Wright writes.....

[Dylan Sanderson]

17 hours ago, drmditch said:

 

I live near here, and use the old railway routes now comfortably converted to Paths by Durham County council quite frequently.

If you perform a search on Relly Mill Junction, you will find more material.

By the way there are variant spellings - Relly/Relley/Deerness/Dearness - just to confuse search engines!

 

It is not 'an ECML Diversion'! It was and is, since 1872, on the ECML itself.

 

There was a post on RMWeb - ...here...

 

There was an article in British Railways Illustrated for March 1996 (Vol.5 No.6) by 'MB'. Pictures are from 1955 to 1963. If you are unable to locate a copy let me know. Several of the pictures are listed as from the Neville Stead collection. I can't place my copy just at present; I was using it in my Railway Room a few months ago and it may have got buried under other projects.

 

Your Diagram, at the bottom left, appears to miss the junction (Bridge House) between the ECML and the Bishop Auckland line. (The latter was the original line here  by the way)

 

As others have said, do join NERA.

The Signal Box is probably a Northern Division type, although the border between the divisions did change several times.

Many thanks for the info, @drmditch! I presumed Deerness was a diversion because a few photos I've found of 'top links' working the area say they're diverting due to line blockage at Ferryhill. Everyday's a school day!

 

I've found a copy of the March 1996 issue of BR Illustrated on eBay for the pricey sum of £3 on eBay, so if you think it's worth it, I'll invest!

 

The track diagram is dated 10th June 1901, which might be why the Bridge House junction is missing?

 

Thanks for the info on the Signal Box, is it the same type as Haydon Bridge? They look fairly similar to my untrained eye!

 

Many thanks for your help,

 

Dylan

 

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

Many thanks for the info, @drmditch! I presumed Deerness was a diversion because a few photos I've found of 'top links' working the area say they're diverting due to line blockage at Ferryhill. Everyday's a school day!

 

I've found a copy of the March 1996 issue of BR Illustrated on eBay for the pricey sum of £3 on eBay, so if you think it's worth it, I'll invest!

 

The track diagram is dated 10th June 1901, which might be why the Bridge House junction is missing?

 

Thanks for the info on the Signal Box, is it the same type as Haydon Bridge? They look fairly similar to my untrained eye!

 

Many thanks for your help,

 

Dylan

 

The ECML as it is now only came into existence when the line from Deerness to Hoggersgate Junction, where it joined the Leamside line (the original ECML up here!) was built. Hoggersgate Junction is today known as Tursdale Junction, of course 

[Tony Wright]

Does anyone know exactly where this is, please?

 

 

The loco is 47673, shedded at 9A, Longsight.

 

It's definitely ex-LNWR territory (note the signal above the first coach), so, somewhere in the Manchester suburbs out from London Road? 

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

 

 

[woodenhead]

Just now, Tony Wright said:

Does anyone know exactly where this is, please?

 

 

The loco is 47673, shedded at 9A, Longsight.

 

It's definitely ex-LNWR territory (note the signal above the first coach), so, somewhere in the Manchester suburbs out from London Road? 

 

Thanks in anticipation. 

 

 

Looks like Heaton Chapel

[woodenhead]

Yep, that is Egerton Road behind it, the distinctive building behind the signal is still standing but I am having a problem getting it into the reply.

[paul2001]

5 hours ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

Many thanks for the info, @drmditch! I presumed Deerness was a diversion because a few photos I've found of 'top links' working the area say they're diverting due to line blockage at Ferryhill. Everyday's a school day!

 

I've found a copy of the March 1996 issue of BR Illustrated on eBay for the pricey sum of £3 on eBay, so if you think it's worth it, I'll invest!

 

The track diagram is dated 10th June 1901, which might be why the Bridge House junction is missing?

 

Thanks for the info on the Signal Box, is it the same type as Haydon Bridge? They look fairly similar to my untrained eye!

 

Many thanks for your help,

 

Dylan

 

Hi Dylan.

Bridge House Junc. Doesn't directly connect to the section of line you showed in the signal box diagram. One of the routes ducks under where's you've shown and has a trailing connection to the Consett line at Baxter Wood No. 2 signal box. 

 

A diversion from Darlington via Bishop Auckland to Durham is perfectly feasible to avoid Ferryhill. 

 

All the best Paul.

[Tony Wright]

Regarding the fast track at Little Bytham, by 1958 most (if not all) was flat-bottom.

 

 

Still in 60' lengths, though.

 

 

By 1962 (with the station demolished) the slow roads were still bullhead. It probably lasted until they were re-aligned.

[Tony Wright]

The images from Bytham's 1938 LNER Weekend seemed to be popular.

