Wright writes.....

[Enterprisingwestern]

DCC is only two wires, what could possibly go wrong?

 

 

Mike.

[St Enodoc]

Looking forward to it, John,

 

My talks have been sorted out.

 

They comprise (on the Friday) Building Locos the Wright Way (what a cheesy play on words - my idea!), then, on the Saturday Influential Layouts (influential to me) and The Building of Little Bytham. 

 

The talks will (I hope) be comprised of practical sessions, photographic presentations and Q&As. 

 

I wonder whether DCC will get a mention?

 

On applying for my visa, I was asked if I had any criminal convictions. I wonder why? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Excellent Tony. The delegates will enjoy all three without a doubt.

 

With regard to your question, it is said that when Ian Botham was asked the same he replied that he didn't know he still needed any.

[St Enodoc]

Hi Tony

 

Will these presentations be available to your audience here in Blighty (if not already) after your Antipodean adventure ?

 

Regards

 

Peter

We will discuss with Tony whether they can be released to non-delegates - if so, that will probably be via the BRMA website www.brma.org.au.

 

Of course, the best way to get the full experience is to come to our Convention as a delegate - details on the same website (and you don't have to be a member)!

[Bucoops]

 

On applying for my visa, I was asked if I had any criminal convictions. I wonder why? 

 

 

Perhaps it is still a pre-requisite of entry?

[Clive Mortimore]

DCC is only two wires, what could possibly go wrong?

 

 

Mike.

Wot a pillock that could have killed him. 

 

When I worked on a cardiac ward we use to do cardioversion using a defibrillator to rectify someones abnormal heartbeat. There was always the risk that the shock could stop the heart not make it beat better, hence a full medical team on hand.

 

Patients who had major electric shocks would normally end up on the burns unit, for the first couple of days they were monitored as if they had a heart attack. 

 

I wounder if his mate would have posted the video of him dying?

[Clive Mortimore]

Perhaps it is still a pre-requisite of entry?

Being a botany bay con "first fleeter" descendant is a badge of honour so I am told.

[Jamiel]

I hope it is OK to ask for some advice here as this thread is to a large extent what inspired me to build my first brass loco kit, together with old friends from the Leeds MRS.

Gearbox trouble I suspect.

 

I think part of my problem is that I got ahead of myself. I put the main connecting rods on to the wheels before running them from the motor by electrical power. All run freely by hand, and initially the motor ran the wheels OK, but then stopped. I should have paid more attention to Tony’s DVD!

 

It looks as though the worm cog/drive from the motor was only partially connecting with the top cog and has now jumped free. If you look at the photos you can see where it is shiny and is just connecting. For ease of view I have tipped the gearbox flat. I have taken the top screw fixing the motor in palce before taking the photos, I was trying to see if I could turn it the other way up to get a better purchase from the worn cog. That is the dark hole you can see at the top of the motor mount.

 

 

This is how it will be mounted when the body has been added.

 

What I suspect I will have to do is unsolder the connecting rods and probably build a new gearbox. I suspect I will need to buy some spare crank pins as well, but it is all part of the learning process.

 

The question I have is would people recommend a different gearbox to the Comet one for this loco? I did file back some of the outer box of the gearbox as it was very clearly visible, but I don’t think that has compromised the running of the gearbox itself.

 

Is there a gearbox with a centrally mounted top cog, rather than the side one of the Comet?

 

It is quite possible that the wheels may run well pushed by hand, but have just enough resistance when being run by the motor to have an effect on the gear box.

 

One other thing I have noticed is that the Mashima motor has some end to end play on the drive shaft which is never a good thing when running a worm cog as it can push back and lock.

 

The loco will be DCC run, I will put a chip in the smokebox. I doubt that will make any difference to the practicalities of getting the motor driving the wheels.

 

I did have to take break from building this model due to a road accident (a car knocked me off my bicycle) and wasn’t comfortable using a soldering iron until my shoulder healed, so I am picking up from my last worked on this six months ago.

