Wright writes.....

[dibateg]

Thanks chaps - 

I've gone with the lower coal plate, from the few photos I've seen of the rear of J11s, it is more typical  ( bearing in mind the tender is inherited as it were ) .

 

Thanks again for your help.

Tony

[65179]

9 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

We have already established that there were lots of variations in GCR tenders and there were certainly some with a low rear coal plate. You can see them easier in earlier days when they had coal rails rather than side plates.

 

There are, to my knowledge, several different GA drawings for the supposedly "standard" 4,000 Gallon tender, which show variations in sanding gear, water pick up gear etc. so maybe there is one out there with the low coal plate that I haven't got. 

 

Just looking at the ones you mention, one has a very unusual double row of visible rivets attaching the front footsteps. One has the coal rails plated over of the outside with no beading around the outside edge. Just in that tiny sample, there are differences.

 

So they are a minefield of variations and if there is any pattern that has been established or documentation to say which ones had high coal plates and which ones the low version then I haven't seen it.

 

It is hard for anybody to be 100% sure so all I would say is that unless there is firm evidence that the loco Tony Geary is modelling had a low rear coal plate tender in the period that he is modelling it, then it is hard to say that the full height one is wrong.

 

 

 

I fully agree. That just wasn't what I understood your last post to say. Apologies if I misinterpreted you.  To round this discussion off, I've just remembered that there is a GA we both have and that we've both forgotten about (it cropped up in the did all GC scoop wheels have the same number of spokes discussion on here. Oh what fun we have!)  Geoff Holt's Locomotive Modelling Vol.2 has Beyer Peacock's Immingham 4-6-0 tender GA (with a low coalplate). Absolutely no help for Tony's J11 sadly! If in doubt go for a large pile of coal!

 

Simon

Edited January 20, 2022 by 65179

[65179]

Can I ask a question of those who know their LNER?

 

Can anyone tell me what transfers are likely to have been used on B9 1475 in this photo:

 

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=67162&search=B9&category_id=67&page=1

 

It shows 1475 at some point after a general at Gorton in early 1947. The letters are  shaded rather than unshaded 1946 style so what colour are the letters and shading likely to be?

 

Many thanks,

Simon

[jwealleans]

Black loco, yellow lettering shaded red and black.    That would be my conclusion.  Works using up remaining transfers (especially on a loco with a short expected lifespan).

Edited January 20, 2022 by jwealleans

[t-b-g]

49 minutes ago, 65179 said:

Can I ask a question of those who know their LNER?

 

Can anyone tell me what transfers are likely to have been used on B9 1475 in this photo:

 

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=67162&search=B9&category_id=67&page=1

 

It shows 1475 at some point after a general at Gorton in early 1947. The letters are  shaded rather than unshaded 1946 style so what colour are the letters and shading likely to be?

 

Many thanks,

Simon

 

I have seen a few photos of locos that were given "old" transfers after the new style was introduced, so they should be the earlier type, which should be the yellow with red shading for a black loco.

 

I read my previous post and I can see why you responded the way you did. It came across that I might have been saying that all tenders had high rear plates. I was really just trying to say that a high rear plate was not necessarily wrong and illustrating how high a tall rear plate should be. Apologies if I didn't make that as clear as I might have done.

 

I wish there was an easy way to work out the tenders. A list of which dates, which locos or which batches of tenders had which features but if there is a pattern, it is beyond me and I would rather spend my time building models than trawling through archives and photos looking for one.

[65179]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

Black loco, yellow lettering shaded brown.    That would be my conclusion.  Works using up remaining transfers (especially on a loco with a short expected lifespan).

 

Just to be clear, Jonathan are you and Tony both referring to this lettering?

 

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/transfers/lner-later-lettering-numbering-for-black-locos-61482

 

Many thanks,

Simon 

[jwealleans]

I use the HMRS ones for preference, but yes, they're the same ones.

 

I'm not sure why Fox refer to them as 'later', but their knowledge of some of these transfers is sketchy.

Edited January 20, 2022 by jwealleans

[Jol Wilkinson]

13 hours ago, EHertsGER said:

not you specifically, but un-named conspirators that have gone before...

 

 

Ah, the use of the phrase "not you specifically" would appear to include me with all the "conspirators", un-named or not. Or do I misread your intended meaning? Never mind, recent events mean that I have really got to cease designing stuff anyway.

