Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

47 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

DJH seem to have zero interest in 4mm these days. I suspect they are merely selling off existing stocks. There certainly have been no new kits released for several years now.

DJH hasn't released a new 4mm loco kit for nearly 20 years, Jeff.

 

That was the Brighton Atlantic, which I test-built and wrote the instructions for. 

 

Apparently, the market just isn't there now. I think the situation is that until a request for a particular kit (six?) is received, one will have to wait. However, the firm regularly restocks its most popular types (though why not the A3?). I'm usually supplied with what I ask for within a week or two.

 

In a way, it's the same old story - wave goodbye to kit sales once an RTR equivalent is announced. I had two SEF W1s to build (one original and one rebuilt) for customers, for them only to cancel after Hornby's announcement. Who can blame them? Hornby's examples cost at least six times less than they'd have had to pay if I'd completed them. 

 

I just sold the kits on (at a loss!). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[micklner]

45 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Mick,

 

Just to clarify - 'Only the A2 and the A2/1 left for the LNER pacific r.t.r market' - I assume you mean the Raven A2 and A2/1? The A2/1 was the single example fitted with a Gresley boiler and cab.

 

There is the Thompson A2/1, of course; and the singular (and much-maligned) A1/1 rebuild of Gresley's pioneer Pacific.

 

I've long ago ceased guessing as to what the RTR boys might be considering next. I'm flattered, of course, to be asked for assistance (imagine my incredulity when two RTR manufactures simultaneously asked me to help with an A2/2 and A2/3!). This usually takes the form of their borrowing a loco or two I've built (the forthcoming RTR A5 was a case in point) which helps them get a 'feel' for what the finished thing might look/feel like. The caveat is, as always, that they should not use what I've built as a basis for designing their models. At the moment, at least two of my locos are being 'studied' by manufacturers. Non-disclosure insists I cannot reveal what they are. If I were to I'd, quite properly, be dropped like a stone. I also assist by attending meetings and loaning drawings/books/ diagrams and photographs. 

 

The same is so for carriages of LNER/ER origin.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

The Thommo version , I have never heard of a Raven A2/1 before. I forgot poor old GN !!

[Tony Wright]

1 minute ago, micklner said:

The Thommo version , I have never heard of a Raven A2/1 before. I forgot poor old GN !!

Sorry Mick,

 

I should have got my facts right. Prior to the fitting of a Gresley boiler to 2404, all the Raven Pacifics were just plain A2. After that, the other four became Class A2/1 and CITY OF RIPON became Class A2/2 (the RCTS Part 2A, Figs 197, 198 and 199).

 

Odd, isn't it, that those same classifications should be used later for equally-mediocre Pacifics? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

[Compound2632]

45 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Odd, isn't it, that those same classifications should be used later for equally-mediocre Pacifics? 

 

But were they mediocre? Compared to the the first Great Northern / LNER Pacifics?

[jrg1]

Still on the back-burner due to a house move.  The chassis has been modified for P4, with Nick Easton's footplate etch replacing the cast item, along with a cab etch, and a modified SE Finecast A1 boiler

[Woodcock29]

Did someone mention the W1!

 

Here's a photo of the version I built back in the late 80s - so its over 30 years old and definitely a product of its time. Don't think I've shown this before?

 

 

Its built from two Trix A4 bodies - joined in the firebox, which used to be available from Dapol for £3.50 ea. It has a Comet Gresley A1/A3 chassis, Crownline valve gear, cylinders made from a block of laminated plastic card, home made slidebars (you can't really see them!). Its has an old Triang bogie as the basis for the rear frames - which I've made as a bogie as it needed to traverse 2ft radius curves on the layout I had at the time, which has a plastic frame built around it. The tender is a modified Triang/Hornby A4 tender - this definitely needs replacing. On the loco the cab windows use brass frames I got from somewhere but they are not high enough and the colour, which is my own mix is too light - at the time I thought the Humbrol Garter blue was much too light and Precision too dark. I think I darkened the Humbrol Garter blue with another Humbrol blue. Its fitted with a large Portescap which is quiet and runs really well.

