Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

18 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Dear Mr Wright

 

You seem to be in need of some of the following.

 

 

 

Thanks Clive,

 

But do you really think I'm going to ruin my layout putting any of that ugly stuff on it?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Andy Hayter]

35 minutes ago, drmditch said:

And again but written in Cyrillic please...….

That would be showing off wouldn't it?

I have enough trouble with German and French characters on this QWERTY keyboard without seeking out Cyrillic ones.  Anyway it's an easy look up on Google translate.

[grahame]

1 hour ago, Clearwater said:

 

Its quite disconcerting seeing something quite so modern on LB. 

 

 

Refreshing, I'd say.

 

27 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

But do you really think I'm going to ruin my layout putting any of that ugly stuff on it?

 

 

Left off for historical accuracy maybe, but otherwise it's the eye of the beholder. After all you did infest LB with ugly signal/point rodding rather than neater and more efficient point motors and CLS.

 

G

[Coach bogie]

4 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

The Kitmaster boiler measures 22.6mm at its widest point, and 20.6 mm at the narrowest, which corresponds to a shade over 5.6" tapering down to a shade over 5". That's not far off the stated dimensions for a no.4 boiler, as listed here:

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/no440s.html

 

What I don't know is whether those figures are the visible outside diameter, making allowance for cladding, or the internal dimensions of the boiler without cladding. Whatever the case, I'll have to live with any discrepancy and trust that the essential character of the loco still comes through.

I am not sure myself now, but I assumed dimensions were without cladding. From the table listed, the Bulldog boiler is 5ft tapering down to 4ft 5". 20mm to just under 18mm.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Clive,

 

But do you really think I'm going to ruin my layout putting any of that ugly stuff on it?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Now Tony that is not the attitude.

 

The real railway did. In fact just down the road to you is a feed station which I have never seen modelled correctly.

[DougN]

 

Looks like the closure and demolition notice has now been issued to Tony! 

[Michael Edge]

6 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

I am not sure myself now, but I assumed dimensions were without cladding. From the table listed, the Bulldog boiler is 5ft tapering down to 4ft 5". 20mm to just under 18mm.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Boiler dimensions are just that, the boiler itself which we don't see or model. What we see is the cladding and there's usually 2-3 inches of insulation underneath so these dimensions can only ever be a rough guide.

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, grahame said:

 

Refreshing, I'd say.

 

 

Left off for historical accuracy maybe, but otherwise it's the eye of the beholder. After all you did infest LB with ugly signal/point rodding rather than neater and more efficient point motors and CLS.

 

G

Eye of the beholder, Grahame?

 

Though these two pictures have appeared before, I hope they can be used to illustrate my point of view.

 

 

Little Bytham, in the summer of 1956. 60120 KITTIWAKE has charge of the Up 'Tees-Tyne Pullman' (an unusual loco on the job - not the class, but because it's a West Riding-allocated A1 rather than a Tyneside- or London-based 8P). 

 

Fascinating, interesting, full of extraordinary detail and the whole scene just crying out to be modelled. I was almost ten years old at the time this picture was taken.  I don't think anything in this view is 'ugly'. I think it's fantastic!

 

Spring forward just over 53 years!

 

 

The loco and its train are still of great interest to me, but as for the rest of this scene. The beautiful goods shed lies in rubble in this November 2009 shot, ghastly (looking) overhead catenary 'infests' the scene, Mother Nature is rampant all around the formation and, from my point of view, the scene is desolate. I was 63 when I took this picture.

 

Now, a question, please? We all have our personal likes and dislikes (and this piece is naturally 'tongue-in-cheek'), but when I mentioned to my mates what I was going to build (with their help, of course) 13 years ago, all jumped at the chance. Would they have done so if I'd said I was going to model LB as it is (was, because there are now new houses to the right)? Or, put another way, how many layouts are there being built right now representing the ECML today? I don't know, but I can't think of any. 

 

Just think, what have we have had modelled representing the steam-age past (which I've photographed)? Kings Cross (three that I know of), Belle Isle, Welwyn North, Hitchin (two), Huntingdon North, Peterborough North (two), Greatford, Little Bytham, Stoke Summit, High Dyke, Grantham, Gamston, Retford, Bawtry - and that's just the ex-GNR (there are several more north of Doncaster). I've probably left some out as well!

