Wright writes.....

[APOLLO]

Last month I took a risk with a cheapish Atlas O N American diesel loco on ebay. "Good condition but runs poorly in one direction". It arrived, looked good and ran just as the seller described. Off with the body and lo and behold, TWO DCC chips fitted, a huge diode block and a nest of unfathomable wires. I cut the lot out, leaving the wires from the pick ups and back from the motors (yes 2 flywheel motors, one per bogie) as long as possible. A quick re-connection, pick ups to motors (connected in parallel) and all was well - she ran smooth & silent. Lights need a couple of directional diodes fixing sometime though.

 

A good cheap addition to the fleet.  DCC - nuff said !!.

 

Brit15

[Clive Mortimore]

With the risk of being called a DC Troll again I am bemused by some of our fellow modellers. There is a thread regarding layouts controlled by DC and DCC, why? If you want to spend time wiring a layout for DC, why waste money on a second type of control and all them decoders. And to top the lot the OP states he doesn't understand what a DPDT switch is.

 

If someone feels that DCC will provide them with a means to make their trains go backwards and the other way, stop when they want, be a mobile disco with sound and lights, fine just forget about mixing it with DC................sell them old loved models, or get the soldering iron out and hard wire a decoder.

 

I am thinking of starting up a DC business, for those who want a particular model that only comes DCC fitted but have a DC layout. You know those who cannot either fit a blanking plate or hard wire the motor to the pick-ups. 

 

 

[woodenhead]

26 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

With the risk of being called a DC Troll again I am bemused by some of our fellow modellers. There is a thread regarding layouts controlled by DC and DCC, why? If you want to spend time wiring a layout for DC, why waste money on a second type of control and all them decoders. And to top the lot the OP states he doesn't understand what a DPDT switch is.

 

If someone feels that DCC will provide them with a means to make their trains go backwards and the other way, stop when they want, be a mobile disco with sound and lights, fine just forget about mixing it with DC................sell them old loved models, or get the soldering iron out and hard wire a decoder.

 

I am thinking of starting up a DC business, for those who want a particular model that only comes DCC fitted but have a DC layout. You know those who cannot either fit a blanking plate or hard wire the motor to the pick-ups. 

 

 

DC Concepts?

East Coast Not Digital

[Dave John]

A cam in the loco to synchronise sound to wheel revolutions ? Hmm, anyone remember the old PFM sound systems from the 1970s ? 

 

I saw one once at an exhibition, impressive in its day, but silly money if I remember correctly. 

 

Anyway, having a lunchtime drive of a few trains complete with the realistic steam hiss and sausage and egg frying sound effect. 

 

Oh, hang on thats coming from the kitchen.......... 

[PMP]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

With the risk of being called a DC Troll again I am bemused by some of our fellow modellers. There is a thread regarding layouts controlled by DC and DCC, why? If you want to spend time wiring a layout for DC, why waste money on a second type of control and all them decoders. And to top the lot the OP states he doesn't understand what a DPDT switch is.

 

 

It’s a really simple answer, so you can run the layout as DC or DCC as you prefer.

 

I’ve done it with Albion Yard, Shelfie1 and Shelfie2. At Derby exhibition a few years back on set up the DC wiring loom developed a fault that killed one controller. Also it left locomotives uncontrollable, no movement in one direction, and max speed the other. I was able to swap to DCC and ran the whole show with two DCC sound fitted Panniers. Barry Ten’s  used the both systems on AYd, and might recall the chuff is synchronised to revolution on my Panniers, with the volume at a discrete level. This helps with the acoustics as the speakers are well matched to the volume setting, giving little distortion.

 

Having both systems on my layouts gives me maximum flexibility, not only do I have an alternative system back up, if a mate brings a DCC model across to play, we can run it. I can also run my HO DCC trains, whilst I don’t have an HO layout for them.

DCC 

 

DC

Edited April 24, 2019 by PMP

[grahame]

I haven't posted any new modelling for a while, and this is not new, but while taking a few snaps for my last ever issue of the NGS Journal (as editor), I also snapped these incomplete N/2mm buildings which were on the sideboard where I'd set up some lighting. I hope no-one minds (as I'm sure I've posted similar shots) and finds it of interest. In front will be the viaduct that leads in to London Bridge station. The buildings aren't exact replicas but the modern looking one was formerly 'Roberts and Leete Printers' (who produced many notable WW1 posters) and then became David Lloyd Pigott and Co (an important tea and coffee merchants for over 200 years) and can often be seen behind period photos of trains. It was vacant and cleaned up when I photographed it. 