 

So, a few more (even though I showed these at the time; it was over three years ago).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gr.king]

Thanks for showing those again Tony.

 

For the benefit of those who like to point out others' errors, the owner of the engineer's vehicles visible in some of those pictures is already very well aware that the ballast wagons are not actually LNER types but they were a gift, they are neatly finished, and the building of authentic ones is somewhere on the "to do" list. The same owner is also well aware that the 1880s MS&LR 25T bogie mineral brake doing service with the ballast wagons ought to be in Oxford blue too if it is in the Engineer's fleet, which would seem likely by the late 1930s. The cover story will have to be that it is just being tried out for suitability, and will only get a re-paint if adopted for long term use. Its number, if anybody manages to read it is almost certainly wrong too. If an authentic LNER 1930s departmental number for this type of ballast brake can be found, it would be of some interest...

[30368]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

So, a few more (even though I showed these at the time; it was over three years ago).

Good Evening Tony,

 

To me, and I suspect to many, this is all new. Wonderful images of a great loyout and the locomotives and rolling stock are first class. Smashing, many thanks!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, 30368 said:

Good Evening Tony,

 

To me, and I suspect to many, this is all new. Wonderful images of a great loyout and the locomotives and rolling stock are first class. Smashing, many thanks!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

That's very kind of you Richard,

 

However, the thanks should really go to the 'Grantham team' who brought all their stock for the weekend to run on Little Bytham, and actually ran the layout while Jesse Sim and I did the filming. In fact, particular thanks must go to Jesse for coming all the way from Australia to participate. 

 

My hardest job, again with Jesse's help, was to remove all my 1958 stock beforehand - then put it back afterwards! 

 

If you'd like to see how the whole thing turned out 'in motion', just Google Little Bytham Model Railway and you can watch it.

 

I'll post some more images from the 1938 weekend tomorrow. 

 

Who'd have believed, some five years ago that I'd become great chums with a guy 50 years my junior, covered in tattoos, body piercings and with long hair - from Australia? Jesse challenged my prejudices and it's a privilege to call him a mate. He's also becoming a very-accomplished modeller. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Chas Levin]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The images from Bytham's 1938 LNER Weekend seemed to be popular.

 

So, a few more (even though I showed these at the time; it was over three years ago).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Enjoying the photos Tony; I know they weren't the main point of them, but they also contain a fine selection of teak vehicles!

[t-b-g]

2 minutes ago, Chas Levin said:

Enjoying the photos Tony; I know they weren't the main point of them, but they also contain a fine selection of teak vehicles!

 

I thought the change in period improved the layout greatly but there again, I am highly biased! Varnished teak is my second favourite livery, only surpassed by GCR brown and cream. What we really need now is a GNR session, with Stirling singles (not just No 1 on the anniversary runs) 0-4-2s, 2-4-0s and suchlike.

 

It will never happen as I would hazard a guess that not enough correct period OO gauge models of such things exist to stock the layout.

 

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, gr.king said:

The same owner is also well aware that the 1880s MS&LR 25T bogie mineral brake doing service with the ballast wagons ought to be in Oxford blue

 

I wouldn't worry about it too much, my Father recalled seeing loads of departmental stock in the sidings at Neville hill in the late 30s. The first time he saw anything painted Oxford blue, was on a model railway, it was quite a surprise.

[Jesse Sim]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

That's very kind of you Richard,

 

However, the thanks should really go to the 'Grantham team' who brought all their stock for the weekend to run on Little Bytham, and actually ran the layout while Jesse Sim and I did the filming. In fact, particular thanks must go to Jesse for coming all the way from Australia to participate. 

 

My hardest job, again with Jesse's help, was to remove all my 1958 stock beforehand - then put it back afterwards! 

 

If you'd like to see how the whole thing turned out 'in motion', just Google Little Bytham Model Railway and you can watch it.

 

I'll post some more images from the 1938 weekend tomorrow. 

 

Who'd have believed, some five years ago that I'd become great chums with a guy 50 years my junior, covered in tattoos, body piercings and with long hair - from Australia? Jesse challenged my prejudices and it's a privilege to call him a mate. He's also becoming a very-accomplished modeller. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I can’t believe it’s been over three years since that weekend. 
 

I wouldn’t have missed an opportunity like that, thanks to you and the rest of the chaps for the invite. It was such an excellent weekend and five weeks for me in the UK. 
 

Halfway through putting your 58 stock back on. 

 

A picture you took of me taking the controls during us running trains for the other BRM video. Who needs you Tony, I know how to run LB with my eyes closed, with no cock ups! 

