Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

43 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

Yes they do.  The best are from from Alan Butler at Modelu. 

 

Tim

Haven't you got your lamps mounted a bit too low, Tim?

 

Photographic evidence suggests the brackets were at least a foot above the buffers (maybe more) on the P2s - 2mm in your scale. The RH lamp might be nearer the 'true' position. It would also appear that the middle bracket is too close to the coupling (caused by the bottom,hinged section on the wedge front being too low?). 

 

I know the photograph is the most-cruel of close-ups, but, it's the spirit of 'constructive criticism' in which I offer these observations. 

 

Still outstanding modelling, though, in such a small scale. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Headstock]

19 minutes ago, Atso said:

 

I guess it depends on period and locations as well. The c. 1934-37 2.04pm Cambridge to King's Cross set I'm modelling has no less than three composites in a six coach formation. A higher number of first class seats than you might expect for such a service but it was also made up of available cascaded stock - still evidence that it could happen, regardless whether it was to actually serve first class passengers.

 

I've been lucky enough to get a peek at both the 1935 and 1938 GN section Carriage Working Books recently. There are a surprising number of composites and composite brakes in several of the GN mainline expresses that worked to and from King's Cross - I've not seen the ECML workings yet. I suspect that this is because these trains typically had quite a few through carriages working to multiple other destinations and therefore it was deemed prudent to offer both first and third class seating for each section.

 

Evening Steve,

as you say, period and location. The model portrays a MK1 formation ( due to lack of lamps, I don't know if it is an express or an ordinary passenger train), presumably in the late fifties. Not really comparable to the GN line in the midd to late thirties, different worlds. If you think about it, it is not at all surprising there was quite a large  provision of first class accommodation on the Cambridge services. They even had their own club, sorry, Buffet Cars.

[96701]

On 16/02/2019 at 20:59, Theakerr said:

Well my 25+ year old DJH A2 kit has had its first real test run.  Valve gear to be added after a period of test running with a coach load.  Only a few blue sparks in the dark and easily fixed.  Right away running was 'not too bad' but that short wheel-base did not like my insulated points (installed 30 years ago) so I had to instal tender pickups.  The DCC concepts pickup unit fits perfectly over the hole for one of the tender mounts, so I thought this would be an easy installation.  Not so.  Took me some time to click to the fact that what I thought were chemically blackened steel wheels were in fact chemically blackened brass wheels and did not conduct.  Grinding off the blackening solved the problem, but I suspect based on previous experience with brass cleaning will be an ongoing chore.  Replacing the brass wheels with steel is not really an option because I soldered the tender frame together.   Only problem I haven't solved is how to straighten out a vacuum brake pipe unit.  As received it is too short for the front so I tried straightening the curved end out.  Broke; as did two others that I had in stock.  I tried letting one of them sit in pretty hot water but it also broke.  Looks a bit like an inherent casting problem.  

BTW Over here is Canada

See if you can get hold of some used guitar strings for vac pipes.  They can be as long as one wishes......

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

As requested                          

Full marks for observation, Mick.

 

Why DUKE OF ROTHESAY was the only one of the Thompson Pacifics never to get the little footsteps on the curved, front footplate remains a mystery. 

 

Speaking of observation.............. Are they Bachmann bogie wheels? I know you don't like the 'correct' bogie wheels, but those on your (lovely) models don't look like any LNER bogie wheel.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[CF MRC]

14 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Haven't you got your lamps mounted a bit too low, Tim?

 

Photographic evidence suggests the brackets were at least a foot above the buffers (maybe more) on the P2s - 2mm in your scale. The RH lamp might be nearer the 'true' position. It would also appear that the middle bracket is too close to the coupling (caused by the bottom,hinged section on the wedge front being too low?). 

 

I know the photograph is the most-cruel of close-ups, but, it's the spirit of 'constructive criticism' in which I offer these observations. 

 

Still outstanding modelling, though, in such a small scale. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

You are correct, of course, Tony.  The lampirons were ba####ds to fit. I have also trimmed the lamps so that they fit right down onto the brackets, perhaps more on the nearside, as most model engine lamps look too ‘perched’.

It might get modified. 

 

Tim

Edited February 18, 2019 by CF MRC

[Atso]

13 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Evening Steve,

as you say, period and location. The model portrays a MK1 formation ( due to lack of lamps, I don't know if it is an express or an ordinary passenger train), presumably in the late fifties. Not really comparable to the GN line in the midd to late thirties, different worlds. If you think about it, it is not at all surprising there was quite a large  provision of first class accommodation on the Cambridge services. They even had their own club, sorry, Buffet Cars.

