RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted December 30, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Any points giving access to a running line were worked by the 'box or were hand-operated, but which had to be unlocked by the 'box first. There were no facing points giving direct access to sidings off the running lines. I can't recall seeing any photos of goods trains setting back into any of the lay-byes to allow faster traffic to pass but it occurs to me that by the date you're modelling the way the traffic was being worked was such that the lay-byes were more-or-less redundant - unfitted mineral trains being kept clear of the ECML by being routed over the GN&GE Joint Line and via March? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted December 30, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 30, 2021 On 28/12/2021 at 08:56, Tony Wright said: Out of possible interest, with regard to the on-going discussion on goods trains. A few B1-hauled freights/parcels.................. Good evening Tony, apologies for going back a few days - there's been so much activity on the thread it's also quite a few pages back now - but I've been busy too and am just catching up with all the recent posts. Can you tell me anything please about the coach behind this B1 photo you posted? Is it a parcels vehicle, or some sort of inspection or departmental one? If it's parcels, was it very usual to run just one in a train like that? Thank you in advance, Chas 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JamieR4489 Posted December 30, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2021 It's been a while since I've shown any of my modelling in this thread so as people are doing a round-up of what they've made this year I thought I'd do the same. At the start of the year I was building carriages, namely a D151 RTP, D5 SFO and a D37A BTK I also started experimenting with CAD and 3D printing early this year and so far I've had a GNR tender, a GN side window K3 cab, a J5 and a C2 boiler and cab made from my own designs (the C2 is still waiting to be built; it'll go on a K's C1 running plate and chassis) The J5 runs on a Chris P Bacon J50 chassis with a high level gearbox and motor. The K3 is a Bachmann model converted to right hand drive and repainted from BR livery. Finally, another carriage, this time an ancient PC kit. The kit is for a D113 teak panelled BG but as the sides have no beading I've done it as a steel panelled D198 My layout, Tuxford North, has also developed quite a lot this year with the scenery progressing in short bursts of enthusiasm. Apologies for the D2 not carrying a lamp. Regards, Jamie 41 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Mick, It's important to get the right nomenclature. I should have realised that. Regards, Tony. 4 1 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2021 13 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said: Ah but that is a BR dia 1/001 with dropsides and ends. The LMS Lowfit had fixed sides and ends. BR Lowfits are a bit of a minefield. Diagram 1/001 were B450000 - 399 built to lot 2107 at Wolverton and Derby. They had an LNER wooden body on and LMS underframe with J-hangers and 8-shoe LMS Clasp brakes. These were followed Diagram 1/002 built at Shildon. These had a steel body. The brakes on the first lot were 8-shoe LNER Clasp, changing in 1952 to 4-shoe Morton, then again for the last lot built in 1959 to 8-shoe BR Clasp. The Mainline/Bachmann model was a mixture of a Diagram 1/001 body on the underframe of the middle period of Diagram 1/002. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2021 (edited) 50 minutes ago, TheSignalEngineer said: BR Lowfits are a bit of a minefield. Diagram 1/001 were B450000 - 399 built to lot 2107 at Wolverton and Derby. They had an LNER wooden body on and LMS underframe with J-hangers and 8-shoe LMS Clasp brakes. These were followed Diagram 1/002 built at Shildon. These had a steel body. The brakes on the first lot were 8-shoe LNER Clasp, changing in 1952 to 4-shoe Morton, then again for the last lot built in 1959 to 8-shoe BR Clasp. The Mainline/Bachmann model was a mixture of a Diagram 1/001 body on the underframe of the middle period of Diagram 1/002. Also, IIRC, the number of side ribs varied on the steel bodied ones, the final batch had more of them..... John Edited December 31, 2021 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted December 31, 2021 Author Share Posted December 31, 2021 11 hours ago, Compound2632 said: I can't recall seeing any photos of goods trains setting back into any of the lay-byes to allow faster traffic to pass but it occurs to me that by the date you're modelling the way the traffic was being worked was such that the lay-byes were more-or-less redundant - unfitted mineral trains being kept clear of the ECML by being routed over the GN&GE Joint Line and via March? Good morning Stephen, From (admittedly scant) photographic evidence, it would appear that the lay-byes (bys?) were mainly used by the pick-up freights in 1958 at Little Bytham (and elsewhere on the section of line). They would park wagons not needed at LB (including the brake van) in the dead-end roads and then conduct any shunting. A friend has a shot of one of his relatives on the footplate of a K3 which has set back into