 

Its probably a candidate for a rebuild at some stage. I have several of the GBT magazine A4s so could use a couple of those bodies or just fix the cab windows and repaint. Mind you there are probably a 100+ projects ahead of it!

 

Andrew

 

[St Enodoc]

56 minutes ago, Woodcock29 said:

Its built from two Trix A4 bodies - joined in the firebox, which used to be available from Dapol for £3.50 ea.

I remember those days, when Dapol were selling off old Trix/Liliput mouldings. I bought an AL1 - must get round to building it one day.

[uax6]

7 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Good to know, thanks Tony. 

 

Also known as PCB drills.. They get a lot more stick in drilling machines drilling out all the component holes...

 

Andy G

[Jesse Sim]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

I'm passing on all of my bad traits (and there are many!). 

 

 

As you know, your Raven A2 once belonged to the late John Brown of the Spalding Club. Who built it, isn't known, but the pro' paint job has the look of Larry Goddard's work. 

 

Yes, the W1. You bet, once Hornby's goes on sale, look out for how many will suddenly appear on layouts. 

 

I built mine (from a South Eastern Finecast kit, which Ian Rathbone painted) during the last year of the last century; long before a decent A4 donor or an RTR example were ever thought of. 

 

 

A decent enough (and immensely-powerful) layout loco?

 

 

And guesting on Biggleswade.

 

Little Bytham has hosted at least two more (rebuilt) W1s.

 

 

Tom Rance's.

 

 

And David West's.

 

Both these are Hornby A4/Graeme King cast resin parts adaptations.

 

And, Graeme King's own Hornby conversion, running (in EM form) on Retford.

 

 

The above three are superior in most respects (other than in their haulage capacity, motion and painting) to my SEF kit-built one (that's not to say their painting/weathering is poor - in fact, it's excellent).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

We also found that Geoff Haynes did some work on her when I brought it over in 19 for it to be repaired (by you) and weathered. 
 

It’s a cracking loco, one of my finest in my roster/collection. Even with DCC! 
 

I must finish my W1, I’ve rang SEF twice now about a tender and I don’t hear anything back. Then it needs to be painted, which I think I might get someone to do. 

[30368]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

There is the Thompson A2/1

 

Tony/Mick,

 

Not forgetting the PDK version of the Thompson A2/1 which, I undestand PDK are prepared a new batch. My wife is buying one for me for Christmas or rather I have one on order and Mrs B will provide the funds.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But were they mediocre? Compared to the the first Great Northern / LNER Pacifics?

Good morning Stephen,

 

My dictionary defines 'mediocre' as ' Of middling quality, indifferent, neither good nor bad', which I suppose is fair. 

 

There's no doubt that that the Raven A2s were probably just as 'mediocre' as the original Gresley A1s, but that was the best they'd ever be. As noted before, the A1s were the 'dawn' of a development, where the A2s were the 'dusk'. The design could not be developed (by the way, the fitting of a Gresley boiler to a single A2 was not, as has been reported elsewhere, because it steamed better than the original boiler - it probably didn't steam as well - but because it then gave the A2s a spare boiler). 

 

Before long, the A1s were fitted with long-travel valves, then higher-pressure boilers as A3s, then, ultimately, the universal fitting of Kylchap double pots to the whole class. Indeed, right at the end of their lives, the A3s were running further and faster than ever before, some, at over 40 years old (originally as A1s). It's inconceivable that the Raven A2s would ever have accomplished that. 'Mediocre' can never have been an adjective for the A3s. 

 

As for those Thompson Pacifics, I think this thread started off in 2012 discussing those. They keep on recurring (and why not?). More-recent books have been kinder to Thompson, but the works of the likes of Rogers, Nock and Yeadon have not been so, particularly with regard to his Pacifics. Nock had the advantage of having stayed with Thompson at his home, where his ideas were discussed. Nock couldn't believe why the P2s were rebuilt, having sampled their unique abilities on the road pre-War. In fairness, the RCTS believes Thompson was 'making the best of a bad job' by rebuilding them; the problem was he made a 'bad job' worse with the A2/2s! 