 

 

[grahame]

As something a little different, I've been having a little play with a free-to-download bit of software called Gimp to correct converging and diverging verticals for some of my older snaps. With my current Nikon camera you can do it in the camera but my little snap-gun doesn't have that feature. Here's one of the first efforts - the verticals are not perfectly upright as you do the correction by eye and lose a bit of the image, but a big improvement over the original and probably acceptable:

 

  

[Bucoops]

3 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

 

Ah, the use of the phrase "not you specifically" would appear to include me with all the "conspirators", un-named or not. Or do I misread your intended meaning? Never mind, recent events mean that I have really got to cease designing stuff anyway.

 

 

 

I read it as the originator of such kits as ended up in the Falcon Brass range... Some of those seem a little notorious. A certain V2 as well...

[john new]

5 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

 

Ah, the use of the phrase "not you specifically" would appear to include me with all the "conspirators", un-named or not. Or do I misread your intended meaning? Never mind, recent events mean that I have really got to cease designing stuff anyway.

 

 

I have no idea who designed the brass kit I struggled with personally, nor those kits other builders were also adversely commenting on concurrent with my own problems a few years back, but together it put me off buying more brass kits. I have recently decided to have another go as I can solder BUT many aspects of them do deter newbies from attempting them.

 

A big help, as an example, would be pre assembled valve gear as what I've seen on YouTube etc., regarding putting a set together, is again a deterrent to making a start. What we have lost over time is the middle ground (the body kit on to a modified r-t-r chassis kit*) between r-t- r and the expert level of make everything including all the chassis components and a gearbox. 
 

*3d printing just might be starting to bring this back.
 

Edited January 20, 2022 by john new
Clarity

[Jol Wilkinson]

53 minutes ago, john new said:

I have no idea who designed the brass kit I struggled with personally, nor those kits other builders were also adversely commenting on concurrent with my own problems a few years back, but together it put me off buying more brass kits. I have recently decided to have another go as I can solder BUT many aspects of them do deter newbies from attempting them.

 

A big help, as an example, would be pre assembled valve gear as what I've seen on YouTube etc., regarding putting a set together, is again a deterrent to making a start. What we have lost over time is the middle ground (the body kit on to a modified r-t-r chassis kit*) between r-t- r and the expert level of make everything including all the chassis components and a gearbox. 
 

*3d printing just might be starting to bring this back.
 

 

I usually put my name somewhere on the etch, as well as that of the kit producer, for copyright reasons. With one exception, the loco kits I designed were inside cylinder or outside cylinder with internal valve gear. The one exception has Joy valve gear, but that can be built as not or partially working if required. As the photo shows, the valve gear is partly hidden by the valance. Supplying that ready built would put the cost of the kit up considerably.

 

The bodyline kits as supplied by Wills/SEF and others were sometimes of rather poor quality and sometimes compromised to fit a particular RTR chassis, which often weren't that good either. My first ever "kit" loco was one such with which I failed miserably (mind you, I was a teenager at the time). However, times have changed and a good quality 3D based kit on a "modern" chassis might be one route forward. However, with the increasing range of excellent RTR models available and the worsening confidence/competence of many in this hobby to assemble, paint and transfer line anything, would it attract enough interest to make it viable.

 

 

[Hollar]

My Hornby Clan has finally scrambled through the Royal Mail, and .  very nice it is too. But I have a couple of questions. 

 

Firstly, the footplate and tender top are both green, and the colour photos look like this should be black; which is right?  Of course neither would stay green for any length of time, but I would like to know.

 

Secondly, I remember reading a  piece in one of the prototype mags that BR figured out why the Clans were such indifferent steamers, but didn't go ahead with the rebuild because of the modernisation plan.  I've searched my own references and can't find it.  Does this ring a bell with anyone, and do you have the citation?  And in particular would the modifications have been visible - a 9F double chimney, for instance?

 

Tony

[cctransuk]

15 minutes ago, Hollar said:

My Hornby Clan has finally scrambled through the Royal Mail, and .  very nice it is too. But I have a couple of questions. 

 

Firstly, the footplate and tender top are both green, and the colour photos look like this should be black; which is right?  Of course neither would stay green for any length of time ........

 

Tony,

 

You must have missed the lengthy debate in the Clan thread !!!

 

There are those convinced that the model is authentic, but most seem - at best - sceptical; (and I am amongst them).

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, john new said:

I have no idea who designed the brass kit I struggled with personally, nor those kits other builders were also adversely commenting on concurrent with my own problems a few years back, but together it put me off buying more brass kits. I have recently decided to have another go as I can solder BUT many aspects of them do deter newbies from attempting them.

 

A big help, as an example, would be pre assembled valve gear as what I've seen on YouTube etc., regarding putting a set together, is again a deterrent to making a start. What we have lost over time is the middle ground (the body kit on to a modified r-t-r chassis kit*) between r-t- r and the expert level of make everything including all the chassis components and a gearbox. 
 