 

and lastly the team! Bit of a blurry photo as it’s a photo of a photo…. But you get the idea. 

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I thought the change in period improved the layout greatly but there again, I am highly biased! Varnished teak is my second favourite livery, only surpassed by GCR brown and cream. What we really need now is a GNR session, with Stirling singles (not just No 1 on the anniversary runs) 0-4-2s, 2-4-0s and suchlike.

 

It will never happen as I would hazard a guess that not enough correct period OO gauge models of such things exist to stock the layout.

 

It's a wonderful idea Tony,

 

The period would have to be between 1911 (when the main line was quadrupled) and the Grouping of 1923 (or just after, because 'LNER' wasn't instantly universal), which includes WW1. Every signal (not just two, for 1938) would have to be replaced by somersaults, and one building would have to be removed, but that's all, really. If someone would like to offer all the necessary OO stock on loan for a weekend (a reasonable representation would do, not a complete substitution of 50-odd trains and more than 100 locos), then it's possible (providing Graham Nicholas would be prepared to make all those signals - the two he made for 1938 were later sold for CRUK).

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

I can’t believe it’s been over three years since that weekend. 
 

I wouldn’t have missed an opportunity like that, thanks to you and the rest of the chaps for the invite. It was such an excellent weekend and five weeks for me in the UK. 
 

Halfway through putting your 58 stock back on. 

 

A picture you took of me taking the controls during us running trains for the other BRM video. Who needs you Tony, I know how to run LB with my eyes closed, with no cock ups! 

 

and lastly the team! Bit of a blurry photo as it’s a photo of a photo…. But you get the idea. 

Thanks Jesse,

 

It looks like I'm making some repairs; inevitable when loads of stock is picked up, packed up and then put back!

 

And, I've picked up the very common sight of locomotives running along Station Road. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Tony Wright
to add something

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

It's a wonderful idea Tony,

 

The period would have to be between 1911 ...... then it's possible (providing Graham Nicholas would be prepared to make all those signals - the two he made for 1938 were later sold for CRUK).

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

    WOTSPLURTHCOUGH!!!!!!!!

 

Sound of mouthful of tea being spluttered into a large steaming hot bowl of porridge I WAS enjoying.

 

Time to get stuck into your stash of late Victorian/Edwardian 2-2-2s, 4-2-2s, 2-4-0s, clerestory coaches (etc) Tony...

[Compound2632]

18 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Time to get stuck into your stash of late Victorian/Edwardian 2-2-2s, 4-2-2s, 2-4-0s, clerestory coaches (etc) Tony...

 

By the period Tony mentioned - post-1911 - the expresses would all be in the hands of Atlantics? RTR! Indeed if you stretch to 1922, you can have a couple of Gresley pacifics...

 

Perhaps one could round up enough GNR enthusiasts modelling in the wider gauges who would be willing to pop 00 wheelsets into their stock for a weekend?

[LNER4479]

17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

By the period Tony mentioned - post-1911 - the expresses would all be in the hands of Atlantics? RTR! Indeed if you stretch to 1922, you can have a couple of Gresley pacifics...

 

Perhaps one could round up enough GNR enthusiasts modelling in the wider gauges who would be willing to pop 00 wheelsets into their stock for a weekend?

I did think that BUT in a similar manner to our period, the cascade principle was in operation so plenty of work still for the previous generation (maybe the Singles might be stretching it a bit) By way of example, in 1931, Grantham shed had 13 Pacifics allocated against 16 Atlantics. Translate that back 20 years and the 2-2-2s and 2-4-0s would still be around in numbers. Not to mention the bewildering array of older 0-6-0s for the prodigious goods traffic, supplemented by some 0-8-0s ... and maybe even an American 2-6-0 perhaps?

 

The GNR and the LNER were notoriously parsimonious (in the latter case badly affected by the 1920s/1930s slump/depression)

[gr.king]

Stand by for a OO gauge GN liveried 0-6-0 if I manage to get there for my planned visit in December, viral considerations permitting. I'm afraid it is only appropriate to the period before 1906 though. Can you stretch the time frame that far back?

[gr.king]

I know a man who has been rebuilding a scratch-built Baldwin mogul too, but I'm afraid it will be 18.83 gauge and almost certainly finished in GCR livery.

[t-b-g]

31 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Stand by for a OO gauge GN liveried 0-6-0 if I manage to get there for my planned visit in December, viral considerations permitting. I'm afraid it is only appropriate to the period before 1906 though. Can you stretch the time frame that far back?

 

If it was me organising such a thing (it is a good job it isn't me as I am the worst organiser around) I wouldn't worry about things like the signals and buildings. I would leave the layout just as it is and just say that anything in pre 1923 condition goes.

