Wright writes.....

[Dunsignalling]

2 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Did you first have to cut clearnace into the interior of the Brit rear truck casting to allow the wheels in at all, or have Hornby corrected that? (My two are first releases from 2006.) Mine will manage down to 30" centreline radius.

Hornby's A3 and A4 pacific mechanism has (or possibly had as mine are all as released in 2004/5 and Hornby do tend to tinker) a very useful feature, the moulded Cartazzi truck frames are made in a flexible plastic. Once the crude 'post' for the wheelset has been reduced in width to allow sufficent sideplay for the loco to negotiate something a little under 36" radius without the frames fittedm, the frame moulding can be split at the rear and once excavated internally by removal of the moulded ribs, the wheelset will nudge and thus flex the inside frame on a curve less than 36" radius. No idea what the final limit on minmum centreline radius might be, 36" is the safe choice.

 

The W1 and P2 are definitely 36" minmum radius without more hacking than I am confident undertaking.

 

Just a change of wheelsets on the one I did, and I hadn't tried it round 30" curves.

 

I can't revisit it  unfortunately,  as the pal I did it for is no longer with us and the loco has been moved on.

 

I reckon the West Countries might do 30" so long as the curve was laid without any dog-legs

 

[Northmoor]

It's often been discussed on here, the low prices achieved for kit-built locos and unbuilt kits.  Today I was following the Vectis Model Trains auction (and working at the same time, honest, if my boss is reading this) which comprised both some specific collections - someone had clearly amassed about half the diesels in a late 1980s Lima catalogue - but there were quite a few lots consisting of pairs of unbuilt or part-built loco kits. 

 

The limited descriptions didn't make it clear if motor/gearboxes were included and in only some cases were wheels obviously present, but lots of these kits were selling for little over £20 each.  One lot of a completed and painted Hawksworth Pannier, a built but unpainted SR Terrier and a not-started SR P Class, I think sold for £40 (+ fees + postage).  People pay more than that for Hornby starter train set locos.

 

As well as a couple of 1980s Mainline locos bought out of nostalgia, I did win a Keyser Princess Coronation and Q-kits "Kestrel" for £35; the former will probably be sold on and the latter will be added to the project backlog of Diesel Prototypes: LMS 10000, Deltic and Falcon.  I have probably acquired the components for all these for about £100, combined.

[maico]

3 hours ago, Northmoor said:

It's often been discussed on here, the low prices achieved for kit-built locos and unbuilt kits.  Today I was following the Vectis Model Trains auction (and working at the same time, honest, if my boss is reading this) which comprised both some specific collections - someone had clearly amassed about half the diesels in a late 1980s Lima catalogue - but there were quite a few lots consisting of pairs of unbuilt or part-built loco kits. 

 

The limited descriptions didn't make it clear if motor/gearboxes were included and in only some cases were wheels obviously present, but lots of these kits were selling for little over £20 each.  One lot of a completed and painted Hawksworth Pannier, a built but unpainted SR Terrier and a not-started SR P Class, I think sold for £40 (+ fees + postage).  People pay more than that for Hornby starter train set locos.

 

As well as a couple of 1980s Mainline locos bought out of nostalgia, I did win a Keyser Princess Coronation and Q-kits "Kestrel" for £35; the former will probably be sold on and the latter will be added to the project backlog of Diesel Prototypes: LMS 10000, Deltic and Falcon.  I have probably acquired the components for all these for about £100, combined.

 

Museum quality brass RTR goes for big money on the used market. If you need to ask the price you can't afford it!

 

German 1:87 Meta-Microkit photographed by Fitz Osterthun

 

 

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by maico

[gr.king]

Well I've seen Vauclain/Baldwin locos (mostly compounds) with four outside cylinders, in "stacked" pairs with huge common crossheads, but nothing quite like those! Where the upper jackshafts on the real things linked up in some way to drive those small-looking coupled wheels too.  Factor of adhesion not a worry?

[cctransuk]

13 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Well I've seen Vauclain/Baldwin locos (mostly compounds) with four outside cylinders, in "stacked" pairs with huge common crossheads, but nothing quite like those! Where the upper jackshafts on the real things linked up in some way to drive those small-looking coupled wheels too.  Factor of adhesion not a worry?

 

The lower one of the two would appear to be a rack loco, judging by the proximity of the pinions to railhead level - presumably the jackshafts drove the pinions.

 

CJI.

[96701]

2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

The lower one of the two would appear to be a rack loco, judging by the proximity of the pinions to railhead level - presumably the jackshafts drove the pinions.

 

CJI.

Is that just your opinion? See what I did there?

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, 96701 said:

See what I did there?

 

Unfortunately, yes! 🥴

 

CJI.

[31A]

47 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Well I've seen Vauclain/Baldwin locos (mostly compounds) with four outside cylinders, in "stacked" pairs with huge common crossheads, but nothing quite like those! Where the upper jackshafts on the real things linked up in some way to drive those small-looking coupled wheels too.  Factor of adhesion not a worry?

 

Both Rack and Adhesion locos I think - pinions can be seen between the second and third axles of 97 501.

[Michael Edge]

Both rack and adhesion, possibly like the Nilgiri one (see nicktoix on here) the upper rack drive runs in the opposite direction to the wheel drive.

[maico]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

Both Rack and Adhesion locos I think - pinions can be seen between the second and third axles of 97 501.