 

The RCTS also reckons that the rebuilt GREAT NORTHERN's day-to-day performance was better than the average A3 or A4 at the time. But this was just pre-War, when the Gresley Pacifics were worn out and knackered. With all-round Kylchaps, the A1/1 couldn't then compete, and ended its days on secondary work. Rebuilt as the precursor for a 'new-style', post-War A1 (and, one assumes that all the other A1s/A3s would have been so rebuilt), it remained a one-off, and the subsequent Peppercorn A1 was a very, very different machine. Not surprising, especially as Peppercorn (after ET had retired) reinstated many of Gresley's design team whom Thompson had 'moved sideways'. 

 

It's much the same with the other two Pacific classes, the A2/1s (the four 'orphans of the storm') and the new-build A2/3s. The quartet didn't last as long as the V2s from which they were derived (and needed many more time in shops), and the original number of 30 A2/3s was cut by half when Peppercorn took over. His own A2 was, again, very different. 

 

Down the years, I've had the privilege of talking to professional railwaymen (drivers, firemen and designers), many of whom have now died. They worked on, with and repaired the Thompson Pacifics and few, if any, had a good word for them. The locos were fast and powerful, but rode badly and were generally unreliable. To be fair, the later A1s also rode badly, but they were very reliable. 

 

The discussion will no doubt carry on, and on...............

 

The Thompson Pacifics make fascinating models, however. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

I had a phone call the other evening from a widow, asking for my assistance in 'disposing' of her late husband's model railway collection. Her husband had died in August. Though I can't recall him, I must have spoken to him at shows, since he had my card (which his widow then used to get in touch with me).

 

From what she said, his collection was mainly locomotives, and all RTR - Hornby/Bachmann/Oxford/Heljan/etc, all steam-outline and all boxed. The 'problem' was he'd detailed/altered/weathered, etc, all of them, so they were no longer original. Ironically (so it would appear), despite their then being 'more accurate', their resale value (especially to collectors) is then less.

 

Sadly, I told her I did not 'deal' in such things and advised her to contact the second-hand dealers. One hopes she'll get something back. 

[gr.king]

13 hours ago, micklner said:

Only the A2 and the A2/1 left for the LNER pacific r.t.r market , who knows in the future Mr Hornby  !!

 

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Mick,

 

Just to clarify - 'Only the A2 and the A2/1 left for the LNER pacific r.t.r market' - I assume you mean the Raven A2 and A2/1? The A2/1 was the single example fitted with a Gresley boiler and cab. 

 

When I first read Peter Townend's book on the Pacifics at work, I was intrigued to see that there was once a proposal for a RAVEN A2/3, which would have almost completed the "Greseleyization" of the appearance of the locos, with not just the boiler but also the cylinders, Walschaerts gear, frame fronts and bogie position of the then A1 class. The only obvious remaining visible NE feature, if I remember rightly, was to be the central portion of the running plate with its deeper splashers. Surprisingly I thought, there were alternative proposals for three or just two cylinders. An indication of doubts about conjugated motion, or the strength and suitability of altered frames, or the reception that the NE area might give to to the "desecration" of Raven locos that would be the result of fitting Gresley motion?

Anyway, somebody at that stage obviously still thought that the Raven locos might be a useful asset to perpetuate and develop.

[Tony Wright]

Having written a little piece about making point rodding for the latest edition of BRM, I've now been told that the little booklet I recommended on the subject, published by the 2mm Association, is only available to members of the Association (mine is a complimentary copy). 

 

It's brilliant, and, as far as I know, nothing like it has ever been published before. In my view, it's worthy of a much wider audience - indeed, it should be the 'modelling standard' on the subject. 

 

May I suggest joining the 2MM Association, if only to acquire it?

[Dylan Sanderson]

All this talk of the W1 and, more accurately 60700 has got me thinking!

 

During her 1958 36A days, did she ever work North of York? I can only find concrete evidence of her working expresses to 'the cross' from York and Leeds.