 

Evening Andrew,

 

I completely agree that the two eras aren't comparable but felt that it needed to be pointed out that this could be different through the ages - sorry if it came across otherwise.

 

Interestingly, the 2.04pm has no catering services attached but three composites. By contrast, the short five carriage version of the 'Cambridge Buffet Car Express', or 'Beer Trains' as they were nicknamed, that I'll also be modelling, had only one composite in the formation - but it was made up exclusively of later built ex-GN stock. I'm sure that all made sense to someone at the time!

Edited February 18, 2019 by Atso

[Headstock]

28 minutes ago, Atso said:

 

Evening Andrew,

 

I completely agree that the two eras aren't comparable but felt that it needed to be pointed out that this could be different through the ages - sorry if it came across otherwise.

 

Interestingly, the 2.04pm has no catering services attached but three composites. By contrast, the short five carriage version of the 'Cambridge Buffet Car Express', or 'Beer Trains' as they were nicknamed, that I'll also be modelling, had only one composite in the formation - but it was made up exclusively of later built ex-GN stock. I'm sure that all made sense to someone at the time!

 

Steve,

 

your 2.04 pm was probably full of Profs going up to town after a big meal, only to sleep it off at various society meetings around the capital. The undergrads were probably ensconced in the 'Beer train'.

 

Incidentally, what is the formation of your 2.04 pm Cambridge - KX, and  more important than the number of composites, how many first class seats has the train?

Edited February 18, 2019 by Headstock
To add a question.

[Clive Mortimore]

I might not pronounce the T in water and three might sound like free and I ain't no good at spelling even using foniks. I do enjoy having a go at model making. I recently motorised some old MTK kits I have had knocking about for years and a Cravens DMU made from cut and shut Tri-ang coaches I started 33 years ago. They have been put to one side as the past few days I have been working on a Edinburgh to Glasgow DMU, from Trix coaches and scratchbuilt Hastings unit.

A Derby heavy weight long underframe unit.

An eight car train formed of a Cravens (MTK), a Gloucester (MTK), a BRCW (MTK) and a Cravens (Tri-ang).

From the other end.

The chassis of the Cravens unit, the others are much the same design. I know it is the Hornby ringfield motor which many will regard as a bad power unit. It works, it runs well if looked after, and using the Honeby clip fit DMU bogies I have more DMUs which when finished will compliment those I already have on my layout.

A Tri-ang coach underframe, again motorised using the Hornby power unit. This will be the model power car for the Edinburgh and Glasgow unit. The motor will be hidden in the buffet section of trailer first buffet car. placing it in the middle. The usual means of hiding the motor is to place it in the brake van portion of the MBS. If I do built the full six car train ( only three cars at present) it will place the motor bogie in the middle, less problems pushing 3 coaches than trying whizz five in front of the power car.

I also got out my part done Pullman conversions , sadly Hornby have over taken me and now produce these types.

Kitchen first

Second Parlour

Second kitchen.

 

And for Andrew (Headstock) look what I found.

 

 

Lastly from the spare bits of Tri-ang coaches I have made a diagram 1/552 inspection saloon. Not to bad for bits I was going to bin.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[96701]

2 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I might not pronounce the T in water and three might sound like free and I ain't no good at spelling even using foniks. I do enjoy having a go at model making. I recently motorised some old MTK kits I have had knocking about for years and a Cravens DMU made from cut and shut Tri-ang coaches I started 33 years ago. They have been put to one side as the past few days I have been working on a Edinburgh to Glasgow DMU, from Trix coaches and scratchbuilt Hastings unit.

A Derby heavy weight long underframe unit.

An eight car train formed of a Cravens (MTK), a Gloucester (MTK), a BRCW (MTK) and a Cravens (Tri-ang).

From the other end.

The chassis of the Cravens unit, the others are much the same design. I know it is the Hornby ringfield motor which many will regard as a bad power unit. It works, it runs well if looked after, and using the Honeby clip fit DMU bogies I have more DMUs which when finished will compliment those I already have on my layout.

A Tri-ang coach underframe, again motorised using the Hornby power unit. This will be the model power car for the Edinburgh and Glasgow unit. The motor will be hidden in the buffet section of trailer first buffet car. placing it in the middle. The usual means of hiding the motor is to place it in the brake van portion of the MBS. If I do built the full six car train ( only three cars at present) it will place the motor bogie in the middle, less problems pushing 3 coaches than trying whizz five in front of the power car.