the Down north lay-bye with its unfitted goods train (not a pick-up) during the time modelled (this movement is conducted in the sequence). At times they would be used to store spare or redundant rolling stock (both freight- and passenger-carrying). This is a shot looking west, taken from the bridge carrying the private road to Grimsthorpe Castle (Lord Willoughby's stately pile) over the M&GNR. It was taken in the last full year of east/west line's operation, 1958. A line of open wagons can be seen standing in the Up lay-bye. Since they have no loco attached, and a pick-up would likely to be more mixed (?), I assume they're temporarily stored there (a shot in one of Colin Walker's books shows a line of older carriages parked in the same spot). I've seen a video clip of a B1 shunting at Little Bytham as late as 1963 (four years after the station closed), so the lay-byes might still have been in use. Regards, Tony. 11 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted December 31, 2021 Author Share Posted December 31, 2021 10 hours ago, Chas Levin said: Good evening Tony, apologies for going back a few days - there's been so much activity on the thread it's also quite a few pages back now - but I've been busy too and am just catching up with all the recent posts. Can you tell me anything please about the coach behind this B1 photo you posted? Is it a parcels vehicle, or some sort of inspection or departmental one? If it's parcels, was it very usual to run just one in a train like that? Thank you in advance, Chas Good morning Chas, Those far more knowledgeable than I'll ever be might be able to help more. I think it's an ex-GWR BG of some type, most likely painted in carmine and cream. It looks like it constitutes a complete Class B train. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Good morning Chas, Those far more knowledgeable than I'll ever be might be able to help more. I think it's an ex-GWR BG of some type, most likely painted in carmine and cream. It looks like it constitutes a complete Class B train. Regards, Tony. Looks like a GWR K40 full brake to me based upon the windows, Typically the photo I have of the almost finished model I have been working on (Comet sides on a Hornby B Set coach) shows the other side to that in the photo. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chas Levin Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Good morning Chas, Those far more knowledgeable than I'll ever be might be able to help more. I think it's an ex-GWR BG of some type, most likely painted in carmine and cream. It looks like it constitutes a complete Class B train. Regards, Tony. Thanks Tony - I shall read up on freight classes and their consituents. I've very much enjoying reading through the year's modelling round-ups - yours and everyone else's too. I've spent most of this year's modelling time working on my current C2 build and I posted pictures of that here recently, so I thought I'd wait until it reaches the next significant stage before posting more photos. I hope everyone had a good Christmas and that those who wish to have been able to plan something enjoyable for this evening's celebrations... 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollar Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 On 29/12/2021 at 10:38, LNER4479 said: I should let others comment on exact vehicle types - HOWEVER, having been reading through my reference books in the light of these discussions, I believe the one of the left to be the one that ... er ... most closely matches these Dapol 'LMS' van type that there was been so much talk about, which therefore makes either a D2039 or BR 1/204 (is that anywhere near right?). I will make what I believe to be an informed comment on stickers. From what I've read, traders' labels became a common practice in the 1960s. Hollar make various types of labels that you can buy to stick on your wagons thus. BUT, it was very much a 1960s thing, which fits in with your 1965 photo date, Tony. 1958? Perhaps not so much so ... or even at all The Hollar labels are now available as free downloads on the Scalefour Society and GOG web sites, and many of them were in use in the late 50s. Tony 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollar Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 On 29/12/2021 at 20:05, Northmoor said: As well as the lack of "specials" in reality (compared to what most of us operate), is it also the case that the "typical mixed freight" was actually even less mixed than we like to think? For instance, would fish vans - which most people would see as just vans like any other - ever run in a mixed formation (unless to/from from works etc.), surely they were normally in express block trains as the cargo was perishable. Likewise Tony's cement train; common types like Presflos would normally have been in block services, which for a long time steam era enthusiasts seemed to think were the preserve of the "modern" diesel era. Though Presflos were commonly seen in block trains, there were exceptions. Some time ago MRJ ran an article on Presflos which (to my surprise) said that they could be seen in penny numbers on many branchlines, being unloaded using rudimentary-looking machinery in odd corners of station goods yards. Tony 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post