RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted February 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 8, 2019 I've just finished watching the video, whilst sipping a nice scotch. I thoroughly enjoyed it and a donation will be on it's way shortly. Having seen those shots from under the M & GN bridge I'm glad that I included the rivet detail on the girders that go underneath. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollar Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 07/02/2019 at 19:38, MarshLane said: Can I ask ... on a etched brass or even plastic kit, how do you replicate the teak panelling? You say "mixing up a new batch of teak" is this is paint that resembles? Im considering a couple of topics for the forthcoming, so any insight, details or pointers would be gratefully appreciated. In terms of my skill level however, please do treat me like a common idiot!! I was going to say normal idiot, but every time I watch the House of Commons on the news I come more to the conclusion that there is no normal idiots around! Seriously tho, any help or insight really would be appreciated. Tony - sorry to hijack the thread- loved the video on Little Bytham, superb filming and modelling. Can I ask what camera you filmed it on? Really enjoyed the natural perspective of the camera being placed low down, as it would be in real life. Rich Some while ago (I'm afraid I don't have it to hand so can't give a proper citation) MRJ published a brilliant method for painting teak. I don't have any teak-finish coaches myself but was impressed and intrigued enough to try it out on the interiors of some coaches I was building. It is by no means a quick fix. It took a few dodgy results before began to get the hang of it. but after that I got a far, far better representation of varnished hardwood than I had managed before. I stopped thinking that it was a shame that railways took so long to appreciate the virtues of magnolia melamine surfaces and aluminium trim. New to me was the use of a "comb brush" to achieve the grain effect. This is like a normal, if thin flattie brush except that the business end is like a comb rather than a straight line. Since buying a couple (from Atlantis, I think) I've found them really useful for all sorts of subtle weathering and accenting. Tone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted February 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 8, 2019 Hello Tony, Having come across a photo posted on a site today of an overturned A2/1 60608 Duke of Rothesay, I was amazed to see it paired with a 6 wheel tender. Was this the only LNER Pacific with a 6 wheeled tender and was there a particular reason for it? After a quick internet search found this photo of it standing right way up, link posted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowanj Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 I enjoyed my trainspotting by video at Little Bytham and congratulate all concerned. Mo is an admirable engine driver. I was interested in the Blue Spot Fish, which has been seen before, with the two added vans behind the brake van. In the commentary, Tony suggested they could have been added at Arbroath. This may be possible, but I am sure I have read that it was permissable to add no more than two vans in this fashion to give the gaurd a mor stable and comfortable ride. Or am I dreaming? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 21 minutes ago, RThompson said: Hello Tony, Having come across a photo posted on a site today of an overturned A2/1 60608 Duke of Rothesay, I was amazed to see it paired with a 6 wheel tender. Was this the only LNER Pacific with a 6 wheeled tender and was there a particular reason for it? After a quick internet search found this photo of it standing right way up, link posted. Evening Robert, all of the Orphans originally had six wheel tenders, resources diverted from the last four V2 class locomotives. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted February 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2019 10 hours ago, RThompson said: Hello Tony, Having come across a photo posted on a site today of an overturned A2/1 60608 Duke of Rothesay, I was amazed to see it paired with a 6 wheel tender. Was this the only LNER Pacific with a 6 wheeled tender and was there a particular reason for it? After a quick internet search found this photo of it standing right way up, link posted. Slid on its side under a bridge if I recall correctly. Was it Bill Hoole driving? Someone once said he was back at work the next day, but there was some criticism of him later as the fireman had been swept off the footplate by a length of rail and killed, and that excessive speed may have been a contributing factor in the incident. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted February 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, Corbs said: Slid on its side under a bridge if I recall correctly. Was it Bill Hoole driving? Someone once said he was back at work the next day, but there was some criticism of him later as the fireman had been swept off the footplate by a length of rail and killed, and that excessive speed may have been a contributing factor in the incident. It was Bill Hoole and it's described in the biography "Bill Hoole Engineman Extraordinary" with the picture of it on it's side in the book. Jamie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted February 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2019 Lt. Col. Wilson had "no doubt that local track defects close in rear of the initial derailment, were the primary cause, and speed in excess of the authorised limit appears to have contributed." (One has to scroll right from an apparently blank page to see the scan of the report.) However, he also notes that "Driver Hoole was probably exceeding the authorised speed, but he was not assisted by an indicator on the footplate. Speed recorders which were removed during the war are being refitted to 4-6-2 type engines of the former London and North Eastern Railway, and future policy in this respect is under consideration by the Railway Executive." The account of Hoole's evidence is "interesting". One would have thought that if he was driving over the same route daily, he'd know when he was going at nearer 70 mph than 60 mph. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 17 hours ago, drmditch said: If you look on my modelling thread on the LNER Forum, 'Make do and Mend', for the last four or so pages, you will see illustrated accounts of using the Parkside kit and the Oxford model to produce 10' wheelbase versions, using information from Mr Banks' website. You will also see an ex-GN cattle wagon produced from the Parkside kit. I think there is a picture of that higher up in this thread as well. One experiment I have not yet done is to try to produce a 9' version with 'sag'. Might be difficult to make that convincing! Since I model the pre-1948 LNER, I need LMS cattle vans as well, and am just finishing another one from the Parkside kit for Dia 1661. This is quite useful for producing variants. I seem to have been having a 'cattle wagon' phase for the last year or so! Already well on the case. Still some detailing but getting there. 12 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmditch Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Very neat! May I ask if the the solebars and running gear are all replacements, and what you have used? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, drmditch said: Very neat! May I ask if the the solebars and running gear are all replacements, and what you have used? Yes and No. The brake gear is by ABS, the safety loop is a common staple thinned out and bent to shape. It retains the original solebars. The existing rivets and other detail have been sliced off and new rivets added (not added in the photo but have now) using Slaters 0.5mm rod thinned down to about 0.35 by rolling it along the top of a flat needle file. I used the W-irons from the kit and which were connected at 9 foot scale and chopped the connecting bar and simply inserted a piece of 4mm x 1mm strip cross wise to give the 10 foot wheelbase. The wagon springs are MJT. The ABS brake gear is a little chunky and overscale but I think it captures the LNER fitted brake arrangement quite well and has the added benefit of adding bit of weight. I hasten to add that this is a Diagram 122 - one of the lot built to 10ft wheelbase as opposed to the ones that were converted from 9 foot. As such there are a couple of anomalies/compromises that I am living with. It has some strapping where there should be none but by the time I realised, I was too far on to try to remedy it for this wagon. But it's not something that stares you in the face anyway. I've been working to a photo in a little Bradford Barton paper back called 'Pre-Nationalisation Freight Wagons on British Railways' by David Larkin showing one of these wagons which has just been condemned in 1963. But the research and publishing done by Steve Banks with regard to this and other wagons has been a great help and is commendable. Clem Edited February 9, 2019 by Clem 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 6 hours ago, Clem said: Already well on the case. Still some detailing but getting there. Evening Clem, a lovelly looking build, far better than the real bendy banana vans, sorry, cattle wagons. I've built one of the Parkside LMS cattle wagons, a nice little kit to build, nothing special about mine, just built as it came straight from the box. 