I also got out my part done Pullman conversions , sadly Hornby have over taken me and now produce these types.

Kitchen first

Second Parlour

Second kitchen.

 

And for Andrew (Headstock) look what I found.

 

 

 

I'd love to see your layout in the flesh, it looks like you have real fun with it.

 

[Jesse Sim]

4 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Including some Apostrophe Drill......

Can I gets it ats the hardwares?

[Clive Mortimore]

1 minute ago, 96701 said:

I'd love to see your layout in the flesh, it looks like you have real fun with it.

 

Hi Phil

 

I do and yes if you are ever in the wilds of north east Lincolnshire by all means come and have a play.

[Atso]

15 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Steve,

 

your 2.04 pm was probably full of Profs going up to town after a big meal, only to sleep it off at various society meetings around the capital. The undergrads were probably ensconced in the 'Beer train'.

 

Incidentally, what is the formation of your 2.04 pm Cambridge - KX, and  more important than the number of composites, how many first class seats has the train?

 

I'm not sure about your theory about the Profs but I understand that the 'Beer Train' was christened as such by the undergrads.

 

I'm not at home so can't provide seat numbers tonight. The formation was:

 

- TK (clerestory)

- BC (D. 183)

- C (Howlden)

- TK

- TK

- BC (D. 183)

 

Thinking about it, despite the 50/50 split of coaches, probably not a huge number of first seats on this one - and as I previously said, all cascaded ex-GN stock. Another, more common, working was made up of two pairs of brake composite twins, again I can't remember the numbers of seats but I do remember that the break down of seats worked out at exactly 20% firsts and 80% thirds. Looking at it like this, I think I see the point you may be heading towards.

[Headstock]

12 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

 

And for Andrew (Headstock) look what I found.

 

 

 

 

Awww, Mum, Dad and baby van.

[Headstock]

52 minutes ago, Atso said:

 

I'm not sure about your theory about the Profs but I understand that the 'Beer Train' was christened as such by the undergrads.

 

I'm not at home so can't provide seat numbers tonight. The formation was:

 

- TK (clerestory)

- BC (D. 183)

- C (Howlden)

- TK

- TK

- BC (D. 183)

 

Thinking about it, despite the 50/50 split of coaches, probably not a huge number of first seats on this one - and as I previously said, all cascaded ex-GN stock. Another, more common, working was made up of two pairs of brake composite twins, again I can't remember the numbers of seats but I do remember that the break down of seats worked out at exactly 20% firsts and 80% thirds. Looking at it like this, I think I see the point you may be heading towards.

 

Steve,

 

I was not entirely serious about the profs, the point was more about the lack of catering on a train timetabled to depart at 2.04 pm.

 

In contrast to your train, the train in the model above deploys four corridor composites (not brake composites, they did different job) A mark 1 composite has available twenty four first class seats and eighteen third class, even with the brake third added on, that would make ninety six first class seats and ninety six third class!  You can see how a brake compo can be used to redress the balance but the above formation is just silly. The Bradford portion of the SouthYorksireman functioned in a similar way to your train in 1955

 

BCK

CK

TK

TK

TK

BCK

Edited February 19, 2019 by Headstock
add a space, thanks software.

[Atso]

2 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Steve,

 

I was not entirely serious about the profs, the point was more about the lack of catering on a train timetabled to depart at 2.04 pm.

 

In contrast to your train, the train in the model above deploys four corridor composites (not brake composites, they did different job) A mark 1 composite has available twenty four first class seats and eighteen third class, even with the brake third added on, that would make ninety six first class seats and ninety third class!  You can see how a brake compo can be used to redress the balance but the above formation is just silly. The Bradford portion of the SouthYorksireman functioned in a similar way to your train in 1955

 

BCK

CK

TK

TK

TK

BCK

 

I know your weren't being serious about the profs but regarding the undergrads you might well be spot on!

 

I see your point about the MK1 formation, over 50% of the seating being allocated first class is ridiculous in anyone's book - I'm not sure, but the LNER 'Northern Bell' might have been an exception to this but then it was an exceptional and very unusual (unique?) train!

 

The make up of your 1955 Bradford portion is interesting as it is very similar to the kind of thing that would have been seen in the 1930s.

 

This nicely leads me off topic (as usual!) about the GN section expresses that would have gone in and out of King's Cross. My embryonic c. 40-50 move sequence for Hadley Wood would call on three or four such expresses in each direction, which isn't feasible for the fiddle yard. Therefore, following much correspondence with Steve Banks (and much consultation of his and Clive Carter's book), I think the solution is to model these trains in the generic (but broadly believable) sense only. However, I can use the fiddle yard to marshall pre-set pieces so that each time an express appears, it will be a different (but not 100% accurate) formation.