 

More on the Erzbergbahn mountain railway here

 

https://manager.ladormilona.com/ebay/ad/view/id/s2-h0-brass-micrometakit-95700h-zahnardlokomotive-br-1973-29603-die-bboe-ovp

[30368]

22 minutes ago, maico said:

More on the Erzbergbahn mountain railway here

 

What a truely amazing piece of machinery - both prototype and the model. Fabulous, thanks for sharing with us Maico.

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

 

PS Maico - after the off road German motor cycle maker? Sorry if I have the wrong end of the stick.

[chris45lsw]

On 23/04/2024 at 10:10, St Enodoc said:

No, but knowing that the C77 has a fictitious number might be...

Even sadder W1168W was actually a K34 'Toplight' BG, rebuilt former a WW1 Ambulance Car (withdrawn in 1962).

 

Chris KT

[Chuffer Davies]

17 hours ago, maico said:

 

Museum quality brass RTR goes for big money on the used market. If you need to ask the price you can't afford it!

 

German 1:87 Meta-Microkit photographed by Fitz Osterthun

 

 

 

 

This just demonstrates to me how much further our British RTR products could still go .  If they were built to this kind of standard I’d certainly not bother kit building but as it is I’ll not give up just yet.

[30368]

25 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

This just demonstrates to me how much further our British RTR products could still go .  If they were built to this kind of standard I’d certainly not bother kit building but as it is I’ll not give up just yet.

 

Yes indeed Mr Davies,really fine quality. It seems to me that UK RTR, whilst very good and a huge improvement on 10-20 years ago still look a little toy like. With some weathering on these superb models there is no suggestion of this toy like quality. Whilst I still have a lot to learn, like you, I will continue to build locos from kits and from scratch.

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

[Bernard Lamb]

30 minutes ago, Chuffer Davies said:

This just demonstrates to me how much further our British RTR products could still go .  If they were built to this kind of standard I’d certainly not bother kit building but as it is I’ll not give up just yet.

But look at the prices.

I used to read CM in March/April, I think it was, for the new releases.

Weinert was pushing things for me, but these are a different ball game.

Bernard

[Chuffer Davies]

1 minute ago, Bernard Lamb said:

But look at the prices.

I used to read CM in March/April, I think it was, for the new releases.

Weinert was pushing things for me, but these are a different ball game.

Bernard

Hi Bernard, whilst I agree that the price of such superb RTR models is high. I would however point out that, as has been said many times on WW, the cost of building a kit loco is far higher than the current price of an equivalent British RTR model, especially if you get your models professionally painted as I do.  
The relative cost differential for me would not be that great and when you need around 30 locos for a project as I currently do, any help I could get from the RTR manufacturers would be most welcome if the quality was right.

[Captain Kernow]

2 hours ago, 30368 said:

 

Yes indeed Mr Davies,really fine quality.

And no horrible big Continental HO flanges in sight! Lovely models.

[maico]

8 hours ago, 30368 said:

 

 

 

PS Maico - after the off road German motor cycle maker? 

 

That's right. I had one back in the 80s when they were winning world championships before going bust!

 

Restored ones like this fetch good money.

[Dave John]

Those Micro Metakit models really are impressive. I did a bit of research, they were produced in small batches so could be described as rtr though they were hand crafted with prices to match. The level of craftsmanship does justify the price but even so sit down before clicking the link;

 

https://iehobbies.com/collections/micro-metakit

 

 

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

3 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Hi Bernard, whilst I agree that the price of such superb RTR models is high. I would however point out that, as has been said many times on WW, the cost of building a kit loco is far higher than the current price of an equivalent British RTR model, especially if you get your models professionally painted as I do.  
The relative cost differential for me would not be that great and when you need around 30 locos for a project as I currently do, any help I could get from the RTR manufacturers would be most welcome if the quality was right.

The problem is Chuffer, that the market in Germany and a few other places, is so much larger than in the UK. There is a niche for this type of model. I suppose that the nearest was DJH. But in that range there are good and bad, with even the better models being nowhere near the best of continental models. Coupled with the reluctance of UK punters to spend serious money, availability of top quality RTR is not going to change.

The nearest I have seen was the FIA LMS diesels. However they don't go round corners, without a full wheel change, so the experiment was never repeated. Mine cost about £370, so going by standard RTR prices today it now  seems a reasonable purchase. They were much more when launched, but a lot were sold off cheaply.

Bernard

[maico]

Here's a more mainstream Micro-Metakit the BR03 in photographic grey

 

 

[Northmoor]

46 minutes ago, Dave John said:

Those Micro Metakit models really are impressive. I did a bit of research, they were produced in small batches so could be described as rtr though they were hand crafted with prices to match. The level of craftsmanship does justify the price but even so sit down before clicking the link;

 

https://iehobbies.com/collections/micro-metakit

 

<cough>

If I had that kind of money spare, I'd probably buy a share in the real thing.

[Tony Wright]

Little Bytham gets used a lot by manufacturers these days............

 

 

 

Peterborough North as well...

[maico]

Other brass RTR makes like used Swiss Lematec can be picked up much cheaper than Metakit.

 

None of them can do what my rare 2001 model year German made Trix K.W.st.E K1 class 2-10-0 can: go around R1 curves from a dead crawl to medium speeds !!

Note the large axle articulation, 4 axles directly gear driven and all metal construction of boiler, cab and tender.

The close coupling tender uses a metal kinematic system. 

The front bogie is sprung and uses a milled metal slot and pin.

It has a large German made Faulhabor coreless motor.

8 pin decoder in the tender.

Removable plug in directional LED lamps from 23 years ago.

1 screw body removal

 

 

Trix later made a green and an all black version of this but dropped the expensive gear drive train.

 

Edited 40 minutes ago by maico