Wright writes.....

[Dylan Sanderson]

8 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

That looks like the Plant - has it been withdrawn and the tender swapped onto another loco, or just the order they've been chucked onto the line awaiting attention?

It's definitely 36A, but I've no idea on a date unfortunately.

[gr.king]

Supposing that the buffing, coupling, braking and water/steam piping arrangements were the same in that period for the loco-tender connections on the A3s and Pepp A1s (which I cannot remember, but somebody will know), could it be a case of one loco and one "un-related" tender sent to works for attention, while a "good" loco and "good" tender were temporarily paired up and kept in service?

[robertcwp]

55 minutes ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

Morning all... I came across this photo today and was wondering if anyone can confirm 60117 ran with a GN tender at all, or is this just formation for shed movement?

I thought the brakes were different so Peppercorn pacifics (and possibly Thompson too) did not swap tenders with other types in normal service.

[grahame]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Whole range of items comes up if you type ‘model bus transfers’ into the eBay search.  

 

Snag is that it's all 1/76 and nothing for N/2mm. Even with a specific search for N scale, N gauge, 1/148 etc, on ebay, 1/76 still comes up.

 

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

I don't know exactly what sort of transfers you want but I know that Fox Transfers do quite a big range in 4mm scale and are also willing to do transfers to special order. So perhaps they could be talked to about reducing some of their 4mm transfers for you.

 

They seem to have a range of 4mm LT trolleybus route blinds but I couldn't find any bus routes from the 1970s and 80s.

 

48 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Are you a member of the model bus federation? I'm not, but have bought a couple of kits via a friend who is. I seem to recall him saying that as well as kits, they also produce transfers.

 

I'm not a member of the MBF but I have had copies of their magazine and looked at their product lists in the past. They have an impressive range of kits and parts for buses (unfortunately mostly 1/76) but I didn't notice any decals for N/2mm scale.

 

42 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Have a look on this site.

http://modelbuszone.co.uk

 

 

I have checked that site in the past. Again the vast majority is 1/76 and 1/43 (apart from some ODC 1/148 RTP buses and HK 1/150 RTP buses in the listings). Rechecking the transfers section there's a few companies I wasn't aware of (recent additions?) but they only do 1/76. The other few I was previously aware of and have been through their listings in the past.

 

The 1/150 scale HK bus models, like those from Cars Workshop and JetFlame, are very good but most are no longer produced. I had my sister, who regularly visited HK as BA cabin crew, traipse around all the model shops in HK buying up what they had of the ones I was interested in - mostly DMSs and Pointers and a few triple axle ones that I converted to two axle, like the Gemini.

 

Believe me I've spent ages in the past searching and looking for something suitable decal wise with no success. And rather than waste more time fruitlessly hunting, I made do with what I had, butchered and used it in a kind of Hobson's choice, and moved on to other projects. But thanks for all the suggestions. And if anyone knows of something specific, rather than generic, then please let me know. If I can get it, I'll happily update/correct the models.

 

 

[t-b-g]

32 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

Snag is that it's all 1/76 and nothing for N/2mm. Even with a specific search for N scale, N gauge, 1/148 etc, on ebay, 1/76 still comes up.

 

 

They seem to have a range of 4mm LT trolleybus route blinds but I couldn't find any bus routes from the 1970s and 80s.

 

 

I'm not a member of the MBF but I have had copies of their magazine and looked at their product lists in the past. They have an impressive range of kits and parts for buses (unfortunately mostly 1/76) but I didn't notice any decals for N/2mm scale.

 

 

I have checked that site in the past. Again the vast majority is 1/76 and 1/43 (apart from some ODC 1/148 RTP buses and HK 1/150 RTP buses in the listings). Rechecking the transfers section there's a few companies I wasn't aware of (recent additions?) but they only do 1/76. The other few I was previously aware of and have been through their listings in the past.

 

The 1/150 scale HK bus models, like those from Cars Workshop and JetFlame, are very good but most are no longer produced. I had my sister, who regularly visited HK as BA cabin crew, traipse around all the model shops in HK buying up what they had of the ones I was interested in - mostly DMSs and Pointers and a few triple axle ones that I converted to two axle, like the Gemini.

 

Believe me I've spent ages in the past searching and looking for something suitable decal wise with no success. And rather than waste more time fruitlessly hunting, I made do with what I had, butchered and used it in a kind of Hobson's choice, and moved on to other projects. But thanks for all the suggestions. And if anyone knows of something specific, rather than generic, then please let me know. If I can get it, I'll happily update/correct the models.