 

Thanks in advanced,

 

Dylan

[micklner]

49 minutes ago, 30368 said:

 

Tony/Mick,

 

Not forgetting the PDK version of the Thompson A2/1 which, I undestand PDK are prepared a new batch. My wife is buying one for me for Christmas or rather I have one on order and Mrs B will provide the funds.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

My A2/1 is a Graeme King resin and etched parts  V2 Bachmann conversion, pulling a Hornby B1 tender,  I have also built using the Bachmann A2 as a base my A2/2 and A2/3's  (plus a DJH A2/3 ).   My A2/1 works very well and goes around corners which is far more than the PDK A1/1 I built and then sold on as it was poor in all departments. After building I only then realised that the fold up chassis was too wide and left virtually zero sideplay. I havent used PDK since once was enough for me. 

I have used Hornby A3's as a base for two LNER versions of GN with Grames resin and etched parts. There are photos of them on my thread see below for a link.

 

Thompson Pacifics have been down a a very well worn path on here and elsewhere. If they were so bad why did'nt BR scrap them much earlier than they did ? .  They were only scrapped at the same time  as all small classes on BR were, in the late 50's and early 60's . Like all BR locos they suffered from poor maintenace and lack of overall care. The much vaunted A3 were not perfect, they  suffered from cracked frames and other faults, as all Steam Locos do.  Scotsman still has the same problem as  on its last rebuild.

 

Raven A2 they were built with no spare Boilers ,as they were a rush job as already said. The LNER experimented on one with a A1 Boiler , it would appear with little improvement. At the same time they were building the A3's and  they were probably simply surplus to requirments , not really a surprise the cash strapped LNER then scrapped them, as the Boilers expired.

 

My build thread

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by micklner

[30368]

37 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The Thompson Pacifics make fascinating models, however. 

 

 

Spot on Tony, that is my view too.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[polybear]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Having written a little piece about making point rodding for the latest edition of BRM, I've now been told that the little booklet I recommended on the subject, published by the 2mm Association, is only available to members of the Association (mine is a complimentary copy). 

 

It's brilliant, and, as far as I know, nothing like it has ever been published before. In my view, it's worthy of a much wider audience - indeed, it should be the 'modelling standard' on the subject. 

 

May I suggest joining the 2MM Association, if only to acquire it?

 

I'm fairly sure that non-members can buy this publication from exhibitions where there is a 2mm Association Stand - that's how I got mine.

All you need now is just such an exhibition....

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Having written a little piece about making point rodding for the latest edition of BRM, I've now been told that the little booklet I recommended on the subject, published by the 2mm Association, is only available to members of the Association (mine is a complimentary copy). 

 

It's brilliant, and, as far as I know, nothing like it has ever been published before. In my view, it's worthy of a much wider audience - indeed, it should be the 'modelling standard' on the subject. 

 

May I suggest joining the 2MM Association, if only to acquire it?

 

No need Tony, although I don't think the Association would object to a few new members. If you go to their website there is a link to a few publications available for sale to non members via the internet. The point rodding book is there for anybody to purchase.

[Steven B]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Having written a little piece about making point rodding for the latest edition of BRM, I've now been told that the little booklet I recommended on the subject, published by the 2mm Association, is only available to members of the Association (mine is a complimentary copy). 

 

It's brilliant, and, as far as I know, nothing like it has ever been published before. In my view, it's worthy of a much wider audience - indeed, it should be the 'modelling standard' on the subject. 

 

May I suggest joining the 2MM Association, if only to acquire it?

 

The point rodding book is available to everyone (including non 2mm Association members) via their website:

2mm.org.uk/products/nms/index.html

 

£7 including postage to UK addresses.

 

You can also buy the excellent "Track - How it works and how to model it", "Train Lamps & Headcodes" and a track/wagon kit bundle from the same source. All recommended!

 

Steven B.

 

 

 

[zr2498]

'And now for something completely different'

I mentioned quite some time ago that a new bridge was being planned for, based on the Findhorn viaduct (but modified to double track).

 

 

After a considerable amount of kit bashing the first of four truss frames is virtually complete. A little more detailing and those extra rivets to add.