thegreenhowards Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted December 31, 2021 (edited) As it's 'show and tell' time, I present a selection of my modelling for this year. I'm not up to the quality of many of the people who present models on here, but I'm slowly improving and I think my quantity is well up there! I've done a lot of O gauge this year working on stock for the new club O gauge layout which is a Minories style London terminus set in the inter war years. In O gauge there have been a lot of Kirk kits. They are excellent vfm by O gauge standards and I rather enjoy the modular nature where the coaches sides are assembled from individual door & window components - rather like the cut 'n' shuts I used to do with my 00 Kirk kits. Here we have: A BT-T twin art. A BG. Half a quad art with some underframe and interior work still required. The second half is well under way. A F-T twin art. I have finished this off but can't find a finished photo and it's packed away at the moment. On the 0 gauge loco front, three locos were completed: I built this NMRS/ Meteor C12. A lovely kit and quite easy to put together. I also built this J69 from 3D printed parts sitting on a Dapol Terrier chassis. And finally fettled this ready built kit with new pick ups etc. and repainted into LNER livery. In 00, there were a few loco projects: A BEC J69 bought for next to nothing several years with the basic body assembled and a couple of slabs of brass as the beginnings of a chassis. It's been in the roundtoit pile since then but finally got completed this year. I'm afraid it still awaits weathering! An ex GC F2 from a Cotswold kit bought in terrible condition and fettled with some SE Finecast parts. It sits on a Bachmann L&YR chassis. @richard i of this parish took the other halves (ancient chassis and Bachmann body with a few SE Finecast bits) and built a rather splendid GCR version which has been shown on here. Jamieson V2 on Comet chassis cobbled together from different eBay purchases. Hornby A2/3 renumbered and weathered. Bachmann WD renumbered and weathered. Heljan O2 weathered. Bachmann C2 backdated to late LNER condition as 2881 based on a photo in Eric Neve's East Coast from KX. On the 00 coach front, there's just one entry. This GNR BCL from an Isinglass kit. I had pestered Andy Edgson for this for a couple of years and it finally paid off. They survived on KX outer suburban services until the mark 1s and it looks rather good with my Bachmann C2 (as above). That's all folks! Andy Edited December 31, 2021 by thegreenhowards typo 38 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2021 On 28/12/2021 at 09:03, Tony Wright said: And, here's a Grimsby-Peterborough. Could that be an ex-GW 'Fruit D' at the front? Again, please respect copyright. Food for thought? I'm just catching up on the huge number of posts on here during the last week. I'm afraid that I can't add much to the goods wagon debate although I've found it fascinating....and scary when I look at my goods trains! However this photo caught my eye, not for the fruit D from 'the other railway' but for the third coach which I believe is a D.305 steel panelled CK in maroon. Can anyone confirm my suspicions? If so, I'm quite surprised to see one in a steel five set as late as the maroon era as I thought they'd all been replaced by Mk1 or Thompson CKs by that time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said: I'm just catching up on the huge number of posts on here during the last week. I'm afraid that I can't add much to the goods wagon debate although I've found it fascinating....and scary when I look at my goods trains! However this photo caught my eye, not for the fruit D from 'the other railway' but for the third coach which I believe is a D.305 steel panelled CK in maroon. Can anyone confirm my suspicions? If so, I'm quite surprised to see one in a steel five set as late as the maroon era as I thought they'd all been replaced by Mk1 or Thompson CKs by that time. Hi Andy I would say yes it is, on my work bench as I type is some plastic card waiting to have holes made it so it can represent a short steel CK, and I am doing its big brother as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said: Hi Andy I would say yes it is, on my work bench as I type is some plastic card waiting to have holes made it so it can represent a short steel CK, and I am doing its big brother as well. Thanks Clive, I look forward to seeing your take on these somewhat different coaches. You may remember I built the shorter D.190 version from the Southern Pride sides (they market them as D.305 but they're not). I rather mucked up the paint job as I went for LNER brown (because I couldn't face painting ersatz teak on a non panelled vehicle) and chose a rather too orangey colour (Precision Golden Teak). Still an interesting vehicle. Andy Edited December 31, 2021 by thegreenhowards 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 Progress on my very first coupled chassis, the High Level Kits 03 kit for the Bachmann body. I'm building it for P4 with compensation and it has been frustratingly rewarding so far and, I hope, not too bad for a first attempt... Of course, this is the easy part, gearbox assembly is up next along with riveting the two parts of the coupling rods together and horn blocks to fit so plenty of opportunity to screw it up to come and, as Tony says, at least I've made it myself. John 15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2021 This years model list is a work in progress. The spray room is currently difficult to get in due to loft being emptied. Started last Christmas with a Swindon Cross Country DMU, (120) semi sratch built. with Triang floors, roofs, 5 MJT and 1 High Level bogie, lots of resin bits from my own moulds. Currently behind the tree awaiting another coat of paint stripper before being resprayed. 