 

 

G

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, PMP said:

 

It’s a really simple answer, so you can run the layout as DC or DCC as you prefer.

 

I’ve done it with Albion Yard, Shelfie1 and Shelfie2. At Derby exhibition a few years back on set up the DC wiring loom developed a fault that killed one controller. Also it left locomotives uncontrollable, no movement in one direction, and max speed the other. I was able to swap to DCC and ran the whole show with two DCC sound fitted Panniers. Barry Ten’s  used the both systems on AYd, and might recall the chuff is synchronised to revolution on my Panniers, with the volume at a discrete level. This helps with the acoustics as the speakers are well matched to the volume setting, giving little distortion.

 

Having both systems on my layouts gives me maximum flexibility, not only do I have an alternative system back up, if a mate brings a DCC model across to play, we can run it. I can also run my HO DCC trains, whilst I don’t have an HO layout for them.

DCC 

 

DC

Hi PMP

 

Two points about your post.

 

1, I always have a spare 100M controller with me when I go to a show. Never had to use it.

 

2, I stupidly allowed Hanging Hill to be run as DCC, using other people's locos. Apart form a lack of consistency on what was the front the loco so all went forward when the control said go forward and the same address for locos which caused locos to move which we didn't expect to, it was horrendous. All section and isolating sections switched on, which shouldn't have caused a problem but there was event after event. Mainly short circuits where a siding was fed from one end and locos were being parked over the rail break the other end and the point wasn't set for that siding. "The red barrel marks the rail break don't go over it." " But this is DCC and I park were I like". "No the red barrel marks where you stop, Not only the section break but" ....BANG, as a loco leaving the adjacent siding walloped it. Best part was when there was a short every thing went silent.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Clive Mortimore

[thegreenhowards]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Andy,

 

Me complain!?

 

I think the point I was trying to make was that I took a perfectly-running DC loco and installed a chip in it. The original feed wires acted as stays for the motor/gearbox, preventing the drive from jumping around inside under load. These had to be reconfigured, which is a fag. I then tested it (only on DC, of course), and it then didn't run as sweetly. It didn't start straight away, then shot off. I know this sort of thing is common (and, thus, expected), but there's still something in me which finds it hard to have built a loco which runs beautifully-smoothly (on analogue), then to install an expensive further item inside it which then means it doesn't run as well! 

 

Maybe Tom Foster will comment here. I built him a 16XX Pannier from a SE Finecast kit. It ran perfectly. Despite my protestations, he wanted a chip fitted, which I did. The result, a poor runner (on analogue). Tom tried 'fiddling' with it using DCC. He couldn't get it to run as well as it did originally. What I found interesting was that a DCC supplier said that such a thing can happen. The motor (a wee Mashima) turned out to be happier on analogue than DCC, however the chip was configured. Though he's a very dear friend, it's up to him now. I'm not faffing around with it any more. He received a perfectly-functioning loco I'd built. Because of DCC it's now not as good a runner. No doubt the DCC-ites will tell me I'm talking nonsense (I often do!), but perhaps they'd like to investigate. I'm not! 

 

I think you're right about DCC not being at fault because users won't fit chips (though why anyone would use a system for which they can't do even the most basic things with puzzles me). Bits fall off all the time, of course, whether one wants to install DCC or not.

 

I remain, as ever, a Luddite. Nothing I've seen convinces me that DCC is a way forward for me. If folk want to invest lots of dosh, buying into systems they don't understand, and/or drive fellow exhibitors nuts with constantly-droning, too loud sound effects, then that's up to them. If they wish to be seen as 'entertainers' at a show, with all of them gazing blankly at 'tablet'-like things (or, worse still, mobile phones!) while nothing happens on their railway, then let them do it. As you know, on LB I flick a switch, move a slider and a train just moves away, making its own natural sound. Why do I even need to know its number before I can drive it?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony,

 

I understand your frustration, and I have to say that one of my least favourite jobs is fitting a DCC chip to kit built locos. It often takes a while, and I have had a couple which don’t run as well on DCC. I have also had many RTR locos which run better on DCC. This probably helps to explain why you hate DCC and many other modellers love it. 