 

Here are a couple of photos of the body and tender in place to show how the rest of the modelling has gone. I know it is good idea to start with an 0-6-0 loco, but as I had built pony trucks before, I felt the Black 5 was just an 0-6-0 plus a pony truck which I had enough experience with already.

EDIT. I have unscrewed the connecting rods and have got the centre wheels and gearbox out. The basic problem is that the top cog and worm cog are not close enogh. The Comet box does not have any way I can see of adjusting the closeness of the motor mount. A wider top cog would possibly work. A new gearbox I suspect is the answer, but would people recomend one different to the Comet one?

 

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Jamie

Edited July 14, 2018 by Jamiel

[Black Marlin]

Work on the Oykel Viaduct is nearly complete. The stone viaduct sections are Faller kits, as are the extended piers for them; the central section is made of laser-cut MDF.  Now I just need to build the baseboard on which to install it...

(As per Tony's insistence in such matters, I made very sure that the locomotive featured was crewed, coaled and carried the correct headcode for a train composed of XP-rated stock!)





Regards,
Gavin

[Headstock]

I hope it is OK to ask for some advice here as this thread is to a large extent what inspired me to build my first brass loco kit, together with old friends from the Leeds MRS.

 

Gearbox trouble I suspect.

 

I think part of my problem is that I got ahead of myself. I put the main connecting rods on to the wheels before running them from the motor by electrical power. All run freely by hand, and initially the motor ran the wheels OK, but then stopped. I should have paid more attention to Tony’s DVD!

 

It looks as though the worm cog/drive from the motor was only partially connecting with the top cog and has now jumped free. If you look at the photos you can see where it is shiny and is just connecting. For ease of view I have tipped the gearbox flat. I have taken the top screw fixing the motor in palce before taking the photos, I was trying to see if I could turn it the other way up to get a better purchase from the worn cog. That is the dark hole you can see at the top of the motor mount.

 

 

 

 

This is how it will be mounted when the body has been added.

 

 

What I suspect I will have to do is unsolder the connecting rods and probably build a new gearbox. I suspect I will need to buy some spare crank pins as well, but it is all part of the learning process.

 

The question I have is would people recommend a different gearbox to the Comet one for this loco? I did file back some of the outer box of the gearbox as it was very clearly visible, but I don’t think that has compromised the running of the gearbox itself.

 

Is there a gearbox with a centrally mounted top cog, rather than the side one of the Comet?

 

It is quite possible that the wheels may run well pushed by hand, but have just enough resistance when being run by the motor to have an effect on the gear box.

 

One other thing I have noticed is that the Mashima motor has some end to end play on the drive shaft which is never a good thing when running a worm cog as it can push back and lock.

 

The loco will be DCC run, I will put a chip in the smokebox. I doubt that will make any difference to the practicalities of getting the motor driving the wheels.

 

I did have to take break from building this model due to a road accident (a car knocked me off my bicycle) and wasn’t comfortable using a soldering iron until my shoulder healed, so I am picking up from my last worked on this six months ago.

 

Here are a couple of photos of the body and tender in place to show how the rest of the modelling has gone. I know it is good idea to start with an 0-6-0 loco, but as I had built pony trucks before, I felt the Black 5 was just an 0-6-0 plus a pony truck which I had enough experience with already.

 

 

Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

Jamie

 

Looks like your worm and gear are way out of alignment, the shiny bit may indicate that the worm is cutting into the gear. If that is a multi-box, then you have to get them dead square or they are hopeless. I would also advise a large selection of cleaning products, perhaps even a trip to the local car wash. I think that a new gearbox is probably required but make sure it's running smoothly before it goes anywhere near the locomotive, that big worm will eat brass gears for breakfast.

[Headstock]

Work on the Oykel Viaduct is nearly complete. The stone viaduct sections are Faller kits, as are the extended piers for them; the central section is made of laser-cut MDF.  Now I just need to build the baseboard on which to install it...

 

(As per Tony's insistence in such matters, I made very sure that the locomotive featured was crewed, coaled and carried the correct headcode for a train composed of XP-rated stock!)

 

IMG_3876.JPG

 

IMG_3874.JPG

 

Regards,

Gavin

 

Afternoon Gavin,

 

the tender on your locomotive looks slightly misaligned, does the span of the bridge connect with the arched section correctly?