 

 

 

I think you have probably reached the stage where spending further time trying to get such tiny details correct is counter productive and your efforts are better put into other things.

 

Especially in 2mm scale, such things are nice to get right if possible but really are not worth spending too much valuable time on.

 

99% of people would not have known that they are not correct without being prompted by experts and of the 1% who might know, they probably couldn't read the transfers at the distance they will be seen at.

[john new]

2 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Have a look on this site.

http://modelbuszone.co.uk

 

Stewart

Good tip. Looks like MABEX have/had the one's I need listed. Can anyone confirm they are still trading?  The catalogue from the link is 2019 and they don't seem to have their own website.

[Bernard Lamb]

3 hours ago, grahame said:

I

If there is, they're keeping it secret. I've looked and hunted for them. In N/2mm scale just Mabex and Modelmaster/NGS AFAIA. Is anyone aware of any others?

Even for 4mm scale the selection is very limited even for London Transport.

I have very slowly built up a selection of RTs and RFs for local routes.

A few models were available at various times RTR with suitable details and a few sets of transfers have been available to provide alternatives.

I cut up various items to get a representative, but not perfect, set for route 307 and can find nothing that will provide the destinations for route 302. Pure nostalgia as I went to school on that route.

Bernard

[grahame]

10 minutes ago, john new said:

Good tip. Looks like MABEX have/had the one's I need listed. Can anyone confirm they are still trading?  The catalogue from the link is 2019 and they don't seem to have their own website.

 

I seem to recall when dealing with Mabex that they were rather like MRJ. It was difficult to ascertain if they were still trading; no website, self addressed and stamped envelopes required, no online payment like PayPal, etc., although, of course, things could have changed and moved on since then.

[davidw]

4 hours ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

Morning all... I came across this photo today and was wondering if anyone can confirm 60117 ran with a GN tender at all, or is this just formation for shed movement?

No it did not. I believe that the coupling mechanism was incompatible. I'm sure that there were other reasons too.

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, grahame said:

I

If there is, they're keeping it secret. I've looked and hunted for them. In N/2mm scale just Mabex and Modelmaster/NGS AFAIA. Is anyone aware of any others?

Good afternoon Grahame,

 

Please let me know what you want and I'll ask Ian Wilson if he'll produce them for you. They're not transfers, just numbers/letters printed on paper (white digits on a black background). All one does is cut them out, take out the white border with a non-bleed black felt tip and stick them in place. I'm going to ask him to produce the ones for the 4mm bus I showed earlier. He charges a modest amount.

 

These are destination boards he did for Bytham's DMU.

 

 

 

 

 

The principle is exactly the same, whatever the scale. He does a whole range. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

Morning all... I came across this photo today and was wondering if anyone can confirm 60117 ran with a GN tender at all, or is this just formation for shed movement?

It's definitely at the Plant and is just a 'convenience' pairing.

 

It might be that 60117 has been withdrawn (as has the A3 which once towed the tender) and they're awaiting disposal. The same fate might be awaiting the A4 behind. 60117 is noted as having been withdrawn in June 1965, so this might be earlier than that and she's just in for repair (did she ever get a split crossrail on the smokebox door?).  If the A4 behind is MALLARD (which it might be, given the device on the boiler's side and the right sort of tender - streamlined corridor, with extra strip at the bottom), then the date could well be April 1963.  

 

I have a shot of 60121 at Donny Works waiting attention, and it's 'coupled' to a GS 4,200 tender. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Chas Levin]

6 hours ago, john new said:

Good tip. Looks like MABEX have/had the one's I need listed. Can anyone confirm they are still trading?  The catalogue from the link is 2019 and they don't seem to have their own website.

I ordered from them a bit more recently than that and received an updated catalogue in the post fairly recently (sorry but I can't find it right now to check the date), everything done the old-fashioned way by Royal Mail and a cheque, so it might be worth dropping them a line.

[Chas Levin]

8 hours ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

Morning all... I came across this photo today and was wondering if anyone can confirm 60117 ran with a GN tender at all, or is this just formation for shed movement?

Very evocative photo!