 

My my basic plan is to have two five/six carriage 'core' sections with catering vehicles (I.e. one with a RF/OTP and another with a triplet) as described in the book and several 'end' formations, representing the various through portions, to choose from. These can be pulled out of kickback sidings as and when required and put back again afterwards. More work in the fiddle yard but potentially a way to give the impression that there is more back there than there really will be. Not the way I would really like to do things in terms of accuracy, but at least it will be for the formations that will be seen for the shortest time in the scenic section...

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

I have a few mates who say ‘free’ instead of ‘three’, we all laugh it off and call them illiterates. But I can say that my whole group of Bloke’s and Sheila’s say ‘100%’ when agreeing with something, or just saying ‘hunnid’. 

 

Looks like I’ll be copping more English lessons again this November! 

100%!

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, CF MRC said:

You are correct, of course, Tony.  The lampirons were ba####ds to fit. I have also trimmed the lamps so that they fit right down onto the brackets, perhaps more on the nearside, as most model engine lamps look too ‘perched’.

It might get modified. 

 

Tim

Thanks Tim,

 

And thanks for posting this picture. Isn't it fantastic? I've not seen this one before.

 

I've also learned something this morning (I have plenty to learn!). That the LNER used (at least) two sizes of front numerals on the P2s (I know the A4s varied), and why doesn't WOLF OF BADENOCH have its class designation on the front? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I might not pronounce the T in water and three might sound like free and I ain't no good at spelling even using foniks. I do enjoy having a go at model making. I recently motorised some old MTK kits I have had knocking about for years and a Cravens DMU made from cut and shut Tri-ang coaches I started 33 years ago. They have been put to one side as the past few days I have been working on a Edinburgh to Glasgow DMU, from Trix coaches and scratchbuilt Hastings unit.

A Derby heavy weight long underframe unit.

An eight car train formed of a Cravens (MTK), a Gloucester (MTK), a BRCW (MTK) and a Cravens (Tri-ang).

From the other end.

The chassis of the Cravens unit, the others are much the same design. I know it is the Hornby ringfield motor which many will regard as a bad power unit. It works, it runs well if looked after, and using the Honeby clip fit DMU bogies I have more DMUs which when finished will compliment those I already have on my layout.

A Tri-ang coach underframe, again motorised using the Hornby power unit. This will be the model power car for the Edinburgh and Glasgow unit. The motor will be hidden in the buffet section of trailer first buffet car. placing it in the middle. The usual means of hiding the motor is to place it in the brake van portion of the MBS. If I do built the full six car train ( only three cars at present) it will place the motor bogie in the middle, less problems pushing 3 coaches than trying whizz five in front of the power car.

I also got out my part done Pullman conversions , sadly Hornby have over taken me and now produce these types.

Kitchen first

Second Parlour

Second kitchen.

 

And for Andrew (Headstock) look what I found.

 

 

Lastly from the spare bits of Tri-ang coaches I have made a diagram 1/552 inspection saloon. Not to bad for bits I was going to bin.

That's incredibly-inventive modelling, Clive,

 

Thanks for showing us (and my apologies if the pictures keep on being repeated).

 

MTK kits? We've been here before. I've only ever built one, and I considered it (in terms of difficulty) as being analogous with having intercourse, standing up in a hammock, on board a small ship in a hurricane (not that I've tried this, not even on dry land!).

 

Carry on with your Pullman conversions. So what if Hornby has now produced all the types? They're wonderful models (at a price, of course), but yours will be unique. Might I suggest 'proper' bogies from MJT or Kean Systems? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, 96701 said:

I'd love to see your layout in the flesh, it looks like you have real fun with it.

 

It's well worth seeing, Phil,

 

Not only that, it works really well, is full of the most appealing modelling and it's everything I admire in this creative hobby - personal modelling, inventiveness, self-reliance, creativity, economical and huge fun. 

[Headstock]

Morning Chaps,

 

Over the weekend I completed the construction of the five compartment BTK from page 1291 and last night I started on the first of two compartment door thirds.