 

I’ve said this before, but for a roundy roundy layout with 100s of kit built locos (I.e. LB), DC is the only sensible choice, whereas for a newly built terminus layout with lots of shunting and RTR locos, then DCC is the obvious choice.

 

For me, I’m happy to invest a moderate amount of dosh in a system that I (largely) understand and which enables me to simplify wiring and recreate the sound of long lost engines in my loft. 

 

I think we we have to agree to disagree!

 

Andy

[PMP]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi PMP

 

Two points about your post.

 

1, I always have a spare 100M controller with me when I go to a show. Never had to use it.

 

2, I stupidly allowed Hanging Hill to be run as DCC, using other people's locos. Apart form a lack of consistency on what was the front the loco so all went forward when the control said go forward and the same address for locos which caused locos to move which we didn't expect to, it was horrendous. All section and isolating sections switched on, which shouldn't have caused a problem but there was event after event. Mainly short circuits where a siding was fed from one end and locos were being parked over the rail break the other end and the point wasn't set for that siding. "The red barrel marks the rail break don't go over it." " But this is DCC and I park were I like". "No the red barrel marks where you stop, Not only the section break but" ....BANG, as a loco leaving the adjacent siding walloped it. Best part was when there was a short every thing went silent.

 

1. I replaced the controller with my spare, same thing occurred apart from the controller didn't burn out. The Duette I temporarily wired in worked normally but was impractical for the exhibition, so we swapped to DCC with no problem, and during the week after I resolved the DC issue.

 

2. Apart from everything resetting to the same address, none of the issues are DCC related, they're the operator's and builders. The direction of diesels can be easily set as standard using the roof fan, or if symmetric designs, by a identifiable mark, eg a patch of weathering. If the operator's didn't listen to you regarding sections and track feeds etc which is what you've said, that's them, not DCC causing the issues. If I operate someone's DC/DCC layout and ignore their instruction and advice, operating problems are far more likely to be down to me than any systems in use, I cant recall an issue on any friends DCC layout I've been operating on that wasn't caused by me.

[Atso]

Despite being under forty (for a couple more years at least) and planning/building a reasonably complex layout, I have no interest in DCC. However, I do enjoy building kits and therefore would like to share the following N gauge and 2mm etches I've been building recently. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Atso

[Clive Mortimore]

12 minutes ago, PMP said:

 

1. I replaced the controller with my spare, same thing occurred apart from the controller didn't burn out. The Duette I temporarily wired in worked normally but was impractical for the exhibition, so we swapped to DCC with no problem, and during the week after I resolved the DC issue.

 

2. Apart from everything resetting to the same address, none of the issues are DCC related, they're the operator's and builders. The direction of diesels can be easily set as standard using the roof fan, or if symmetric designs, by a identifiable mark, eg a patch of weathering. If the operator's didn't listen to you regarding sections and track feeds etc which is what you've said, that's them, not DCC causing the issues. If I operate someone's DC/DCC layout and ignore their instruction and advice, operating problems are far more likely to be down to me than any systems in use, I cant recall an issue on any friends DCC layout I've been operating on that wasn't caused by me.

1, That is your wiring then.

 

2, No they wouldn't listen because it was DCC....it is a mind set with some people.

[PMP]

59 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

1, That is your wiring then.

 

2, No they wouldn't listen because it was DCC....it is a mind set with some people.

1, sort of. Bear in mind the loom for both DC and DCC is one and the same, and both had been working on test a few hours earlier prior to transporting to the show, and the Duette worked ok. The subsequent cause was the layout female DC connection for the two hand held controllers tried, had an internal structural failure allowing intermittent contacts and shorting within the housing. The DCC and duette connection bypassed this, so the fault wouldn't replicate!

 

2, The problem still isn't DCC. Its the individuals concerned you mention, and their attitude. You'll almost certainly find similar people amongst the DC/3 rail/RC/live steam communities.

[Barry O]

If a loco doesn't run "as well" on dcc as it does on dc....

1 you may have pick up problems you haven't realised were there

2 you may have not set the chip up correctly

3 hopefully there are no capacitors fitted.

 

How do I know this? Fitting dcc sound to Carlisle and a number of other layout locomotives.