 

 

 

The remaining three are about 60% complete.  But a long way to go. The design and construction is being detailed on a separate thread.

Dave

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by zr2498

[The Fatadder]

2 hours ago, Steven B said:

 

The point rodding book is available to everyone (including non 2mm Association members) via their website:

2mm.org.uk/products/nms/index.html

 

£7 including postage to UK addresses.

 

You can also buy the excellent "Track - How it works and how to model it", "Train Lamps & Headcodes" and a track/wagon kit bundle from the same source. All recommended!

 

Steven B.

 

Was very pleased to find out that it was available to non members, so ordered a copy earlier in the week which arrived today.  Really impressed with the book, wish I had a copy when I was actually planning Brent.

[Ray Flintoft]

6 hours ago, micklner said:

My A2/1 is a Graeme King resin and etched parts  V2 Bachmann conversion, pulling a Hornby B1 tender,  I have also built using the Bachmann A2 as a base my A2/2 and A2/3's  (plus a DJH A2/3 ).   My A2/1 works very well and goes around corners which is far more than the PDK A1/1 I built and then sold on as it was poor in all departments. After building I only then realised that the fold up chassis was too wide and left virtually zero sideplay. I havent used PDK since once was enough for me. 

I have used Hornby A3's as a base for two LNER versions of GN with Grames resin and etched parts. There are photos of them on my thread see below for a link.

 

Thompson Pacifics have been down a a very well worn path on here and elsewhere. If they were so bad why did'nt BR scrap them much earlier than they did ? .  They were only scrapped at the same time  as all small classes on BR were, in the late 50's and early 60's . Like all BR locos they suffered from poor maintenace and lack of overall care. The much vaunted A3 were not perfect, they  suffered from cracked frames and other faults, as all Steam Locos do.  Scotsman still has the same problem as  on its last rebuild.

 

Raven A2 they were built with no spare Boilers ,as they were a rush job as already said. The LNER experimented on one with a A1 Boiler , it would appear with little improvement. At the same time they were building the A3's and  they were probably simply surplus to requirments , not really a surprise the cash strapped LNER then scrapped them, as the Boilers expired.

 

My build thread

 

 

I agree re. the Thompson pacifics , Tony is well aware that I disagree with him on this subject as I consider that they were much better engines than they were made out to be . I too have spoken to many railwaymen and have found varied opinions but most found positives in the power and steaming capacity . the main complaint was in the riding , although as my now deceased next door neighbour , an ex York fireman , told me " Yes the big Thompsons got rough when they got run down , but they were nothing compared to a D.49 , they were truly awful".  It was Thompson , as Mechanical Engineer , Darlington who suggested rebuilding the Raven pacifics with 2 20"x 26" cylinders , outside valve gear & a pushed back tubeplate to improve steaming , however Gresley rejected the idea as he wished to scrap them as soon as possible .

   The Thompson A. 2/1 ran a decent mileage between General repair but did need more light repairs at works . However , they worked on average some 6,000 miles a year more than the average V.2 . I'm sure that Doncaster men will be unhappy to find their top link, on which " Great Northern " regularly appeared , as only being secondary work . She was a common visitor to York on expresses right up to her withdrawal .

                                                                                      Cheers ,

                                                                                              Ray . 

[FarrMan]

1 hour ago, zr2498 said:

'And now for something completely different'

I mentioned quite some time ago that a new bridge was being planned for, based on the Findhorn viaduct (but modified to double track).

 

 

After a considerable amount of kit bashing the first of four truss frames is virtually complete. A little more detailing and those extra rivets to add.

 

 

 

The remaining three are about 60% complete.  But a long way to go. The design and construction is being detailed on a separate thread.

Dave

 

 

Looking good so far. Without a photo for an exact comparison, it looks like the present structure, and the surroundings look like a good representation of what is there. My son moved to a house just to the south of it, so I have seen it a few times recently.

 

Lloyd

[micklner]

From what I have read, the following Gresley designs were also rough riders ,  B17 , K3 any others ?.