 

I think there are far more eyes beholding the steam-age railway in model form....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[grahame]

IMO the second pic is more preferable - it's clearer, sharper, cleaner and in colour. The first seems messy and fussy from an aesthetic view although it does provide some extra interest, but whether that is ugly or attractive is debateable. Unfortunately both are somewhat obscured by smoke.

 

G

[Chamby]

You have to admire the modern ECML for it’s relative efficiency, though.   Electric powered trains swooshing effortlessly between the nation’s great cities.  Nobody needs to stop at places like LB any more, you’ve all got your own vehicles now.

 

If you’re looking to get from A to B efficiently, the modern railway wins hands down.  If you’re looking for character and interest, the old permanent way is best.  In model form, we tend to focus on one small part of a much larger system, so overly dwell on a microcosm of local character and detailed interest.

 

Dont forget that for every 1000 yards that was somewhere like LB, even ‘back in the day’ there would be several miles running through open countryside.  People don’t tend to model that, either!

 

Phil

[Lecorbusier]

58 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Now, a question, please? We all have our personal likes and dislikes (and this piece is naturally 'tongue-in-cheek'), but when I mentioned to my mates what I was going to build (with their help, of course) 13 years ago, all jumped at the chance. Would they have done so if I'd said I was going to model LB as it is (was, because there are now new houses to the right)? Or, put another way, how many layouts are there being built right now representing the ECML today? I don't know, but I can't think of any.

 

Whilst I share your tastes over the modern railway .... I suggest you are comparing apples with oranges here.

 

Firstly I think you need to compare a desirable subject for modelling the contempoary scene with Little B .... the current little B I suggest is not that.

 

Secondly, if we are talking about historic modelling .... ie 20th Century .... you perhaps should be comparing the popularity of modelling 1970s - 1990s so memories and a sense of nostalgia (not to mention a more balanced perspective) have had time to form.

 

Just a thought.

 

Personally, I fully agree with your preference regarding the two photos though.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Eye of the beholder, Grahame?

 

Though these two pictures have appeared before, I hope they can be used to illustrate my point of view.

 

 

Little Bytham, in the summer of 1956. 60120 KITTIWAKE has charge of the Up 'Tees-Tyne Pullman' (an unusual loco on the job - not the class, but because it's a West Riding-allocated A1 rather than a Tyneside- or London-based 8P). 

 

Fascinating, interesting, full of extraordinary detail and the whole scene just crying out to be modelled. I was almost ten years old at the time this picture was taken.  I don't think anything in this view is 'ugly'. I think it's fantastic!

 

Spring forward just over 53 years!

 

 

The loco and its train are still of great interest to me, but as for the rest of this scene. The beautiful goods shed lies in rubble in this November 2009 shot, ghastly (looking) overhead catenary 'infests' the scene, Mother Nature is rampant all around the formation and, from my point of view, the scene is desolate. I was 63 when I took this picture.

 

Now, a question, please? We all have our personal likes and dislikes (and this piece is naturally 'tongue-in-cheek'), but when I mentioned to my mates what I was going to build (with their help, of course) 13 years ago, all jumped at the chance. Would they have done so if I'd said I was going to model LB as it is (was, because there are now new houses to the right)? Or, put another way, how many layouts are there being built right now representing the ECML today? I don't know, but I can't think of any. 

 

Just think, what have we have had modelled representing the steam-age past (which I've photographed)? Kings Cross (three that I know of), Belle Isle, Welwyn North, Hitchin (two), Huntingdon North, Peterborough North (two), Greatford, Little Bytham, Stoke Summit, High Dyke, Grantham, Gamston, Retford, Bawtry - and that's just the ex-GNR (there are several more north of Doncaster). I've probably left some out as well!

 

I think there are far more eyes beholding the steam-age railway in model form....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Oh dear the muck coming out the steam locos funnel is hiding the mast for the power feed station.

 

To add to the list of ECML station models, Well Cooked Dave's Sandy.

 

Serious head on, we all have our own likes and dislikes regarding model railways and there is room in the hobby for everyone, including those who like today's railways.