1 Airfix B set carriage resprayed. 2 Bitsof Hawsworth C83 in maroon awaiting glazing 1 Comet Sunshine D127 BTK in primer 1 Comet D83 in fitting handrails 1 Comet C73 in body assembly 1 Comet C54 still in box Various wagons including Airfix cattle, Ratio vans and opens, Chivers MDVs, awaiting pre and post 65 Bauxite. A station building in bare form awaiting the time to fit drain pipes and the like a 6 car Swindon InterCity, Snow Hill Cardiff set as far as sides. Next years jobs are complete the 120, complete and paint the 4 above Comet stock. Buy an E148 Spray all my wagons Build the early DMU Finish my ex MR 2P Do the 5 Airfix aircon rebuilds currently queuing. Get the upstairs room sorted to start on the BR (WR) branch project. Locos I need include 2 GWR 45xx 3 47s 1 37 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted December 31, 2021 Author Share Posted December 31, 2021 5 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: As it's 'show and tell' time, I present a selection of my modelling for this year. I'm not up to the quality of many of the people who present models on here, but I'm slowly improving and I think my quantity is well up there! I've done a lot of O gauge this year working on stock for the new club O gauge layout which is a Minories style London terminus set in the inter war years. In O gauge there have been a lot of Kirk kits. They are excellent vfm by O gauge standards and I rather enjoy the modular nature where the coaches sides are assembled from individual door & window components - rather like the cut 'n' shuts I used to do with my 00 Kirk kits. Here we have: A BT-T twin art. A BG. Half a quad art with some underframe and interior work still required. The second half is well under way. A F-T twin art. I have finished this off but can't find a finished photo and it's packed away at the moment. On the 0 gauge loco front, three locos were completed: I built this NMRS/ Meteor C12. A lovely kit and quite easy to put together. I also built this J69 from 3D printed parts sitting on a Dapol Terrier chassis. And finally fettled this ready built kit with new pick ups etc. and repainted into LNER livery. In 00, there were a few loco projects: A BEC J69 bought for next to nothing several years with the basic body assembled and a couple of slabs of brass as the beginnings of a chassis. It's been in the roundtoit pile since then but finally got completed this year. I'm afraid it still awaits weathering! An ex GC F2 from a Cotswold kit bought in terrible condition and fettled with some SE Finecast parts. It sits on a Bachmann L&YR chassis. @richard i of this parish took the other halves (ancient chassis and Bachmann body with a few SE Finecast bits) and built a rather splendid GCR version which has been shown on here. Jamieson V2 on Comet chassis cobbled together from different eBay purchases. Hornby A2/3 renumbered and weathered. Bachmann WD renumbered and weathered. Heljan O2 weathered. Bachmann C2 backdated to late LNER condition as 2881 based on a photo in Eric Neve's East Coast from KX. On the 00 coach front, there's just one entry. This GNR BCL from an Isinglass kit. I had pestered Andy Edgson for this for a couple of years and it finally paid off. They survived on KX outer suburban services until the mark 1s and it looks rather good with my Bachmann C2 (as above). That's all folks! Andy Good evening Andy, Thanks ever so much for showing us all your models. Don't 'belittle' your efforts, either. It's 'real' railway modelling in my book; personal and self-reliant. You've built from kits/scratch, made 'silk purses' from some sows' ears and exploited what the RTR chaps have to offer. All-round modelling I'd say, so well done. And, all the best for the New Year. Regards, Tony. 1 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted December 31, 2021 Author Share Posted December 31, 2021 3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: I'm just catching up on the huge number of posts on here during the last week. I'm afraid that I can't add much to the goods wagon debate although I've found it fascinating....and scary when I look at my goods trains! However this photo caught my eye, not for the fruit D from 'the other railway' but for the third coach which I believe is a D.305 steel panelled CK in maroon. Can anyone confirm my suspicions? If so, I'm quite surprised to see one in a steel five set as late as the maroon era as I thought they'd all been replaced by Mk1 or Thompson CKs by that time. Good evening again Andy, I think you're right - it is D.305 CK, definitely in maroon. The photograph was taken post-1961, so it's quite late for such a 'complete' steel-sided Gresley five-set. Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2021 The LMS van discussion I have in front of me the Ratio kit and the Dapol RTR. Ratio requires the strapping added, flat as well not L. Dapol at first appears OK but the chassis does look wrong, more later BR I have found some decent views on HMRS Paul site, does require new chassis. Also need to check axles boxes on each photo. Also closer checks show that there is are 2 ex LMS and a BR in the same set, all XP Ply to be VVV BR LMS van Ex LMS van BR Plank VB GWR van 6 plank open 6 plank open Ex LMS van When were the white boxes for running numbers and later on TOPS code introduced, one in particular looks like it has the 3 line box? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2021 Piccies shown previously Comet BTK pre primer Swindon DMU pre strip, paint came off while tidying the border The 2 x C83 in paint Interior and chassis for BTK, interior is Cameo 4 cut as eaasier than Comet parts 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted December 31, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 31, 2021 I have 3 projects on the go Garage BR layout I need to restart lots of BR blue, will be based on Lickey route a Cornish branch in 1960 or so (GWR stock and 45xx and NBL 22) somewhere around Gloucester in mid late 50s, (IC DMU, 2P, 4P and more) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 Ta-ra 2021, won't miss ya, wouldn't want to kiss ya. Proud to survive isolation and attempted cancelation. Poked a big stick at terrible freight trains and even more terrible stock and rip off products. Talked up the height of LMS vans, delineated (in accidental collaboration) GM wagons from minerals. Challenged the veracity of the official railway modelers list of ubiquitous objects. No to SR Van C's, bogie van B's and gangway luggage vans. Where are all the SR PMV's on LB? Will it make any difference? Not on your Nellie. Nostalgia and Accuracy are about as nourishing compatible as moonbeams on toast. Forwards. 1 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted December 31, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 31, 2021 (edited) I'm not sure quite how to finish this year off on Wright writes.......... Firstly, thanks to all who've contributed to this fast-moving thread in the last 12 months; some really interesting, and thought-proving stuff. So, what to do? Like all modellers, I have 'favourites'. In the case of steam locos, it's the Peppercorn A1. By a quick fag packet calculation there must be 20 I've made on Little Bytham, mostly painted by Ian Rathbone, but a couple by me and some now by Geoff Haynes. Though the 'streaks' always caused the greatest excitement at the likes of Retford, I always thought the A1s looked superb, especially since 'handsome is as handsome does', and in terms of reliability and economy they were peerless. I also have 'favourite' trains (express passengers, I'm afraid for those who prefer goods). And, two of those trains were often A1-hauled; in the case of the 'Queen of Scots' just about exclusively in my memory. So, this afternoon, I've 'followed' two A1-hauled trains around Little Bytham, the 'Queen of Scots' and the afternoon 'Talisman'. The A1 is 60130 KESTREL, built by me from a DJH kit and painted by Ian Rathbone. As she heads northwards, 'I've' just taken her picture (yes, that's a Modelu TW just winding on the film!). Though the gradient's against her, it's still a regal passage............ I made the ten-car rake over a quarter of a century ago now, using original Hornby donors clad with Comet sides and detailed with MJT bogies, ventilators and underframe details. Ian Rathbone painted the whole rake, and it was written up in the early days of BRM. I'm cheating a bit here, because I took this picture shortly after Dave Wager delivered his brilliant model of the MR/M&GNR girder bridge last year (which Jamie Guest did the artwork for). I think this is one of my favourite Little Bytham pictures. Apart from a tiny bit of Photoshop greenery to the left of the tree beside the Willoughby, this shows the full scope of the layout (which, to all intents and purposes, is now complete). It also shows how the main line depiction goes on-/off- scene on the straight, with no visible (and 'realism-compromising' in my view) right-angle curves. We all have 'bees in our bonnets' with regard to what matters in our modelling, and that's one of mine. And now, the 'Talisman'; apologies again, because a couple of the shots were also taken last year................... This time the A1 is 60136 ALCAZAR (in conversation with Ian Wilson yesterday, we agreed that whenever we went spotting on the ECML, we saw her every time). Again, I built her from a DJH kit, and Ian painted her. The rake is a mixture of Tony Geary's work and mine. Again, it's getting on a bit, and, yes, I know the leading car should be a BSO rather than a BSK, and the ex-Coronation twin FOs should have extra doors (such knowledge was in the future when I built the pair). I've taken this view showing other A1s, and I think it 'works' quite well. Seen from the footbridge, the winner of the 1934 Doncaster Cup is going very fast. The sharp-eyed will note that ALCAZAR has a Thompson boiler. More to come later............ Edited December 31, 2021 by Tony Wright tautology 51 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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