 

One very nice loco just had hissy  fits until I spotted the odd touch of varnish on both part of the wheel treads and backs. These were Ultrascale wheels. Once cleaned up dcc wise it was very nice.

 

DC ..people will work around shorts..even when they know it has a short they just forget about it until I am asked to fit sound to it.

 

I use a sprog to set up the dcc chips. New chips have the "chuff" already in sync if you buy the correct chip. This allows me to programme acceleration, deceleration, sound levels, chuff spacings etc. I then store it all. Which means when someone else tries fiddling with the dcc I can reset it all back to working levels in about 5 minutes (depends on the sped of computer you use)

 

Mashimas work with dcc..not sure who told you they didn't ...even Ks Mk2s have been dcc'd.

The big concern I have is when people use a dc controller which has a less than dc output. (It means portescap motors 'sing' and dcc chips don't work at all well.)

 

Mike Edge has fitted dcc chips into locos with a large variety of motors..including some from China with very interesting gearboxes attached. They all seem to work fine with dcc.

 

Baz

 

[bbishop]

3 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

 

I’ve said this before, but for a roundy roundy layout with 100s of kit built locos (I.e. LB), DC is the only sensible choice, whereas for a newly built terminus layout with lots of shunting and RTR locos, then DCC is the obvious choice.

 

Andy

 

So with a German Spur Null layout (and a second under construction) I'm an enthusiast for DCC.

 

But I also operate on Southwark Bridge, an LSWR terminus in P4.  The down driver sits about 20 feet from the platform starting signals but has a repeater panel advising him there is a train to drive.  He has a copy of the timetable, so knows which platform the train is in, and he is an LSWR enthusiast and tell an M7 apart from a T1.  But which M7? Because there are 10 of the little blighters on the layout.  Definitely an agreement for an analogue layout!

 

So it is "horses for courses".  I think Tony's moan is that those of us who use DCC should at the very least be able to fit a chip or wire a layout.

 

Bill

[Barry Ten]

Here's an update on my Schools project, for those that are interested.

 

 

It got to about this state last summer, and then (as mentioned) I managed to drop it about five feet onto a wooden floor. Actually what happened was that the Schools chose to derail on the one part of the layout (about a foot's worth) that wasn't protected against such accidents - a lesson learned! The damage was confined to the body, as the tender remained on the layout and the chassis came away mercifully unscathed. However, the cab was wrecked. The spectacle plate had shattered between the two forward windows, and the side-sheet on this side of the engine had snapped in two, with a clean break right through the numbering. The drag plate was also badly damaged, as were the footsteps. The other side plate, and the roof, had separated without too much damage. I didn't manage to find all the parts, so some plastic card had to be carefully spliced in and blended in places.

 

The whole lot was reassembled/repaired, and since I was about it I decided to remake the vertical handrails in brass, rather than the original plastic, which I think was an improvement. After that, it was a lot of repainting and re-lining/re-numbering, some of which is still in progress. However, at least she's back together now, and I'm moving forward again. Still to be done: wheel balance weights and glazing, among other details, and a decision about which colour to leave the smoke deflectors.

 

Al

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Barry Ten

[Chamby]

32 minutes ago, bbishop said:

..... But which M7? Because there are 10 of the little blighters on the layout.  Definitely an agreement for an analogue layout!

 

So it is "horses for courses".  I think Tony's moan is that those of us who use DCC should at the very least be able to fit a chip or wire a layout.

 

Bill

 

Which is why I use the loco’s running number as the chip address, as do many people.  Many of my loco’s are renumbered, so each has the last two digits unique among my fleet.  And if you have working lamps, a quick press of the zero button, and the active loco will ‘wink’ at you.  Or with sound, a toot of the whistle also works.

 

Like most things, competence in dcc operation and installation grows with familiarity.  Just because you haven’t yet reached a position of competency, doesn’t mean it’s a load of tosh.  It’s no different from loco building in that regard!

 

Phil

[grahame]

14 hours ago, grahame said:

. . . . . The buildings aren't exact replicas but the modern looking one was formerly 'Roberts and Leete Printers' (who produced many notable WW1 posters) and then became David Lloyd Pigott and Co (an important tea and coffee merchants for over 200 years) and can often be seen behind period photos of trains. . . . 