*3d printing just might be starting to bring this back.
 

Good evening John,

 

DJH supplied made-up valve gear for its A2/2 and A2/3 kits (though how many sell now is open to question). 

 

I've been told by many that one of the reasons the GWR is popular in model form is because none of its locos (apart from railmotors and the 15XXs) has 'visible' valve gear, even its largest types. Whether this is true, I don't know, but they're certainly easier.

 

I've not watched any YouTube presentations on making valve gear, so cannot comment. I did show how to make it in the Right Track series of DVDs. 

 

There's no doubt, it can be awkward. I must have made in excess of 250 sets, and I still cock-up. I don't think I've ever made a set which works perfectly first time; there's always some tweaking necessary. All I can recommend is to have a go. I've got some spare sets here if you wish to practise on them (old Jamieson stampings, that kind of thing). I can hand them over to you at the York Show if you like.

 

Speaking of which, I've got an article to coincide in BRM.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robmcg]

On 20/01/2022 at 06:40, Tony Wright said:

Two manifestations of Hornby's latest rebuilt W1s have just arrived for photography/review; one in LNER blue and one in BR green.

 

More later...................

 

By some curious distortion of container traffic patterns, we in the antipodes received these models before UK buyers.

 

I look forward to your photos Tony, my blue rebuilt 10000 and early BR 60700 are both lovely, my photos are in the relevant Hornby thread but here are a couple..  edited cylinder drains on 10000.

 

 

and below, obviously edited background, but the engine has been subjected only to brightness and contrast correction.

 

 

I believe 60700 had the long cylinder drains until 4/53   might be wrong, and we won't talk about guard irons..       both models are superb.

 

The photo of 60700 was by my brother,  he was quicker off the mark in purchasing one than I was. I added the scenery. 

 

Then I bought one...

 

 

Not much chance of re-numbering one of these.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by robmcg
typos, addition.

[jimwal]

2 hours ago, robmcg said:

By some curious distortion of container traffic patterns, we in the antipodes received these models before UK buyers.

 

Being closer to China than the UK?

[robmcg]

34 minutes ago, jimwal said:

 

Being closer to China than the UK?

 

Also log-jams of containers from China to Europe, and all the complexities of container shipping through Rotterdam, and other issues.

Australisia also has very inconsistent delivery of goods from China.

[DougN]

4 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

By some curious distortion of container traffic patterns, we in the antipodes received these models before UK buyers.

 

I look forward to your photos Tony, my blue rebuilt 10000 and early BR 60700 are both lovely, my photos are in the relevant Hornby thread but here are a couple..  edited cylinder drains on 10000.

 

 

and below, obviously edited background, but the engine has been subjected only to brightness and contrast correction.

 

 

I believe 60700 had the long cylinder drains until 4/53   might be wrong, and we won't talk about guard irons..       both models are superb.

 

The photo of 60700 was by my brother,  he was quicker off the mark in purchasing one than I was. I added the scenery. 

 

Then I bought one...

 

 

Not much chance of re-numbering one of these.

 

 

This is great news Rob, 

 

I will keep a look out to see if they make it over the ditch in the short term! 

 

I do find the shipping curious at times as Australia and New Zealand can both receive things faster than the UK.... it usually takes longer going up hill to us! 

 

[richard i]

6 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Also log-jams of containers from China to Europe, and all the complexities of container shipping through Rotterdam, and other issues.

Australisia also has very inconsistent delivery of goods from China.

No suez to be blocked. No straights of malacca to negotiate. 
And now for Britain, NZ does not have containers taken off big ships and on to smaller ones as UK does as shipping firms do not want to risk a big ship delayed at UK port . Eg Rotterdam to felixstowe . This was not the case three years ago. Big ships used to feel confident of getting a berth on time in felixstowe and therefore not delayed previously. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by richard i

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

By some curious distortion of container traffic patterns, we in the antipodes received these models before UK buyers.

 

I look forward to your photos Tony, my blue rebuilt 10000 and early BR 60700 are both lovely, my photos are in the relevant Hornby thread but here are a couple..  edited cylinder drains on 10000.

 

 

and below, obviously edited background, but the engine has been subjected only to brightness and contrast correction.

 

 

I believe 60700 had the long cylinder drains until 4/53   might be wrong, and we won't talk about guard irons..       both models are superb.

 

The photo of 60700 was by my brother,  he was quicker off the mark in purchasing one than I was. I added the scenery. 

 

Then I bought one...