Is it a peculiarity of the photographic process used that's made the buffer beam so vivid, or had it been repainted? If it had been repainted, why would they repaint only the beam when the rest of the loco obviously hadn't been? Would it have been a safety issue, to do with the visibility of oncoming locos?

[Willie Whizz]

On 01/11/2021 at 22:20, john new said:

 

... Potential origin - Was the Thomas versus Bertie the bus story one of Awdry’s originals or just from the much more recent TV series? Either way a sub-conscious prompt.

 

...
 

As no-one else seems to have picked-up on this:  Bertie the Bus featured first in "Tank Engine Thomas Again" (1949).  Apparently the famous 'race' wasn't based on a real-life incident, unlike many other aspects of the original stories.

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Willie Whizz said:

As no-one else seems to have picked-up on this:  Bertie the Bus featured first in "Tank Engine Thomas Again" (1949).  Apparently the famous 'race' wasn't based on a real-life incident, unlike many other aspects of the original stories.

I preferred Percy's race with Harold. I used to sing the song to my daughters.

[grahame]

15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Grahame,

 

Please let me know what you want and I'll ask Ian Wilson if he'll produce them for you. They're not transfers, just numbers/letters printed on paper (white digits on a black background). All one does is cut them out, take out the white border with a non-bleed black felt tip and stick them in place. I'm going to ask him to produce the ones for the 4mm bus I showed earlier. He charges a modest amount.

 

The principle is exactly the same, whatever the scale. He does a whole range. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Thanks for the kind offer. However, I'll need to research all the routes, numbers and destination place names for the period first. And I've got quite a few to do. Here's some and there are others in preparation - a lot of buses will be needed for the streets around London Bridge:

 

 

Probably best to hold off at the moment and make do with what I've done until I'm ready for the whole fleet - so don't let me hold up your project order.

Cheers.

[FarrMan]

Many thanks for all the suggestions re couplings. As I expected, a wide range of views expressed. i am inclined to experiment with a few dinghams and a few sprat and winkles and see how I get on with them.

 

Lloyd

[rowanj]

I took the picture to put on my layout thread, but the train in question prompted me to think about the" RTR v, kit-built" discussion which figures on here from time to time. The train represents the 24.5T wagons which ran from Burradon Colliery to the Stella Power Stations on both banks of the Tyne, and were usually J27 hauled. My short rake is a Dave Alexander kit with Parkside PC04 wagons. It occurred to me that, until this year, this was the only way to get this combination. Now, of course, there is the excellent Oxford Rail loco and TMC -commissioned wagons, with an ex-LNER Toad from Hornby.

Moreover, the loco kit is out of production, and the wagon kit is shown "out of stock" at most retailers. Doesn't this perfectly illustrate the growing disincentive to build rolling stock, unless, of course, that is a significant raison d'etre for being in the hobby? Though my example is limited to the NE, there must be other examples nationally.

Edited November 4, 2021 by rowanj

[JeremyC]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

.......................................................

Moreover, the loco kit is out of production, and the wagon kit is shown "out of stock" at most retailers. Doesn't this perfectly illustrate the growing disincentive to build rolling stock, unless, of course, that is a significant raison d'etre for being in the hobby? Though my example is limited to the NE, there must be other examples nationally.

 

I don't think availability is in itself a disincentive to kit build.

If you were to go back to the retailer after a year or so you'd probably find the RTR loco and wagons were out of stock with most retailers. These days both RTR and kits are made on a batch basis so it is a case of getting what you want while it is available (though it appears Peco generally have most of their range available all the time, current Covid shortages excepted). It could even be that, providing the kit manufacturer is still in business, a rerun of the kit is more likely as I would imagine their minimum economical batch size is smaller.

I model Scottish Railways (BR era Edinburgh area). Steam era Scottish Railways are another area with little or no RTR support among the manufacturers for the pre-grouping classes.  Yes there have been some advances,  the Hornby J36 and the Rails Caley 812, but to have a prototypically representative variety of loco types it is still necessary to kit build.

Edited November 4, 2021 by JeremyC

[grahame]

18 minutes ago, JeremyC said:

I don't think availability is in itself a disincentive to kit build.

If you were to go back to the retailer after a year or so you'd probably find the RTR loco and wagons were out of stock with most retailers. These days both RTR and kits are made on a batch basis so it is a case of getting what you want while it is available (though it appears Peco generally have most of their range available all the time, current Covid shortages excepted). It could even be that, providing the kit manufacturer is still in business, a rerun of the kit is more likely as I would imagine their minimum economical batch size is smaller.