 

 

Ooops, suddenly realised I got that wrong. The printing company were next door in this building - another unfinished model. I must get around to completing them and the close up photography is very cruel but they are N/2mm and at least are representative of actual structures and not RTP or generic Metcalfe kits:

 

 

It has now been converted in to apartments and is called 'Printworks House'.  'Roberts and Leete Printers' produced many famous posters some of which can be seen on this website: http://epsomandewellhistoryexplorer.org.uk/RobertsLeete.html 

 

G

 

[St Enodoc]

On 24/04/2019 at 00:24, Tony Wright said:

Even by your own high standards, Tony, that photo is absolutely outstanding.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

20 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Phil,

 

For me there are too many 'buttons' everywhere. Especially in my car. 

 

I cannot tune the radio, and, on returning from York on Monday, I inadvertently turned on the CD player. My car is second-hand, and the original owner had left a CD in the machine. His taste in music was abominable - some sort of rap, I think it's called. Now, I can't get back to the radio! 

 

Why are modern things so complicated? No doubt it won't be long before all electronic gadgets are sold with a free grandchild!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I didn't realise you'd bought your car from Morty...

[Clive Mortimore]

29 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I didn't realise you'd bought your car from Morty...

Oi Sainty

 

Once you have listened to Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five singing "Jump the Pump" and "White Lines" you need never to listen another rap song. I am not a fan of rap music. I found some nice Nepalese punk rock the other day, more my taste. 

[grahame]

6 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Once you have listened to Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five singing "Jump the Pump" and "White Lines" you need never to listen another rap song.

 

I'll be visiting where the world's first ever rapper was imprisoned this weekend  - Jacques de Molay at Gisors. He was the Grandmaster of the Knights Templar - a veritable rap group who could 'beat' out a good crusading song.

 

G

[Bucoops]

5 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Oi Sainty

 

Once you have listened to Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five singing "Jump the Pump" and "White Lines" you need never to listen another rap song. I am not a fan of rap music. I found some nice Nepalese punk rock the other day, more my taste. 

 

I was 6 when white lines came out (1984). I thought it was a great song! It was only 10+ years later when I heard it again and actually listened to the lyrics with some comprehension. I was a bit shocked at the subject matter

[St Enodoc]

32 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Oi Sainty

 

Once you have listened to Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five singing "Jump the Pump" and "White Lines" you need never to listen another rap song. I am not a fan of rap music. I found some nice Nepalese punk rock the other day, more my taste. 

Count me in.

[polybear]

3 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Oi Sainty

 

Once you have listened to Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five singing "Jump the Pump" and "White Lines" you need never to listen another rap song. I am not a fan of rap music. I found some nice Nepalese punk rock the other day, more my taste. 

 

Rap?  Three-quarters of the way to Crap...

Nuff sed.

Sorry Tony, I should've said "Enough said".... 

[Tony Wright]

13 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

Here's an update on my Schools project, for those that are interested.

 

 

It got to about this state last summer, and then (as mentioned) I managed to drop it about five feet onto a wooden floor. Actually what happened was that the Schools chose to derail on the one part of the layout (about a foot's worth) that wasn't protected against such accidents - a lesson learned! The damage was confined to the body, as the tender remained on the layout and the chassis came away mercifully unscathed. However, the cab was wrecked. The spectacle plate had shattered between the two forward windows, and the side-sheet on this side of the layout had snapped in two, with a clean break right through the numbering. The drag plate was also badly damaged, as were the footsteps. The other side plate, and the roof, had separated without too much damage. I didn't manage to find all the parts, so some plastic card had to be carefully spliced in and blended in places.

 

The whole lot was reassembled/repaired, and since I was about it I decided to remake the vertical handrails in brass, rather than the original plastic, which I think was an improvement. After that, it was a lot of repainting and re-lining/re-numbering, some of which is still in progress. However, at least she's back together now, and I'm moving forward again. Still to be done: wheel balance weights and glazing, among other details, and a decision about which colour to leave the smoke deflectors.

 

Al

 

 

 

That's looking great, Al,

 

Thanks for posting - entirely the type of subject matter which this thread is all about. 

 

I'm really delighted that you finished (and repaired!) it because all the bits once belonged to a dear, late friend of mine, Les Spratt - a true Man of Kent. He'd have been delighted it's gone to a good home and been completed.

 

Your DoG, by the way, is ready in the stock box. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.