[APOLLO]

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Bachmann's latest Class 90 on test on LB.

 

Who needs digital sound.

 

It's a pity I couldn't link the real train noise with the running of this one.

 

 

Put Mo's vacuum cleaner under the layout and switch it on ----- !!

 

Brit15

[APOLLO]

In OO I model "The era that is rarely modelled" - 1965 -1968 - last days of steam, early blue diesels and a right mix of stock, 4 wheel non braked through to brand new 100 Ton tank wagons (9F hauled - yes it happened, I have a photo !!).

 

Again another Deltic & water crane - D9005 with an LNER one at Newcastle this time.  Lots of steam infrastructure, semaphore signals, complex track etc etc lasted well into the 70's - slowly disappearing over time. For me the rot really set in with the demise of Speedlink. Late 80's ?

 

 

Brit15

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, Chamby said:

You have to admire the modern ECML for it’s relative efficiency, though.   Electric powered trains swooshing effortlessly between the nation’s great cities.  Nobody needs to stop at places like LB any more, you’ve all got your own vehicles now.

 

If you’re looking to get from A to B efficiently, the modern railway wins hands down.  If you’re looking for character and interest, the old permanent way is best.  In model form, we tend to focus on one small part of a much larger system, so overly dwell on a microcosm of local character and detailed interest.

 

Dont forget that for every 1000 yards that was somewhere like LB, even ‘back in the day’ there would be several miles running through open countryside.  People don’t tend to model that, either!

 

Phil

I do admire the modern railway, Phil,

 

However, it doesn't interest me. It's a means to an end (a very rapid means on the ECML) but the reason for making a journey now is much more important than the journey itself (I imagine it is to most folk). I'd better explain.

 

In my youth, as a trainspotter, I'd travel by train to destinations within a day's return to/from Chester. Many were not fast. Let's take an example, if I may? Chester Northgate to Manchester Central. The D11s had just been replaced by DMUs, but no matter - they gave a clearer view, especially if one were sitting behind the driver. On departure, look at all those lovely CLC lower quadrant signals, then, as we cross the line from the General to Birkenhead a glimpse to the left might see an ex-GWR 2-8-0 heading a goods, and a glimpse to the right will reveal what's on Chester's Western depot. Sit down and watch the scenery, but not for long for Mouldsworth is approaching. There always seemed to be something coming of the West Cheshire link to Helsby; on this day an unrebuilt 'Patriot' on a freight. Crossing the WCML near Hartford, perhaps a 'Semi' might be going underneath - who knows? On to Northwich, with the shed on the right. What a selection of various classes to delight the eye, and those wonderful ICI chemical trains. At Altrincham, we'd be under the wires, but what wonderfully-arcane electric units would we see. Then through the SW Manchester suburbs, with loads of sidings full of trains, and into Central. What's there? A 'Jubilee', perhaps, heading for St. Pancras, or a 'Royal Scot'? Or umpteen 2-6-4Ts on suburban work? And so on. 

 

Of course, though the link to the CLC is intact at Mickle Trafford, travelling from Altrincham to Manchester is now done by tram. Anything CLC/GC at Chester has long been demolished. 

 

Nostalgia? Perhaps, but I bet no trainspotters travel today 'twixt Chester and Manchester. Or between Chester and Birkenhead where, in my day, a Stanier, Fowler or Fairburn 2-6-4T would give us an express run, with just one stop at Hooton. Today, it's Mersey Rail three-rail electric units. 

 

As for 'several miles running through open countryside' and folk not modelling it, WMRC did - with Stoke Summit (well, not miles). But who'd model that scene today? No semaphores, no 'box and just a procession of 'uniform' (if very efficient) trains.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited May 23, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Tony Wright]

Anyway, back to 'modelling'.

 

A short-evening's work yesterday produced this.

 

 

Bachmann's latest maroon 'Porthole' BTK, now ready for service on LB. Chuck away the tension-locks, make my own couplings and weather the underframe, bogies and roof. Job done! As a layout coach?

 

Though my preference will always be to try and 'make things', why not exploit something like this? Anyone who can't do what I've just done with this must be a very rare bird in this hobby. 