 

 

Not much chance of re-numbering one of these.

 

 

Thanks Rob,

 

Excellent imagery. 

 

I'm just taking the pair out of their boxes for photography later. At first glance, they look superb models. At second glance, too. The attention to detail seems first class - the bulge at the base of the cylinder casings (different from the A4s because of the W1's larger cylinders), the early manifestation of the corridor tender (with the extended fairings, only right for the first year of the rebuilt loco's life) and the incorrect style of '6' on the BR version's front numberplate. Yes, the cylinder drain cocks were cut back from 1952/'53, and the frame-mounted guard irons taken off (Hornby only fits them to the bogie). Thank goodness the A2/2 and A2/3 type bogie wheels have been used - far superior to the previous A3 and A4 ones, which are really poor representations. I think the valve gear has been beefed-up as well, though not quite as convincingly as on the Thompson pair. 

 

That leaves us now with only three LNER/ER RA9 types not available RTR. The Raven A2? Unlikely. The rebuilt GREAT NORTHERN? Who knows? The Thompson A2/1s? Probably not, but what do I know? Who'd have thought that such one-offs as KEROSENE CASTLE, the LEADER (only one which was ever steamed), GT3, the Fell and even 71000, not to mention the singular diesels, would ever be available off-the-shelf? I'm glad I 'pulled up the drawbridge' years ago!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

P. S. Speaking of post (of all kinds). Just over a week ago, I sent off four articles (two letters, two packets) First Class (which in Britain should mean next-day delivery). One packet of locos arrived next day! One letter arrived on Tuesday, another on Wednesday and the second parcel is probably still on its way to N. Wales. It's Covid's fault, I'm told. My latest copy of the Railway Modeller has just arrived!

Edited January 21, 2022 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Hollar]

13 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Tony,

 

You must have missed the lengthy debate in the Clan thread !!!

 

There are those convinced that the model is authentic, but most seem - at best - sceptical; (and I am amongst them).

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I've worked my way halfway through the Clan thread, and among other things learned that not all Forums (sorry, Tony, fora) have the gentle cheerfulness of this one. 

As soon as I opened the box I was aware that the green was ridiculously wrong; possibly Hornby are secretly developing a Highland Railway loco and the factory muddled the paint colours.  As you will see from the photos I'm not one to shy away from a bit of repainting and weathering. (You may recognise the cabside  numbers, bu the way.) I've found a few thin layers of Vallejo Smoke takes the edge of dodgy brunswick greens and tames RTR lining, and will try that before going Putin with a complete strip and repaint. 

 

Tony

[Tony Wright]

I've just started photographing/testing/assessing both of Hornby's latest rebuilt W1..........

 

 

 

Every now and then, along comes a model (or, in this case, models) with that WOW factor! This is one of those occasions.

 

They really are superb (and, yes, I know about the floating flanges wheels of the Cartazzi/Bissel truck), and both run brilliantly.

 

Is the BR green one better than the South Eastern Finecast one I built all those years ago?

 

 

I think one would have to be myopic to not answer 'yes', even though this one has Ian Rathbone's beautifully-natural painting. 

 

My full reviews will feature in BRM before long.

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I've just started photographing/testing/assessing both of Hornby's latest rebuilt W1..........

 

 

 

Every now and then, along comes a model (or, in this case, models) with that WOW factor! This is one of those occasions.

 

They really are superb (and, yes, I know about the floating flanges wheels of the Cartazzi/Bissel truck), and both run brilliantly.

 

Is the BR green one better than the South Eastern Finecast one I built all those years ago?

 

 

I think one would have to be myopic to not answer 'yes', even though this one has Ian Rathbone's beautifully-natural painting. 

 

My full reviews will feature in BRM before long.

Well, they look different. The skirt looks lower on the SEF model and the firebox details near the cab are in different positions. The cab side profile is also different or at least appears so. Which is correct a poor pre-group modeller can't say, but I am sure someone better informed will be able to provide some a more informed view.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Jol Wilkinson
Reason for edit. NZ Sauvignon Blanc

[Tony Wright]

11 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Well, they look different. The skirt looks lower on the SEF model and the firebox details near the cab are in different positions. The cab side profile is also different or at least appears so. Which is correct a poor pre-group modeller can't say, but I am sure someone better informed will be able to provide some a more informed view.

Thanks Jol,

 

I think it's more likely, given the age difference in the two products, that the Hornby W1 is more-accurate, particularly at the front end.

 

I suppose in consolation, all I'd say is that I made mine, I've had it since the end of the last century, it's much more personal, is unique and it'll pull more. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.