 

And, of course, there is the positive in there being tooling in existence for both the RTR loco and kit wagon meaning a manufacturer doesn't need to start from scratch to produce further batches. Plus, no doubt, the cost of that tooling has been written off from sales of the initial batch(es).

 

 

[rowanj]

2 hours ago, JeremyC said:

I don't think availability is in itself a disincentive to kit build.

 

I model Scottish Railways (BR era Edinburgh area). Steam era Scottish Railways are another area with little or no RTR support among the manufacturers for the pre-grouping classes.  Yes there have been some advances,  the Hornby J36 and the Rails Caley 812, but to have a prototypically representative variety of loco types it is still necessary to kit build.

I don't disagree with you. What I was musing, in my clumsy way, was whether many would build a specific loco or other rolling stock kit if RTR was as readily available.  Given the increasing width of the RTR range, the option not to kit build is more and more prevalent.  And I suspect many people take up that option. My thoughts were only prompted by realising I wouldn't have had to build a kits of these relatively obscure prototypes if I hadn't wanted to.

 

Of course, there will always be folk, myself included, who will continue to build even if there is an equivalent RTR model simply for the pleasure of doing so, And as a modeller of BR(NE) I too need to build kits to fill gaps in the roster - RTR hasn't  filled them all yet.

 

Incidentally, Gravity Dreams is among my favourite SF/Fantasy novels with Modesitt up there with giants like Asimov, Simak and Heinlein.

[Tony Wright]

47 minutes ago, rowanj said:

I don't disagree with you. What I was musing, in my clumsy way, was whether many would build a specific loco or other rolling stock kit if RTR was as readily available.  Given the increasing width of the RTR range, the option not to kit build is more and more prevalent.  And I suspect many people take up that option. My thoughts were only prompted by realising I wouldn't have had to build a kits of these relatively obscure prototypes if I hadn't wanted to.

 

Of course, there will always be folk, myself included, who will continue to build even if there is an equivalent RTR model simply for the pleasure of doing so, And as a modeller of BR(NE) I too need to build kits to fill gaps in the roster - RTR hasn't  filled them all yet.

 

Incidentally, Gravity Dreams is among my favourite SF/Fantasy novels with Modesitt up there with giants like Asimov, Simak and Heinlein.

Good afternoon John,

 

'Of course, there will always be folk, myself included, who will continue to build even if there is an equivalent RTR model simply for the pleasure of doing so'

 

Exactly my sentiments. 

 

Of course there are those, for whatever reason, who cannot (or will not) build things, and for them the RTR market is entirely suited.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[john new]

22 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

I ordered from them a bit more recently than that and received an updated catalogue in the post fairly recently (sorry but I can't find it right now to check the date), everything done the old-fashioned way by Royal Mail and a cheque, so it might be worth dropping them a line.

 

MABEX - I have discovered they have a Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/KingfisherModelsMabex/  - a bit vague as to what they still stock, for example stating they are out of kits (post dated 2020) but you can still, apparently, buy a kits catalogue! I have messengered, as per their suggested contact route, to ask about transfer stocks and if they still do them will be buying a catalogue.

 

It is a bit like the kits -v- RTR dilemma do I try making my own transfers, I haven't yet needed to but have bought the materials ready to experiment, or simply take the easier route and buy them in?

[Tony Wright]

On 03/11/2021 at 16:22, davidw said:

No it did not. I believe that the coupling mechanism was incompatible. I'm sure that there were other reasons too.

Good evening David,

 

I think it's the braking systems which are different between the Gresley and Peppercorn (and Thompson) Pacifics. 

 

Which precluded the A1s from operating the non-stop because the corridor tenders were vacuum-braked only.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[john new]

3 hours ago, john new said:

 

MABEX - I have discovered they have a Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/KingfisherModelsMabex/  - a bit vague as to what they still stock, for example stating they are out of kits (post dated 2020) but you can still, apparently, buy a kits catalogue! I have messengered, as per their suggested contact route, to ask about transfer stocks and if they still do them will be buying a catalogue.

 

It is a bit like the kits -v- RTR dilemma do I try making my own transfers, I haven't yet needed to but have bought the materials ready to experiment, or simply take the easier route and buy them in?

The response is that what is in the 2021 catalogue should be available. There are copies on line in Facebook or £3 by post.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by john new