 

 

Now, already in service on a typical Nottingham-Kings Lynn turn. There's another 'Porthole' Composite behind. I considered such 'modern' stock would be unusual on the M&GNR, but a glance at a couple of books showed examples - Mk.1s as well!

 

The loco (altered Bachmann) came from my dear late friend, Dave Shakespeare.  

[Buhar]

For me semaphore signals were part of the excitement. Moving to off meant something was coming. Now you can't tell, they're normally green, even on the busy WCML and even when there's an engineering possession.  All you can say is that red means nothing's coming.

 

If you were near a box you got the bells to add further, or the sound of rodding or wires or the signal itself. 

 

That said, I always look, if only a cursory grace, at any passing train.

 

Alan 

Edited May 23, 2019 by Buhar
Spelling

[APOLLO]

Knutsford station - 1 May 1967. Mum & dad went to see the Knutsford May Queen parade, I went to watch another parade !!!.  Note again the water crane and CLC lower quadrant semaphore signal. DMU passes a Northwich to Tunstead ICI hopper train - Class 25 hauled by then.

 

 

Brush 4 light engine - closer view of the signal box etc.

 

 

Loaded ICI hoppers to Northwich.

 

 

A nice afternoon - though no steam. Our railways were much more interesting back then.

 

Brit15

[woodenhead]

59 minutes ago, Buhar said:

For me semaphore signals were part of the excitement. Moving to off meant something was coming. Now you can't tell, they're normally green, even on the busy WCML and even when there's an engineering possession.  All you can say is that red means nothing's coming.

 

If you were near a box you got the bells to add further, or the sound of rodding or wires or the signal itself. 

 

That said, I always look, if only a cursory grace, at any passing train.

 

Alan 

Real Time trains is your friend here, you know to the minute what is coming.  As a casual observer now this is great, but in my olden golden trainspotting days not always knowing what is coming added to the fun.

[Lecorbusier]

30 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

 

A nice afternoon - though no steam. Our railways were much more interesting back then.

 

Brit15

 

Doesn't it depend to some extent on what you choose to Model? If I were modelling the contemporary scene I would look for something interesting I think....

 

 

Just chose this as I am interested in the work of Calatrava .... there are a fair few others.

[ecgtheow]

Lecorbusier was of course Swiss before he took French nationality aged about 42, but is the "Lecorbusier" on this forum Swiss or live here like me?

[johndon]

Another diesel and a water crane.  In this instance an NER example, still standing in March 1984 at the site of what was Consett station.  Photo courtesy of Stephen McGahon.

 

[Lecorbusier]

8 minutes ago, ecgtheow said:

Lecorbusier was of course Swiss before he took French nationality aged about 42, but is the "Lecorbusier" on this forum Swiss or live here like me?

No ... English and resident in London. Just happens to be the name I chose when setting up the account - though I am interested in his work. As I am interested in the Midland circa 1903 I make the tenuous link with his designs at Le Chaux dur Fonds and the naming of Matlock Bath as 'little Switzerland'! So we get...

 

Not at all what you normally associate with Le Corbusier

 

[Barry Ten]

I find the contemporary British scene quite dull ... but then I was never all that interested in BR blue when it was around. I missed sectorisation and early privatisation due to living abroad.

 

Stick me on a German, Swiss, or French station for an hour or two, and I'm happy as can be. Lots more freight, lots more loco-hauled trains, and interesting-looking electrics still working hard. I know that's a generalisation but it reflects my experiences. I'd happily model the contemporary European scene.

[t-b-g]

I think that we all have our preferences and favourites.

 

I don't have any problem with anybody expressing a preference or even saying that they are not keen or interested in something.

 

It only bothers me when somebody expresses opinion as fact.

 

"I find modern railways dull and boring therefore that is what they are."

 

A friend of mine is certain that there are only two sorts of music. The stuff he likes and rubbish.

 

I have never seen a modern station, anywhere in the world, that pleases my eyes as much as many a traditional one. I used to like the idea that you could tell where you were by the railway infrastructure without a train in sight. Any number of curvy concrete arches can't recreate that feeling.

 

I am quite happy to accept that other people like that sort of thing and would never dismiss it as being poor or bad just because I don't find it attractive.