mine, but you've produced your Thompsons from very different sources. All those original ones of mine (apart from the A2/1) have long gone, having been replaced by far superior kits down the years. Still, it's been a most-enjoyable journey so far............ Regards, Tony. Edited September 27, 2021 by Tony Wright to add something 9 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 8 hours ago, Iain.d said: Thanks for your idea, it makes sense. It was something I considered but I couldn’t match the brown of the base paint colour to a brown the printer could reproduce. I have done that type of thing previously when I have got a paint’s RGB colours and set the printer to that, but even then, while the colour is close, it’s far enough different to be noticeable. Given we only have an average quality laser printer, I understand its limitations. Another option I thought of was to paint the whole of the door a different (lighter) colour and then apply the transfer; it would probably look okay as a two-tone coloured vehicle. Kind regards, Iain 2 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said: I've used this method for wagons where white lettering is required. A small area of white paint with the transfer of the overall body colour printed on clear film with the lettering uncoloured. Very useful when you only want one set of transfers or a particular local 'Return to ...' branding. I am about to try a rake of Midland Tar Distillers private owner tanks which is a bit more ambitious! Given the sometimes elusive exact colour match, some other options might include: 1. Carefully and smoothly brush paint over the background colour of the transfer up to the very edge of the letter area. where the presence of the contrasting letter colour sometimes disguises a slightly different background shade between the letters, or... 2. Make the transfer cover enough of the surrounding area to make it feasible to place "soft edged" (raised irregular edge) masking over the lettering and a suitable transition margin, and then spray on the background colour (lightly, from varying angles) to get the most thoroughly blended (and probably not noticeable) transition between two slightly different shades of the background colour. In each case of course a final clear coat should help to unify the perceived finish. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted September 27, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, micklner said: I read the date on the original post by PMP. You must have won the Pools that week = £135.88 OUCH !!! They were pretty expensive to have made. You were paying for the artwork to be done, all hand drawn ‘in house’ and cross checked against prototype references. Then usually a few months wait for a slot in the etching and painting process. As @Tony Wrightmentions above with prototypical plates they then went into the main ranges, some freelance were added for industrial and narrow gauge builders. They were the best of their time hence the popularity and modellers prepared to do the work required to cut them and fit them. Edited September 27, 2021 by PMP Addition 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) As promised, A2/2 comparisons................... The nearer one is a modified Hornby A2/2 (weathered by Geoff Haynes), representing the class as fitted with a Dia. 118 boiler. The further one is built from a Crownline kit (painted by Ian Rathbone), representing an example of the class with its original cut-down P2 boiler. As such, 60504 (and 60503) retained this type of boiler until it was scrapped. With minor detail differences, this could be repainted into LNER lined apple green (which 60502 could not be. Well, not accurately, anyway). Differences to note are the longer smokebox on 60504, the shorter boiler (with the cladding in four sections, not five as with 60502), the full 'V'-fronted cab, different positions of firebox washout plugs and the shorter central footplate section. The dome position is slightly further back as well. All these differences militate against painting a Hornby A2/2 in LNER green (though some might just not bother, and do so, anyway). The differences are also apparent in these two shots................... As I say, a fair bit of modification would be needed to the Hornby model. Edited September 27, 2021 by Tony Wright typo error 12 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted September 27, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) This was one of @Tony Wright’s estate disposals. I picked it up as a none runner, with the idea to split the chassis to go underneath a Bachmann 4575 body. Unfortunately the chassis didn’t fit, but a bit of TLC got it running again, and it’s moved on to a new owner who wanted a brass 45xx. And ref the above discussion, included with it was a set of appropriate KX plates! Edited September 27, 2021 by PMP 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted September 27, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 27, 2021 14 minutes ago, PMP said: They were the best of their time Weren't they the only ones of their time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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