 

As TW has pointed out, there are a few anomalies on Little Bytham in terms of dates and periods, so a few more for a special occasion shouldn't really be a major concern. 

 

It would be all about getting a big enough selection of GNR stock together. There must be some OO Gauge modellers working in the pre 1923 period but I don't recall seeing very much in the press or at shows, if any at all. Almost all the 4mm scale GNR modelling I have seen has been in EM or P4.

 

All my GNR stuff, plus that of a good friend of mine, is in EM Gauge and I wouldn't be keen on rebuilding or altering things just for a photo session and a day or two running.

 

Of course there have been a few RTR models but I would like to think that it would be not in the spirit of Little Bytham to rely too much on those.

[Brit70053]

19 hours ago, paul2001 said:

A diversion from Darlington via Bishop Auckland to Durham is perfectly feasible to avoid Ferryhill. 

 

All the best Paul.

Hello Dylan, if I may add to Paul's contribution,  :

Sunday diversions of Main Line services due to engineering work, were also regular during the late 1950s - early 1960s and could make it the best day of the week for 'Spotting' in my locality. My home station on the Bishop Auckland to Durham route was Brandon Colliery, the last Station a diverted north bound service would pass through before regaining the 'Main Line' at the Relly Mill/ Deerness Valley Junction complex and continuing to Durham.

Anything could turn up on a Sunday, and although I was initially too young and uneducated in railway matters to distinguish between many Loco types, I do know that A3s and A4s were among such motive power (I was told what I'd seen by more experienced Spotters). I do have a distinct memory of my first sight of a D200 Diesel on such a diverted service. 

             The editions of Steam Days Magazine I mentioned in the topic by 'Rbage' to which you've already had reference, have  excellent photographs and articles which may be of use to you if you can obtain copies.

               Wishing you well with your layout.

 

Regards,

                 John  

                            

               

 

[LNER4479]

22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

The images from Bytham's 1938 LNER Weekend seemed to be popular.

 

So, a few more (even though I showed these at the time; it was over three years ago).

 

Before we lose the thread on this lovely memory of (over) three years ago, can I crave your indulgence for the moment on one train in particular? Tony's photo above shows this train from the prototypical lineside viewpoint, but here it is on the set-up weekend two weeks earlier.

 

One thing of course that we're not able to do routinely on Grantham is to run the trains in scale length formations - the layout would have to be twice as big to do that ... plus the extra stock building; there are limits! So the 'retro' weekend was an almost unique opportunity to set up something like this - the 'famous' (well, only if you're in to 1930s LNER) 10.10 Leeds departure from Kings Cross. All those classic pre-war King's Cross line ups naturally focus on the departure of the 10.0am 'Flying Scotsman' but there's always at least three other pacific hauled trains in the background. The 10.5am was the relief - inevitably known as the 'Junior Scotsman' - and the 10.10 was the Leeds service (some years it was 10.15, I believe). There was also a 10.20 Newcastle train. FOUR mainline express departures in 20 minutes! Classic pre-war railway operating - any goods traffic heading towards the notorious two track bottle neck at Hadley Wood (only eradicated in the mid-1950s) would be queued on the slows at Greenwood box to allow this 'wave' of expresses a clear path. We depict the 'backwash' of it all at Grantham some two hours later, with the Flying Scotsman, Junior Scotsman and the Leeds train following in quick (if we're slick!) succession.

 

Anyhow - at the retro weekend, we depicted the full formation as follows:

 

At the head is the experimental cinema coach which was trialled on this service for a short time. Lovingly recreated by Roy Mears - I understand it has seats inside it!! There follows a classic three-coach through portion - BTK-TK-BCK - in this case to Harrogate

Then the 'core' of the train, none other than the unique GNR quintuplet dining set. This was one half of its regular diagram; it returned on the evening businessman's express back to London.

 

And then, just look at the coaches bringing up the rear? ANOTHER three-coach portion, this time a BFK-TK-BTK for Bradford (showing just how important a destination that was regarded as), the BG is also for Bradford, so these four would have been dropped off at Wakefield. And then, at the very rear, a BTK-BCK two coach portion for Hull, detached at Doncaster.

 

15 vehicles in all (ALL kit built - other than the leading vehicle, take a bow Jonathan I believe), remarkably TEN of them being brake vehicles (if you count the first vehicle as such). I love this sort of stuff and it was very satisfying to assemble such a train and run it on such a setting. What's more, my signature loco - LNER 4479 - nothing more than a detailed (me) and beautifully weathered (Tom F) Hornby product - actually managed to shift this lot reasonably competently, I seem to recall, Tony?

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by LNER4479