[micklner]

The Main Gear appears to be the wrong way around. No idea if it can be saved from the photos.

 

High Level Models do a large selection of excellent gearboxes.

Edited July 14, 2018 by micklner

[Jamiel]

Thank you for the replies.

Headstock. I agree but unfortunately the two cogs supplied are half the width of the gear box, with the almost motor centrally mounted. I did err on the worm drive being to over to the side of the cog teeth, but it seems that is not enough. If I swap it the other way, there is less more overlap of the teeth.



Micklener: Although the two cogs can be set to mirror left to right, as shown above, they only fit into the gear box small at the top and large at the bottom.



I think you are both right that a new gearbox is required. I could get another Comet one, but suspect I may have the same issue. I wider worm cog would help, but if there is a gearbox that has a top cog that aligns better with the worm drive then that would be ideal.

I have heard good things about High Level gearboxes, if one of those would fit, then would people here recommend one of those?

I am very grateful for the help.

Jamie

Edited July 14, 2018 by Jamiel

[Headstock]

Ah, it's a Comet box, I've never used one myself. There are so many options with the High level boxes that you will be able to get something to fit.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Headstock

[micklner]

When I said main Gear, I should have said the top Gear directly under the worm.

 

 

It looks like in the photo that there would be more area of teeth under the worm , if it is fitted the other way around. Are there no instructions.

[Black Marlin]

Afternoon Gavin,

 

the tender on your locomotive looks slightly misaligned, does the span of the bridge connect with the arched section correctly?

 

The tender and loco are correctly aligned. There is a slight bow in the central section of the bridge, which I have been unable to correct. Given that the difference is ~1mm, I can live with it. 

 

Regards,

Gavin

[Jamiel]

When I said main Gear, I should have said the top Gear directly under the worm.

 

 

It looks like in the photo that there would be more area of teeth under the worm , if it is fitted the other way around. Are there no instructions.

That has the most overlap. Being a first time builder of a gearbox I followed the instructions very closely.

 

I will have a look at High Level gearboxes.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Jamie

Edited July 14, 2018 by Jamiel

[Fat Controller]

Being a botany bay con "first fleeter" descendant is a badge of honour so I am told.

Waving his hands about and going 'No chains on me, mate' didn't do a friend of mine any favours when he arrived in Australia.

[KalKat]

..................... how about the descendants of the warders? .........................

 

 

 

Emma

[Fat Controller]

..................... how about the descendants of the warders? .........................

 

 

 

Emma

They came back; in my Uncle Bert's case to West Bromwich..

[Bucoops]

Waving his hands about and going 'No chains on me, mate' didn't do a friend of mine any favours when he arrived in Australia.

 

I thought the Aussies had a sense of humour

 

To be fair, transportation was not the UKs finest hour.

[Bucoops]

Thank you for the replies.

 

Headstock. I agree but unfortunately the two cogs supplied are half the width of the gear box, with the almost motor centrally mounted. I did err on the worm drive being to over to the side of the cog teeth, but it seems that is not enough. If I swap it the other way, there is less more overlap of the teeth.

 

 

Micklener: Although the two cogs can be set to mirror left to right, as shown above, they only fit into the gear box small at the top and large at the bottom.

 

 

I think you are both right that a new gearbox is required. I could get another Comet one, but suspect I may have the same issue. I wider worm cog would help, but if there is a gearbox that has a top cog that aligns better with the worm drive then that would be ideal.

 

I have heard good things about High Level gearboxes, if one of those would fit, then would people here recommend one of those?

 

I am very grateful for the help.

 

Jamie

 

Until a few months back I had never built a gearbox - I've now built 3 - all High Level ones. They are great and really easy to build. I don't have an opinion on Comet ones, or anyone else's as I've never built one.

[sp1]

I thought the Aussies had a sense of humour

 

To be fair, transportation was not the UKs finest hour.

For those that were transported it was probably better than the alternative, which entailed having your neck stretched....

[gr.king]

Thank you for the replies.