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Headstock said: I've built one of the Parkside LMS cattle wagons, a nice little kit to build, nothing special about mine, just built as it came straight from the box. Hi Andrew. Many thanks for kind comment. The Parkside LMS cattle is next in line for me too. Probably same as you to start with - but as per kit. To be frank, I don't as yet feel confident enough in my knowledge about variations in the prototype to go further. I've also got a Coopercraft GW W1/W5 cattle wagon and a D&S GC 10T Cattle wagon out of the kit box for building soon too. I think it was the absolute disappointment with the lack of accuracy of the Hornby RTR model turned my attention to a requirement for some cattle wagons. (I've got a couple which have now been sidelined). I might get around to the cut and shut remedy at some time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I had a bash at the Parkside LMS cattle wagon when it came out - they did the early version, which with a bit of work can be made into a slightly later one, and with a lot more work can be a passable late version, which is the most useful for BR modellers, although the earlier ones did hang about in small numbers until quite late on. Here are a couple of shots - first the kit as it came, then the early one with an altered door and slightly different strapping. Then the later type. A WIP of the change . I covered it in a bit more depth in my workbench thread - page 5 here - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69241-ben-alders-workbench/&page= 7 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, Clem said: Hi Andrew. Many thanks for kind comment. The Parkside LMS cattle is next in line for me too. Probably same as you to start with - but as per kit. To be frank, I don't as yet feel confident enough in my knowledge about variations in the prototype to go further. I've also got a Coopercraft GW W1/W5 cattle wagon and a D&S GC 10T Cattle wagon out of the kit box for building soon too. I think it was the absolute disappointment with the lack of accuracy of the Hornby RTR model turned my attention to a requirement for some cattle wagons. (I've got a couple which have now been sidelined). I might get around to the cut and shut remedy at some time. Clem, I'm not that up on the Hornby cattle wagon, presumably not the recent SR example? I believe the latter is the only decent RTR cattle wagon on the market. All the rest seem to be very poor models, though I believe the Oxford rail wagon can be tweaked to remove the odd bits. There is also the venerable ratio Midland cattle wagon, they seem to have stuck around in large numbers. I don't suppose the Hornby SR cattle wagon was seen in massive numbers in the Nottingham area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, Headstock said: I'm not that up on the Hornby cattle wagon, presumably not the recent SR example? No, it's me - I think I got it wrong .. It was the Bachmann BR Cattle Wagon which looked very good until I realised it was 3 or 4 mm too long - noticeably so when you realise it. RTR models can be a big saver in time if they're good enough. It gives to time to work on other things. But I buy RTR, the first thing I do is ditch the couplings, then the box then the wheels. Then it's all about customising it. I think the Hornby SR Cattle wagon is not bad but don't quote me on that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 25 minutes ago, Ben Alder said: I had a bash at the Parkside LMS cattle wagon when it came out - they did the early version, which with a bit of work can be made into a slightly later one, and with a lot more work can be a passable late version, which is the most useful for BR modellers, although the earlier ones did hang about in small numbers until quite late on. Here are a couple of shots - first the kit as it came, then the early one with an altered door and slightly different strapping. Then the later type. A WIP of the change . I covered it in a bit more depth in my workbench thread - page 5 here - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69241-ben-alders-workbench/&page= It's always worth a peep into you thread to see what you are up to, though I just lurk. What a Superb herd of cattle wagons! 5 minutes ago, Clem said: No, it's me - I think I got it wrong .. It was the Bachmann BR Cattle Wagon which looked very good until I realised it was 3 or 4 mm too long - noticeably so when you realise it. RTR models can be a big saver in time if they're good enough. It gives to time to work on other things. But I buy RTR, the first thing I do is ditch the couplings, then the box then the wheels. Then it's all about customising it. I think the Hornby SR Cattle wagon is not bad but don't quote me on that. Got you, yes, Bachmann also make a cattle wagon that is too short, just to balance up the extra plastic used in the one that is too long. Better watch out, I shall be on to the recent release by Hornby of their all new, retooled, all singing and dancing fantasy coal wagons. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 I love this thread! Thanks for the link for your workbench thread, Ben Alder (sorry I don't know your name). Lovely collection of vans and a great set of projects on your workbench! I still have a picture I took of the trackless engine shed at Wick in 1965. 