 

The five compartment BTK makes for a rather interesting aspect compared to the other Gresley gangway brake thirds. The recessed portion of the van compartment is rather short, being identical to the 6 compartment BTK. Conversely, the full width portion is unusually long. This section more typically occupied a space of three or four panels and perhaps a single top light on other brake thirds. The remaining recessed portion then made up much the larger proportion of the van. Space could not be found for the two sets of double doors as seen in the three and four compartment brake thirds. The five compartment design was rather atypical despite being the second most common type of brake third built by the LNER.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Headstock
BTK

[Tony Wright]

Something of interest?

 

 

This little Ivatt 2-6-0 came from the estate of the deceased modeller mentioned earlier.

 

Like the vast majority of his projects, it was never finished. It looks like it's an original Tri-ang/Hornby body, which he'd modified and started to detail. He'd scratch-built a set of frames for it and made a Comet set of motion. I took pity on it, fitted wheels and motor, and made the pony and the tender frames. I added the handrails and several detailing bits. It's yet to have a few more bits fitted, and to receive the correct, nine-spoked pony wheels. The motion was very stiff, so that's been sorted out and it now runs very well. 

 

I wonder what it might be worth now? Any ideas, please? Obviously, were it painted (which I might well do) it would be much easier to sell. 

 

Anyway, who knows. At least one of the class was shedded at Nottingham in the mid-'50s, so might it have run on the M&GNR?

[Re6/6]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

MTK kits? We've been here before. I've only ever built one, and I considered it (in terms of difficulty) as being analogous with having intercourse, standing up in a hammock, on board a small ship in a hurricane (not that I've tried this, not even on dry land!).

 

 

A delightful analogy Tony! I can wholeheartedly agree with you about MTK.

 

I've built a Raworth SR electric loco which started out life as just an MTK brass wrapper. Fortunately I didn't acquire any of their notoriously lumpen whitemetal bits so had build my own front ends, chassis frame and all the many louvres. Although the wrapper body was pretty accurate when compared with all the known drawings it had a decided 'corkscrew' shape to it and was the very devil to straighten out.  This led on to a further problem of soldering on the new front end panels, and anything else come to that. The wrapper was made from 20thou+ thick brass and I could only solder it with a gas flame as I didn't have any old fashioned high wattage iron. Linger with the flame for a mere fraction of a second too long and the whole front end fell apart and this happened more than once!

 

The chassis that I used came from a Bachmann Class 37 with Ultrascales fitted and it purrs along. The pan is one of Micheal Edge's fine nickel-silver etches. There is still much to do like the replacement of the over large and thick headcode discs.

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

12 hours ago, nerron said:

A Cockney when asked his age replied "firty free" He was then asked to spell thirty three to which he replied "you can't spell firty free it is a number!"

Hello Ron

 

Cor blimey, when me mincers copped a butchers at this I couldn't adam and eve it.

 

I first heard this "joke" or a version of it and it was aimed at someone called Patrick, are Londoners the new Irish? 

[Compound2632]

11 hours ago, Atso said:

 

I guess it depends on period and locations as well. The c. 1934-37 2.04pm Cambridge to King's Cross set I'm modelling has no less than three composites in a six coach formation. A higher number of first class seats than you might expect for such a service but it was also made up of available cascaded stock - still evidence that it could happen, regardless whether it was to actually serve first class passengers.

 

I've been lucky enough to get a peek at both the 1935 and 1938 GN section Carriage Working Books recently. There are a surprising number of composites and composite brakes in several of the GN mainline expresses that worked to and from King's Cross - I've not seen the ECML workings yet. I suspect that this is because these trains typically had quite a few through carriages working to multiple other destinations and therefore it was deemed prudent to offer both first and third class seating for each section.

 

Indeed. The further back one goes, the less likely one is to get a string of all-thirds in a long-distance train. 

[The Fatadder]

After a winter working on my 1990s layout, I have been doing some proper modelling over the past few days building the body of a Mitchel kit for a Manor class. 

 

Its been a fun build so far, although my soldering standard still leaves a lot to be desired and the model desperately needs cleaning (I have only been cleaning the area to be soldered).  I have now got to the stage that I need to crack out my new rolling bars and roll my first boiler.  To say I am nervous is an understatement!

Inspired by this thread I have been trying to solder on as many of the small details as possible, whereas in the past I would have been tempted to resort to glue.  So thanks again to Tony and this thread for the motivation provided, its so much more enjoyable than waiting for xyz to produce a decent manor.

 

 

I now need to get a Comet chassis for it (given the Mitchell part is no longer available) and wheels/motor etc, I had quite forgotten just how expensive getting the parts for a chassis actually is.  Hopefully this chassis build will run better than the county / 47xx both of which still leave a lot to be desired…