 

Headstock. I agree but unfortunately the two cogs supplied are half the width of the gear box, with the almost motor centrally mounted. I did err on the worm drive being to over to the side of the cog teeth, but it seems that is not enough. If I swap it the other way, there is less more overlap of the teeth.

 

 

Micklener: Although the two cogs can be set to mirror left to right, as shown above, they only fit into the gear box small at the top and large at the bottom.

 

 

I think you are both right that a new gearbox is required. I could get another Comet one, but suspect I may have the same issue. I wider worm cog would help, but if there is a gearbox that has a top cog that aligns better with the worm drive then that would be ideal.

 

I have heard good things about High Level gearboxes, if one of those would fit, then would people here recommend one of those?

 

I am very grateful for the help.

 

Jamie

 

As I can never bear to throw anything away un-necessarily, and don't like to see others doing so, I have a suggestion. That gear already chewed on one edge - it doesn't need to grip its shaft so tightly as to transmit significant amounts of torque to that shaft, unlike a final drive gear on an axle. The security offered by a grub screw is therefore not vital, you only need enough "hold" somewhere or other to prevent the gear shaft from winding itself out of the side of the gearbox. You could therefore consider placing that gear on a flat surface and filing down the boss that currently accepts to grub-screw to say two-thirds or maybe even half of its current width. It may be best not to file off the whole boss, as the longer the central hole for the shaft through that gear, the better the likelihood of it sitting square and true on its shaft. It might then be possible to slide the gear back onto its shaft, centralise the two items correctly beneath the worm gear, then put just a small drop of Loctite retainer of a mild grade (not superglue) into the empty grub-screw recess to stick the gear to the shaft, without sticking the shaft into its bearings. Give it time to set before you do any more.

 

You then ought to re-check that the teeth of the brass gear and steel worm are sufficiently deeply engaged - almost as deep as they can go but without dragging / binding / tightening up, at any point in the whole of the rotation of the brass gear. You should be able to tell by manual rotation of the motor shaft that the gears are free all the way through that rotation. The right setting is often created if you slacken the motor mounting screws and put a piece of smooth tissue paper (the kind used for packing, not the sort for wiping various things) into the gap between the gears as they are pressed back together by re-tightening the screws. If the paper is trapped solid and the motor is stiff to turn the gear mesh is too tight. If the paper is really loose then the mesh isn't tight enough. If you can wind the paper out of the gap by turning the motor shaft, against some drag but without feeling great tightness, there is hope that the gear mesh may be about right. You may have to put a very thin washer or packing piece between the motor body and the gearbox itself, at one of the screw-holes, in order to tilt the motor by the necessary small amount to obtain the correct meshing of the gears.

Edited July 15, 2018 by gr.king

[Headstock]

There's something not right with that gear, I would agree with Mick, surely that looks like the final drive and should be on the axle.

 

Edited to add

 

https://gwrbranchline.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/gearbox_assembled.gif

Edited July 14, 2018 by Headstock

[Jamiel]

There's something not right with that gear, I would agree with Mick, surely that looks like the final drive and should be on the axle.

 

Edited to add

 

https://gwrbranchline.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/gearbox_assembled.gif

 

 

There are two cogs below the worm cog, the small top one and then the larger one is over the centre axel of the loco. It cannot be seen in the photos. The axel would go through where I have laid the larger cog on the side.

 

Here is a quick diagram to show how the gears fit together. Reading further there are spacer washers that can be used to centre the top cog more, after filing as GR King suggests.

 

The axel drive cog is larger than the other one, but I couldn't get it the right size and aligned in the diagram.

 

 

I am also concerned about how much play there is in the Mashima motor, the central shaft has almost 1/2mm of play end to end which doesn’t work well with a worm drive in my past experience.

 

What is the gearbox you have shown by the way, as it looks exactly like what I want, and especially how the top cog is centrally mounted to the corm cog?

 

I will speak with High Level on Monday as I suspect from what I have read around RMweb, they are worth trying before other options. I will always have this as a spare gearbox then for future projects.

 

Jamie

Edited July 14, 2018 by Jamiel