7 minutes ago, Headstock said: Better watch out, I shall be on to the recent release by Hornby of their all new, retooled, all singing and dancing fantasy coal wagons. Oh no. I dread to think... but I suppose we shouldn't judge it before it comes out. But having just built about 25 Parkside, Cambrian and ABS coal wagons, I've had enough of them for the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigw Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 53 minutes ago, Clem said: I love this thread! Thanks for the link for your workbench thread, Ben Alder (sorry I don't know your name). Lovely collection of vans and a great set of projects on your workbench! I still have a picture I took of the trackless engine shed at Wick in 1965. Oh no. I dread to think... but I suppose we shouldn't judge it before it comes out. But having just built about 25 Parkside, Cambrian and ABS coal wagons, I've had enough of them for the moment. Clem, Depending on your level of pedantry the Coopercraft W1/W5 will be a fair bit of work to make into something that is actually accurate. The roof profile is actually that of the later W8 wagon and while it is reasonably easy to correct it does involve a new roof as well. The underframe and brake gear is pretty ordinary too. I have a batch of them to build in early 1920s condition, but am concentrating on open wagons at present. Regards, Craig w 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Clem said: Oh no. I dread to think... but I suppose we shouldn't judge it before it comes out. But having just built about 25 Parkside, Cambrian and ABS coal wagons, I've had enough of them for the moment. Know the feeling - this was the result of an ebay haul, some Cambrian builds and a few stragglers on the bench. Got to the priming stage and the awful realisation of what lay ahead in doing another batch of mostly unfitted and patched up wooden bodies meant that a Parkside box was their best home for a while.These things are best done two or three at a time..... Edited February 10, 2019 by Ben Alder Punctuation. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrovich Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 8 hours ago, Ben Alder said: I had a bash at the Parkside LMS cattle wagon when it came out - they did the early version, which with a bit of work can be made into a slightly later one, and with a lot more work can be a passable late version, which is the most useful for BR modellers, although the earlier ones did hang about in small numbers until quite late on. Here are a couple of shots - first the kit as it came, then the early one with an altered door and slightly different strapping. Then the later type. A WIP of the change . I covered it in a bit more depth in my workbench thread - page 5 here - https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69241-ben-alders-workbench/&page= Hi Richard Good to see the variations of these wagons and thanks for the info the other day. Regards Peter 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 8 hours ago, Craigw said: Clem, Depending on your level of pedantry the Coopercraft W1/W5 will be a fair bit of work to make into something that is actually accurate. The roof profile is actually that of the later W8 wagon and while it is reasonably easy to correct it does involve a new roof as well. The underframe and brake gear is pretty ordinary too. I have a batch of them to build in early 1920s condition, but am concentrating on open wagons at present. Regards, Craig w Thanks for the heads up on that one, Craig. I'll look well into that before tackling it. Clem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScRSG Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Any comment on the Airfix cattle wagon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glo41f Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Greatly enjoyed the film of LB and the commentary. It is an astounding piece of work. I am truly awed by the talents and abilities of the folk who lurk in this parish. Reading the thread is like a pleasant evening with mates at the pub. Thank you all for brightening up a dull wet weekend. Best of all my B17 chassis worked well yesterday on a large circular test track so Helmingham is on the home straight but I cannot remember where I put the nameplates! Martin Long 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2019 Tony re WR mogul 4358 After a major search through much of my library I have finally run to earth a second, and very clear, photo of 4358 and it's in colour. According to the caption the photo was taken at Gloucester shed (it obviously was) on 8 June 1958 and it shows a somewhat grubby engine and tender but the lining still shows through the muck. According to the same caption (not checked against any other source) the engine was withdrawn on 11 August 1959. From looking through a large number of photos it appears that Caerphilly was probably the only works to separately line out a panel on the fender on tenders. And it also seems that judging by the date it was outshopped (February 1957) and Caerphilly going over to the second BR emblem (March 1957) the livery on 4358 was probably unique although at least one other tender lined in that fashion was later outshopped by Caerphilly but with the second emblem. Sorry it's taken a time and probably too late for your review but of course I inevitably looked in all the wrong books etc before coming to the right one yesterday evening. Nothing on the tender back I'm afraid. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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